Apple recently added two new retail configurations to its MacBook line of consumer notebooks, both of which are now available at most of the company’s stores. A new 2.0GHz white MacBook configuration packs an additional 512MB of RAM and 20GB of extra hard disk space, for a total of 1GB of RAM (via two 512MB SODIMMs) and 80GB of storage. The new model retails for USD 1449, or USD 150 more than the 2.0GHz white MacBook with 512MB of RAM and a 60GB hard disk. Both configurations included Apple’s SuperDrive optical disc drive. Meanwhile, Apple has also introduced a new configuration of its black 2.0GHz MacBook, dubbed the ‘MacBook Ultimate’.
Ok, so the “higher end” model is $150 more, but where is the savings? $150 basically covers the cost of of a fancy DVD-RW+- dive and a 20 gig HD. Actually wait, both machines have the super drive, so is that $150 really for a 60 gig SATA HD?!? Seems like a lot of money to me for a cruddy 60 gigs.
I agree. The “Macbook Ultimate” is also a rip. “Ultimate” is an extra 512MB of RAM? The Macbooks are painful with their default 512MB configuration. 1GB isn’t “utlimate”, it’s usable.
. The “Macbook Ultimate” is also a rip. “Ultimate” is an extra 512MB of RAM? The Macbooks are painful with their default 512MB configuration. 1GB isn’t “utlimate”, it’s usable.
The “Ultimate” is relative to the other macbook configurations. Useable is also a relative term. I am sorry you feel that way but marketing usually looks at the market and decides a configuration and price.
You may find that for your purposes the default configuration is lacking. Computers are made expandable for that very purpose.
Edited 2006-07-05 16:45
It’s not just for “my purposes”, OS X lags very significantly with 512MB of RAM, just browsing around. It is not unusual for Safari by itself to chew up hundreds of megs of RAM.
As for looking at the market and deciding — tell me what marketing logic leads Apple to sell $2500+ PowerMacs with only 512MB of RAM? At least those machines are easily expandable. The Macbooks can only be upgraded with RAM by throwing away the included 512MB.
As for looking at the market and deciding — tell me what marketing logic leads Apple to sell $2500+ PowerMacs with only 512MB of RAM? At least those machines are easily expandable. The Macbooks can only be upgraded with RAM by throwing away the included 512MB.
Both those configs have only 512MB RAM by default.
http://alienware.com/product_pages/notebook_all_default.aspx
All of these configs even the $1949 one come with 512MB.
http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/t-series/index.html
Rayiner, before you go calling it “a rip” its important to put these prices in perspective. It’s only disproportionately priced as compared to the other macbooks when you consider your only getting a better hard drive.
However, even with that $150, it’s still massively less expensive than any other PC laptop with the same specs.
Edited 2006-07-04 18:32
Get out of your tree and walk to the dell store (dell.com :p), you can get the same configuration for about the same price or even cheaper for a “regular” laptop.
Looks like an Inspiron E1405 starting from the “Ultimate Entertainment” is $1295 with the following changes:
2GHz Core Duo
Windows XP Media Center Edition (with backup CD)
Dell 350 Bluetooth Internal Wireless
For anyone that doesn’t want to look that includes 1GB of RAM, 100GB HDD, Office Basic, 8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability, integrated graphics, and your typical wireless expectations.
The first thing the True Beliver will do is complain that it has a 14.1″ LCD vs. the 13.3″ LCD in the Macbook, that it lacks the built-in camera, and that it doesn’t run iLife or whatever their favorite software happens to be. They might also demand XP Pro instead of Media Center Edition depending on the weather, which will increase the cost by $78.
I don’t really feel like trolling through Dell’s website through all of their other options, models, and of course looking for any stackable deals there might be. Computers today should ship with 1GB standard and anything less, regardless of what the competition is doing, is simply uncivilized. It’s about infinity billion times more important than a mediocre camera, in my less than humble opinion.
I actually choose the MacBook over that same Dell a few days ago. Well the canadian equivalent of that Dell.
They are very similar machines. The Dell was a little cheaper. The MacBook was smaller and looked better. I decided to go for the size.
My last laptop was a Dell. It was cheap and worked. The problem was it always felt cheap. The plastic creaked, the styling sucked, and it was a pain to move. I was actually planning to go for a Thinkpad this time around as people always comment on how nicely they are built. The MacBook was just released at the right time with the right features to pique my interest.
