Submitted by If Vista is not activated with a legitimate product registration key in time, the system will run in ‘reduced functionality mode’ until it is activated, said Thomas Lindeman, a senior product manager at Microsoft. In this mode, people will be able to use a Web browser for up to an hour, after which time the system will log them out, he said. On a related note, Microsoft later this month plans to roll out an Express Upgrade program that gives buyers of Windows XP-based PCs a coupon for a free or discounted upgrade to Windows Vista through March 15.
How much time will take to crack this feature to the underground world?
If this feature is included in the next RC, my bet is that it will be cracked before vista is released.
While I agree that it’s pretty easy for crackers to disable activation, the fact of the matter is that normal human beings aren’t going to know about or use such mechanisms. They’d be crazy to do so, anyway. It’s a perfect vector for malware.
LOL!
I don’t know where you live, but if there is ONE thing people will learn here in italy, is how to crack windows and office. Or they will ask their friends/colleagues if they have a cd (or to install it for them).
The probability that no one you know has a corporate version of xp is next to zero.
Most people here do not even KNOW you should pay for windows or office.
Well, I guess there’s no need in telling how much people in Russia can learn (and actually learn) about Windows.
Right… I’m all against piracy and I would say that it is a good measure to reduce the functionality of the OS when not activated. BUT as I’m saying there’s a big BUT: make it easy for people to activate their copy. Even if they reinstall or whatever just make activation a straigtforward non-obtrusive process. That way loyal customers won’t be annoyed and pirates will experience reduced functionaly. But that would only happen in a perfect world tbh so I don’t think this would work out okay due to nature of an operating system – you’re given access to binaries and we all know that sooner or later it is going to be cracked. So what I’m going for is just make it as easy as possible for the paying clients to be your customers.
Frankly, it already IS easy for people to activate — because they DON’T have to do so. As the article says, most people get their copies of Windows when they buy a new machine. Retail (ie. shrinkwrap) upgrades comprise less than 1% of all OS sales for MS, according to statistics. This is a tempest in a teacup. It’s primarily aimed at keeping graybox vendors honest.
And even in the retail install scenario, activation is in most cases automatic. Either enter your product key during installation and Vista will automatically activate after the grace period, or go to System Properties and manually activate (maybe a 3-step process).
Any word on when this feature will be ported to Linux? This is the last thing that prevent me from using it exclusively.
On a more serious note, makes me sad seeing clean OS code getting polluted with stuff like that. Who are they kidding anyways? They still cannot include this activation in corporate copies of Vista, and it’s those copies that will get pirated and distributed.
“On a more serious note, makes me sad seeing clean OS code getting polluted with stuff like that. Who are they kidding anyways? They still cannot include this activation in corporate copies of Vista, and it’s those copies that will get pirated and distributed.”
They most certainly can include it in corporate volume copies. The article explained how it will work.
“They most certainly can include it in corporate volume copies. The article explained how it will work.”
I stand corrected, should always read the entire article before commenting. I just never imagined they’d pull something like that.
“I stand corrected, should always read the entire article before commenting. I just never imagined they’d pull something like that.”
Agreed. Will be interesting to see if now there is going to have to be yet another server, like the licensing servers for terminal server and such. One of the reasons I am working on migrating my shop away from Windows where possible.
°They still cannot include this activation in corporate copies of Vista, and it’s those copies that will get pirated and distributed.°
fo sho. like my copy of xp pro sp2 italian corporate from thepiratebay
works like a charm
Confession is good for the soul.
Except that they ARE adding this to the corporate copies.
That said, I doubt this will have any real impact on Windows usership;
One because people buy OEM and probably will never reinstall;
Two because most people are probably not AWARE that there’s an alternative;
Three because sooner or later someone will find a way around it and then everyone will go on their merry way, getting free software illegally rather than genuinely free and legal software.
>> They still cannot include this activation in
>> corporate copies of Vista, and it’s those copies
>> that will get pirated and distributed.
… and probably be available on the fileshares a week or more before the public release…
FCKGW-RHQQ2-YXRKT-8TG6W-2B7Q8 ring any bells people?
(You know FCKGW even has it’s own Wikipedia entry?!?)
I don’t this will be any better.
While retail sales are typically very small, that is at least partially because they have not rolled out a new OS in five years. Things are a bit different when a new version becomes available.
I wonder what happens to someone who upgrades and uses their machine for an hour, but is not online. Does the system log them out anyway? Having to call somebody to get what you just bought to work would be obnoxious.
