Apple plans a contrarian celebration for the anniversary of the Windows 95 launch, unleashing a new operating system aimed at stealing customers away from Microsoft. Saturday, the official release date of MacOSX 10.2, also is the seventh anniversary of the day that Microsoft presented Windows95 to the world in the most extravagant product kickoff in computing history. Apple hopes to make a little history of its own with software it sees as capable of wooing Windows users to the Mac. Read more at C|Net.
Apple to Unleash Jaguar OS Upgrade
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
I have been eyeing Apple products ever since the first colourful towers came out. This is now a few years ago. Yet, in the meantime I bought three PCs (two laptops and a tower). Since I am already interested in Apple’s products I would be the ideal candidate for the “Switch” campaign. So I go to their web site and check out the reasons why I should switch:
1. The Mac… it just works: All my stuff on my PCs works as well. I added a printer, scanner, webcam – no problem at all.
2. It doesn’t crash: The days of crashing Windows have gone a long time ago. I have been running Windows 2000 since 1999. Right now I am on the Windows .NET Standard Server. No crashes. Of course, that stupid Creative driver brought down Windows 2000 a while back, but installing a new driver fixed that.
3. Simply the best in digital music: For my needs, and those of most people I know, the PC is doing just fine.
4. The missing link in digital photography: I don’t have a digital camera, but scanning in pictures works wonderfully.
5. Your own digital entertainment center: I don’t have a need for iDVD or iMovie… unfortunately…
6. Goes everywhere you go: Hey, I have had a laptop since 1998 and it came with me to Europe and back to North America a few times…
7. It’s built for the Internet: anything you can do on a Mac works just fine here. Not sure why PCs are less “built for the Internet”.
8. Office: Oh well… how many functions do you REALLY need. I wrote my first thesis with Office 6.0 and my second one with Office 97. No problems at all.
9. Works effortlessly with PCs: Same here.
10. It’s beautiful: I admit, I do have a Dell machine – but I like how it looks. Plus, it gives me a huge screen (1400×1050) that Apple doesn’t have. This is another concern of mine: from what I have seen, Mac OS X uses quite big and bold fonts. I like the slim trim of my Windows fonts. Maybe fiddling around could give me back some more screen real estate, but Mac apps just look “bigger”.
If that is all they can come up with, I am sorry to say that these are no real reasons to switch. None of them is big enough for me to fork over that much money.
Apple is very focused on the home entertainment, digital hub, digital lifestyle – whatever. You don’t hear anything about what it provides programmers, for example. Writing native applications in C, C++ or ObjC doesn’t sound too interesting (even though people like the NeXT tools).
The other day I read an article on Apple users. 62% of them are from the top 10% income range. Maybe that is why I am not an Apple user. I also don’t know why this statistics was presented as a positive reflection on the Mac user base. I would think that 62% or the 10% BOTTOM income range would be much better…
It like everything else in life. “You get what you pay for”
I personally run at home FreeBSD, Linux, MacOS X, Win2000, Win95, Darwin on Intel. I’m more of an OS nut than anything.
Mac OS X is the best looking and best development OS platform I have ever seen since a NeXTstep. And the hardware is the best designed. You want the best, you gotta pay baby…
>>Saturday, the official release date of MacOSX 10.2, also is the seventh anniversary of the day that Microsoft presented Windows95 to the world in the most extravagant product kickoff in computing history. Apple hopes to make a little history of its own with software it sees as capable of wooing Windows users to the Mac.<<
Actually, Apple had already made history on an OS release in 1997 when Mac OS 8 made its debut, topping Windows 95’s success by selling more than 1.2 million copies in a little over a week, which became the most successful software marketing campaign to date!
So basically Jaguar will be a sleeper in other words!
Mac OS X is the best looking and best development OS platform I have ever seen since a NeXTstep.
What exactly makes it so great as a development platforms? I am honestly interested in your opinion.
Mac OS X is the best looking and best development OS platform I have ever seen since a NeXTstep.
What exactly makes it so great as a development platforms? I am honestly interested in your opinion.
Uh.. It’s not that shit Linux?
Someone, the thing we OS X users are looking for is speed.
10.2 arrived today. I had it wipe out everything on my new (old) Quicksilver dual 1GB processor Power Mac, so I could start from scratch. I’ve set up mail and IE and checked the other usual applications that come with it.
Start-up time: start-up time has improved drastically. Maybe even half the time as before. If not half, then almost half.
Big Apps: So far, I’ve installed my big Adobe apps – Acrobat, Illustrator, GoLive, Photoshop and InDesign. One of the big OS X problems has been app launch time. Well, I opened them all once, but didn’t count that because, of course, the apps are initializing files, etc. and that always takes longer. So, when i opened them a second time, I was amazed by the difference. The responsiveness is great.
I haven’t had time to do anything else. I should say I do have a GForce Titanium 128 MB graphics card, so I’m taking full advantage of Quartz Extreme. The acid test for me will be when I install it on our eMac. It does have a 32 MB graphics card, so that’s good, but we’ll see how the system performs on a consumer Mac then.
Yes, if you go point-by-point you can’t really give a good reason to switch, but go down to the Apple store and try it out. “It just works” is a very different thing from “It works” on the windows side. You may have gotten lucky and have hardware that is very well-supported in the base Win2k/WinXP/whatever install, but from what I’ve seen, that’s not the norm.
I just made the switch from Windows/Linux to OSX 5 months ago or so, and there’s just something about it that just “feels” right. It’s not that there’s any one compelling thing that made me say “I have to get this!”, it’s a ton of tiny little things that I love about it that made me switch.
Here’s why I’d switch.
We bought a truckload of Apple machines at work. One of the machines had a hardware component fail. The OS made it known that there was a problem and then shut down. Once the faulty compontent was replaced, the machine booted right up without any loss of data.
I recieved a new Dell laptop at work about a month ago. There was something wrong with it, but the problem was intermittent and hard to identify. I installed Windows on it several different times in an attempt to troubleshoot the problem. Windows would blue screen and turn off the machine. However, upon reboot, the registry hive was corrupted on several occasions and one time the user’s directory was destroyed and a TEMP directory created; without my data or settings of course.
I installed Linux on the same machine, hoping for a kernel log to tell me what the problem was. After a while the machine hung. Upon reboot, my machine was still intact, no data was lost, and as I’d hoped, a kernel log told me what the problem was. Dell has yet to agree that there is a problem so I still have a broken laptop.
Of the three, Windows handled the faulty hardware problems the worst since it lost data. The other two were more fault-tolerant.
So why a Mac? Because they are well made machines and they run a superior operating system. In my experience, you are less likely to lose data with a Mac when something goes wrong.
A lot of people who run Windows are trying to make the switch to Linux because Windows just isn’t working for them; but then Linux is to far above their heads leaving them frustrated. In my opinion, OSX has all the power and benefits of running an OS like Linux, but with the simplicity required and sought after by those who are less technical.
