“Lindows OS – Is this OS the second coming or just another Linux distribution that will fall by the wayside. Since Lindows.com has released its Insiders from the initial Non Disclosure Agreement which was a confidentiality agreement that prevented us from discussing the OS anywhere outside of the Insiders Forum I am now able to give some insight to this mysterious OS.” Review is at HiTechMods.
Lindows Operating System Review at HiTechMods
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Wow – someone wasn’t impressed with Lindows. Same as most reviews I’ve read.
I don’t know what was going through their heads in management over at Lindows (other than dollar signs). They seemed to think adding full Windows application support was a no-brainer and now it looks like they’re back-pedalling away from that as quickly as they can.
I’ve been reviewing Linux distros for work and I think I’ll pass up on even looking at Lindows. What a mess.
It seems that they have some decent development going there but what they do is still laughable. They seem to be die-hard Microsoft fans, because they copy their behaviour (look at the Eula screen at installation! lol), their OS (C: as home folder! I’m sure that’s great for usability
) and basically everything else (including name). I constantly ask myself “is this OS just a good joke or for real?”. Too bad. This won’t get them nowhere.
“They seemed to think adding full Windows application support was a no-brainer and now it looks like they’re back-pedalling away from that as quickly as they can.”
My question is this… What made the Lindows people think that they would be able to accomplish what many many programmers have been trying to accomplish with WINE for around 10 years and have been unable to do?
ASFAIK, the only two products that have ever successfully been able to do this were OS/2 with 16 bit Windows applications, and Soft Windows for Macintosh. And both of these products were successfule because they had actual API licenses from Microsoft and were using the real Windows API.
There are two primary reasons why Lindows and WINE will never achieve the goal of good Windows compatibility:
#1: Without having the actual API source code, this is mostly guess work. And they have to be EXTREMELY careful about reverse engineering the APIs anyway because that violates the Microsoft EULA and would get them sued.
#2: Microsoft changes the APIs faster than the weather changes. So as soon as they figure out, Microsoft has changed it so it breaks.
Windows compatibility is a dead horse for Linux. And continuing to pursue this goal is bad for Linux as it discourages developers from porting native Linux versions of their applications. Instead they just say “Well, we will just wait around and they can run the Windows version as soon as the compatibility works better.”
quote
I don’t know how many readers of this review noticed in the installation screen shots that you don’t have the ability to select partitions or enter users. Lindows will only load on partition1 of the first hard disk and everything is run as root.
end quote
Why is that? I have four operating systems installed in my hard disk, the idea of installing an OS that takes over like that, terrifies me, even for a single partition. MS-Windows asks now.
And BeOS is monouser but you can select partitions. I don’t understand why would they want to ‘amputate’ either of both functionalities in Lindows.
I’m beginning to doubt if the above statement is accurate about not being able to select any partition. I guess that in any case they warn you about taking over the first partition. Maybe they thought less choice would be easier for my ‘uncle’, and now what they have is extremely DANGEROUS, specially for my ‘uncle’.
At last, a full review of Lindows! I bought a Microtel PC with Lindows installed with the intent of using it as Joe User would, the kind of person who would see an inexpensive PC at the Walmart site and go for it. So, of course, I had no installation problems and it uses the entire hard drive – I have no Windows partitions. So far, doing things as Joe User would do them, I’ve had no problems, nothing that would put me dead in the water.
After getting familar with the OS and using the sparse amount of Linux software that comes installed, I’ve had no problems using Click ‘n Run. I’ve downloaded a lot of stuff, the major things being applications like OpenOffice and Mozilla. Everything has worked fine in the two weeks I’ve been using it (and again, I try to use it as Joe User would). The support issue seems to be the same as with Lycoris – it is the community forums that provide the only real support. I’ve been in there looking, but have not had to go there to actually find a solution to a problem. Lindows has quie a ways to go but, I have to admit, so far my Joe User experience has been trouble free.
My set up is this: i got yhe 1.4 Athalon version with 40 GB hard drive. I bought the 17″ monitor that is paired up with it at the Walmart site (no problem with monitor settings, thankfully – Joe User would be totally stumped on that). It came with 256 MB DRR Ram (and I added 512 MB more, also through Wlamart, but did that on my own – Joe User doesn’t eally need more than 256 MB). I have a basic Joe User type set up – use both Konqueror and Mozilla, KMail, KWord and OpenOffice, CD Player, have KOrganizer set up, etc. Adding my HP 970 inkjet was a snap.