The magsafe feature was also big in swaying me as my last laptops all suffered from broken power connectors. Something with the way I use laptops just seems to apply the wrong pressures to the plug on the laptop causing connections inside the laptop to break. It never makes the laptop completely broken, but it is annoying having the power cut in and out all the time. Having to prop the plug in the right way to get a connection. Oh and noticing your laptop has not actually been charging when you are packing it up to board a plane drives me nuts. If magsafe works as advertised that is worth a lot to me on its own.
Will the MacBook suffer the same fate as my past laptops? Time will tell. But it is quite easy to see why people would get them.
Not true, below is a laptop for an Acer Travelmate that has the same specs but is about 500 clams cheaper.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.as…
nice.
aesthetically ugly.
but.
nice.
That has a weaker video option, lacks the remote, lacks the sometimes unreliable MagSafe connector, lacks the camera, lacks Bluetooth, and actually ships with a decent amount of memory. That’s a pretty good price too, and it looks alright. It’s a laptop, not a fashion model.
You shouldn’t say “same specs” because the Mac Zealot(tm) will take you to your word and hit you with a rolled up croissant-wrapper. Actually part of the game in baiting PC users is relying on Apple’s ability to include at least one feature, no matter how potentially irrelevant to the person that inevitably responds, and state quite plainly that no computer with the same specs is in a similar price range. If it’s missing the camera, one’ll go find a more expensive Sony laptop with a camera even if the other specs of the laptop are better. Even if you do, by some miracle, find something that matches the specs it doesn’t officially support OS X and you lose anyway. It’s a game that you can play but it’s arranged so that you’ll never win.
That’s true to some extent, but it’s also true that the “I don’t use X” excuse is often the result of not having X to begin with. Take the iSight in the Macbook, for example. The camera has better quality than the $130 Logitech Quickcam MP my dad has, and video-conferencing with iChat is so simple that even my mom figured out how to do it. I never saw the need for an integrated webcam before, but now that I have one, I must say the feature really adds to the value of the machine.
More generally, the Macbooks are just well-priced, even if you ignore features like Firewire or OS X. The mid-range Macbook 2.0 GHz whitebook is $84 more expensive then the equivalently priced E1405 (and that’s after a 20% discount on the E1405). Throw in any one of the extra features of the Macbook (sleeker profile, smaller size, sturdier build, more livable design, better software), and the $100 difference dissapears.
>> However, even with that $150, it’s still massively less expensive than any other PC laptop with the same specs.
SAME specs? Is anybody else out there even MAKING core duo laptops with a X1600, that even HAS a HDD under 100gigs?
For the price of the 1.83ghz ‘baseline’ I can get a gig of RAM and a 120 gig drive in a Acer Aspire with just a hair slower (1.66ghz) T2300… AND get a REAL display on it instead of one of these crappy little “Let’s make it ‘widescreen’ so we can actually sell a smaller LCD for more money” uber reflective to the point the glare is blinding pieces of crap apple’s grown a raging chodo for.
A laptop BTW which has ZERO overheating problems either – because they made it LARGE enough to actually be able to move AIR through it.
Not to mention a REAL DVD+/- dual layer drive (which apple only offers on their highest end
‘pro’, but that the entire rest of the world has been pretty much standard on for two years) so I’m not destroying my disks or scratching them up on ejection because of some retarded friction feed – AND I’ll probably be able to switch it out myself for a blu-ray or HD-DVD when/if such things become commonplace. Superdrive indeed… Super suck-ass.
But par for the course on Apple computers, there is always SOMETHING that lags a generation behind ‘Rest of World’ – this time out it’s drive technology, RAM and cooling.
1) Almost all the laptops in the Macbook’s price class have GMA950 video and an under 100 gig hard drive. At least laptops from Tier-1 manufacturers (which Acer isn’t).
2) The Macbook’s 13.3″ display is excellent. The wide-screen aspect ratio makes it more useful than the 15″ display in my late Inspiron 8200, and its picture quality, in sharpness, blacklevels, and saturation, is a huge step up from the picture of the 15.4″ display in the Inspiron 9100 that sits next to my Macbook at work.
3) The overheating thing is more QA than design. Most Macbooks get hot, but they won’t overheat. Heating versus size is a trade-off, but I’m using the Macbook on my lap right now, and I honestly can’t say it’s uncomfortable to the point where I’d prefer an extra half-inch of thickness for a cooler core temperature.
4) Are you trolling for every complaint you’ve ever seen about the Macbook? The friction feed hasn’t done anything to my disks, and Apple has ben using slot-loading drives for years on the iMac without major complaints. The lack of dual-layer is an issue, but the reason is the result of Apple’s use of slim-line DVD drives, none of which are available in a dual-layer model. Again, I’d rather have the smaller form-factor than dual-layer burning, as would most people.