One reason I am still hesitating is that I am a programmer. Of all the choices on the Mac so far I think ObjC (Cocoa) is the best (I know you can program in Java/Cocoa, but I am not sure if I want to go that route). Now, that leaves me with one problem: who else is gonna use ObjC? All my previous employers couldn’t care less about Macs. It is nice to hear stories about how “you got a truckload of Macs”, but it hasn’t happened anywhere around here. The only Mac store is closed on weekends (and I am in a city of 600,000).
I know some people don’t like the idea of .NET/C#. But at least it gives you some marketable skills. Finding a job is difficult enough nowadays, but finding one for doing ObjC stuff is impossible.
I know some people don’t like the idea of .NET/C#. But at least it gives you some marketable skills. Finding a job is difficult enough nowadays, but finding one for doing ObjC stuff is impossible.
You could also grab Borland’s Jbuilder, which runs on OS X – there are more Java jobs than VB today.
But i am learning .NET too – one, to see a new way to solve problems, and in hope the ports to Linux and OS X go well
In my opinion, its their ObjC development frameworks or what Apple calls them the cocoa frameworks. The foundation is basically from NeXT. You can develop so fast in their framework. It reminds of being an artist with code. You just grab what you need (paintbrush) and code (paint). Unlike other languages, like Visual C++, Visual Basic (where everything is thrown into a pot) junk everywhere. Java is real nice, similiar to ObjC, but its real type casted.
I wrote photoshop-light app on Mac OSX a few months ago in Cocoa (objC). It took the better part of an afternoon using their current cocoa frameworks. Its all there, just subclass what you want and you are ready to go. You don’t even author code when you are developing the interface, just tie your UI to your controllers later.
You’re asking why you should switch and for my opinion? For me, as a developer, if you want to experience a very well thought out system from head to toe, the IO drivers to the OS UI interface, give it a try, you will be impressed.
If you don’t care about authoring anything, then hey, keep buying Wintel, won’t bother me, I have a few myself. Microsoft will eventually incorporate it anyway on Service Pack 473
Most senior IT management knows the history of object oriented languages. Having ObjC and Java on your resume looks better than having just one object language down. Being exposed to better framework designs, will help you design better application in other languages.
You might not be able to get a job in your market with ObjC right now, but you can write the hell out of some apps with it. That type of experience is worth every penny.
Joe,
Read your article and I am really concerned about your bashing of Apple and boasting of MS. Please bash who ever needs to be bashed, but not on the unknown.
You like many others in the tech-news manytimes talk up the future of MS/Intel even before it’s delivered. Whenever MS/Intel do the crystal ball product announcements, you guys jump all over the unknown products as if it’s a done deal. Yet more often they come up short. In the mean time people who are in the market with real products get short changed as buyers hesitate to move in fear of not being compatible with MS or Intel.
You people did this with USB2. All the hype about it will be better than Firewire and look where we are now. I had many IT people tell me how Firewire is dead because of articles like this one. These people had never used Firewire nor understood what it could do for them. Firewire at 400mps is still faster and better than USB2’s 480mps. Yet for a number of years manufactures of computer products have hesitated for this unknown product Intel as going to make. How come you’re not talking up the next generation of Firewire?
You people are so bias for anything that Wintel does that when Apple comes out with real products you play the “MS/Intel will be doing better” card sometime in the unknown future. You talk up the “Media Center Edition” and yet you have no idea what it really contains. “Hewlett-Packard and other PC makers plan to create computers chock-full of digital and multimedia features”. What is this “chock-full” really mean, I bet you don’t even know the cost? What are you telling the potential computer buyer, wait until this fall for something better that you know nothing about!
Stop this sloppy reporting and call it on the facts. You’re not doing the consumer any good with this bad habit!
…
W
I must admit straight out that I am a Windows XP user, but oh how I wish I could go to a Mac/Mac OS X.2. Now the problem with this is that I am a gaming freak and have to keep Windows for all the games that I have installed, especially flight sims. From what I have seen Mac OS X.2 looks very sweet, just wish I could taste it instead of the sour/bitter taste Widows leaves:-) GO Apple, hope you sell 2 million copies. Peace.
can you run linux apps (x11 or console) or install via tarball on osx. if so then all i need is to wait untill apple and the ibm power4 chips team up and its “64bit OSX CITY”. If i still be “wintell” apps on my new 64bit POWERmac i run a vm.
oh if only my dream will come true?
oh well back to winxp “luna” (after looking at it so much i feel like i am on the moon)
“Think differnt.” Absolutely true about Apple products, and even more so when it comes to programming MacOS. I admit, old habits are hard to break and I’m a little resistent to learning a new way of coding. The downside I see to using Interface Builder and Cocoa, is after I design the UI and have IB output the headers and source files for me, if I wanted to add outlets and actions to a class at a later date and update the headers and sources, it doesn’t take into consideration the code that I type in by hand.
MS Visual C++ on the other hand allows me to use the wizards to quickly add member variables or functions, message maps and all that, and it doesn’t interfere with code I write by hand. If Apple can improve their dev tools to do the same I would be pleased.
To the people who replied to the “Why switch?” post, please take into consideration that there are many people who have Windows horror stories, and the same number of people will say they have no problems. That situation is also present with OSX, it’s not always “It just works”. Go to MacCentral’s forums and you will find many threads discussing problems the users have with OSX.
My personal opinion is there is no universal reason to switch that would be applicable to anyone in general. People who’ve used Macs all their lives can see the logic in switching quicker than a person who used Windows their whole life. OSX is NOT necessarily better, more stable, etc. than any other OS out there. It’s all relative to each individual’s past experiences. If I were ever to really switch (I’m only 1 foot in the grave right now) my only reason for doing so it to simpily get away from using Microsoft products, and absolutely no other reason.
… so whats up? I am a developer too and I own a Powerbook since December last year. I haven’t reud that I bought it.
What’s your problem with developing on OS X???
You have a Unix System under the engine hood, so you habe a POSIX api, make, gcc and all that stuff. You can use apple’s developer-tools, which are included for free (!), for programming with carbon, cocoa or cocoa-java. If you do not want this use JBuilder, Code Warrier or like me NetBeans. Yes I even have the Eclipse IDE up and running here. I you want pure JAVA development use javac at the commandline. If you like to do more lowlevel development get Real-Basic which is very equal to Visual Basic. If you want to do database programming get mysql, like I did, or you can even use oracle if you want a real database beast. If you want to do web-development, apache is included in OS X. Get PHP, J2EE, JBoss & Tomcat and you have all possibilities to do web development.
So… what is your real problem?
Maybe…you don’t like Mac’s and you are happy with yor PC?
OK – great! Don’t by a Mac and use your PC!
Ralf. (…astronished…)
“Now the problem with this is that I am a gaming freak and have to keep Windows for all the games that I have installed, especially flight sims.”