After awhile, I plan to try and add an external CD burner and scanner, as Joe User might do , after getting more familiar with using Linux/Lindows. The Microtel PC is an inexpensive, almost white box sort of computer. LOL, they provide a manual that is strictly technical – motherboard specs, etc. Joe User needs a basic manual, not that. But, it has been a good PC so far. Adding the RAM was a snap, the lightweight speakers work fine (for their level of quality), the fan is loud, but not an unpleasant “noise” that is distracting (like a whining hard drive is). So again, I have to admit, so far, so good. Real support and manuals are needed. My CPU cost $499, the monitor $130 and I got the $99 Click ‘n Run. So, the whole set up has cost me about $730.00 (I’m not counting the extra RAM – as I said, that’s something I got for my own purposes – especially if Lindows doesn’t end up on there for a very long
).
What the point of running Linux if your going to load crapy MS software on top of it. Just doesn’t make much sense to me. You?
m, they are looking only at Joe User. Joe User doesn’t know anything about partitions, doesn’t want to now about them. He/she just wants a system where they can have email, surf the web, do word processing, play CD’s, perhaps burn CD’s. Personally, having a Microtel/Lindows system, I think they should completely dump the “running MS apps” thing and focus on making it a Linux desktop, get it all polished up and completely ready for the average or entry level user.
This doesn’t sound like Linux for Joe user, it sounds like Linux for the brain dead. I’m not sure why anyone who might use (or should I say fall for) Lindows wouldn’t just be better off sticking with Windows. This “distro” always installs on the first partition, runs everything as root, and costs $99 for what sounds infinitely inferior to real free software.
If you want a “broadband OS”, try Debian. I’m probably not “Joe User”, but I’m also not a computer professional of any sort, and frankly I had virtually no trouble installing Woody on a new machine three weeks ago (in all fairness, it was the third time I’ve installed Debian, but the first two went almost as smoothly). The installation program is just a fairly straightforward set of text-based menus. The only choice that was less than obvious was knowing that the “CNet Pro” NIC that came with the box required the Davicom 92xxx driver. I didn’t have to do any manual configuration of X or do anything to set up DHCP over my cable modem – it “just worked”. I have a rock stable system and access to a vast variety of free software simply by typing “apt-get install …” It doesn’t seem to me that the reputation of Debian as a difficult distro is justified.
A quick search through ibuyernet.com:
A quick search through ibuyernet.com:
AMD ATHLON 1.4GHZ SOCKET A 266MHZ PROCESSOR
$83
256 MB PC2100 DDR CAS 2.5 SDRAM
$39
ABIT ATX SKT A AMD761/VIA 686B 4X PC1600/PC2100 DDR DRAM 1 AGP 6 PCI RAID motherboard
$62
SMART ONE 56K PCI V90 – 56VW-PCI modem
$30
CD-ROM DRIVE 52X CREATIVE LABS BLASTER ATAPI
$19
SONY FLOPPY DRIVE 3.5IN
$7
KDS VS70 17IN 16.0VIS .27MM 1280X1024 monitor
$110
ENLIGHT CHASSIS ATX MID 250W P/S 4 5.25 3 3.5 1XFAN AMD
$40
IBM DESKSTAR 60GXP 40GB HD 7200RPM ATA/100 3.5LP – 07N6654
$64
Shipping&Handling
$120?
_________________
TOTAL $574
If you don’t know how to assemble it, they can do that for you for about $30-40, add Mandrake Linux, get the CD with any magazine and get more apps than Lindows seem to give. Do not go for Debian unless you want rock stable madness (;p).
Adding $40 for assembly and $10 for the magazine you get the whole deal for about $630. $100 less than the Lindows one, and I put a 7200RPM IBM hard disk there (check out which is yours, probably 5400 RPM, brand unknown). The mobo form factor is ATX > more PCI slots (the walmart deals under $699 are all uATX).
There you have something for an EPSON scanner supported by Linux. Hey, congrats for your new computer, my Athlon is 100Hz slower
. Just wanted to show that for a cheap deal the Lindows one can be easily won.
The only crowd I could see really wanting windows compatabillity are the gamers! unless you are going to convince Blizzard Entertainment to port Starcraft(BW),Warcraft(3), and diablo(2); or Westwood Studios to port their Command and Conquer series…. I doubt you will even get the Army to port their Americas Army Operations game to Linux… they even use Windows servers!!…… either that or get a big gameing company of your own to make “Linux ONLY Games”(that are good). but before you do that get a linux distro that succeeds at makeing a “desktop Linux” nothing ive tried cuts it; Mandrake sucks, Lycoris has issues, SuSE is pretty good.