The RAM is an entirely valid complaint. There is no reason in the world why any Intel Mac should ship with less than 1GB. It’s criminally negligent.
>> 2) The Macbook’s 13.3″ display is excellent.
Matter of opinion I guess – I haven’t been THIS unimpressed with a display on a portable since dual scan.
>> The wide-screen aspect ratio makes it more useful than the 15″ display in my late Inspiron 8200
This is one I just don’t get – it’s smaller, same pixels across, less total pixels – How in the hell can it be more useful… Not to mention that it’s ducking gamn fear useless for web browsing due to the lack of vertical space and the fact they are running 800 pixels in a cramped 7.3″… less space than a crappy 80’s technology 14″ monitor. System text ends up so damned small you cannot actually READ anything – and we all know how well OSX handles you changing the font metrics (it doesn’t)
>> and its picture quality, in sharpness, blacklevels, and saturation
and it’s color reproduction is so far off it’s useless for any serious image work.
>> is a huge step up from the picture of the 15.4″ display in the Inspiron 9100 that sits next to my Macbook at work.
Oh yeah, let’s compare it to a DELL, sure, the only company that uses cheaper componants than Apple since Packard Bell went under and HP bought out Compaq.
>> 3) The overheating thing is more QA than design.
Having had one open in front of me – No, it’s DESIGN. (I work in a ‘generic’ shop, we handle both Apple and PC) You take apple’s piss poor engineering and mix it with just making the thing too damned small for it’s own good, and this is what happens – doesn’t help that apple has NEVER had a CLUE when it comes to cooling.
>> 4) Are you trolling for every complaint you’ve ever seen about the Macbook?
No, that one is my own – I have a rabid dislike for friction feed and an even more rabid dislike for non-standard optical drives… Especially since most of the time the apple drives are total crap; at least back on the G3 and G4 laptops you could short pins 48 and 46 on the cable and have a CHANCE at putting a 3rd party drive in.
>> The lack of dual-layer is an issue, but the reason is the result of Apple’s use of slim-line DVD drives, none of which are available in a dual-layer model.
/fail/ at intarnet (no, that’s NOT a typo). Seriously, check the 17″ MacBook Pro, that has a dual layer… and across the board they all take standard form factor slim, so you COULD put a mainstream NEC, Sony, etc in there if it wasn’t for the fact you’d have to chop away at the bezel for the drive door. (WRYYYYYYYY!!!)
You might want to have a look at:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=20101000…
It’s the same sleazeball shit as companies like Dell still selling combo drives, asking $50-$100 for a DVD writer upgrade (usually a el-cheapo Lite-On or LG rebranded to their name), when on the hardware side the price difference is five bucks.
and you are quite correct on the RAM being criminal Given todays RAM prices, there is NO reason to ship anything with less than a gig.
Matter of opinion I guess – I haven’t been THIS unimpressed with a display on a portable since dual scan.
The reviews of the Macbook have been uniformly positive on the display. I’m sorry you don’t like it, but very many other people do.
This is one I just don’t get – it’s smaller, same pixels across, less total pixels – How in the hell can it be more useful…
Because the pixels are where you need it. When I’m working on a document or a program, I’d much rather have extra horizontal space than extra vertical space. That way, I can put things side by side and work on them at the same time.
and it’s color reproduction is so far off it’s useless for any serious image work.
It’s not really meant for “serious image work”. It’s a consumer portable. It’s meant for Microsoft Word, browsing, showing off photos, and watching DVDs. The screen is just great for these tasks.
Oh yeah, let’s compare it to a DELL, sure, the only company that uses cheaper componants than Apple since Packard Bell went under and HP bought out Compaq.
I dunno. I’m quite fond of my 2405FPW, which is universally well-reviewed, and the quality of the LCD in my Inspiron 8200 was excellent, though it wasn’t as saturated as I’d like.
Having had one open in front of me – No, it’s DESIGN.
If it was design, they’d all overheat. The sampling of responses I’ve seen online suggest that most do not.
/fail/ at intarnet (no, that’s NOT a typo). Seriously, check the 17″ MacBook Pro, that has a dual layer…
The Macbook and the 15″ MBP use a 9.5mm drive. The 17″ MB uses a 12.7mm drive. Both are slim-line, but one is about 1/10 an inch thicker. The 17″ MBP can get away with it, because it has a larger planform area that can accomodate the drive and the keyboard without them overlapping. In the other models, the two overlap, and the only way to it a 12.7mm drive in there would be to make the case 10% thicker.
You might want to have a look at:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2010…
I’m not going to check all of them, but I picked one at random, and it is indeed a 12.7mm drive. My guess is that you’d find the same to be true for the rest.