You might want to try “Virtual PC for Mac v5”. I haven’t used it myself, but I know a student that uses it to learn/run Visual C++ for his programming class, without any problems. From what I’ve heard from others, it does games just as well. You can find information about it here:
http://www.connectix.com/products/vpc5m.html
I’ve got to say that the article written by Joe Wilcox at c|net is the most one sided article I’ve read in recent times. This guy certainly lives on a one-way street. To quote:
“Many of Jaguar’s most touted changes are attempts to match existing Windows XP features, say analysts”
I could cry, Not because it is Merely untrue, but because it is Unfoundedly untrue. He made 10.2 look like some struggling wheelchaired cripple with broken spokes in a special olympics of OS’es. He mustered all the negative comments he could find to bash Apple. If I could demonstrate an great example of lazy journalism:
“Analysts expressed skepticism that Apple, with a less than 5 percent market share compared to more than 95 percent for PCs, would make significant inroads at Microsoft’s expense.”
First: As we all can agree here at osnews.com, all of the “more than 95% PCs” do *NOT* run windows, I don’t have the numbers, but what percentage of PC’s are running NON-Windows? If he want to make his article a MS vs. Apple argument, he shalln’t assume that all PC’s are running windows and use those numbers in his favor.
Second: I know that Apple only has about 3-5% market share, that never bothers me, even with numbers that are that low, does the author REALLY need to qualify the numbers with “less than 5%” and “more than 95%”. Can you turn knife *couter-clockwise* now please?
I know I can get testy about these issues, but such slanted “journalism” by a louse like Joe Wilcox just makes me sick.
Oh well, I think I’ll take my wheelchair’ed OS X.2 for a spin this night…
-Spider
Objective C is a pretty neat language but it’s a bit dated. It could need some touch ups, a more structured exception style would be nice also, even though some people are going to hate me for this, it would be nice with parameter overloading of methods. At least in GCC the parameter primitive types (id, int, whatever) are already encoded in the method signature and adding dispatch on the id (i.e. objc_get_class or whatever it’s called) would that really be so hard to implement? I mean message dispatch is already serialised so…
As to Cocoa…
It’s pretty dated by todays standard and could perhaps need a few touch-ups. And you can tell the Apple guys have been all over it with the NS*Manager classes strewn about.
There is not reason to go off like this. Most of the examples you mention are Java solutions. I can do that on any platform.
As the previous poster already mentioned, both ObjC and Cocoa are a bit dated. That is my problem. There is a lot more going on on other OSs. I am not a big fan of make, gcc, and co. either.
Ever tried Smalltalk? On Windows there is the coolest Smalltalk environment (Dolphin Smalltalk). On Macs you don’t have that much of a choice. And none of them offers the great integration with the Mac OS X/Aqua look that you get with Dolphin and Windows.
I just don’t see much improvement happening on OS X. C, C++ and ObjC, arguably even Java, are dated nowadays. Of course, they are in widespread use, especially the first two, but that doesn’t mean they offer the latest in programming languages design.
What I miss most about these languages is a garbage collector. I don’t want to worry about that. Not in this day and age. That’s why newer languages are more interesting.
Anyone know, if C# is gonna be on Mac OS X? What about .NET?
“The downside I see to using Interface Builder and Cocoa, is after I design the UI and have IB output the headers and source files for me, if I wanted to add outlets and actions to a class at a later date and update the headers and sources, it doesn’t take into consideration the code that I type in by hand.”
I believe you just have to drop your .h file onto your Interface Builder project window for it to be “aware” of any outlets/methods you may have declared by hand. Much safer than adding them later in IB then trying to do a file merge.
#1. If you want to take a crack at UNIX programming on the same machine without rebooting.
#2. iTunes. All PC MP3 library managers/MP3 players are mediocre at best. Heck they all suck. Nothing even comes close to iTunes. Even WinAmp’s getting worst and worst. The person(s) who made the Music Match UI don’t have a clue what programs should look like. I still can’t believe Apple choose such a crap app for their Windows version of iPod. But then again…
#3 If you like innovation, then it’s the only platform to go. PCs usually get them years later. Hence Firewire, USB, wireless, bluetooth and more…
#4 I know it’s lame but the cases on the G4’s are bad ass.
That’s all I can think off right now. There are probably a lot more too.
Well lets start out.
I am a network engineer. I have nice piece’s of paper from Cisco, Checkpoint, Sun, and Microsoft.
I have worked as an IT Director for a company with 600+ machines on the network and I also have build a nation wide internet backbone. I understand tech, and can build a linux box from scatch, program a router or build an Exchange cluster……
The reason I am typing this from my Mac is simple. It works. I have the power of Unix with a fantatic GUI. I still have a Win2K machine. It does not get much, if any use.
Apple in OS X has what is ideal. It works. No fuss. It just plain works. I used to bitch about the one button mouse and now I can careless. I am not sure why I need 2 buttons now.
To all those that bash Apple and OS X I say…try it for a few weeks. Take the time – change takes time. Find away to turn off your windows box and force yourself to use an OS X box for a week. At the end of that time you will realize that you do not want to go back. I let 2 of my die-hard Windows using freinds have one of my Mac’s for a few weeks. Both now are running G4’s as their everyday machine.
I know it is not the cheapest or the fast machine on the block but in the end the ability to get stuff done with out any issues is more important.
Windows is useable, KDE is usable, OS X is just plain right.
But, that is just my opinion. I could be wrong.
To all those that bash Apple and OS X I say…try it for a few weeks. Take the time – change takes time. Find away to turn off your windows box and force yourself to use an OS X box for a week.
See, that’s what most people say. But how would you go about doing that? Should I move to the Apple dealer in the next city just so that I can try out OS X for a week? I can’t afford buying one of these machines just to try them out. NOBODY I know owns a Mac. Which makes me wonder about market share, but let’s don’t go there.
Hence, that’s why I am here and try to start a dialogue. Often enough all you get is being called a Mac basher…
Can someone provide me the names and descriptions of any of these supposed “features” that Jaguar copied from Windows XP? Just off the top of my head I’d say Microsoft copied a lot of ideas from the original OS X, such as a new look (although Luna’s pretty damn ugly if you ask me), seamless network configuration, and integrated CD recording.
Apple’s are way to costly, I can get a top of the line PC for 799.00 CAN
>>Anyone know, if C# is gonna be on Mac OS X? What about .NET?<<
Well until we see .Net/C# make a dent in Java (which it hasn’t from what I heard from a friend of mine that is a Java developer), I doubt Apple will take .Net serious, especially since not even Microsoft knows what it’s really suppose to be!
You can lease a Mac for as little as (from advertised prices I have seen) $30 bucks a month. You do not have to buy it later like a car, just return it with everything they gave you.
Or find a school with a Mac Lab and ask for sit down time.
Gee, now that was not too hard to figure out now was it?
………
See, that’s what most people say. But how would you go about doing that? Should I move to the Apple dealer in the next city just so that I can try out OS X for a week? I can’t afford buying one of these machines just to try them out. NOBODY I know owns a Mac. Which makes me wonder about market share, but let’s don’t go there.
………
That is an issue. I my case, I had 2 Macs and lent one to a freinds.
They are really worth getting some hardtime on. For 90% of the people it will change the way they fell about Apple and OS X.
>> Apple’s are way to costly, I can get a top of the line PC for 799.00 CAN
Please see this thread:
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=1595
Well I just built my top of the line PC for about $800. And now to fill that empty gap, I think I will actually lease a mac. Almost forgot that option actually existed.
