Bash time on the web again for Lindows (unfortunately). ZDNews has an article about Lindows and their strategy. We sincerly hope that the company survive the bad press and all the Linux users who dislike Lindows mostly for political reasons (while Lindows does not target Linux users as customers). In related news, Lindows.com announced on Tuesday that it will host a Desktop Linux Summit, aimed at rallying interest in consumer Linux distributions.
It’s Reality Check Time for Lindows
2002-08-21 Linspire 28 Comments
I used the beta and I really kind of liked it. D/Led my own software and skipped the expensive software thingy they had. Lindows installed at least as easily as Red Hat and I found it easy to keep running even though I’m still learning Linux.
I want Lindows to fail. I don’t like their crooked software scheme. I think Linux needs help getting onto the desktop, but I don’t think Lindows is the company to do it. I think they’ll eventually disappear. I’m just hoping they don’t screw over too many on their way out.
“We sincerly hope that the company survive the bad press and all the Linux users who dislike Lindows mostly for political reasons…”
What about the Time article?
Offering people the chance to run Windows software in a non-MS OS was the only attractive thing that Lindows had going for it.
But offering the same medicore applications that Linux has always had (in an easy-to-download form) isn’t going to do much to entice anybody.
Sure, perhaps I’ll be able to run MS Office, but I’m doing that already on a rock solid OS (Win2k), so what’s the big draw here? Free went out the window when they started charging people for the priviledge of downloading stuff, and the security/absence of spyware will only last until Linux gets popular and starts to catch on.
The Time article was mostly about Lycoris, not Lindows. 95% of the articles on the web about Lindows are negative to them.
> I want Lindows to fail.
Yeah, please go and pray to happen. But make sure after that happens YOU compensate the employees and their families for the loss of their jobs.
I don’t like it when unsuspecting programmers lose their jobs, but I don’t think any developers working for Lindows really expect this thing to fly. If you’re really stupid enough to put your family’s welfare behind a company like Lindows, then you probably deserve what you get. In which case, I just hope that they’ve saved enough money to tide them over to the next big job.
Anyway Eugenia, trying to shift the focus onto the family is a bit of a red herring. That’s like saying, “But if stop the mafia from controlling illegal crime rings, the families of their employees will suffer.” Yeah, it’s true, but that’s life. You should’ve known what you were getting into before you got into it.
Anyway, what I really want is for Michael Robertson to fail. The man is an egotistic moron and we certainly do not need the man anywhere near computers. He’s the kind of man that would put Microsoft to shame. I hope he suffers brutal failure after failure. Then maybe he will go away and just leave computing alone.
well, I think this is one of the ‘abuse’ reasons MS fonts are no more online:
“You will need an Internet connection to download these modules from Microsoft’s Web site. ”
I have a simpathy for Lindows, they manage to keep Microsoft a little busier.
I emailed the guy at time about his article. He said the article was originally about Lindows. He said he tried both Lindows and Mandrake and was dreadfully sad at the results. Turned out he got to see Lycoris at Linux World Expo. Where I don’t know because I couldn’t find them.
Anyway He said they gave him a demonstration and a disk to take home. Obviously he liked Lycoris better
He said the article was originally supposed to be about Michael Robertson and his “Savior” type role to Linux on the Desktop in the form of Lindows. He said that’s why the art work was a penguin and a X’d out Windows screen…
Just thought I’d share.
Yes, it’s funny how Robertson rips on Windows, but his product is actually a bigger ripoff:
1. You lose your right to download after a year and your first $99.
2. The software is freely available elsewhere
3. The Lindows CD ships with almost NO software
4. On top of that, it’s not compatible with 99% of the off-the-shelf software out there
So you LOSE the benefits of both Linux and Windows by buying his ripoff product. (Rather than what he claims(ed): “the best of both worlds”.)
As the product currently stands, it has NO chance. If he shipped a CD full of software with it, I’d give him a better shot at making it.
It’s just another Linux distro. It seems that Robertson just hired some people to work on opensource Linux software such as Wine, to add additional features LindowsOS needs (such as for Wine being able to run popular Windows apps).
Other distros and Linux companies do the same thing, so I don’t see a problem with LindowsOS really.
I always see it like this: an extra developer paid to work on opensource software is always better for everyone.
I hope the Lindows market stabilizes. It’s good to see others attempt similar thngs to what I’m hoping to eventually achieve – some reasonable level of Windows compatibility. It seems that when anyone sticks their hand up & says they’re willing to have a go, all the critics come out of the woodwork and say “it can’t be done”, “MS is too pwerful”, “too much of the API is hidden”, I shake my head in disbelief and think “Whatever happened to the pioneer spirit?” or “And these are the open source advocates who want to take over the world?”.
I say put produce the goods or shut up.
The problem with LindowsOS is this: The product is almost unusable in its basic form. To me, that seems wrong and VERY differnet from other distros.
You’re going to want to do more than just look at the pretty desktop picture. So you go to download some useful software, but you pay $99 (soon to be $129) for that privilege EVERY YEAR. Even if all you want to do is download one otherwise “free” game.