Retail sales have always been a small percentage of sales even with new major versions. The bulk of sales is via pre-installed OSes on new computers and volume licenses from businesses.
I wonder what happens to someone who upgrades and uses their machine for an hour, but is not online. Does the system log them out anyway?
No, the process is much the same as it is under XP. Upon installation, the user has a grace period, 30 days in the case of retail Vista, to activate either by phone or the Internet. If the user doesn’t activate within 30 days, Vista will automatically try to activate via the Internet. If it fails, the user will be advised to activate. If they do not, Vista (like XP) will transition to reduced functionality mode until they activate.
Failure? I don’t know. Two of my friends bought a legit copy of Windows XP because of WGA. While it might not lock down savvy users from using a pirate copy, it seems enough to deter the casual user from pirating, just like with copy-protected DVDs.
It did managed to piss off another friend who formats his computer every month, but that’s another story…
is what will happen when the product is no longer supported. Will I still be able to able to reactivate if I have to reinstall it on new hardware.
It will be interesting to see what happen when XP gets end of lifed. At least, with XP there are plenty modified/pirated versions on the net that circumvent the activation process that you could use in this worst case scenario. So perhaps it won’t be a problem in XP.
If Microsoft get more successful in fighting this kind of things going the windows way could be very expensive road to follow in the long run.
Not that I think Microsoft will charge that much for an upgrade even in the most extreme scenario I doubt it would be more than a few thousands of dollars, but what if your in house apps doesn’t run in Microsoft next generation OS without modifications. That could be really expensive.
Another thing, these kinds of mechanisms would be a natural target for virus and malware writers. Imagine how long time you will spend in telephone queue to Microsoft support when thousands or perhaps even millions of people have lost their valid user credentials due to some exploit.
I have no problem with stopping software piracy, but it must be done in a way where paying customers can feel safe.
is what will happen when the product is no longer supported. Will I still be able to able to reactivate if I have to reinstall it on new hardware.
From Microsoft’s Product Activation FAQ:
Will Microsoft use activation to force me to upgrade? In other words, will Microsoft ever stop giving out activation codes for any of the products that require activation?
No, Microsoft will not use activation as a tool to force people to upgrade. Activation is merely an anti-piracy tool, nothing else.
Microsoft will also support the activation of Windows XP throughout its life and will likely provide an update that turns activation off at the end of the product’s lifecycle so users would no longer be required to activate the product.
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx
Microsoft will also support the activation of Windows XP throughout its life and will likely provide an update that turns activation off at the end of the product’s lifecycle so users would no longer be required to activate the product.
Sure, that may be their answer at the moment – but there is no obligation to follow through here. I’m sure the shareholders would have a different opinion if asked. Microsoft’s track record for doing what they say they will do hasn’t been extremely stellar.
In any case, at least the corporate world doesn’t have to worry about this when using the VLK versions. I’m sure that if anyone was going to raise a stink when this happens, it would be businesses, not the end users themselves. Most people will have no clue that there’s an update, where to get it, or even want to bother with it – Microsoft will most assuredly make it easier to upgrade to the next version of Windows instead.
Several mechanisms for notifying the user of the activation upgrade are already in place. The user can be notified either when they activate or via Windows Update.
Will I still be able to able to reactivate if I have to reinstall it on new hardware.
Of course not…
Since you don’t own the software in the first place, and are simply licensed to use it – I’m certain that somewhere in the stipulations there is no guarantee that you’ll be able to effectively use it beyond it’s “lifetime” (whenever Microsoft deems it no longer needs to be supported). At that point, Microsoft has every intention to make you upgrade to their next product version – which means, their previous product is their largest competitor.
Even with XP End-of-life’d you are still not legally allowed to use one of the “hacked” versions. Activation basically gives you no legal way to re-use an old version of the product once Microsoft stops supporting it. It makes selling ‘used’ OS licenses in the aftermarket less of a problem for Microsoft’s new OS offerings.
Activation is evil.
This is untrue. Though you do not own the software, you do have a perpetual license to it if you legally acquired it and, as quoted in my previous post, Microsoft has stated their intentions for EOL situations.
This has got to be one of THE MOST PAIN IN THE ASS “FEATURES” I’ve ever seen. The LAST THING I need to waste my time with is calling technical support, not because I’m having an actual “technical” issue, but because I’m having a problem with licensing. As for an update after the product is EOLed, what motivation does Microsoft have to make this update not another massive “pain in the ass” to perform/deploy (and coax you into upgrading instead)? This is why I LOVED VLKs—because I didn’t have to deal with this BULLSHIT over 1500+ machines. Oh, you’re formatting this box? Don’t forget to activate everything/prove you’re not a criminal yet again.