Thanks for shedding some light!
First off, I use Windows everyday at work and I spent over three years as a PC technician. So I’m not “joe sixpack”.
I’ve been using Non-Windows OS’s exclusively (at home) since about 96/97ish.
The past few years my PC was dual booting BeOS (primary) and Linux (flavor-of-the-month).
BeOS (imnsoh) is/was freaking OS perfection. But with the demise of Be Inc. the amount of NEW apps/hardware support was a little on the bleak side for my tastes.
Linux is OK . . . but I have a LOT of issues with it; I won’t go into specifics here (god forbid I piss off some Stallmanite and start a flame fest) though the list is comprised of ‘little’ things, it is a long list.
I figured I’d see how the other half lived and what all the hubbub about OS X was about.
I picked up a used iMac at a fair price, bought a copy of OS X.
OS X blows Linux away. It looks nicer. It runs better. Its easier. It has better apps.
OS X is no match for BeOS on anything exept App/Hardware support; which for now is enough.
Its slower than BeOS (what isn’t?). The hardware and software is more expensive than Windows/Linux.
Is it worth it?
I don’t know yet . . . but for now . . . yes. Just don’t count me in as a “Mac Faithful” yet. Maybe I have to use mine another year or so before the Reality Distortion Field takes effect? 😉
>> Apple’s are way to costly, I can get a top of the line PC for 799.00 CAN
So that would be approximately $450.00 US right? It sounds to me like Walmart specials are all that’s available in Canada.
So that would be approximately $450.00 US right? It sounds to me like Walmart specials are all that’s available in Canada.
Are you surprised? With the current economy and job market one cannot afford anything else but a PC from the largest company around…
…….
BeOS (imnsoh) is/was freaking OS perfection. But with the demise of Be Inc. the amount of NEW apps/hardware support was a little on the bleak side for my tastes.
…….
Hey I loved BeOS. I bought every vesion and a ton of apps (Gobe Productive, etc.).
It was the fastest damn OS out there (Tho, Amgia was damn good to.)
However, it is dead and gone. It will not run on most of the PC hardward I have without being hacked. So thats that.
If you would like to try a damn fast Linux disro then try Gentoo. http://www.gentoo.org. Lots of work but screams. Evey with KDE.
Still, I use my 2xG4 for everyday use now. Really cannot see using anything else.
I am all about people telling how they see things, but if you write news you need to be objective, which Joe was not. His facts were slanted toward saying OS X is garbage get XP. Now I am fine if he feels that way, but he should say that right off the bat.
The intergration of ichat, other is not the same as the .net stuff. i use XP (and OSX) and I have not signed up to the .net . Do you trust 1 company that has serutiy issues all over there software with you private information?
There is a difference, and if you have nto used both operating systems for any length of time you would not know it. that is were Joe is at. Does not us OSX so he thinks OSX Sux and XP rox.
IMHO
Charles
Right now the best deal on a new Mac is the eMac – it has the G4 , 32 MB video card to support Quartz Extreme and nice, 17″ display. And, it’s over a thousand dollars, so buying a Mac is a big investment.
I can’t stand CRTs. No matter how high the refresh rate is, I always see a flicker. Maybe that’s because I have used a laptop for so long. So the only next-best option is an iMac, and that sets me back a bit more.
However, that’s not even my biggest worry. There are a few things on the “Windows horizon” that sound really cool (.NET, C#, Yukon, etc). I am not sure where Apple wants to go. They never say anything. They seem to be happy where they are right now. On the other hand they want us to switch. I haven’t seen much advertising for OS X either, maybe that’s gonna change now that OS X is mostly done.
I wrote the author of the Cnet article. He sent back a nice Email, and I respect the guy. I he think is trying to push Apple ahead in his mind. Who knows…
I remember when Win95 was released, Mac-heads were sneering about MS taking xx years to catch up with MacOS, and that Win95 wasn’t even close to usability of MacOS. Apple is now “unleashing” Jaguar on the 7th anniv of Win95. Now I am fan of neither MS or Apple, but this is the stupidest marketing campaign I have heard. To me, it sounds like Apple is admitting their defeat and implying their products’ inferiority to MS’. Hello, Mr Job, please wake up, how much better is your product if it takes 7 (!) years for you to catch up with your competitors so-called inferior copycats, and celebrating it’s (win95) birthday by launching your product???
First off, the only person who has suggested that the launch of Jaguar was scheduled to coincide with the anniversary of Windows 95 is Joe at CNet. Second, if you think that OS X is “catching up” to the wonder that was Windows 95, you’re smoking crack.
“PC makers plan to create computer hybrids chock-full of digital and multimedia features.”
Digital hub anyone?
“But Mail lacks many features that e-mail users working with Windows XP’s Outlook Express 6”
Does this include that feature of autoforwarding a virus to every contact in your address book?
This just has an unneeded negative atitude in the article. has the writer even used jaguar(i havn’t), but reports from all over are praising this upgrade for speed and features, maybe the writer should have done his homework.
I’m going to get either a 17″ iMac, or a dual-proc PowerMac, running OS X 10.2 (or, whatever point release is there when I scrape up the cash.)
This is an entirely personal decision, based on my needs and desires. Do I care if anyone else buys one? Nope. Do I care if all computer users suddenly rise up in righteous indignation and throw off the shackles that are Microsoft? Nope.
It all boils down to this: I’m tired of doing web database programming in Linux, and having to reboot into Windows in order to work on graphics. Having one machine, one operating system able to accommodate me in my work is well worth it for me.
If you think you want to switch, and can justify it to the most important person, *you*, go for it. If you can’t, don’t.
There’s no reason to belittle anyone for their choice of computing platform or operating system. If they can get what they want accomplished out of it, that’s all that really matters. Everything else is pointless chest-thumping and excess geek-testosterone
Lets have a little tribute here to the operating system ppl seem to love nowdays… windows.
Windows is the fastest clustered SQL server, its the basis for the best games console, its the basis for debatably the best phone and pda systems, its an extremely popular web server (apache and IIS), it seemed to inspire KDE and gnome, it was the first operating system to have protected mode kernal drivers (WDM), it was the first OS to offer < 1 ms audio latency, it was the first operating system to offer pixel and vetex shaders (it developed them with nvidia and ati), it supports opengl despite haveing DX which is better (sorry guys it is nowdays even the big JC says so), it has plent of AWESOME games thanks to DX, it stays up for weeks, its easy to use, it contains all the base functionatliy an OS needs and api hooks, it has the worlds best development playform(s), and it runs nativily on x86 !
Coolest operating system ever
Macos has nothing on it. (but at least its catching up)
Glenn
Just because soething is widely used does not mean it is the greatest.
lots of people drive Fords but most would think a Ferrari would be better.
So your saying i shouldnt have mentioned apache on windows being popular… so your saying apache is crap and slow?
All my points were on how good windows is not how many ppl use it.
Run a benchmark if the mac a ford the PC is the Ferrari.
🙂 Glenn
Btw the “everyone loves windows” comment was ment to be taken witha grain of salt
Glenn
Well first Apache is apart of OSX DUH!.