Tha Point>so bassically all you(linux users/developers) need is the ease of windows, games of windows, and the security/stability of linux all in one.<get that and advertise it and you could get a pretty large user base I am sure.(I would be one to cross over)
“What the point of running Linux if your going to load crapy MS software on top of it. Just doesn’t make much sense to me. You?”
Right now, the point is that “crappy” MS software is better than no software at all. And that is the problem that Linux currently has.
For example, there is nothing equivalent to MS Access available for Linux.
But not all Windows software is “crappy MS software” anyway. What about PhotoShop? What about Illustrator? What about SAS and SPSS?
But like I said, simply getting Linux to run Windows apps is not a solution.
SAS run on a VARIETY of systems. From SGI to Solaris to Windows. As for SPSS… I could have sworn that I have it running on a sun box somewhere….cant confirm that though.
LOL, don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending Lindows – it has a long, long way to go if it’s going to keep its head above water and be a good product.
But, people have to understand, there are so many people out there who have still never had a computer, it’s unbelievable. About ten days ago, my wife and I went up to where one of her sister’s lives – they had just gotten their first computer, a typical Windows XP Home Edition GateWay box. When I had put it together (which they could have done – everything’s color coded, etc.) and turned it on, they sat there staring at the XP desktop with totally blank looks on their faces. I knew then it would be a long day <g>. But, this is not unusual at all, this total and utter disorientation to new users, even with Mac and Windows. The Walmart Lindows deal – that’s who they’re trying to get, is those people. But, to do that, they have to do some things. The least they could do is have one of those of big fold out diagrams that shows you which plugs go into what ports and a little manual that explains the basics and explains how Click ‘n Run works. That is the real problem with both Lindows and Lycoris right now. Their whole thrust is to get new, entry level users, but they lack the very things that would help them the most – easy to understand documentation and direct support. That is what I cannot understand.
The Lindows team deserve more respect than what
most of you are expressing. It’s actually
quite a feat to get as far as they have. Managing
to run Explorer++ on top of Linux is nothing less than impressive. If you’re out to break the MS hegemony,
gall is not the way to go. Public ranting about missing features in Lindows only contributes to hurting Lindows.
Doing so you are strengthening the MS foothold. So
what if Lindows is immature and not up to par with
what one could desire. It deserves support. As penance
for your comments you should all run out and buy a Lindows box to support their effort.
I had IE running with WINE half a year ago.
…
“SAS run on a VARIETY of systems. From SGI to Solaris to Windows. As for SPSS… I could have sworn that I have it running on a sun box somewhere….cant confirm that though.”
SAS USED to run on a varity of systems. But they have dropped support for most platforms other than Windows. And AFAIK, there is not, and never has been a Linux version of SAS.
For example, there is nothing equivalent to MS Access available for Linux.
Actually, OpenOffice has excellent ODBC support and a very powerful query builder that’s quite similar to M$ Access. It also has a form designer front-end which you can use to create full on applications in very much the same vein as Access. Combine that with Star Basic, and you’re not far off from having a very nice Access alternative.
I use it at work, and it works very well. There’s a tutorial floating around on the net somewhere, but I’m too lazy to google it right now, but if you dig around, I’m certain you’ll find it.
“Actually, OpenOffice has excellent ODBC support and a very powerful query builder that’s quite similar to M$ Access.”
It’s not similar to Access. It requires you to learn how to administer and set up a full SQL database (such as MySQL or PostgreSQL). That’s not similar to Access. That’s not a system where someone who knows nothing about databases can create a basic database anyway using wizards and such.
It has a table creation wizard that doesn’t require you to know any SQL at all. In it’s look and feel, it’s quite simple: name the field and set it’s datatype. Granted, you do have to have an SQL server to connect to via ODBC, but if you work at a medium/large sized company with a DB admin, that detail falls on your DB admin and not the end-user.
Are you suggesting that we shouldn’t speak poorly of a poorly implemented product simply because they are trying really hard to fight Microsoft? Sounds like poor reasoning to me.
-G
Because it’s running aside Windows98, and Wine has the ability to use Windows DLLs, how much is running without Windows libraries?
“It has a table creation wizard that doesn’t require you to know any SQL at all. In it’s look and feel, it’s quite simple: name the field and set it’s datatype.”