No, it’s not just another distro.
Personalities aside, it is the new and average user that Lindows, Lycoris, ELX, etc. are trying to get. In that vein, Lindows does work within that context. It is well organized and the $99 for the Click ‘n Run Warehouse is worth it to many people, who need the ease of use – I mean *really* need ease of use. With the Microtel/Walmart deal, Lindows has a golden opportunity. Personally, I like Lycoris best among these distros, but the only problem I have encountered with it, trying to view it as a new user might, is (unless they’ve changed this) that there is no documentation provided, not even a little start up guide. This, to me, goes completely against the whole thrust of what they’re trying to do. But, what they do works well and the Microtel PC’s are pretty solid.
Again, personalities aside, I do think Robertson has dug somewhat of a hole for himself and Lindows as a whole by having to back off of the original Lindows concept so drastically. I have a particular hobby interest in seeing Linux succeed on the consumer level. So, rather than hope and pray that someone fails, I hope that there will be competition between these distros that will make them better – let the chips fall where they may. It should be especially interesting because some of the larger distros are edging toward the consumer (although perhaps more the corporate) desktop. It could be that Lindows will fail, but be remembered as a pioneer – how about that? 🙂
Lindows is likely to be just another dot bomb. In the mean time, it serves the purpose of transferring money from the pockets of wealthy VC’s to some programmers and IT workers (perhaps at the expense of some poor users as well).
8 Months ago I wrote in ( http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=454&offset=15&rows=30 ) the following:
<<You have to consider the type of company that would actually use the name “Lindows”.
They could be just stupid (they are already being sued by MS for trademark infringement). Or just happy to ride the wave of hype that the name will generate. Now if the excutives of a company are plain stupid, then you really should have second doubts about their products.
If you are in the Linux camp for ethical reasons or because you appreciate it’s technical qualities, you should ask yourself whether a hype driven business venture likely to be ethical and technologically focused.>>
Now the play on “Windows” has back-fired. They didn’t have a good technical idea, just a cheap idea of generating hype. So they’re just yet another company trying to make a better linux… why didn’t they just say so from the start? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
As for great business plans, this is the guy who started MP3.com made money by “giving away” copyrighted works. Well the company got sued to hell, but the CEO probably made a lot of money in the process. So yes, take the freebies, become a paid employee even, but don’t think it’ll last. This is a business based on greed, play by the rules — take the cash and run. That’s what the typical CEO would do.
I really don’t understand what market Lindows is tageting. First a change of target before the product is out is a very bad sign.
Second, who will pay 99$ for a year to download software that you can get for free or simply buy a more complete distro (Mandrake, Lycoris, RedHat…). Beside, I guess with a 56K connection (by far still the most popular Internet access!), downloading software is a pain!
Third targeting the “Home” desktop with Linux is a lost cost at this time: no software work out of the box.
So far, the best Business plan in my opinion is RedHat. Enter in a company by proposing cheap servers and services, make your customer happy and when they realize they pay to much for their desktop software, propose a cheaper integrated “Redhat Desktop” solution.
Lindows has a marketing agreement with Wal-Mart,the largest retailer in the world with a growing reach,offering a unique opprtunity to consumers to purchase computers with an “other than M$” operating system and software on an unprecidented scale.Lindows is also in legal despute with M$ which WILL cost them real money to resolve.
With the above in mind,one would have thought the Linux community in general would rally to support,”if only moral”, Lindows in its commercial and legal battle with M$ instead of your “bad blood”.
You and your fellow travellers only serve to put a grin on bill gate’s face.
My guess is Lindows is paying Wal-Mart to install Lindows, or at least doing it for free. It’s the tactic as MS, make user’s think they have no choice but to keep paying for upgrades on the OS that came with the box. My beef is not agianst Linux companies, but I think we could do with a better flag bearer than Lindows.
There are many people trying to rip-off Linux enthusiasts. I will not throw money at someone just because they wave a Linux or open source flag. I’m not interested in making a few executives wealthy under the pretense of improving OS alternatives.
I don’t use Lindows but I don’t really have anything against the company. They don’t have full windows compatibility like they said, but the modifications they have made to the OS and wine are available to the rest of the community under GPL. Many have said Linux is ready for desktop space, I am not going to criticize Lindows for trying to put it there, another commercial option is still another option. It’s not on my desktop, but I know people who are using it and like it. The type of non-hacker (paying) Lindows users are the type that appeals to commercial software vendors debating on weather or not to venture into Linux desktop space.
One of the biggest problems that I have with Lindows is not even the terrible security or expensive Click and Run membership. In terms of value for a desktop user with ease of use and access to documentation as priorities Lindows just doesn’t have it. With distributions like Mandrake or even SuSE out there that offer a huge amount of well integrated choice as well as almost idiot proof installation (especially on vendor built machines where the choice of components is restricted).
Lindows used up most of their momentum (and patience from the free software community) in their initial legal battles with Microsoft. This is what happens when the marketing precedes the technology on the list of priorities.
How can 15 of 20 news be about Linux? It’s not like many of them are revolutionary and Linux is just a small operating system compared to Windows and in many ways very similar. Both are bloat.
