KDE 3 was released only a few months ago, and it is, to date, the most successful version of the series, serving more than 50% of the Unix and Linux desktops, surpassing Gnome (~21%) and the rest of the gang. However, KDE is not perfect, and still not as comfortable as the Windows or as sexy as the MacOSX desktops. It lacks two things: integration with the underlying system and UI polishing. Today, I will mostly talk about the polishing part, as a lot has been already said elsewhere about the seemingly unsolvable integration issue (because of the modularity and completely independant/remote software projects.) Update: And as I was just publishing this article, KDE 3.1-Alpha was released. I hope that some of my recommendations will make it to the final version of KDE 3.1.
User Interface?
I served as a User Interface designer while I was working in a knowledge system project in UK and I worked as a web developer and web designer for the last 5-6 years. This article is merely a suggestion to the TrollTech and KDE developers on how to polish the current UI a bit. In some places, I might suggest quite significant changes, while in others, the changes would be trivial and as easy as pie, but still important. I hope that these developers will read my recommendations and we won’t fall prey to the popular “KDE developers do not care about the users” mentality that has headlined several news sites lately. This is just an article with some constructive critisism.
What is a good User Interface? Well, in order to answer that, we will have to take into account that different people like different shapes, colors and functionality. This article is just my personal opinion, how I would like KDE to evolve in the future. I am sure that other users would like to see other, different types of evolution. However, we can’t deny the fact that some basic rules of UI design should never be ignored. Aside of personal opinions and preferences, there are some basic UI rules. The problem is, KDE, by not being… perfect (who’s perfect anyway? :), does exhibit some problems in its UI.
This is a screenshot of my modified KDE 3.0.2 installation
Desktop Context Menu
Let’s start with the Desktop context menu dialog. In my opinion, this context menu is bloated with too many options in the root level, some unecessarily placed there, as they belong elsewhere. Example: The “Enable Desktop Menu” option, while it might be an important option for some (however, I never met anyone who actually uses that screen space sucker Desktop Menu), it is not an option that you will enable/disable all the time. It has no place in the main context menu. Its place is on the “Configure Desktop…” preference panel.
As for the “Configure Desktop…” itself, it should have been called “Desktop Properties” or “Desktop Settings”. “Configure” is a verb. Configure implies that the user knows how to “configure” something. Believe me, for a Unix newcomer, “configure” is a dreadful verb. It is a scary command. It might sound funny to you, but never underestimate the psychology of the user. UI is all about psychology. It is all about shapes, colors, pictures, words… Picking the right elements each time is the right way of creating a comfortable desktop environment.
Continuing with the context menu of the desktop, I would like to see the whole bunch of options from “Unclutter Windows” down to “Refresh Desktop” to go under a new submenu. Having these five options on the root of the menu, it just makes the whole panel too cluttered. These options are obviously related to Desktop actions, and they should be together under a new submenu.
What I would additionally like to have in the desktop context menu instead, are the following options:
1. Browse /home. As you can do with BeOS’ Tracker and the KDE’s “Quick Browser”, where by opening submenus, you can navigate to your ~/.
2. Browse /. Same as above, but allows you to navigate through the whole disk. This should only be available for the root user. In other words, put the “Quick Browser” on the desktop context menu.
3. Mount. Under its submenu, list the whole deal of partitions and devices that can be mounted and allow KDE to mount them on demand. Available
only for the root user or for the user with the right priviliages.
4. Add-Ons. This submenu, should be similar to Nautilus’ script folder and to BeOS’ Tracker Add-Ons. Some KPart add-ons (not necessarily stand-alone applications) will be able to do some great utility job. For example, select a few files and then pick these addons, addons like a GUI grep application, KRename, Burn to CD, Open Terminal (in current folder), Run Command (yes, this should be here and not on the root menu), email to, Compress, and whatever else you think it would fit as useful tool that can be applied to files and/or directories.
Additionally, I do not think that the “Help on the Desktop” is a good idea to be there at all times. It may be wise to leave the option there for the first week of using KDE, but then it should automatically removed from there, and only be accessible via the central Help docs.
The “Create New” submenu needs some polishing as well. Seperate the system entries from the entries created by third party applications with a menu seperator. For example, “Link to Application” is down the end of the menu, while it is something used quite regularly, and much more than the “CD/DVD-Rom Device” option which is more accessible from that menu, but it would only used pretty much, once every other moon.
Icon Context Menu
For the context menu when you are right clicking to desktop icon, I would suggest that as KDE’s got a special menu for the Trash icon, the same should be for any directory link on the desktop. For example, almost everyone’s got a “Home” folder link on the desktop. The deal would be to be able to “Browse” via the context menu in that directory, and wherever you click after that, to open a new window in Konqueror or Terminal on the directory you browsed to. Do the same for any other folder/device icon on the desktop. Allow to browse in it and then open it with Konqueror or Terminal if necessary.