Edited 2006-07-05 14:19
If it was design, they’d all overheat.
It is quite possible for a design defect to have a probability of occuring that is less than 1. That would be like suggesting a car defect only exists if your car bursts into flames every time it’s hit.
The sampling of responses I’ve seen online suggest that most do not.
Eh, that’s an iffy way to make any sort of assertive statement though I would guess that the conclusion is probably right. I’m mostly assuming good-faith and non-retardation on the part of Apple.
Actually I guess it’s a more extreme assertion: a car only has a design defect if all of them explode when used normally. Neither is in accordance with what is considered a defect, I simply wasn’t being sufficiently-XTREME.
Don’t see either of these on the Apple store.
How’s the cooling? (sry couldn’t help it).
Reasonable. It’s a warm Virginia evening today, and our AC is on the blink, but my Macbook is sitting at 52C. I’ve got a thin little local magazine between my leg and the machine, and it’s not uncomfortable at all.
but my Macbook is sitting at 52C.
That’s good enough for me 🙂
Off topic:Apple could push the envelope a little to include a Peltier element that converts some heat into electricity so the batteries last even longer?
Edited 2006-07-05 06:41
You’d need the other end to be relatively cool, though, right? Doesn’t seem particularly efficient even if it could work. Reducing power consumption in the first place would be better.
>Off topic:Apple could push the envelope a little to >include a Peltier element that converts some heat >into electricity so the batteries last even longer?
or.. put a sticker “Use only on Arctic Environments”
post a link with the same specs and I’ll visit the Dell page.
I’m a big Mac fan, but will admit that most of the time, the specs for Apple machines is lower than competitors and over priced (esp. the Mac Pro laptops). I am very happy to admit that, so if there are any Non-Mac-Zealots out there, at least you know of one Mac-Zealot who is happy to say you can buy better and cheaper h/w elsewhere. Having said that, I think Apple is getting better at this.
The problem is, for a Mac guy, I need OS X. So I will buy the best Mac for what I need. If that means my h/w won’t be quite up to speed for the money compared with some other vendor, then so be it.
Someone made the point that it is pointless to argue with Mac-Zealots, which I think is true. That is because it’s not the h/w we really love, it really is the s/w. If you could get OS X on PC h/w, then you would see a lot of people migrate to non Apple h/w and how nice it looks and so on wouldn’t be a driving argument anymore.
However, the reverse is very true too, it is impossible to argue with a Non-Mac-Zealot either. They will always site h/w (you’ll notice they rarely site OS, esp. if they are XP fans) and price, games and availablity of s/w (though that argument isn’t used as much anymore).
Which h/w and s/w you prefer is your religion, and no one should push their religion on others (even though I have been known too) 🙂 Don’t be fooled into thinking that only Mac guys are part of some weird cult, check out pro XP (developers developers developers) and Linux (all hail Linus) postings on here too…
Someone made the point that it is pointless to argue with Mac-Zealots, which I think is true. That is because it’s not the h/w we really love, it really is the s/w. If you could get OS X on PC h/w, then you would see a lot of people migrate to non Apple h/w and how nice it looks and so on wouldn’t be a driving argument anymore.
On the contrary. I bought my wife a 12″ iBook and I love it myself. If it could run Windows (which I need for work), I would have thrown away my other laptop. VirtualPC doesn’t quite cut it unfortunately.
I’m definitely eyeing the new MacBooks, and with the (silly) rate 2nd hand Macs are going away for, I’ll probably soon sell the iBook and get a MacBook instead. If only they still offered 12″ versions…
>> If you could get OS X on PC h/w, then you would see a lot of people migrate to non Apple h/w and how nice it looks and so on wouldn’t be a driving argument anymore.
I’ve been saying that for years – Apple REALLY needs to get out of the hardware business, because quite frankly they don’t know what they are doing – and it’s PAINFULLY obvious to anyone who actually tries to FIX them.
>> They will always site h/w (you’ll notice they rarely site OS, esp. if they are XP fans) and price, games and availablity of s/w (though that argument isn’t used as much anymore).
I dunno, I still see the games and software one an awful lot. Still say they need to drop the 80’s style anti-business guy advertising; I keep waiting for the PC Guy’s kid to show up, say ‘Hey dad, Don’t sweat it – I’ve got this one.”, walk up to the dirty hippie apple guy, kick him in the nuts and say “Games, Bitch!” – kick him again – “Case mods, Bitch!” – kick him again – “7.1 audio out internally, Bitch!”… Hey, that would make a pretty good Alienware TV ad, wouldn’t it?