Second if you do not like the ferrari, then use a Rolls Royce. I agree PCs are faster Not the OS 😛
Well first Apache is apart of OSX DUH!.
Yeah i know
.. im just sick of everyone saying osx and linux is leading the OS race.. they arent in the real world. Windows is and through good reason to. Linux and OSX dont come with any real enterprise functionatlity out of the box compared to the depth of windows. There is way more to an OS than if the GUI has animations.. way way way more.
🙂 Glenn
PS i hate the car analogy.. cause mac ppl allways claim the macs a ferrari and the pc a ford.. this is so stupid no only are pcs faster u can spend a lot more on them 2. Why not go out and get a 4x Xeon that looks spic as .. if anything, thats going to be the hotest “car” u can buy.
Well, if Macs are Ferraris then that explains why the new PowerMacs are so LOUD.
Personally, it’s going to take more than a 10.1 to 10.2 version upgrade to get me interested – Apple still has to do something about the ‘$1000+ for the hardware’ problem
I don’t feel compelled to spend that much money on something that offers me nothing I don’t have already except for a bunch of anti-MS/anti-Linux shit.
If you like it, great. But for me, it isn’t very compelling at all.
i emailed the cnet article to some of my students and they laughed out loud at how shamelessly one-sided it is.
Which reminds me of BMW. A lot of people seem to complain about the price of BMW cars. However, some board member of BMW once said that they keep charging more than other brands because they think the brand is worth it. BMWs sell like hotcakes. Everyone has one, or so it seems.
Apple is similar. They can ask a higher price because people are mostly willing to pay for it. I guess they must be happy with it.
The only weird thing is that BMW now comes out with a 1 series that is more affordable. I guess they want more people to buy their cars. Maybe that’s the iMac (not eMac) of cars?
Glenn you seem like a nice guy, but how is the UNIX part of OSX not enterprise freindly, for LINUX for that matter. Thought IBM was using LINUX. Big Blue is still Big right?
Carsokay the Ferrari was a bad idea, I was trying to draw attention to the fact if something is wide spread does not meanit is the best. I could of named 1/2 dozen car companys but Ferrari is well known. had no relation to performance. Ford has the GT40 coming out 550 HP of man Lovin! Still People would still rather have a Ferrari. get the point
Last Joe is actually a MAC user, so he told me. He defended he article in his Email to me. And was polite, all that I can ask
Have been reading the WebObjects list and it is the same old story over there. Some guy is asking about the future of WebObjects, especially on Windows. This uncertainty about WO has been around for as long as Apple has had it. Apple just doesn’t seem very interested in the enterprise market. They have one of the best application servers out there but it seems they just don’t care much about it.
Xserve is a good attempt, but it is only half-hearted. The same goes for OS X Server.
Apple, unlike NeXT, is a consumer company. I wonder why they still keep WO around and don’t sell it off to someone else who is more interested in keeping it alive and flourishing.
…price/performance apple vs pc.
comparable features PC vs new iMac.
Which one costs 300 dollars a year in electricity?
From what I understand it was a good showing for a new U1 server. Every objective review said price point was fair and speed was good. So how is the a 1/2 hearted?
Someone, Sony is Steve Job’s ideal of a company and what he’s trying to do is try to make Apple (and perhaps in conjunction with Pixar) the American version of Sony. So, it is almost entirely consumer oriented. Except for a couple of big things – the Unix factor and the server entry, which is a good one to start with. I guess those two things are tied together really. But Apple is doing anything but standing still – Jobs is on an all-fronts attack – Unix, servers, education, high end, low end, digital hub, thumbing his nose at Microsoft, online services. In fact, I don’t believe there has ever been as much action at Apple than there is right now. It’s just in a different direction than in the past.
Microsoft has plans that are over arching and really big, Apple is on a completely different track. it’s a wise move, on the wgole, i think. Apple can’t compete directly against MS. The Switch campaign – Jobs probably figures it can’t hurt – maybe it will raise Apple’s market share a few hundredths of a point – it does mean more Macs being sold.
I like all OS’s, all have there strengths and weaknesses. It is good that there is an Apple Computer, good there is Linux and I wish so much Be was still around. Computing would lose so much if there were not different OS’s. If you’ve never had a Mac and you can afford an iMac, I’m sure you will enjoy it very much. Macs have always been fun to use.
Jonathan: I personally run at home FreeBSD, Linux, MacOS X, Win2000, Win95, Darwin on Intel. I’m more of an OS nut than anything.
I’m confused, how do you run OS X on Intel machines?
Ranger Rick: You may have gotten lucky and have hardware that is very well-supported in the base Win2k/WinXP/whatever install, but from what I’ve seen, that’s not the norm.
How sure are you it isn’t a norm. the people who have problems with PCs are more vocal than those who don’t. Just like in Indonesia. Everyone in the West (well, almost everyone) thinks that Indonesia is a mostly Islamic fundamentalist country, but actually, it has a higher amount of silent secular/moderate Muslims.
Besides, one pattern I usually see in people having problems with PCs is people who buy them from brands unknown, and ussually go for the cheapest parts.
Camel: So why a Mac? Because they are well made machines and they run a superior operating system. In my experience, you are less likely to lose data with a Mac when something goes wrong.
What was the component that went wrong in your Mac? I’m sure it isn’t the hard disk. I’m betting my money (okay, only some of it) that the problem with the Dell was caused by the hard disk prematurely dying.
arbour42: You could also grab Borland’s Jbuilder, which runs on OS X – there are more Java jobs than VB today.
If you mean Visual Basics, maybe. And maybe not. A lot of companies I have seen uses custom VB software. java is mostly used in the server room. Maybe back in the hype, this was true.
W: Firewire at 400mps is still faster and better than USB2’s 480mps.
The only benchmark between FireWire and USB2 is between two external Maxtor hard disk, one uses FireWire and another uses USB2. But little did any of use knew that Maxtor didn’t maximize the bandwidth. Why? It would cause a lot of big R&D money.
W: You talk up the “Media Center Edition” and yet you have no idea what it really contains.
A lot of people, especially from the press, had already tried it. They had some problems, but *all* of them says it is promising. It is the same way the press got Jaguar faster than normal consumers.
Ralf.: so you habe a POSIX api
Windows NT had implemented 60% of the POSIX API.
Ralf.: make, gcc
A lot of developers prefer the stuff from Intel or Microsoft, because they are faster and produces faster code.
imaginereno: You might want to try “Virtual PC for Mac v5”.
It runs Windows very slowly. And it doesn’t properly support DirectX stuff.
Someone: Anyone know, if C# is gonna be on Mac OS X? What about .NET?
As soon as Ximian releases Mono 1.0, there should be a OS X port.
Ronald: #2. iTunes. All PC MP3 library managers/MP3 players are mediocre at best.
If I really need something that is really good, I would load up Virtual PC for Windows, boot up BeOS and use SoundPlay. That beast iTunes anytime.
Besides, you still haven’t say how iTunes is better than Winamp. Winamp 3 is really nice, it is just a bit unstable (no more unstable than iTunes 2.0 when just released).
