Hewlett-Packard is closing custom deals for thousands of desktop PCs running Linux, which has the company assessing the possibility of offering factory-loaded Linux systems, an HP executive said. “We are involved in a number of massive deals for Linux desktops, and those are the kinds of things that are indicators of critical mass. So we are really looking at it very hard,” said Doug Small, worldwide director of open source and Linux marketing at HP. “We are in a massive deal right now for multi-thousands of units of a desktop opportunity for Linux. That’s an indicator.” He declined to give details about the deals.
Sorry, someone had to do it. Better be done with it quickly.
Yes, I am already out…
This is interesting though. If HP will actually start preloading Linux on the desktops, then that would be a huge plus for the direction of Linux.
It’s going to be interesting to see if HP or Dell will be the first to really launch a campain to bring factory loaded Linux to the masses.
A little-known fact is that HP already ships over 250,000 Linux desktops per quarter (based on 2004 figures), mostly to the Asian market. So these deals are interesting, but they’re not an unprecedented event.
Stats from: http://www.channelinsider.com/article/HP+Certifies+Supports+Novell+…
All hands, brace for impact!!
If Dell still takes “stop and see” strategy on the Linux Desktop/Laptop business, I will not be surprise Dell will be the 2nd Gateway.
Individually, some of the stories I have read about OEM Linux are nothing new. HP already had a Linux laptop – the zvSOMETHING. I worked for a company that used Redhat servers from Dell. We have played this pre-loaded Linux game for quite a while with little real results (Wal-mart, etc).
However, it strikes me that we are hearing multiple stories at once from big comapnies – Dell, HP, IBM (for a long time), Sun. Also, many governmental agencies (even in the U.S.) are considering Linux.
I remember reading Bill Gates book “The Road Ahead” where he talked about the snowball effect. Perhaps we are just now starting to see the snowball forming for Linux. It’s not rolling yet, just forming, and could easily be stopped. Who knows, though, if it ever starts rolling, we could see the big paradigm shift.
BTW, I don’t believe the paradigm shift is about Linux. It is actually the death of big, fat proprietary software packages. A lot of people _may_ have to retool themselves from reselling of “packages” to having actual skills that they market. Most consultants companies use couldn’t code there way out of a paper-tape bag. They just know how to recommend and install big, fat packages like Sharepoint Portal Server. They convince the company that it needs this hog (and the Server OS and licenses that go with it). Most of these companies would do just fine with a PHP CMS solution. But the consultants would need to know what they were doing.
Rant over!
I hope they start selling Linux desktop PCs soon. The market desperately needs computers with a quality OS installed.
OK, I’m tired of this line of thought. I want to see Linux on Dell, HP, etc, because I think it is a very good operating system. However, I don’t think Windows is as bad as people make it out. In fact, all the “Windows Sux” talk just makes Linux look worse. Let’s compete because we have a good product. It’s more secure, more flexible, and definitely more Free (as in Libre). I confess, I sometimes joke about “Windblows”, etc., but it’s really not that bad of an OS. I would just like consumers to have a choice, and not be told what they are going to run, and when they are going to upgrade.
“I would just like consumers to have a choice, and not be told what they are going to run, and when they are going to upgrade”
In that case you have no problem with Linux being offered unabated by anti-competitive deals right. Thereby allowing the customers to ‘choose’ from options that are actually provided, and not have to be left with the “take this or go find your own stuff, we won’t tell what else you can get”
Let’s compete because we have a good product.
We DO have a good product. It’s the monopolistic nature of Microsoft and Windows that stops others from competing. That may not always have been true in the past, but it sure as hell is true now.
It’s the monopolistic nature of Microsoft and Windows that stops others from competing
That’s my point. My main problem with Microsoft is _NOT_ Windows sucks, but that the consumer hasn’t been able to choose for a LONG time. So let’s focus on that, and knock off the “Windows Sux” stuff, it just seems juvenile.
Agree there.
Well, you’re right: “Windows is not as bad as people make it out” — It’s actually even much worse than that …
So why would they use linux then?
“So why would they use linux then?”