Overall changes for the icons on the desktop:
1. “New Window” should be renamed to Open or Run.
2. Create a “Copy To” option that is able to navigate on your home folder and then copy the selected file(s) wherever you selected. Default navigation root for the user should be its Home directory, and / for the root user. Add the same option in the context menu for all files/directories/icons, on the Konqueror view as well, not just for the desktop.
3. Do the same as above, but this time for “Move to”.
4. “Edit File Type” should be part of the “Properties”, not stand alone. Properties panel needs almost complete redesign as well, but I won’t get into it this time.
5. “Open With…” should be a submenu and has listed the other optional applications (as found already in the system’s settings) that are able to open the selected file(s), and after using a seperator, then offer the option to open the panel to manually select which application you want to open your file. The way it is now done, it is too much time consumed for the user, while the whole functionality of this option and the alternative opening applications is already there, found on the “File Assosiations” Konqueror’s KPart!
6. The Add-Ons submenu with the useful utilities, should be available in this menu as well.
Kicker
Kicker is pretty powerful, but its default set-up is far from satisfying. There are, by default, 6-7 big icons on the left hand side, that auto-zoom in a pretty ugly way (zooming from 32 pixels to 48 pixels, without an intermediate “morphing”/transition that would help in the smoothness of the actual zooming). First thing I do after I get to a new KDE version, is turn that feature off. MacOSX has a similar zooming capability for its dock icons, but at least there, the zooming is done in a nice way, using vectors. Either try to get the zooming right, or do not put it there as default, please. Update: Wow, I just saw this!
My second problem with Kicker is the big buttons next to the “K” menu. They are huge, taking half the Kicker’s screen space on a low res monitor and make the K icon look like just another button, while it is an important menu and should have a seperate look to distinguish it from the rest of the big icons. I would like to suggest to move to the “Quick Launch” solution for these additional buttons (like the terminal, Show Desktop, Konqueror, Kmail etc) which in a medium sized Kicker (48 pixels), it can accomodate two rows of icons at 16 pixels each. There is already a Quick Launch feature on KDE 3 today, but it is buggy and it does not behave as it should (icons just shuffle around by themselves, you can’t add an application that is not part of the KMenu etc). Also, it is important to remember and understand that most Joe Users never ever modify their desktops (or even have the right to modify them in a corporate environment). 90% of users just stay with default settings. This is why the default settings have to be right and serve everyone.
The rest of Kicker is pretty well done, but I would like to suggest four more things:
1. The “Hide Panel” button should only be on the right hand side. Instead of having this huge 48pix (height) button that only hides Kicker on the right, “cut” the button in half and put an arrow looking on the left and one arrow looking to the right, underneath the first arrow. In essense, create two buttons there, which will only take the same screen space as before, but they will have the same functionality like when having two buttons.
2. I really like emulating the OSX Dock look and feel so most of the time, my Kicker is set to about 33% of space of my 1280×1024 desktop. “Expand to Fit Required Size” is ON, however, when I open a new application, Kicker does not resize to accomodate a 150 pixel widget of the Taskbar for the application that I just launched. This is a must-have feature. Kicker should be intelligent enough to know that Taskbar requires more space when a new application was launched creating an entry to the Taskbar, therefore it needs to resize itself. Instead, Taskbar today is just resizing itself (instead of just resize the whole Kicker), creating entries that are as small as 16pixels, making a centered Kicker feature, useless.
3. Please start grouping similar items after 3, 4 or 5 (user selectable) same applications are open, not just after 2.
4. The “tear-off” KMenu is ugly. This dotted option is really archaic looking. Please change it to something more soft, maybe something similar to the shot following down this page.
The Open/Save Dialog
I believe that the biggest problem in this dialog, and a bit laughable from a UI point of view, is the redundancy of the “Home Directory”. In this dialog, it is accessible from three different locations as you can see from the screenshot. Also, KDE should take more initiative and add more “Favorite” places along wth the “Documents,” “Temporary Files,” places: My Music, My Downloads and other options as found appropriate.
The Encoding Selection should be under the “Extras”. The “Detailed/Short View” should be under Extras/View as well. The Preview does not work if one has selected “Separate Directories” from the Extras/View menu. This needs fixing. The Favorites MS Outlook-like bar on the left, need to have a little button like Mozilla has, that it will allow it to autocollapse. The “Preview” button should go on the left or not be there at all. A Preview should appear immediately after one has checked the “Automatic Preview” checkbox. The Preview button is redundant there, and in fact, it confuses the user as it does not even align correctly with the “OK” and “Cancel” buttons underneath it.