Bascule: Can someone provide me the names and descriptions of any of these supposed “features” that Jaguar copied from Windows XP?
Read the article.
Charles: The intergration of ichat, other is not the same as the .net stuff. i use XP (and OSX) and I have not signed up to the .net
Integration between iChat and the OS is much more than in XP and Windows Messanger? The only feature iChat has that XP doesn’t is that it could hide the nicks of the user and use the real name.
Someone: I can’t stand CRTs. No matter how high the refresh rate is, I always see a flicker.
That’s only with low ends. The high ends (which cost around the same as LCDs) don’t have flicker.
Charles: Well first Apache is apart of OSX DUH!.
The version *bundled* with OS X is ridden with security problems, is slow, and old.
siggy: i emailed the cnet article to some of my students and they laughed out loud at how shamelessly one-sided it is.
Weird, there is much more one-sided-ness in articles posted on Apple’s “Latest News” ticker.
Charles: Glenn you seem like a nice guy, but how is the UNIX part of OSX not enterprise freindly, for LINUX for that matter. Thought IBM was using LINUX. Big Blue is still Big right?
This is in the back end. Microsoft is loosing space in the back end. OS X is not gaining much in the back end. Just because it is UNIX doesn’t mean it is enterprise friendly.
Evan: Which one costs 300 dollars a year in electricity?
A PC takes less energy than a light bulb. And if you are asking for something *comparable* with the iMac, the iMac and the PC would both use the same amount of energy.
Jay: Macs have always been fun to use.
Macs may be fun for some bubbly 5 year old, but for most non-Mac users here, nah.
Ya know how there is 2 versions of osx.. and many many versions of windows? gee i wonder what features the more expensive ones have? maybe we should look it up?
It if funny that many of you think about Windows or Mac OS as enterprise equipment. All I can say:
I work for a large company that does enterprise development only. We are one of the worlds largest software companies for enterprise software. Even Microsoft or Apple are our customers for their enterprise software systems. So – I know what I am talking about. I am working in a team that does a prototype development for the automobile industry. Thats a business where a unplanned downtime of 10 minutes costs alot of money. You even can not compare this case to, let’s say, the Amazon webshop isn’t available for 10 minutest. If this happens the customers buys their books 10 minutes later – if our system is down, some 1000 employees are affected in their work and the company isn’t able to deliver the usual quantity of cars at that day. So I know what I am talking about. Now, don’t think that any of the stakeholders in that business think about to use Windows, Linux or MacOS for that systems. Go to Tandem Nonstop Systems (now a HP subsidiary) or look at IBM’s zServer (=OS390). That are the machines an OSes that are used for enterprise computing – anything else is playing around with computers, but no real enterprise business.
Ralf.
Dosent amazon run windows these days? or maybe not anyway both Unix and Windows run these type of solutions. I havent seen any enterprise tools other than say web objects (thats part of a complete enterprise solution), for osx. The tools for UNIX cost $$$ for a clustered sql 99.999% uptime server.. so its not like its linux and its free.
Using mac osx in a managed desktop inside an enterprise solution for your customers or even doing basic database web serving dosent count.
Enterprise solutions provide high level management of these base technologies.
I wonder, what company do you work with. Most automobile companies use Windows NT on their workstations, with an exception of Ford. Enterprise doesn’t mean one big gigantic supercomputer mainframe running behind the scenes. It also have to do with workstations. Windows is still top there. Linux is being picked up much more faster than Mac OS there, not only because it cheap, but there are companies that understand the enterprise.
So remember, enterprise isn’t 1000 users dirrectly using one mainframe from HP. It is workstations connected to a server. Most of the time, the server is UNIX-based.
1) Fastest SQL server – yes, if you rip all the useful functionality out and let it work on wimpy problems, yes, you can almost directly apply P4 clock cycles to SQL transactions, however, over in the real world…
2) Extremely popular web server – hmmh, I thought netcraft had a different story…
3) KDE and GNome suck. Why would anyone ever brag that their setup inspired KDE and GNome?
4) I don’t know what to make of “protected mode kernel drivers”. Most operating systems do run their drivers at the kernel level, which is unfortunate. QNX is a exception – drivers are run as user level programs. Only the kernel and the basic services a kernel provides are run at kernel level. WDM drivers were simply a (finally) well designed approach to having a driver binary run in both a 2K kernel and a 9x kernel, so that those bloody consumer products chaps only had to write one driver and it would support their flagship OS and their ball and chain OS all at once. Of course, it still didn’t work right… sound drivers that are “WHQL’d” for NT on my box work perfect. The very same WDM driver installed on 9x on the same box is pure crap.
5) Stays up for weeks — I assume you never dip into the pool of software and never update drivers and never update security flaws on your system. Every security update I haev received from MS so far requires a reboot. About one per week through the Windows Update feature.
What I will say about Jaguar — it stays up and stays up (I’ve run it for 2 weeks and do many heavy compiles per day on a ancient 450MHz box – 270 files, 14 minutes/build). Eventually it will need some patch from Apple and it will need a reboot, just like 2K, so I guess there is no real advantage you may say. But there will be less “reboot required” patches for it, because Unix folks don’t suck up performance needy features into the kernel as haphazardly as MS. Most patches can be applied to a daemon, and the daemon restarted. Doesn’t happen that often on windows.
Jaguar feels “safe” to me, and I am still quite wary of even the NT based OSs. “safe” for me is that I can do everything the box of the OS says it will do, and the system will remain stable. I was almost convinced Windows had this until a recent movie trailer viewing session in which IE crashed, corrupted my XP registry, and made the system as unstable as a 98SE install…
Now, I still run a 2k machine at the moment, because I am waiting for my HW VPN box to arrive… then finally maybe I can switch to a Mac/BSD setup so I can rid myself of Windows once and for all… not that 2k isn’t bad, but it just isn’t “as good as” Jaguar.
One more thing — you speak of acceleration, and you may be correct about DX. DX totally rocks for games, but games are the problems with PCs. PCs have all this go fast as hell hardware patched on, but there is no true forthought into the reliability of all this stuff. There are corner cases out the wazzu on PCs. Apple makes a very large effort to figure out corner cases in their hw, and when they find them, they fix them or compensate for them in their sw, and this is something MS will never be able to do, and probably why the most important projects will still be done on solid Unix workstations where the vendor “does it all”. Well, until MS comes out with their own PC (which could happen, ala XBOX with 512MB of RAM).
Glenn: Dosent amazon run windows these days?
Actually, it was quite big news (especially on the Linux press) when Amazon announce it was moving from Windows (and some version of UNIX) to Linux. (Most of the press had been negative anti-Amazon press.
2) Extremely popular web server – hmmh, I thought netcraft had a different story…
Netcraft says Apache is top. It also says Windows NT is top. Live with it. Sure, Linux is inching its way to be top in the web server market, but its not there yet.
Most patches can be applied to a daemon, and the daemon restarted.
If the patches are applied on deamons used a lot of applications, it is as good as a restart.
Well, until MS comes out with their own PC (which could happen, ala XBOX with 512MB of RAM).