Maybe they want to use an OS that is secure, reliable, has a reasonable price/EULA, and is not infected with DRM/WGA/activation.
“Maybe they want to use an OS that is secure, reliable, has a reasonable price/EULA, and is not infected with DRM/WGA/activation.”
Again I’ll ask, so why would they use linux then?
Again I’ll ask, so why would they use linux then?
Because it’s secure, reliable, has a reasonable price/EULA and is not infected with DRM/WGA/activation.
I don’t know about you, but that was pretty obvious.
Maybe its not so obvious considering every time I boot up into linux there are always updates a lot of which are security updates. There may be no DRM in it at the moment but Linus sure wasn’t against adding it to the kernel. So again, if you wanted secure and reliable why would you choose linux?
“Maybe its not so obvious considering every time I boot up into linux there are always updates a lot of which are security updates. There may be no DRM in it at the moment but Linus sure wasn’t against adding it to the kernel. So again, if you wanted secure and reliable why would you choose linux?”
I want people to have a choice, I don’t care what OS they use as long they choose to use it. People should not be forced to use Windows because a monopolist makes OEM’s install it on all PCs.
Maybe its not so obvious considering every time I boot up into linux there are always updates a lot of which are security updates.
The fact that there are security updates doesn’t mean the system is insecure. First of all, these are updates for *all* apps installed on the Linux PC, not just the OS. Also, in Linux you often get small “piecemeal” updates, while Microsoft usually puts all of its updates together.
In any case, you mustn’t boot into Linux often. Over the past week in Ubuntu I think there have been only one or two packages that were updated for security on my install.
Now, let’s compare this to Windows history of malware infection, which costs *billions* of dollars every year. It doesn’t matter if this is because Windows is more popular or not: the fact is that *right now* Windows is much more at risk than Linux has ever been.
There may be no DRM in it at the moment but Linus sure wasn’t against adding it to the kernel.
There’s a difference between putting the code in place and making it mandatory.
So again, if you wanted secure and reliable why would you choose linux?
Because it is more secure and reliable. Also, by using it you don’t financially contribute to an abusive quasi-monopoly.
Oh, and Beryl blows Aero out of the water.
Maybe its not so obvious considering every time I boot up into linux there are always updates a lot of which are security updates.
So you think an OS would be more secure that DIDN’T include security updates?
There may be no DRM in it at the moment but Linus sure wasn’t against adding it to the kernel. So again, if you wanted secure and reliable why would you choose linux?
Linux is a pragmatist. Sometimes pragmatists do things that are not a good idea.
“Linux is a pragmatist. Sometimes pragmatists do things that are not a good idea.”
Much much much less often than idealists do, though.
I disagree.
God dude just because there are security updates doesnt mean that it is a bad OS…it just means the community or the maintainers or the developers of that OS and its ecosystem are aware that there are vulnerabilities and that they are working hard to fix them. You should only be lucky that you are getting security updates for free….heck you are getting an entire OS for free so stop your yapping. It doesnt matter if you use XP or if you use Linux. Are you getting your work done as quickly and efficiently as you would like? If yes shut up and if no then go find a different OS. Simple as that.
Because it’s secure, reliable, has a reasonable price/EULA and is not infected with DRM/WGA/activation.
End users don’t know what EULA and DRM/WGA/Activation – what they do know is money – is cheaper than Windows; and what is better – Linux has better applications like Amarok, for example.
No use throwing around unknown TLA’s – stick to promoting things they (the end user) know something about.
Edited 2007-03-08 22:17
“Maybe they want to use an OS that is secure, reliable, has a reasonable price/EULA, and is not infected with DRM/WGA/activation.”
Again I’ll ask, so why would they use linux then?
Patently you don’t realise what a laughing stock that makes you look.
Hard to resist that one.
I thinkt he’s right.
Because the open source development is that fast, and it would be much cheaper for HP/Dell/whaterver to build an oww, user friendly, multimedia linux system for their systems, that works well with the hardware (remebers me of Aple and OS X), instead of buying expensive licenses from microsoft.