The context menu inside the dialog is really poorly designed. When someone has selected some files or directories inside the open/save dialog, almost the same context menu as the one described above for the desktop icons should apply. Instead, what we see here is a mix of options that apply to selected files and to actions that should be done when no files are selected (eg. Back, Parent Directory, Sorting etc). There should be two kinds of context menus there, one for selected files/folders and one for when nothing is selected. Currently everything is in a mix, and nothing is obvious. From usability point of view, this needs fixing ASAP.
Konqueror
To be honest, I am not so sure that having Konqueror being able to do Koffee is a good thing. Konqueror, through its KParts, is able to display from CVS, to FTP, to local files, to images, documents, web pages and much more. This sounds nice. In reality though, it makes Konqueror unmanageable.
There are so many options on its menus that, too frequently, have very little to do with your current action (e.g. web browsing, while I find options on the menus that better apply on local browsing).
1. I want to be able to put the location toolbar next to my icons one, but Konqueror will refuse to do so, even if there is sufficient space for it, because a link inside its History has a long URL making the virtual size of the drop down menu too wide (this is a Qt issue and it needs to be fixed in an API level, I think), confusing the toolbar code.
2. I’ll be damned, but I added a local bookmark through my Save/Open dialog (/home/eugenia), and I cannot see it from the main bookmarks menu on Konqueror. This is not what I call consistency. Even if you have to separate web with local bookmarks through a menu seperator, that local bookmark should be visible from all bookmark menus.
3. Bug report time: If you remove the “Font sizes” toolbar from Konqueror and then you add it back in on the main toolbar, the two font size-related icons are not visible anymore and you will need to restart Konqueror to get them back (this does not happen with other icons/toolbars). I saw there is a bug report for it on the KDE bug database, for months now…
4. Toolbar icons should be by default on 16×16. The current default 22×22 is possibly a bit too big. But this is just a personal preference, I guess.
5. Konqueror does not support “border-collapse: collapse;”. Ok, this is not really a problem, it’s just a good way to ask for support for it as OSNews uses it in its CSS code to make its tables look good. 😉
6. I would like to see KDE have a better integration with the system and be able to have a “Copy Image to Clipboard” from a web page and then be able to paste it on Gimp or in a KOffice document.
Qt/GTK+ Collaboration
And this brings me to the GTK+/Qt issue, which in my view, is an important one.
Copy/Paste between the two popular APIs does not always work. I am not talking about the “X11’s middle-mouse-button paste”, but I am talking about real integration between GTK+ and QT in the API level. It is absolutely unthinkable to use a desktop that launches applications with different look, feel and behaviour. Let’s face it; While KDE has a lot of users, Gnome has a lot of developers. Unix is traditionally C-based, and GTK+ is basically C, while QT is C++. A lot of important applications have been written in GTK+. From Evolution, down to AbiWord, Gnumeric, Mr Project, GTKatalog and a whole bunch of other applications that are forming along with the Qt applications the overall X11 experience. People use both GTK+ and QT applications on their desktop. It is a common fact. And KDE and GTK+ developers should use an intermiediate way of making the copy/paste work well between their applications. Also, the KDE project should create a GTK+ theme for both GTK+ 1.2x and 2.x that is able to somewhat mimick the KDE default theme (colors, widgets etc). The Gnome guys on the other side, should also do the same when they are loading a KDE application and make the KDE application look like a GTK+ one. While differences will still be visible (a theme can never replace a real API/coding integration), but at least it will give a good feeling of consistency on one’s desktop. This “trick” will not only benefit KDE, but Gnome as well, and most of all, the user. And it will help bring Unix a step closer to the desktop in the eyes of the Windows or Mac user who are used to a consistent desktop.
The Looks of the Default KDE
I would like now to take the time and discuss the last three issues I have with KDE 3. While there are a lot of UI clean ups to be made AT ALL levels of KDE (from the system panels/apps down to the included applications), it would take me many hours to analyze all. I would leave the rest of the work for the UI designers of KDE. I just hope that the developers listen to the UI designers, because it is known that developers in general, do not always want to listen to the “artists”. This is a common problem on all co-ordinated open source projects. Developers are coding “for fun”, and take orders by no one. Anyways, this is a completely different issue.
1. Important! The menu entries on every KDE’s applications are extremely close to each other. Give it 4-5 more pixels please! The new Gnome 2.0 does it lovely and correctly in this respect.
2. I hope that donators or even TrollTech themselves will be able to buy some high quality fonts for KDE that are able to AA by default and that are able to installed to the system at the same time as KDE is installed. That Helvetica font just doesn’t cut it anymore in the year 2002.