Sorry Microsoft—treat your customers like thieves and see how long they’ll be your customers. Hello open source/alternatives; we’re beginning to live in an IP “world gone mad.”
Edited 2006-10-04 22:37
If you were deploying to 1500+ machines, you’d just update the deployment images you use. Something you’d have to do for service packs and similar anyway. You’d also need to know whether or not you are compliant with all your licenses, so activation would help to point out where you aren’t. None of this would have to be a manual process in an environment such as the one you describe.
Yes, activation is “evil”.
What will you do with your licensed copy of activation-Windows if Microsoft might have gone bankrupt one day and all activation servers might be offline forever? 🙂
Don’t laugh, nothing is made for eternity.
In this scenario, old Windows 98 would still function without restrictions of any kind, whereas a future Vista could be a dead end.
So if you buy such a software product (from any company) which has to be activated in such a way, please keep this possibility in mind.
One recent example is Yellowtab’s Zeta 1.0 which has also to be activated via internet or telephone. But now Yellowtab is gone, there is no telephone support any more, all activation servers are down now. The only way in this case is an update to a new Zeta version which is sold by a new owner.
As I said, activation is “evil”.
The only way in this case is an update to a new Zeta version which is sold by a new owner.
Or of course, since you’re “licensed for eternity” as mentioned by someone earlier, you could always circumvent the feature – although (here in the U.S. anyway), that would be a crime punishable under DMCA.
Now the world has been dominated,MS can use REAL protecction methods. Remember Serials for Oficce 6?
Microsoft should enforce to a point where users should start to consider alternatives.
BTW Microsoft needs more money as fines for mnopoly abuse are escalating.
I think it’s a fascinating experiment to see if the attitude of people toward copy protection and nagware have changed. Good luck with it but if history is any judge it’s not going to be a great marketing feature in your favor. Contrary to their paranoia Linux is not a threat to Windows, Microsoft is.
Edited 2006-10-04 21:54
Well, I would say it’s more accurate to say that MS is a BIGGER threat to Windows than Linux. After all, if Windows were the only OS out there then we really WOULD be at MS’s mercy.
Yes, I stand corrected.
People do not want to pay that much for an OS, if you want people to stop pirating your software, drop the price so it’s not such a hit on the wallet.
They also don’t want to buy this stuff because of Activation already, plus all the other DRM that is starting to plague their products.
The only thing this hurts, are still the average person, who may not know they have a pirated copy, or when it malfunctions and starts doing it to legitimate copies, like the Genuine advantage program.
People that pirate software, or know what they are doing are going to keep getting around this stuff regardless.
Like SafeDisc protection and Starforce on games, if you legitimately buy the game, some of them cause tremendous problems, and you paid for it, the people that pirate it, get to play the game without any of the fuss, the way it should be.
it seems enough to deter the casual user from pirating, just like with copy-protected DVDs.
that sounds true.
however it drove me to using cracked copies.
i have legit copies that i dont use becus of the hazzel
of calling microsoft to get the update.
dont know if a keygen has spot out my keys or something
but activation over the net often fails.
i even heard a about some people who had legit copies that bougth new ones when they faild to activate.
FWIW, I buy my video games–and then download the cracks/no-CDs/keygens and the like because of the crap I need to go through with the “official” copy. I wonder how long I’ll keep doing this though…
Since there is some copy protection discussion going on, here’s my story: back when I used Windows, I bought games. There were games which would not install because the copy protection did not like the cd burner which came with my system. It isn’t that I could not run them, but they would refuse to install *at all*. I could not return the opened software for a refund. In order to use the software which I had purchased, I had to… get this… download a pirated copy. That was the only way to get several purchased games to install.
Not surprisingly, my sympathy level for companies complaining of piracy drifted towards zero.
Oh, wait, I’m already there!
“It has nothing to do with license counting right now, but companies will need to expend time and effort and some money to administer this, in the name of helping Microsoft recoup revenue lost to piracy,” he said. “There needs to be more of a benefit (for customers). Linux and Mac communities will try to make hay with this, but this will not be the tipping point.”
I beg to differ 🙂
This will kill MS Vista purchases all over the world, where poverty is the most dominant factor in purchase.