Linux gets more and more tools that makes this possible, at the moment Beryl, Amarok, OpenOffice…
In the futere maybe KDE4 and so on?
who knows…
Chicken, meet egg. Egg, meet Chicken.
Egg is extremely shy; Chicken quite reserved. Neither are the easiest to get to know.
But fiery romance could ignite if only Egg would come out of her shell… if only Chicken reached out.
Could this be that certain party?
Edited 2007-03-08 17:36
This guy is not the CEO or VP, he is a “director of open source and Linux marketing at HP”.
Maybe he was afraid Dell was getting too much good press for certifying some of their desktop hardware for use with Linux and this is his attempt to steal Dell’s thunder?
I also don’t really think it will make much difference.
It does not matter what distro they select, what drivers they use, or what packages they select, people in the Linux community would give HP a hard time if they bundle Linux.
If they sell it for free without support or charge and offer support, people in the Linux community are going to complain about it.
They are milking the publicity without having to adopt the tar baby.
It does not matter what distro they select, what drivers they use, or what packages they select, people in the Linux community would give HP a hard time if they bundle Linux.
Oh really? I can only see “the Linux community giv[ing] HP a hard time” if they bundle Novell.
Any other distro, people who don’t want it will just install their own. I, for example, wouldn’t object to being described as one of the strongest critics of Microvel and Ubuntu – but, the difference between the two is, I would be happy to buy a laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled, even although I would have to do some work myself to get it up to my required spec. (And if they DID preinstall Ubuntu, then who knows? Many of the issues I have with it, such as inadequate hardware support, might disappear.)
If they sell it for free without support or charge and offer support, people in the Linux community are going to complain about it.
If they are going to preinstall Linux, then they should give it support on the same basis they give Windows support.
“””
Oh really? I can only see “the Linux community giv[ing] HP a hard time” if they bundle Novell.
“””
Do you really think so? My perception is that the “Boycott Novell” crowd is already boycotting so many things,likely including email and telephones, that they would have a hard time getting their message across, outside of like minded Internet forums.
My historical grounding is in RH/Fedora. My current favorite distro is Ubuntu. But I think that SLED would be a fine choice.
Oh really? I can only see “the Linux community giv[ing] HP a hard time” if they bundle Novell.
Do you really think so?
Yes.
My perception is that the “Boycott Novell” crowd is already boycotting so many things,likely including email and telephones, that they would have a hard time getting their message across, outside of like minded Internet forums.
I call trollshit. If they were boycotting email and phones, why not the Intarweb?
My historical grounding is in RH/Fedora. My current favorite distro is Ubuntu. But I think that SLED would be a fine choice.
Technologically, it’s possible. I’ve heard a lot of good things about SLED from that perspective. It’s just a shame the Koh-i-Noor of Linux has been stolen by our 5th Column.
“””I call trollshit. If they were boycotting email and phones, why not the Intarweb?”””
That was tongue in cheek. But I do think that their shrillness compromises their credibility.
“””Technologically, it’s possible. I’ve heard a lot of good things about SLED from that perspective.”””
Indeed. It’s more than possible. It would make a lot of sense. SLED is the sort of desktop distro that is designed for distribution by HP, Dell, et. al.
Far more suitable than, say, Ubuntu, where the schedule and focus of the next release seem based upon whim.
I don’t mean to trash Ubuntu BTW, as it is my favorite distro these days.
But I’m very one on one with my customers.
It is a very different situation from that in which a faceless corporation sells to faceless, price shopping consumers, who expect credible support from faceless tech support workers, and nastily blog about it (usually with their faces displayed prominently at the top right of the page) if they are not satisfied.
That was tongue in cheek. But I do think that their shrillness compromises their credibility.
What you call “shrillness”, I call “honesty”. I can’t call anyone for being honest, but I can see how it could be a problem for someone who just wants to milk people for their money.
“””
What you call “shrillness”, I call “honesty”. I can’t call anyone for being honest, but I can see how it could be a problem for someone who just wants to milk people for their money.
“””
I believe that the narrow “my way or the highway” attitude that some enthusiasts take is ultimately detrimental to both Linux and Freedom.