3. Important No2. The current default theme for KDE is butt ugly. I personally use a (modified) .NET theme that comes with Qt. Even the .Net theme I chose to use in lack of something better, has extreme flaws (no grab bars below windows, extremely flat-looking, the blue selection color is ugly – use a lighter/softer one, the grey color on the left of each menu is too dark), however, it is still better than the default KDE one. I trust that the KDE folks have something better to offer in their future versions. By adding the Crystal icons, maybe SVG support, something as nice as the *modified* .NET
theme I suggest or something completely fresh and interesting looking, would be a welcomed surprise.
Please do not forget what we said about the defaults. If the defaults are not nice or what I consider “right,” they can immediately put off a lot of people. Most users do not care about modifying and changing appearance. The defaults have to be right, and the default KDE overall theme is looking old, tired, and uninteresting.
Conclusion
In the beginning of this long article I quickly spoke about integration. Now that you have read all the above, you might think that if the KDE folks add all these suggestions in the next release, Eugenia (that’s me) will be happy and she will (at last) be convinced that KDE is “ready for the desktop.” I sincerely wish that this would be the case. Unfortunately, it is not. What every X11 desktop environment needs is both polishing and integration with the underlying system. Joe User does not want to type arcane Unix commands to install a new driver, or modify this or that. No matter how easy is for you and me that “./configure; make; make install” it sounds like jibberish to Joe User who recently came from the Windows land. Things how to change the refresh rate or the resolution on X11 (please, don’t give me that ALT+CNTRL+(+)(-))? How to change your graphics card driver? How to change the driver for the sound card? These are all problems that KDE should solve through a GUI solution, no matter if the KDE project thinks that it is not their job to do so.
KDE is today the leading X11 desktop environment, there is no denying in that. With great success, great responsibilities are coming as well. In order to be compared to WindowsXP and MacOSX, it needs to do solve some or all of the above problems. A standard way should be found, that is distribution independant (or, alternatively, distros should follow a standard), so KDE would be able to create such tools. These tools are important for the end user. You can’t and shouldn’t just use DrakConf, Yast2, or apt-get, or portage. These are just tools for four distros, tools incompatible between
them! There are more than 10 important distributions today! What about these rest of distros? There has to be found a unified way, a way that works universally to all these distros, a way endorsed via the desktop environment.
For this plan to work, Linus needs to make some hard choices as well. The Linux driver handle should be made more plug-n-play, more flexible, while there should absolutely not be any driver binary incompatibilities between different sub-versions of the same version kernel (nVidia users have a taste of these headaches). Also, all this library dependancy hell needs to (somehow) go away. Microsoft has solved the issue on XP by including different versions of a library in a single file, and Linux should also pionneer a way that will allow users to move more comfortably around their system and easily install new applications without the fear of dependancy/incompatibility (unresolved symbols anyone, after upgrading to GCC 3.1?).
I am eager to read your comments and opinions on how you think your favorite X11 environment can better itself. What are your likes/dislikes and personal preferences? I certainly took my time this afternoon to explain how I think we can better the Unix desktop. Please use the forum provided and comment on your preferences.
I’m a computer user for a long time… And I remember when I used MS-DOS…
“THE PC IS READY FOR THE DESKTOP” Everybody said… Usign Proffesional Write, WordStar or MS Word for DOS for word-processing and Lotus 123 as spreadsheet…
Then… Windows 3.1 came to the Arena… and everyone said “THE PC IS READY FOR THE DESKTOP”… But… compared with “archaic” X-Window interfaces such as FVWM, WindowMaker or AfterStep… is SO ugly !!! But… Windows was ready for desktop and the “X” alternatives not…
The same Story with Windows 9x, WinMe and now WinXP… Allways they were ready for desktop… But the “old fashioned” FVWM, AfterStep, WindowMaker, and the newest Gnome and KDE releases no !!! While MS-DOS and their succesors were !!!
Stop kidding !!!! As a KDE user consider these points:
A- KDE (and Gnome) is Free Software and it’s 100% Cooperative… A lot of people spend their spare time to give us the best they do: Programs… “If someone gave you a horse as a gift, don’t look its teeth” says everyone in my country (Argentina).
B-Those idea that “Joe User” can do everything in a pc with no knowledge of the “know-how” is a lie… Macro viruses, system hangs and a lot of things are so popular in the Windows arena because “Joe user” doesn’t know why they occur and what are their causes. He must know how to use a PC, even he uses windows or linux to do the things in the right way.