Seriously, arguing with the gaming platform that can DO everything your platform can do AND MORE, that it’s ‘bland and boring’ is REALLY stupid… Especially when your product line has gone to the sterile Ikea-like white art-deco plastic styling.
… much like linux I USE Macs regularly, doesn’t mean I’m apologetic for it’s shortcomings… You mention zealots, I prefer to think of them as Ostrich’s – heads in the sand in total denial.
The best thing I ever did was to get out of computer gaming. My hardware purchases are now half as expensive, I have so much more free time to code, and I don’t have to use a shitty Windows machine just because it plays games. I too use these platforms on a regular basis (Mac and Linux moreso than Windows), and it absolutely pains me every time I use a Windows machine. Windows and its software are just poorly designed, period.
“kick him again – “Case mods, Bitch!””
Yeah! That would be soo cool! He could show off his case mods, som 3D-marks and totally destroy that mac guy with his nerd-powers.
Nerd-powers? He isn’t a nerd, he’s the popular kid. Everyone hangs out with him. Sure, lots of people hate him, but he’s the center of every party. Kids, artists, engineers, scientists, powerful businessmen: he knows everyone. He should be hanging out with all of his friends while the Mac watches from the sideline complaining about his furniture. Though I guess it would be funnier if he was complaining about his bug problem. Just seeing a group of people hanging out on the side of the room filled with cockroaches would be pretty funny.
Obligatory Mac Ad link:
http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060513
It’s often pointless to argue with any sort of platform zealot because they’re True Believers. It’s like arguing with theists. That’s a side-issue to what I was saying though, which is that there’s a very specific pattern in the “There’s nothing with the same specs as the Mac in that price range” bait. The argument whether you think Macs are a good value or not is a rigged game for the PC user, because Apple will invariably do at least one thing differently in its price class and discussions will tend toward revolving around that. Pulling out a computer with even one thing different is an automatic loss, and if that doesn’t happen in hardware then the trump card is always it doesn’t run OS X officially. It is impossible for the PC user to ever win that argument, until such time as Apple ceases to differentiate itself at all in hardware and decides to commodify OS X. In general these people simply don’t care if the MagSafe connector isn’t what you want or that GarageBand is as useful to you as an asbestos-filled pinata it’s simply a Holy Truth that trumps all Non-Believers. Skip the argument, and if you really must, simply make a case for the value in whatever computer you might offer in comparison, but don’t claim that it is the same when it almost certainly isn’t because the discussion will trail away from whether a given computer is a good value.
It has nothing to do with whether you should use a Mac. I think most people making a good-faith effort (as opposed to some sloppy half-assed one that is clearly a defensive response) don’t care what you use, they’re simply discussing the value of computers, which given what they want to use them for makes the minute differences or the absence of MacOS X worth some trivial amount. Perhaps that amount is even zero. When you consider that to run a lot of software that person might actually want to use that they might need to buy more RAM or a Windows license anyway, it’s even easier to understand that a laptop with Bluetooth support they’ll never use isn’t more valuable than of the costs those such purchases will incur. The people involved are talking past each other, because the True Believer only cares that Apple’s intangibles assure superiority, and the other party’s looking to maximize what he gets that is of use to him for his hard-earned money.
The largest problem with computer proselytizing is that it really should be tailored to the particular needs or desires of the individual, or at the very least the class of individual. Not everyone is more concerned about shaving every dollar off of a computer at the expense of something they do find moderately useful or just novel that someone else doesn’t. Not everyone needs particular pieces of software only available on Windows. Not everyone needs iPhoto. When you know someone reasonably well it’s easy to sell them on a Mac or a particular configuration from the traditional Windows world because you can genuinely decide what will work out well for them. Internet discussions with strangers rarely work out all that well because they end up being about something else entirely.
As to the last part, fringe platform users tend to have disproportionate numbers of annoying zealots. I have a number of hypotheses why this is for any particular group, but I’d say the worst thing about the Mac as a platform is that disproportionate number of cultish retards because they actively serve to repel people from a platform that otherwise would suit their needs quite nicely. There are definitely poor forms of advertising, and pretentious dicks are certainly one form. That is hardly exclusive to the Mac clique, but when your platform is in the fringe looking for converts it doesn’t matter that there are dicks in other camps too. No one has to convert people to having an enormous selection of hardware options and Windows.
Besides, you can upgrade to the larget specs yourself if you want to, so no need to put such a configuration up for sale.
Apple should flex their buying muscles and just buy more RAM and always offer 1GB as a base for all their computers and get on with it. It is the one thing these machines lack for normal users after all.