Compromise is essential to success. And monomania is antithetical to Freedom.
The real trick is proper balance.
Buddhism is a better model for FOSS advocacy than is Evangelicalism.
But slinging mud is, admittedly, more fun. 😉
Edited 2007-03-08 22:30
I believe that the narrow “my way or the highway” attitude that some enthusiasts take is ultimately detrimental to both Linux and Freedom.
You make it sound as if those opposed to Linux are any better. In reality, there is no better way to be detrimental to Linux in particular, and software freedom in general, than to write closed-source software.
Compromise is essential to success. And monomania is antithetical to Freedom.
Again, you make it sound like those who are not Linux advocates are not monomaniacs. As evidence for the prosecution, I give you Exhibit A: Dozens of different proprietary word processing formats.
Buddhism is a better model for FOSS advocacy than is Evangelicalism.
When was the last time you heard of someone who changed the world by sitting back and taking all the shit he was thrown?
“””You make it sound as if those opposed to Linux are any better.”””
I’m actually more concerned about what we do to defeat ourselves than what outside forces are up to. On the whole, I see one company that really has a desire to see us fail. (Hint: Not Novell.) The others either don’t care (most of them), are too small to matter (most of the remainder), or see us as a mixed bag that they might benefit from later.
“””Again, you make it sound like those who are not Linux advocates are not monomaniacs.”””
I’m beginning to perceive a bit of an “either you’re with us or against us” tone, here.
“””When was the last time you heard of someone who changed the world by sitting back and taking all the shit he was thrown?”””
Without actually taking a position on that, I will mention that I’m putting together a little celebrity death match event:
The Buddha vs Richard, Linus, Eric, and Bruce on their best day.
For world influence, I know where my bet is going. 😉
“””You make it sound as if those opposed to Linux are any better.”””
I’m actually more concerned about what we do to defeat ourselves than what outside forces are up to.
If by “us” you mean “you and me”, then there is no “us”. For you, adoption of Linux clearly is the goal, and freedom is either a hindrance or a sideshow. For me, freedom is the goal, and Linux is the current best vehicle for achieving it in the software world.
On the whole, I see one company that really has a desire to see us fail. (Hint: Not Novell.)
Well, Microsoft want “us” to fail whether we are freedom-fighters (in the non-violent, GNU-loving sense), Linux-lovers, or simply non-Microsoft people. Novell, wittingly or unwittingly, have become accessories to the fact, so whether or not they WANT to see us fail, what they want is irrelevant: What they have chosen is at hand.
I’m beginning to perceive a bit of an “either you’re with us or against us” tone, here.
In what respect? Since Microsoft views everyone – even governments – as a competitor, and since it squashes its competitors, it’s difficult NOT to be against them unless you are paid by them. I’m not paid by them.
OTOH, if, as I suspect, you are not interested in software freedom, then I’m not on your side, either. But don’t worry, I don’t think proprietary software should be illegal – I simply take the stance that if at all possible I will refuse to use it, and will educate anyone willing to listen on why it is a bad idea to use it.
The Buddha vs Richard, Linus, Eric, and Bruce on their best day.
For world influence, I know where my bet is going. 😉
Little point, since that would be a mismatch. A better match would be The Buddha vs. Jesus, or Ken, Dennis, RMS, Linus, Eric and Bruce vs. Gates, Ballmer, and Ellison.
“””
If by “us” you mean “you and me”, then there is no “us”.
“””
I believe in working together for a common cause. I don’t believe in making arbitrary distinctions based upon literal interpretations of dogma that we might happen to subscribe to.
I believe that an atheist, a person of Hindu faith, and a Southern Baptist should be able to work together to accomplish a common goal… without being subject to destabilization by a third party who knows how to drive, easily, a wedge between them. (Offtopic: Anyone else think that avoiding split infinitives and the ending of sentences in prepositions is unduly tedious?)
We who advocate FOSS arrive here through many lines of philosophy.
But wedges are forged from pretty much the same substance.
Let’s try to avoid those wedges, hey?
Focus on the real competitor.