C-“Joe user” in the most of the cases uses illegal software and a closer person of him, is an experimented user and THAT person is the one who solves the problems of Joe user, doing the hard job of a Microsoft’s User support dept… Read this if you’re not convinced: http://pinsa.escomposlinux.org/sromero/linux/pringao/techslacky.htm…
D- If you are a car owner… Are you a car mechanic ??? The less you know is how to turn on your car, how to drive it and how you need full your gas tank… Joe user is the same: The less he knows is how to turn on the PC and how do the things he need… When he has a problem, he calls a tecnician or he calls to his personal “tech-slacky”… So… is SO needed to give him the full power to solve the whole of problems on a PC ??? I don’t imagine myself changing a broken piston of my car… And…
D- A PC isn’t a Game console or a microwave: Is something more complex that needs some knowledge to use it in a proper way, instead which OS uses the PC… but “Joe User” doesn’t want spend his free time learning how to use his computer… AND THIS… IS THE REASON WHY LINUX IS READY FOR DESKTOP… JOE USER, WHATEVER OS HE USES, HE MUST LEARN !!! AND IS THE SAME TO LEARN TO USE WINDOWS OR USE KDE… (’cause Joe user for a long time (or never) doesn’t want to know the backends of a PC…)
It’s only my opinion… KDE is so ready for desktop… It could be better… but it’s ready… Possibly “Joe user” isn’t ready to sit himself in front of a computer.
If we take a look at Jakob Nielsen’s ten usability heuristics (pay special attention to #2)
http://www.useit.com/papers/heuristic/heuristic_list.html
And then we look at the type of nonsense you typically find in KDE:
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-usability&m=102650798104375&w=2
We have our answer as to why KDE (and linux in general) has been having so many usability problems. Don’t bother wasting your time, Eugenia. You’d get better results talking to a wall. If some people want to sequester themselves in their server closet, command-line ghettos and have their asses perpetually kicked by microsoft, then by all means let them do so.
But enough bitching on my part. I once thought my idea of getting together a bunch of fellow macintosh enthusiasts to produce the world’s most usable linux desktop which would be based on macos UI conventions was a silly duplication of existing efforts. Now I realize that it will be the most sanest, logical, and effective course of action.
Who knows. Maybe my project will one day grace the headlines of OSNews.
While I like a lot of your suggestions about fixing up context menus, improving the default colour scheemes etc. What I would really like to see from KDE is more simplicity. A good example is Fluxbox (http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/) – while Fluxbox takes simplicity to the extreme and is too simple for KDE, it is very nice to have a desktop completely free of clutter. KDE should work on removing a lot of stuff from the default settings that will only be used by few or advanced users – keeping the desktop as simple as possible for normal users will help make the desktop more easy to use. A lot of context menus, tons of icons to do everything under the sun is nice, but it confuses a new user, so it should be removed by default (but be possible to add for a more advanced user).
just a few comments
I have no major gripes with the arguments presented in the article. While my personal preferences may differ from the proposed solutions in some respects. I have to say that what we are talking about here is a human machine interface. there can be no simple or indeed singuar solution to this question. If that is what is pursued in this thread then eventually all we will succeed in doing is trying to isolate the user from the machine. While corporations may welcome this as a reduction in investment in employee education it is in the end a futile and self limiting exercise. If you wish ‘joe user’ to use a machine you have to teach them to use it. A computer is no different from a handsaw in that respect. it is just a tool. If the O/S allows the user to perform the tasks required more effectively (and how THAT is measured is still a huge area of debate). Configurability has to remain one of the first and most easily obtainable options. Integration with the underlying O/S is desirable but not if it cripples the O/S (to address the call for a kde only distro. If anybody wants a practical demo of what that entails see http://www/microsoft.com <g>)
I agree with almost all of your article. The only bit that made me think “hmm?” is the part where you suggested a My Music and a My Downloads folder. I’ve already got places for that sort of thing and don’t want kde to add some additional ones.
With the issue of configuration, I think the beauty of linux is that you don’t have to use a GUI. If you want you can edit your own files, issue your own commands to compile things and generally do everything independent of X. Personally, I do all file operations via the console (through konsole/xterm) and hardly ever use the directory browser in kde. However, new users do.
The reason I like using Linux instead of Microsoft Windows is the way that every day brings a new challenge, there’s an element of Do It Yourself. I don’t won’t that taken away from me.
My final point, and it’s a classic, is the way you have new users saying “I’m using Linux 7.3”, “Is there a way in Linux you can add an option to the start menu?” (i.e. linux is a kernel and therefore doesn’t have a start/k menu)
So, in general, kde should have close, but optional, intregation with the system. A compromise between keeping us geeks happy and keeping newbies from windows happy until they work out how linux works.
I agree with almost all of your article. The only bit that made me think “hmm?” is the part where you suggested a My Music and a My Downloads folder. I’ve already got places for that sort of thing and don’t want kde to add some additional ones.