So, I expect most foreign countries to seriously consider alternatives Mac, Solaris, Linuxes and others.
For power users who test software and finally saturate windows to a level of crawling, they will not be able to reinstall (maybe more than x times). Add to that that MS advise users to clean install windows rather than try to fix a corrupt one due to viral or other infections, which would not be possible due to this restriction that they will apply.
Also, for pirates and for legitimate users alike calling the base to check for a previously activated copy is a waste of bandwidth and time, and a chance to be attacked by a glitch from the activating server. Like what happened once with XP activating servers where people with not legitamate keys could activate their copies, but who knows if not the opposite could happen?!
I am now seriously considering buying a Mac workstation instead of windows to use it for basically everything, while keeping windows XP systems for compatibility and gaming. Currently Linux serves me as the mac alternative, but could not beat the mac in alot of features and Ease.
The world says : Goodbye windows, hello Alternatives!
This will kill MS Vista purchases all over the world, where poverty is the most dominant factor in purchase. So, I expect most foreign countries to seriously consider alternatives Mac, Solaris, Linuxes and others.
In areas where poverty is a factor, there are pricing differences, alternative SKUs, and special programs to acquire PCs with Windows.
Your argument is also flawed because if poverty is such a factor that people can’t afford Windows PCs, they can’t afford Macs either. (Open) Solaris and Linux maybe. Though in many cases, they just pirate Windows.
Edited 2006-10-05 05:31
Your argument is also flawed because if poverty is such a factor that people can’t afford Windows PCs, they can’t afford Macs either.
Maybe in the past, but they still need a damned powerful PC to run Vista properly. Macs would actually work out cheaper.
Funny I found a PC that can run Vista on Circuit Cities website just find with Aero for only $450 and thats still cheaper then a mac. Plus if you buy them now you get discounts or free upgrades to Vista depending ont he OS pre-installed. I have no idea how it is in 3rd world countries but I tend to think they have bigger issues to worry about then how much Windows costs them. You know like things like food. Besides its just pirates anyways in those areas.
what a bigotted racisist view you have young man.
How was that racist? What part of third world countries did you not understand?
Which part of “I tend to think they have bigger issues to worry about then how much Windows costs them. You know like things like food” and “Besides its just pirates anyways in those areas” that GP wrote, that you didn’t understand ?
That’s what the racist comments are.
Edited 2006-10-05 15:32
Saying “That’s racist” does not address my question.
How was that racist?
It was NOTHING to do with the color of anyones skin. It had to do with NATIONS, not races. Even so, it’s not prejudice against a nation or nations. It’s the truth.
“In areas where poverty is a factor, there are pricing differences, alternative SKUs, and special programs to acquire PCs with Windows.”
Totally not true!
I ve spent most of my time traveling and living in foreign countries, and I have to tell you that the pricing in most of these countries are the same as the one here in US + the shipping coast and the taxes which will end up more cheaper if you buy it from here in US; exactly what most of my relatives do when they come here to US, where they buy products like crazy.
MS doesn’t care about the people of those countries but for their corporations only, unless the counter of people who use their windows hit a threshold guaged by MS then they will assaign a special program for such countries to sell them windows at a deaply discounted prices; sometime they give windows for free if they are threatened by open source software like what happened in Taiwan with some corporations.
In middle east for example windows XP Pro full version in a Box reached 600$, in 6 malls I have visited!!
My opinions are based on real life experiences, not just facts taken from the mouth of MS. As some says talk is cheap.
All these comments are the same exact thigns that were mentioned when Windows XP announced the activation thing. And it obviously did not impact sales. People really didn’t care then and they certainly don’t care now. Most people will buy their PC’s from the store where it will be pre-activated if it isn’t it will automatically do it anyways and the end user won’t really care to notice. The only people who do notice is the geeks and the anti-MS people who think will actually matter which it will not and frankly they make up a tiny market.
And it obviously did not impact sales
The sales you talk about are preloaded PC and corporate buying. Of course it didn’t affect sales. Software Assurance impacted sales more than activation, as corporate versions didn’t have this activation thing.
The only people who do notice is the geeks and the anti-MS people who think will actually matter which it will not and frankly they make up a tiny market
No. Actually, the only people that do notice are angry people like yourself that fear that they won’t be able to use cracked versions of Windows anymore.
The other ones don’t care actually.
That makes no sense. Because I said the only people who care about activation is Anti-MS people and geeks I am a priate who can’t use pirated software wha—-?