I believe in working together for a common cause. I don’t believe in making arbitrary distinctions based upon literal interpretations of dogma that we might happen to subscribe to.
I don’t believe you can be both a vegetarian and a meat-eater.
I believe in working together for a common cause. I don’t believe in making arbitrary distinctions based upon literal interpretations of dogma that we might happen to subscribe to.
For me, freedom is Non-Negotiable. I feel so strongly about this that I would put it in all caps if that weren’t shouting.
I believe that an atheist, a person of Hindu faith, and a Southern Baptist should be able to work together to accomplish a common goal… without being subject to destabilization by a third party who knows how to drive, easily, a wedge between them
Well, unfortunately a wedge HAS been driven between Novell and the rest of the community.
But wedges are forged from pretty much the same substance.
Let’s try to avoid those wedges, hey?
Focus on the real competitor
Don’t think for a moment that just because Novell has joined the MS camp, it means I have taken my eye off Microsoft.
“””Well, unfortunately a wedge HAS been driven between Novell and the rest of the community.”””
I agree that it is unfortunate. But not with the passive voice “has been driven”. MS handed us the wedge. We drove it ourselves, as they knew we would.
FOSS is a new kind of threat, and it has taken MS a while to come up with an effective strategy against it. I believe that they may have hit upon it at last: Turn FOSS against itself and let its players fight each other.
If, for example, HP finds SLED to be the best fit for their preinstallation plans, but forego it for fear of a backlash from “the community”, then we have only hurt ourselves.
I’m not a big Suse fan, BTW. I’ve tried it a number of times over the years and it has never been my cup of tea. I’ve never been a big Novell fan, either. It wasn’t too many years ago that I considered Novell to be on the enemy team.
But now I see them as sharing much with us in the way of goals. (And I’m not buying the bit that wanting to see Linux succeed is, operationally, a different goal than software freedom; One has to focus the tunnel-vision pretty finely to get a glimpse of that.)
As things stand right now, we are better off with Novell than without them. And (to get back to the original point) penalizing a company for preinstalling their wares is quite counterproductive and maladaptive for Linux and freedom fans alike.
Edited 2007-03-09 13:19
I agree that it is unfortunate. But not with the passive voice “has been driven”. MS handed us the wedge. We drove it ourselves, as they knew we would.
FOSS is a new kind of threat, and it has taken MS a while to come up with an effective strategy against it. I believe that they may have hit upon it at last: Turn FOSS against itself and let its players fight each other.
One wonders what else we are supposed to do? I’m certainly not going to give any legitimacy to Microsoft’s bullsh^H^H^H^H^H^Hclaims by paying Microsoft and Novell to finance prospective patent fraud on the part of the former.
If, for example, HP finds SLED to be the best fit for their preinstallation plans, but forego it for fear of a backlash from “the community”, then we have only hurt ourselves.
I’m not a big Suse fan, BTW. I’ve tried it a number of times over the years and it has never been my cup of tea. I’ve never been a big Novell fan, either. It wasn’t too many years ago that I considered Novell to be on the enemy team.
Well, you see, I DID like SUSE, even after Novell purchased it – in fact it was only after Novell purchased it that I finally got my hands on it. However, I’m not standing for this deal.
But now I see them as sharing much with us in the way of goals.
Selling out to Microsoft vastly outweighs any goals they might share with us, any good they may have done, be doing, or wish to do.
(And I’m not buying the bit that wanting to see Linux succeed is, operationally, a different goal than software freedom; One has to focus the tunnel-vision pretty finely to get a glimpse of that.)
Of course it is. If you are willing to compromise on software freedom then we will see a ghastly rise in the amount of proprietary software available for Linux, which will just make it all the more difficult for people to wean themselves off it.
As things stand right now, we are better off with Novell than without them.
No, we are not.
And (to get back to the original point) penalizing a company for preinstalling their wares is quite counterproductive and maladaptive for Linux and freedom fans alike.
No, it’s counterproductive for Microsoft’s plans to take over Linux. And that is very, very, VERY good.