You could always delete KDE’s one. Or even move your stuff to these KDE directories.
50% of all linux and unix desktops run kde3? ridiculous. compared to ~21% for gnome. Only if you think all linux and unix desktop users are braindead. You must have gotten those number from a poll on a KDE site.
we won’t fall prey to the popular “KDE developers do not care about the users” mentality that has headlined [http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=…] several news sites lately.
– I don’t like their anti-KDE stuff. Don’t take them that serious.
I hope that some of my recommendations will make it to the final version of KDE 3.1.
– I hope you used the KDE bug report system, post your comments to the developers.
, this context menu is bloated with too many options in the root level
– right. That’s because there are many ways people who like to customize their desktop. There is no UI – guideline, esp. context menus are really sad. Many applications in the panel are without icons.
– What do you think about polls?: How would you like KDE to look by default.
,” places: My Music, My Downloads and other options as found appropriate.
– Oh no! That’s silly.
. Toolbar icons should be by default on 16×16. The current default 22×22 is possibly a bit too big. But this is just a personal preference, I guess
– I agree. I like very small buttons. But most users, beginners like it more.
While KDE has a lot of users, Gnome has a lot of developers.
– Look at the numbers…
Qt/GTK+ Collaboration
– Same: Java, X11 Apps, console apps (fonts too small and ugly)
1. Important! The menu entries on every KDE’s applications are extremely close to each other. Give it 4-5 more pixels please! The new Gnome 2.0 does it lovely and correctly in this respect.
– KDE looks better.
– The grey 4 virtual windows on the kicker look ugly.
KDE is today the leading X11 desktop environment, there is no denying in that. With great success, great responsibilities are coming as well. In order to be compared to WindowsXP and MacOSX, it needs to do solve some or all of the above problems.
– You imply that KDE was inferior. I don’t think so. No desktop may be customized like KDE.
Trolltech and KDE
– Trolltech isn’t that important. But a big problem is that KDE API and QT are not quite the same. Trolltech is *very good* in developer’s documentation while KDE is worse. Trolltech doesn’t sell KDE, they sell QT.
– The KDe bug reporting system may increase its usability. Bug reports must be made easier.
– Important: KDevelop has to improve its UI. UI – guidelines shall be included into Trolltechs QT-Designer.
– Important: Most Screenshots of OSS/FS-programs show very strange desktops, the ones of the developers. There has to be a linux info base, where the system is introduced for users only. Users are not interested in features, XML-support and strange bug fixes, They want to know that they can do word processing, use their word files, browse the internet ecc. So there have to be more user-oriented press releases.
There was a good article in the german computer magazine PCDirekt:
http://www.vnunet.de/pdf/upload/PCDIREKT_03-02_Linux.pdf
>> “Also, it is important to remember and understand that most Joe Users never ever modify their desktops”.
What you are basically saying here is what any MS designer would say, nothing new really. And you as most others talk warmly about the beaten path, “when are KDE going to come to it’s senses, big userbase brings responsebility” (for whom?) bla, bla, etc, etc.. when will you all realise that KDE is not “a person” or “entity” that can be shown the “right” way? KDE and Gnu/Linux is an (r)evolutionary process in the world of technology and can’t be “told” what is should do.
– Tosh
50% of all linux and unix desktops run kde3? ridiculous. compared to ~21% for gnome. Only if you think all linux and unix desktop users are braindead. You must have gotten those number from a poll on a KDE site.
The poll was from here. It is pretty consistent with other polls done on KDE websites, and non-KDE UNIX-related sites.
What you are basically saying here is what any MS designer would say, nothing new really.
Well, they are pretty true. A lot of users, those using their workplace systems, aren’t allowed to customize their machines. A lot of home users don’t customize their machines because they rarely use them. It is only geeks that customize their stuff. For a normal user, the most they would do is change the background picture and probably add some icons on the Quick Launch and/or desktop.
Some of your observations are spot on others…
While we should try to improve KDE, we should not bend-over backwards just to accomodate Joe-Sixpack. We should require that Joe-Sixpack respect our community, by LEARNING something about OUR OS — LINUX should not be a knock off off Win XP OR the Mac OS-X. If someone can’t lear that the way you change screen resolution is Ctl+Alt+(+)(-) then they should not being using a LINUX system. I use that feature several times every day.
2) Let us not in the process of making all these changes end up with a bloated kernel. Every time I hear the word “integration” I think of how M$ has “integrated” every thing into the kernel. What that has produced is a kernal that is huge buggy, and bloated. Let’s not follow M$ steps in order to attract Joe Sixpack.