It requires you to know how to create the initial DB, add and manage users, manage security permissions, grant access rights, etc. None of which Access requires. I’m talking about something the average SOHO user can easily work with here. Not something where a DBA will be handling most of the backend work.
Unless I am seriously mistaken, StarOffice 5.2 has StarBase which perfoms much like MS Access and is also able to access the same database (possibly more) that MS Access is able to utilize.
The only difference is that StarOffice 5.2 runs on more Operating Systems. There might be a few more features in MS Access, but I would rather write my own DB Interface that is portable then use something that ties me down to one platform with no true interoperatibility. (Ie. FULL SQL2 Compliance.)
“Unless I am seriously mistaken, StarOffice 5.2 has StarBase which perfoms much like MS Access and is also able to access the same database (possibly more) that MS Access is able to utilize.”
You are right. But StarBase doesn’t have anywhere near the functionality of Access because it is intentionally stripped down. It is basically a limited version of Adabase D. It only allows a certain number of records per table and so on. I think Adabase is manufactured by a German company. I’m not sure how much the full version costs.
BTW, I’m not even sure the limited version of Adabase D is available for Linux, or if it only exists for the Windows version. In the Linux version of StarOffice, StarBase might only be a front end for applications like MySQL and PostgreSQL. If that is the case, it still has the same problems I already pointed out.
“but I would rather write my own DB Interface that is portable then use something that ties me down to one platform with no true interoperatibility. (Ie. FULL SQL2 Compliance.)”
Wonderful .. so why don’t you write me one too ?
Being a Lindows “Insider”, I and all other “Insiders” just got an email from Michael Robertson. He announced the “Clicky Awards” You vote on your favorite applications in each catagory that you can download from the Click ‘n Run Warehouse. This is getting to be fun. It reminds me of when Apple got rolling with the Apple II and Commadore came out with the Pet, etc….you younger people, you wouldn’t believe the crazy things these giants like Microsoft and Apple used to do to try and drum up business. They were all flying by the seat of their pants and would do anything to get attention. This guy Robertson reminds me of all that.
Why the heck would somebody forces root on the user? The most they could do to ease the user confusion is to get them to password protect the root, and automatically getting them a normal account
Also, since they changed their product plans, I wonder, how would this differ from other Windows clones like Xandros and Lycoris, except for a 99 dollars service distributing half baked GPLed apps that claims to rival Office?
The Lindows team deserve more respect than what most of you are expressing. It’s actually quite a feat to get as far as they have. Managing to run Explorer++ on top of Linux is nothing less than impressive. If you’re out to break the MS hegemony, gall is not the way to go. Public ranting about missing features in Lindows only contributes to hurting Lindows.
1) Most Joe Users do NOT care about MS hegemony. If they do, they aren’t Joe Users, or probably family of AOL and Sun employees.
2) Notice that Lindows.com is pulling back claims to be able to run most Windows apps. And instead started pushing Click-n-Run (which is a more expensive Qt version for Red Carpet… Heck, Red Carpet has even more apps).
3) Internet Explorer was able to run on Wine for quite some time. IE 6.0 aren’t available for Wine, nor Lindows or WineX. From 5.0 onwards, it is illegal to run IE’s Windows version on OSes other than Windows.
Doing so you are strengthening the MS foothold. So what if Lindows is immature and not up to par with what one could desire. It deserves support. As penance for your comments you should all run out and buy a Lindows box to support their effort.
Well, they are certainly not out there to fish support. Firstly by not releasing the source code of applications under copyleft licenses. Secondly by ridiculing the very people who made the software they are using. Thirdly, most of their marketing stuff is to promote hate against MS and then to use Lindows, and not focusing on Lindows capablities (bad advertising).
This monster is not coming on my machine! I’ll wait for OBOS to get a real OS, not made by some moneydriven company but by the community.
I’ve been reviewing Linux distros for work and I think I’ll pass up on even looking at Lindows. What a mess.
I would recommend passing on Lindows for corporate use. Running as root constantly is dangerous and wouldn’t be a good idea.
Why is that? I have four operating systems installed in my hard disk, the idea of installing an OS that takes over like that, terrifies me, even for a single partition. MS-Windows asks now.
The truth is that Lindows developers were simply lazy. However, look at who their target audience is; Windows 9x/ME users. Windows behaves in very much the same way. You can create partitions, but Windows 9x/ME must reside on the first primary partition of the first hard drive. Since 9x users are who their are trying to intice, I guess they felt that creating different partitions was a functionality that 9x users wouldn’t know about and wouldn’t miss anyway, so to save time they left it out.