FOSS is a new kind of threat, and it has taken MS a while to come up with an effective strategy against it. I believe that they may have hit upon it at last: Turn FOSS against itself and let its players fight each other.
I don’t see how this will make any difference. We already have people who swear by Debian, others who swear by Ubuntu, others who swear by {Slackware,RedHat,Linspire,whathaveyou} and people who’ve sworn OFF any number of those distros, in the Linux market – and it doesn’t seem to be hurting adoption (despite what the detractors will tell you) any more than having people who swear by BMW’s, Fords or Mercs does in the car market.
“””
One wonders what else we are supposed to do? I’m certainly not going to give any legitimacy to Microsoft’s bullsh^H^H^H^H^H^Hclaims by paying Microsoft and Novell to finance prospective patent fraud on the part of the former.
“””
Well, if your worry is the legitimization of the idea of patent infringement by the FOSS community, you can relax.
That idea has already been legitimized. For years. And FOSS almost certainly *does* infringe upon patented ideas… no doubt including patents that Microsoft holds.
It’s far too late to be sticking our heads into that particular hole in the sand. Or do you really think that we don’t violate any patents? And if you acknowledge that we likely do, but want to keep it under wraps, isn’t that a bit disingenuous?
I seriously doubt that the deal in question will have any notable effects on that front… aside from community response drawing undue attention to the matter. (Again, we hang ourselves.)
Novell does seem to be hard at work regarding interoperability. And we have already seen concrete benefits. Or would you prefer to just take their technology while trashing their company? The license that Novell uses, the GPL, does allow for that, after all.
Edited 2007-03-09 19:05
“(Offtopic: Anyone else think that avoiding split infinitives and the ending of sentences in prepositions is unduly tedious?) ”
me: yes. KIShortS is still the rule for forums imo. Even if it means butchering grammar. Especially since English is a tedious language. Spanish can express in a two or three word sentence what takes English at least 5 often 8.
Rob
“Compromise is essential to success.”
It’s not a good idea to always compromise, the trick is to understand WHEN and WHAT to compromise.
twenenx: If they are going to preinstall Linux, then they should give it support on the same basis they give Windows support.
Which means “none” and would suit me just fine.
EDIT: Oh, my bad. If you mean providing drivers and BIOS updates through GNU/Linux, this would be splendid. I thought of desktop support. Again, sorry for any confusion.
Edited 2007-03-09 13:28
It does not matter what distro they select, what drivers they use, or what packages they select, people in the Linux community would give HP a hard time if they bundle Linux.
I think you have a good point. Picking a distro can be problematic (e.g., if they pick Suse, as one poster mentioned). Should or should they not put “proprietary” bits in (either way 50% of the people will complain)? What, if anything should the bundle? The list goes on.
How should a company navigate this often “grouchy” group?
How should a company navigate this often “grouchy” group?
Lowest common denominator method, just as they do now (by installing Windows). Install Ubuntu, no proprietary stuff, same kind of software bundle as they do with their Windows machines: IE -> Firefox, WMP -> Amarok, MSOffice/Works -> OpenOffice.
Install Ubuntu, no proprietary stuff
I’m not sure that would fly. Not being able to watch DVD’s, play MP3’s, many websites not working, etc. might be a big turn-off to people. You and I might know how to resolve that (should we choose to), but the average user is just going to think their computer is broken.
This is where the two versions of Freespire might help. The user could choose the Free edition (no non-free software), or the “closed bits” edition. I think the latest version of Ubuntu (7.04) may offer some help in this area also (offering the user some guidance if they try to use certain codecs). SUSE might be a better choice commercially, because more things will work out of the box.
I’m not sure that would fly. Not being able to watch DVD’s, play MP3’s, many websites not working, etc. might be a big turn-off to people. You and I might know how to resolve that (should we choose to), but the average user is just going to think their computer is broken.
Then what we need is an icon on the desktop called “Click here to listen to MP3’s, etc.” or something.
Create their own distribution based Fedora, brand it according to their company motif – HP Desktop Linux; work with third party software vendors and create the same level support as for their Windows counterpart.