3) Let’s give the public some credit for some intelligence. People can learn a new OS if they want. Please don’t tell me that Win XP GUI is something to brag about — its not. CHOICE should be the thing that distinguishes LINUX from Windows. If people are put off by KDE default and are unwilling to learn that they can change it to suit their taste, then we don’t really need them. Cosmetic changes are one thing but let’s not destroy that which makes LINUX unique.
You might think that the “tear off” looks bad, any idiot knows what it means, “this “mouse over” symbol??? I’d never have guessed what that was unless I played with it. That is a really POOR idea.
While I agree with you on some points, you are WRONG on many others. Lets us not follow M$ down the road of ruin, let’s remember that the issue is choice, not assimulation, let’s require that if Joe Sixpack wants to use a LINUX system, he needs to LEARN what a LINUX system is, and it starts not with accepting a bloated buggy OS due to integration, and and a GUI put together by corporate focus groups, but with CHOICE. If Joe Sixpack is unwilling to accept personal responsibilty for what he looks at PLEASE TELL HIM TO STAY WITH THE BRAIN DEAD DRONES OF MICROSOFT!!
Bobcat
I read an article on a Linux guy went back to Windows. Basically he went back because he hated installing things from .rpms and source. So regardless of the GUI, Linux will always suck!
Well not to stop there I decided to try and offer a solution. I began playing with emulators visualboyadvanced, and the games work perfectly with no install. Emulator games are the bet games for Linux. Then it hit me. What is needed are rom kde-x applications. No install, no microsoft installations either, just download a rom click on it, and it will run.
Put it in usr/bin, and it will run for everybody.
Interesting notion you have there. However, if Joe User just wants to push the pretty buttons, he shouldn’t even be USING a computer. And why do you want KDE to be the only desktop for linux, which you are implying? After all, there are CHOICES! I want to know how long KDE will last if it becomes the same as M$ Windows. I mean, they’re already nearly identical in appearance. And if they integrate full system management into it, they’ll become the next Windows. Yay! Just what I want! Another desktop crushing the others just because someone decided to integrate it with the Linux kernel and make it one big OS that is pretty much a black box inside. No thanks, I advocate that KDE does NOT become the only DE with linux.
And going back to my original flame to Eugenia, I was saying that her ‘requirements’ are just plain stupid. Asking all this from a bunch of guys working in their spare time on this project is like asking someone who manages their garden after work to plant potatoes instead of tomatoes. (And yes, I know that analogy may not fit 100%, but you should get its intent).
Enough of my ranting, I’m through with this thread.
Justin Hibbits
Pure X11 is a protocol, designed for network transparency. All of you seem to missing the point. We are not dealing with just a GUI here. KDE and GNOME (I use GNOME) are at the far end of user space, Blaming there problems on X is utter foolishness, and only goes to emphasize a persons ignorance about what X is.
Does any one remember twm. Now even on a P75 you can get it up and running. Does all your windowing, and has non of the frills and dills that come with KDE or GNOME. Run it on one of these speed up the wazoo computers and with it X will scream from speed.
The strength of X is in its ability to mold and shape itself to our needs and desires, just because a bunch of toolkit programmers have forgotten the fundamentals, does not mean that X is bad, it means the programmers suck. (I am one of those sucky programmers ) But this is what happens when people start looking for features instead of productivity and stability.
please please ; no more X must die
X is a GOOD client/server environnement
but X needs IMPROVMENTS
no MORE “we have to burn the world to do a better world”
X CAN be improved. by example, to do a good interface to configure it and to allow dynamic change of configuration
(no more stop X, start X )
see ?
about drivers
I think the easier way is distribution to ALWAYS install ALL drivers
ALL
and to kde/gnome interface to allow to load the good drivess when it’s needed
in fact, it’s a kernel linux things
and it’s already there
you need usb-mass storage ? and HOP linux load it
you need the creative soundblaster module ? hop linux load it.
you see ?
of course, gnome,kde interface need to be dynamic
in fact, if someone plug a usb zip drive
linux see that (it’s already done in 2.4)
a good distribution have to use “usb-hotplug”
usb-hotplug load usb-storage module
kde/gnome interface need to read the kernel message of linux
and to understand -> “haha! a new drive is plug ! and I see there a disk in it ! okay ! I put a nice desktop icon )
dynamic answer.
in a good gui, the interface do the mount
maybe a configuration option disable that, to allow “mount” command in terminal , for expert
but default, have to do mount automatically
like the cdrom is managed in redhat 7.2/7.3 thanks to the “magicdev” deamon
you put a CD , the deamon see that, and nautilus (gnome) add a nice desktop icon, the cd is already mounted
and linux already know how to do that for usb, firewire and every other type of disk.
linux kernel already can do that, interface gnome and kde don’t use it. it’s a shame
I come back to X
X is not dynamic, you plug a usb wacom table
the kernel see that, it’s says “hey! a wacom usb interface. ! and it needs the wacom module ! I load it ,it’s reaaady”
but X doesn’t care.. X only read XFreeconfig…
X needs to be able to react to kernels events and changes it’s configuration dynamically (at launch and after )
and no, it’s not “X must die” ,it’s “X is good, we can do it better!”