How about trying to post as many Non OS news about other operating systems? Like QNX app development (because most Linux news here is about the apps) or Ecomstation or BeOS or Syllable etc.
Eugenia, what’s up with the Linuxfocus?
> Like QNX app development
QNX is an excellent product sold at a reasonable price that does exactly what its supposed to. What is their really to talk about. They have moderate goals, and they’ve pretty much met them. QNX vs. Linxu conversations might be interesting since QNX and Linux disagree so deeply on strategy for the embedded market. The QNX apps though in general are very specialized. Are there enough people on OSNews to talk about car engine systems or oil pipeline systems or even complex alarm clocks? I think you can’t have the conversation is the crowd. We don’t all work in the same industry.
sabreman: Lindows has a marketing agreement with Wal-Mart,the largest retailer in the world with a growing reach,offering a unique opprtunity to consumers to purchase computers with an “other than M$” operating system and software on an unprecidented scale.
1) Walmart isn’t the biggest computer seller. It succeeded in a lot of things, but computers… it remains to be seen..
2) Walmart doesn’t showcase these at their stores, only their website. Certainly not the biggest store on the Net… nor even close to it.
In other words, Wal-mart’s deal is almost unsignificant. Go out and ask an average Joe, where they would buy a computer. I bet most of them wouldn’t say Walmart.
Beee: How about trying to post as many Non OS news about other operating systems? Like QNX app development (because most Linux news here is about the apps) or Ecomstation or BeOS or Syllable etc.
On the left, find a link that says “Submit News”. Use that. It works, believe me, it works. Probably the main reason why they aren’t articles here posted about the OSes you mentioned is because… well… nobody wrote them.
I’m sick of hearing about Lindows. If you want to run windows, then run windows. If you want to run linux, then run linux. Mixing the two will only be a receipe for disaster and leave a bad taste in your mouth. Hell, just dual-boot and run both OS.
You can always redownload the stuff you had downloaded before you did a reformat for example, even after your CnR account has expired.
With this situation though, broadband users will download as much as they can to able to download stuff after their account expires. So I think they will change the service to so that you will be able to download all the latest version for one year and after that, you won’t get access to the latest updates.
LindowsOS is also based on Xandros which is based on Debain, so you can always use apt instead to install new software.
I think it’s funny people think $99 is expensive. Especially when, for the price of buying Windows XP and Office XP you could get Lindows upgrades for years. Oh, and did you know that Microsoft is busy working on a yearly subscription fee? Think it’s less than $100? <laughing>
Who is Lindows market? This one is easier than falling down. It’s the people going into a place like Wallmart looking to buy a toaster oven, some clothes, etc. As they walk around they see a computer that will cost them a few hundred dollars and for <u>only</u> $100 a year (less than $10 per month) they can download a program to write letters, do e-mail, including sending pictures from their new digital camera they bought but don’t have a clue as to how it works without film.
These people see Windows computers and wondering why they have to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a computer only to have to go out and pay hundreds more for MS Office.
Now that you have written me off as a Lindows fan. I’ll let you know that I’m a Mac OS X and BeOS fan. Both of which I’ve paid a lot more for than I’ll ever be able to pay for Lindows. Let’s see. $2042 for my 800mhz iMac plus the $125 upgrade for Jaguar. That comes to about $2167. Subtract $499 (plus tax if you have sales tax in your area), and I could pay the $99 per year for about SIXTEEN YEARS!
$99 per year is expensive? I’m on the floor laughing my guts out.
People should use brand X Linux instead, you say. Fine. So who is going to install this for them? Who is going to show them how to download a program off the web and then install it for them? Mom and pop? Average Jane and Joe who work with Windows all day at work and really don’t have any technical knowledge of their hardware let alone how Linux works?
Sorry, but Lycos, Mandrake, RedHat, SUSE, etc., are just too hard for these people. They might buy it and then a few weeks, if they last that long, will have given up and gone back to Windows. And how soon do you think they will try anything to do with Linux again? It will be a long time.
So the next time you think Lindows doesn’t have an audience. Think about what your non techie friends and family are likely to be ABLE to use. And NO. $100 is not expensive unless you are cheap little (bleeps) that don’t want to pay for anything and probably built your computer from stuff you ripped off at work, or would if you thought you could get away with it.
I think they (MS) lost. Read this:
So Bill how long have you been working for Lindows. Lycoris is harder than Lindows. Nice propoganda. Good luck promoting your software bill. Or should I say Michael.
Right now if people try your software (lindows) theey get nothing but trouble. Not to mention 56k dowlads of something like OO would leave people to belive that this software is not for them at all.
Why is Lindows now ripping off Apple’s tabbed website design?
Why doesn’t Lindows at least include the basic applications a luser needs to get some use from the computer?
For example, if they bundled OO.o and Mozilla in a base installation they would be providing real value.
What would it take to reverse engineer CnR and undermine Lindows revenue model of selling something that’s normally free (not to mention free)?
What would be the net effect of providing the hapless Lindows users with such functionality?