Do we have to continue this discussion further? I wish you would accurately say whay it is you’re trying to get across; that you don’t like Linux. Spreading inaccuracies just degrades you point.
Right now, the point is that “crappy” MS software is better than no software at all. And that is the problem that Linux currently has.
That is probably the most untrue thing you have said so far. You could try really hard to be more inaccurate, but you wouldn’t be successful.
There are thousands of applications for Linux and a large number of them are very good.
For example, there is nothing equivalent to MS Access available for Linux.
If you mean there aren’t any buggy databases that crash often, can’t handle foreign data or Unicode very well and can’t handle large amounts of data, then you may be correct. However, if you mean there are no database applications, you are again stating a falsehood.
There are many database programs for Linux. They range from the simple, such as Adabase, to the extensive, like MySQL, PostgreSQL, DB2, InterBase, Oracle, etc.
If you don’t like the programs available for Linux, say so. But don’t spread untruths like this to make your point; whatever it may be.
But not all Windows software is “crappy MS software” anyway. What about PhotoShop? What about Illustrator? What about SAS and SPSS?
Photoshop is good. Illustrator sucks.
We already discussed SAS and SPSS in another forum. As I pointed out to you when, it isn’t that there aren’t comparible, or even more powerful tools under Linux, it’s just that you don’t like them.
But like I said, simply getting Linux to run Windows apps is not a solution.
No kidding. I can run the entire MSOffice suite of tools under Linux, but when there are tools I prefer that are native and are not controlled by a company who it trying to take away my freedom of choice at every turn, and when these tools don’t crash often and are easier to navigate, then why on Earth would I wan’t to run Windows apps on any system?
It only allows a certain number of records per table and so on. I think Adabase is manufactured by a German company. I’m not sure how much the full version costs.
Access only allows a certain number of records per table too. The difference is that StarBase tells you when you’ve reached the limit, and Access just crashes.
It has a table creation wizard that doesn’t require you to know any SQL at all. In it’s look and feel…
I think Simba is just a troll when it comes to Linux related posts. If you look back at every Linux post he/she has made Simba claims that <insert whatever you’d like here> doesn’t exist for Linux. When proven wrong, Simba begins bitching that it doesn’t do this, that or whatnot.
I don’t mind Simba not liking Linux, but I wish he/she would at least be honest and upfront about it. Simply say, I don’t like <program> because I’m used to <MS product> and can’t find <MS product> or an exact duplicate under Linux.
Wonderful .. so why don’t you write me one too ?
If Robert isn’t interested, I’ll do it for you. What data do you want to track and what kind of reports do you want? I will even give you a 20% discount on the $120.00 per hour I normally charge for custom development work.
There is one more thing I wish to comment on regarding Lindows.
The submitter of the article, and several posts, have complained that Lindows technical support is lame.
I disagree whole heartedly that this is lame on Lindows part. I follow several mailing lists and user forums relating to Linux, Java, Zaurus, Python, Debian, BSD, etc. and I have never received anywhere near the same help and quality from a corporate technical support system as I have from other members of these various communities.
If the knowledge that you can call a tech support person and wait on hold for a few days, only have him tell you to raze your computer and then reinstall everything, gives you the warm fuzzies, then I guess you should complain. However, if solving your problems is the main result you are looking for, user forums are almost always the better way to go.
I agree that the idea of giving users root access is BAD. However, if anyone thinks LindowsOS is unique in that respect, think again.
Fire up a WinXP machine (Home or Pro) and you will find out that the default user has Administrator rights on the machine. As a matter of fact, that was a given in the Microshaft world until WinNT.
The idea behind the desktop is that it is YOURS, to do with as you please. You have control over it.
My opinion.
someone please tell me why this idiot is trying to run mozilla with wine, while he/she can easily just use the linux version of it. I mean, this program is probably even more native to linux that windows and this idiot has to try the WINDOWS version on an os that clearly has its own native version!
its small facts like these that removes credibility.
I strongly feel that the linux community isn’t looking at lindows from the right perspective. The authors are clearly gearing this software to consumers, therefore it will clearly not be just another linux dist. It will be a waste to any linux user who wants to use it for the common tasks, but for a consumer this might just be the alternative that they are looking for.
Another thing, everybody seems to be focussing on the ms compatability of lindows. This is a background feature, despite all the controversy surrounding this, it is simply there to help people get some of their favourite windows software working on linux – like some shareware program etc.
Despite all the cons to this os, lets not all forget: anything is better than windows.