This would never happen. Microsoft makes money out of XBOX from developers’s royalties. They had to make their own hardware because no other sane company would do that – where’s the profit?
Besides, if you want a real stable rock solid hardware solution which won’t conflict with other hardware and the software, I suggest you get an IBM or an x86 SGI. If you are making your own machine, make sure you get the best. I mean, if you are buying RAM, don’t buy an unbranded Korean RAM, get Corsair, Crucial or Mushkin.
>The very same WDM driver installed on 9x on the same box is pure crap.
WDM is the first type of driver at kernal level with memmory protection. This means the driver cant overwrite the os memmory this is why it dosent matter how many games or times i manage to crash my wdm audio software i never .. ever yet have had to reboot. The audio keeps on comming
Yes this type of driver is a big deal
and the reason it dosent work well on 9x is because its not win2k and cant manage it properly.
Restarting windows has been reduced heaps in winxp, maybe u should try it.. i recently changed from ACPI to non ACPI mode and it required just 1 reboot! it reisntalled the mboard all the way to my sound drivers and worked without having to restart it again at all! Very cool, i havent had many updates to XP via windows update.. yeah thats why its been up for weeks without a reboot.
I think the lie that “macs just work” (my friends dont allways!) is shown here in its true colours.. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&thread…
“Apple makes a very large effort to figure out corner cases in their hw, and when they find them, they fix them or compensate for them in their sw, and this is something MS will never be able to do,”
U sooooooooooo have to be kidding? MS provides heaps of fixes for specific software that dosent work after a windows upgrade and allways have. Its awesome everything works on my windows box and i try lots of software. The reason MS is so big is because of backwards compatability … hell i can run a DOS session so fast!
OSX has a ditch and upgrade path from os9 .. unless u want to cripple your OSX app and use the old style library linkings. The path from win3.1 to winxp has been much more compatable and incremental, much better for real users. (yes there were library problems)
Aamazon .. ok sorry but yeah we all know win2k sql is being used now for 99.999% uptime solutions. Its new though so its not as common as Unix .. but it is doing well.
I don’t talked about the front-ends. The front ends of our applications are windows and mac programs. But this is only the presentation layer of large systems. There is no businesslogic build in the client. I also don’t talk about terminal (ascii-based) applications. I talk about the backends, where the logistic businesslogic is processed. The server applications that control the operations of the manufactoring-plant. The beast that does the background processing and data warehousing. As you said: Therse Systems are often (commercial) Unix based. And it is like stated before – these systems uses payed OSes, because the customers needed support and short reaction times and guaranteed 99.9% uptime. The can not search newsgroups, google or haunt for kernel-patches if their systems is in rouble. I thougt, if we are talkung about Win, Lin or OS X as enterprise solution we are talking about the server not the client.
Ralf.
Ralf.
“Doesn’t Amazon run Windows these days?”
My browser reports:
Stronghold/2.4.2 Apache/1.3.6 C2NetEU/2412 (Unix)
Glenn writes: “it was the first OS to offer < 1 ms audio latency”
This is utter bullshit. I have YET(!) to see an implementation in ANY flavor of windows that can support this claim of yours. I have been a computer based musician for at least seven years now and have several friends that have dedicated daws of both Mac and PC side. You can bet they (and I) spend top dollar and plenty of time tweaking the OS to get the least latency. And none (NONE of about 20 people I know) have achieved < 1ms latency on EITHER their Macs (OS 9) or their souped up dual Wintels optimized til Kingdom come. You’d better back that claim up with some hardware config or get off your high horse. And don’t EVEN tell me a TDM system because all the Audio is rendered on the Core cards…
BTW, I just got back from a wildly successful trip to the Apple Store here in ChicagoLand and there was a turnout of over 3000 people, and yes, I wasted 4 hours waiting in line to get 10.2 for $115 and plenty of free sh*t (including a nice T-shirt) and 10% off EVERYTHING in the store (They sell plenty of non-Apple product for those who haven’t been inside an Apple store).
Off to play “catch-up” with Windows, I mean install 10.2…
=)
-spider
Mine works at < 1ms for short periods of time.. there are better cards (mines an echo) and better computers (mines a ath 700) so id say it works. Not usably though but other ppl are leaving it set on 1.5 ms latency on hammerfall and other cards.. there are many cards to give < 5ms performance now it seems.
What latency u get with sonar with wdm?
>>It also have to do with workstations. Windows is still top there.<<
Actually that could be challenged! In all my years working in military and the space industry, I have yet to see Windows NT go beyond office productivity, whereas I have seen in every control center/workshop Sun Microsystems hardware/software and/or (way back in the day) DEC’s VAX/VMS combination!
I would say Sun Microsystems has the workstation market from my experience!
OS X core audio has 1 ms throughput latency.Lots of good features.
The new 10.2 contains drivers with tantalizing names like AppleFWAudio, AppleMLANAudio, and AppleMIDIFWDriver.
Which means firewire audio devices (spdif , yamaha mLan,etc), midi keyboards,etc. will have improved input,output, stability.
It also has core midi.
Someone, I forgot to mention, if you hate CRT’s, the 14″ iBook is a great choice. It’s affordable by Apple standards, has a beautiful screen. It is only a 700 MHz G3, but I just installed 10.2 on ours and am stunned by the speed. The 14″ model edges towards “desktop replacement”, with nice big keyboard, large screen and lots of room for your wrists, etc.
… but this appears to actually be a misunderstanding on your part:
“WDM is the first type of driver at kernal level with memmory protection. This means the driver can’t overwrite the os memory this is why it dosent matter how many games or times i manage to crash my wdm audio software i never .. ever yet have had to reboot. The audio keeps on comming
”
From the data I accumulated on reading through google’s search returns, WDM hardware drivers still run at kernel level with kernel privileges, but filter drivers run as programs, and are run in their own process space. The kernel level driver is *still* the component that is shuffling large amounts of data flow around the system (but is not doing complex codec decodings), and it can still corrupt or crash the system.
You are crashing codecs, not the audio kernel driver, my friend…
In addition, the fact that your codecs crash continuously is definitely a sign that all is not right in Windows land. If WDM is so sure fire, it should be a snap to debug vs. debugging a true kernel level driver, why aren’t the developers of your drivers not developing more robust sw? It must be hard….
And as I said before, Windows is NOT the first with drivers in user space. That would be QNX that has been around since eternity (or the i386, ever how you count that).
“”Apple makes a very large effort to figure out corner cases in their hw, and when they find them, they fix them or compensate for them in their sw, and this is something MS will never be able to do,”
U sooooooooooo have to be kidding? MS provides heaps of fixes for specific software that dosent work after a windows upgrade and allways have. Its awesome everything works on my windows box and i try lots of software. The reason MS is so big is because of backwards compatability … hell i can run a DOS session so fast! ”
The key word here is sw vs. hw. Read. Understand. Then and only then, debate. A debate you will never win for MS. Windows has no protection from hw drivers, and MS absolutely depends on cheap third party hw. MS sw is admittedly not that bad, but it will never compete in uptime on a single box solution to a Unix solution — never. Apple *knows* hw, MS doesn’t. All they (MS) have is a nice internal structure and slick APIs. The real driver work is done by third parties. WHQL has brought up the base standards of what is “good” in third party hw land, but it is far from as good as any integrated sw/hw vendor.