If I was whining about activation being a pain then I would understand but I wasn’t I was simply pointing out that all this hoopla was the same as when XP announced activation.
Why would Vista having software activation effect sales at all? Its not. Just like it didn’t matter with XP. Thats all I was trying to say. I am not saying its not going to matter a single ounce with Vista contrary to what many people here are saying.
As for my comments about the people who are not so fortuanate to have hundreds of dollars to blow on software…software activation did not effect them with Windows XP and its not going to matter with Vista. If you get a new PC it will be preinstalled. If you buy it seperate there are many editions available but how many people buy a boxed version of windows vs. getting it with their new PC? So if the country is so poor that Vista is too expensive and people for some reason need it they will get it through not so legitimate ways. But frankly if they can’t afford it at that point and they cannot afford a new PC I maintain they have more important issues then computers and software.
Not that I advocate piracy, but this is exactly why I switched to Linux and FOSS several years ago! Big Brother, acting like a drug dealer when It turned the other cheek during years of casual copying amongst friends. Then, just when the market was fully saturated, and the user base fully dependent on MS (because it’s all they know)…payback time! It’s like MS thinks they have a right to hold your computer for ransom. I won’t even talk about WGA, or DRM all of which is similar bullshit. Fortunately, unlike other sheeple, I don’t mind taking the time to learn something new or try something different. And, I don’t have to pay a red cent for the thousands of high quality software packages I have at my disposal. Or, wait five plus years for a major upgrade. Thanks Microsoft, but no thanks. You can keep your crappy Windows Vista!!! I’ll spend my $350.00+ on a cool new piece of hardware, or maybe my car payment.
Professor Däagenhasz and Dr. Snörlistörlisson in the Antartic Station. For whatever reason Däagenhasz’ laptop got completely hosed, never mind, reinstall Windows.
It’s the Artic winter, not really much of a way to contact anyone at all. Däagenhasz’ XP refused to work after a month. fückenföden. Thank god that a friend still had a copy of Linux flying around… The penguin matches the theme here much better anyway…
Dr. Thatterwhorpe and professor Snooblegook in the Takla Makan. Observing the life of the M’ist Kh’aef’r ant and how they get along in this desert over the course of 4 Months. We have these solar panels to power our Laptop, only for a few hours a day, but we can do the minimum stuff necessary. The problem is, it stopped working 30 days after reinstalling WinXP… Luckily Dr. Thatterwhorpe could trade it and his camel for a MacBook. All is good, but the blood stains on the machine are slightly irritating…
I’m on the country side in China (illegaly because they’d never let any foreigner travel here to see the extreme poverty). No phones, no internet. I call myself happy to find a place to recharge my batteries every other day. Reinstalled Vista and it refused to work after a month. Redflag Linux alls the way, dudes!
Seriously if you’re in slightly extreme situations you just really don’t want to trust a Windows machine…
You know, I enjoy using Windows, but hate this activation BS. It does nothing but create headaches for legitimate owners. Note to Microsoft: if there is one thing that would make me jump to another OS, it is this terrible activation you force upon us. As soon as I can run Linux pain free and use many of my favorite programs under such environment, I’m gone.
And they will not do this.
If they had a 100% hacker-proof way to prevent illegal copies, who would be using their OS anymore?
Remember, they claimed they tried to do this on XP as well. If they really wanted to, they would’ve succeeded.
Edited 2006-10-05 07:24
Greets,
A friend of mine has a business and he bought a copy of XP Professional, since 2002.
He did on upgrade, and activated again the copy.
Now, his computer was burned by a storm. He bought a new one, and guess what: he can’t activate windows!!! His legit copy. He is planning buying again because of that.
Now, a guy with a pirated copy can install anytime, but a legit user can’t. Now we don’t even know how to do to activate this thing again! I guess we must call the support. And guess what, it is not a free call.
Probably some guy will crack this Vista thing, and the one who will suffer from this activation POS will be the legit users, like always.
It’s just like music you buy from the internet or on CD. Guys who pirate them can copy and use them in the car, music player, PC… Guys who pay for it, can’t!
microsoft copy protetion is very good.
*Reality check*
How long did it take to crack Dungeon siege 2 equipped with MS’s custom protection?
I believe ASM skilled hackers will tear Vista kernel and userspace in pieces, if needed, and allow all kinds of cool things like completely turning off activation hacks, disabling malicious nature of WGA-like tools in Vista, allowing unsigned drivers on system which tries to prevent that (hello HD/Blu-Ray dumps), etc.