It would be soooo simpler if X could be accept my new usb mouse dynamically, like OSX
thanks to read me
Great article. I agree with most of the points and seriosly hope that KDE 3.1 will address many of the points you have mentioned.
Have you created .Net modified style yourself? If yes, please consider putting it on http://www.kde-look.org or other such place.
I also like different background (slightly gray) for icons in the menus. I checked a lot of themes out at http://www.kde-look.org but couldn’t find any which has that. Could you tell what needs to be changed in a style to enable that ?
> please please ; no more X must die
> X is a GOOD client/server environnement
> but X needs IMPROVMENTS
> no MORE “we have to burn the world to do a better world”
> X CAN be improved. by example, to do a good interface to
> configure it and to allow dynamic change of configuration
> (no more stop X, start X )
> see ?
Agreed. Finally someone, who doesn’t repeat mantra “X must die”.
> about drivers
> I think the easier way is distribution to ALWAYS install
> ALL drivers
> ALL
This is the way BeOS did. There were only few drivers for BeOS, so they were installed all, and system loaded relevant drivers as-needed.
One nice sideeffect of this is, that you can pull harddrive from computer, put it into another, and everything works without reinstalling. When you put the harddrive into original computer, the system is not damaged beyond recognition.
You can also put system on read-only medium, like CD, and it still works as expected. You could boot into gui with full hardware support from CD.
> (few points deleted)
> kde/gnome interface need to read the kernel message of
> linux and to understand -> “haha! a new drive is plug ! and
> I see there a disk in it ! okay ! I put a nice desktop icon
With drives – it would be nice, if they put the icon on the desktop ONLY IF the device contains medium (if the device is removable). They should also automount them. After umounting they should eject them and delete icon from desktop. Also, the icons should NOT be named “cdrom” or “floppy”, use volume labels instead – that’s what they are for! (It would be nice touch to dynamicaly create mountpoints with volume labels, instead of /mnt/cdrom, for example MacOS X does this in /Volumes directory).
They should NOT display icons for empty drives. Users will click them and get error messages.
The only problem I can see is PC floppy. It doesn’t support either insert notification nor media locking (to prevent users eject media while mounted). So floppy drives should either improve or die.
Currenly in KDE, user has to create “CD file” or “Floppy file” and manually mount the devices. This is as user-unfriendly as it gets.
> (more good points deleted).
> I come back to X
> X is not dynamic, you plug a usb wacom table
> the kernel see that, it’s says “hey! a wacom usb interface.
> and it needs the wacom module ! I load it ,it’s reaaady”
> but X doesn’t care.. X only read XFreeconfig…
There are rumors, that XF5 should be able to work without XF86Config and figure out everything for itself, delegating config file for tweakers. We should persuade the developers to monitor for dynamic hardware configuration changed too.
> and no, it’s not “X must die” ,it’s “X is good, we can do
> it better!”
X is great system for what it does. When I was young&stupid, I also thought, that X is horrible. After learning more about X, I think it is excellent.
X’s architecture is so well-thought, that things like using hardware surfaces with z-depth for top-level windows, different color-depths for different windows or at least server-provided backing store for obsured windows are possible. It just needs to be implemented and Eugenia would get her smooth window monving (no, it’s not vsynced).
> It would be soooo simpler if X could be accept my new usb
> mouse dynamically, like OSX
falls into “monitoring for dynamic hardware configuration changes”
> thanks to read me
You are welcome 🙂
I agree: It’s not the GUI. We need binary compatibility. Installation is worse, that’s the point.
Beware! IMHO there already are too many Linux-related things tied to kde. Please separate any system-related stuff into special packages.
Imagine what you linux users would say if an “Install software” option would take you to a collection of solaris-pkgs or hpux-depots!
By the way: a couple of times the article mentiones a desirable behaviour for the root user … no please! Don’t allow applications to be executed as root at all! Maybe do it the Mac OS X way: certain applications can offer one-time sudo-access by entering the password.
Create new link to app, and create new link to location, are great, but the single thing I find my self wishing for most often is create new symlink. I find myself either opening midnight commander to do it, or having to browse in konqueror and drag, then use the Link Here, that pops up. Create new symlink (preferably with a browse button in the resulting dialog) would be SO much easier!
Also, a context menu copy/move to dialog, like MS added to W9x with their powertoys, would be great, but I believe I read that is in 3.1-alpha/CVS.