Please point us to single server solutions with 99.9999% uptime running Windows. You are full of it… it doesn’t happen. Only IBM & Sun can claim that because they have redundant in-chassis systems to step in and take over the failing part’s place. I don’t even claim a single Mac box can obtain that…
Now clustering is a different point, but now we are talking multiple boxes, and the problem space also changes, and competitors that can do just as well.
If I am recommending a OS for basic fileserving and mail, I will always pick last years hw and Linux or a real Unix box. This guarantees uptime, where it doesn’t on Windows. Last year’s hw is more than likely guaranteed to be less reliable than this year’s hw.
Finally, this hw upgrade craze can hurt both MS and Apple in the end. MS lives vicariously through hw upgrades, and Apple directly. I am wondering how long the eco system of recycling hotspots can survive the speed drive, before people start taking notice and demand much higher quality desktop systems and much better software that runs efficiently on old hws.
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/evaluation/overview/2000/fastfacts.asp
eg. Using SQL Server 2000, Keylime Software built a database capable of accommodating 25–50 gigabytes of new raw data per day (over 1.1 terabytes in aggregate) while still ensuring a 99.99 percent level of availability.
Credit Suisse First Boston recently ported its custom risk management application from Sun hardware and software to Microsoft server products. The results have included 99.993 percent uptime and performance that is six times faster than the previous version.
Hmm i see one big client is Victoria’s secret, that would be worth hacking into.
Anyway.. if u want to find more youll have to look yourself. BTW these same windows 2k servers work great in the most common LAN network, video streaming , application serving as well as IIS and SQL. Windows comes with it all. Not just 1 or the other, or 5 different solutions from differnet vendors banged together (ie samba, apache, postgresSQL, somevideostreamer, some java application server.)
From this page http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:a6708aeRgIMC:www.microsoft.com…
How do you make a driver dependable?
By implementing Memory Management
Memory Management employs a number of tests:
(Special) Pool tagging
*******Kernel-mode component writes outside of its memory allocation*******
Driver process fails to release memory – a leak
Driver Verifier
Tests for specific sets of error conditions
Also see the “Kernel-Mode Write Protection” reference in part of http://www.microsoft.com/hk/windows2000/guide/server/features.htm
Now lets be clear this is KERNAL MODE WRITE PROTECTION, windows is the FIRST operating system ever to have kernal mode drivers that are memmory protected (a feature of x86 achitecture btw).
No they werent “codec” errors.. it was sonar crashing because well sometimes it does esp when its set on very small latency and im dragging and dropping (rearranging the audio fx in real time) (cant do that in logic or cubase anyway!). Sonar seems just as stable as logic and cubase though.
Everytime ive crashed serious sam or Sonar i restart the app immediatly and it works straight away. This is because of wdm.. win 98 would develop leaks over time .. or wouldnt let me restart the game sometimes.. WDM has brought the stability and speed of win2k. I pity those with operating system drivers that have to be in non mem protected kernal mode to get the speed.. and sacrafice
reliability.
Sorry linux, sorry Qnx, sorry Irix, Sorry macosx.. this is windows only so far.
Glenn
Apple *knows* hw
Bah whatever .. the Apple USB audio device dosent work properly even in jaguar.. nice work apple.
Last year’s hw is more than likely guaranteed to be less reliable than this year’s hw.
Actually due to driver issues id say it would be more reliable…If u buy from apple u allways get last years hardware specs anyway so thats part of the reason Macs are slow but reliable (No AGP fast write for exaample).
Windows has no protection from hw drivers, and MS absolutely depends on cheap third party hw.
Actually it does thats what i was talking about.. and for the first time protection of KERNAL MODE drivers.. how very very cool. What are u saying youd rather MS license all windows hardware? That would suck.. i like third parties, allways have.
99.9999% uptime i thought it was the 5 nines not 6
Anyway yeah i was talking about clustered servers.. cause no real hardware gives the 5 nines (see how the sun severs with 5 nine certification DONT actually achieve that because of the hardware anyway). In order to REALLY get 5 nines ya need to be useing a clustered server… like what comes with windows.
Glenn
Glenn,
Are you seriously about to tell me that Windows is more reliable than Solaris and other such major/industrial strength UNIX systems? I think you have a major screw loose!
Posting stuff from Microsoft’s own website won’t get you any brownie points either. Helk speaking of which, aren’t they still running the backend of Hotmail on Unix servers to this very day?
Let’s not forget that Unix has 70% of the webserver market, Windows 30%! And most proprietary Unix servers are getting replaced by Linux, not Windows!
enuff said!!!
Are you seriously about to tell me that Windows is more reliable than Solaris and other such major/industrial strength UNIX systems? I think you have a major screw loose!
No i never said that but look up the tpc benchmarks and ms sql clustered server kicks ass and has been since win2k was released. They caused sun to stop reporting tpc cause they were getting cained by so much.
No i never said it was more reliable… i said that to get 5 nines ya need clustered hardware.. not just redundant power supplies (if u had redundant everything it would be ok but that is WAY expensive if not impossible).
Clustered Sun servers would be just as reliable.. except for there memmory and mem busses mwahahah (in joke if u dont get it dont worry).
How am i supposed to make my point? The biggest list of ppl who moved to win2k sql is on their site. Sorry im not going to go and find 20 examples for u i have better things to do.. someone challanged me to show that it is being used and i demonstrated it. Lets move on .. no wait.. i just want to brag again how windows has WDM kernal mode mem protected drivers.. making its audio drivers more stable than Macosx core audio could ever be.
Macosx audio and network drivers are in unprotected kernal space. You will need to reboot after an audio crash because the audio driver can write over any mem (remind u of os9?).. when logic for osx finaaly gets released.
Have i proved my points? or was there something i missed.
Glenn
>>Macosx audio and network drivers are in unprotected kernal space. You will need to reboot after an audio crash because the audio driver can write over any mem (remind u of os9?).. when logic for osx finaaly gets released. Have i proved my points? or was there something i missed.<<
I can admit that I have caused a corruption in the audio subsystem in Mac OS X in the past (at least once), which caused me to reboot to fix the problem, but I have done the same in Windows as well! Unless Microsoft has conjured up a miracle fix that I don’t know of, I don’t see any differences in reliability between the 2. I don’t think I have ever corrupted the audio subsystem in Solaris, we only use the audio for anomaly event alarms, so it doesn’t do much more than that!
CattBeMac: I can admit that I have caused a corruption in the audio subsystem in Mac OS X in the past (at least once), which caused me to reboot to fix the problem, but I have done the same in Windows as well!
Which version of Windows? In Windows NT, IIRC, it runs in protected kernel space. (In Windows 9x, you have to reboot for any crashes whatsoever, :-), which is the reason I moved to Linux – Windows NT was too expensive then BTW).
>>Which version of Windows?<<
Win95!