The problem is that every time companies have dumped Linux onto desktops, every hardware company has made a half ass attempt to actually turn it into something that is attractive to the end user – and unfortunately I don’t see things improving.
HP is the same Microsoft whore that it always was; cutting their spending on their own UNIX in favour of a closer relationship with Microsoft, lack of investment and discloser to supporting HP printers on Linux, lack of working with third parties to bring software to Linux.
I don’t think Dell is going to change a thing; they reveal onthe fact they spend nothing on R&D – they’re nothing more than the manufacturing wing of Intel and AMD; so the likelihood they would spend the necessary kind of money to turn Linux into a tempting alternative to Windows is highly unlikely – as for the announcement about the position over Linux? nothing more than a PR stunt to get their name in the paper.
Edited 2007-03-08 22:09
I think I understand your points, but taking a snapshot of the the market place today, is not going to be the same image in the future. The article, as well as many other stories are showing a growing interest in the Linux Desktop, after all sales are growing.
The “complainers” in the Linux community are very much like any family or organizaation. Until someone takes the lead, and moves decisively, the “group” will sound like squabbling hens. Everyone has an opinion, a favorite, or their own unique view of what the future should be. When decisive moves are made most will be pleased and glad to follow. Of course there will always be those who will continue to grumble, but for the most part they will allow for some level of approval.
This article is showing another point in the journey. The big OEMs selling pre-installed Linux in the consumer market place is going to happen. This article is an indicator.
Edited 2007-03-08 20:14
The big OEMs selling pre-installed Linux in the consumer market place is going to happen. This article is an indicator.
Wow, I hope you are right. I wonder though, how many are ready for success. I guess many of us would have to switch to some other niche OS to get our geek buzz. I wonder if I can run Plan9 on my laptop?
Well HP support Linux very well with printers, I’d like to see them do Linux desktop for sure. At least HP seem to be doing this proper rather than sitting on the fence.
HP donate kickarse server equipment to kernel.org as well so thumbs up for HP.
Where have you seen HP supporting Linux with printers. I see …
Microsoft Windows Vista
Microsoft Windows Vista (64-bit)
Microsoft Windows XP
Microsoft Windows XP x64
Microsoft Windows 2000 Pro
Microsoft Windows 2000
Microsoft Windows ME
Microsoft Windows 98
Mac OS X
Mac OS 9
Where are the linux drivers? Show me an all-in one printer where they provide Linux drivers for scanning / copying / printing.
Are their drivers as robust as the Windows versions? When you print something can you select to print a mirror image for an iron on transfer?
I’m not speaking from experience, I’d just like to know.
Where are the linux drivers?
At HP’s Linux Printing and Imaging site:
http://hplip.sourceforge.net/
Show me an all-in one printer where they provide Linux drivers for scanning / copying / printing.
According to this
http://hplip.sourceforge.net/supported_devices/color_laser_mfp.html
for example the Color LaserJet 2800
“Over 1,000 open source printer drivers
HP is the only major printer manufacturer with fully open source printer drivers. We’ve contributed over 1,000, now included in our partners’ Linux distributions for true plug n’ play support, earning us first prize in a Linuxprinting.org survey because of quality, speed, and open source commitment.”
http://hplip.sourceforge.net/
http://opensource.hp.com/
I’m speaking from experience”
Me: “When will you support x86_64 on printer XYZ on XP”
HP: “We aren’t”
Me: “Oh”
Fortuanately it all just worked with fedora without any “help” from HP.
which Linux do you think they will use (this might sound stupid)
One of 3. Either Novell’s SLED, Ubuntu, or Redhat Enterprise Workstation.
Im willing to bet its Novell, since they already have an agreement in place.
It won’t be red hat. Not mature enough for the desktop, not popular outside the server market, and pricy.
They use Suse for their pre install setup disk (SmartStart) so I’m also thinking Suse.
Edited 2007-03-08 18:39
Actually as former HPer they supported Debian, RHEL and Suse internally on what we called Linux COE (Common Operating Environment) So i wouldn’t put it past them to offer debianubuntu. Theyt already offer support for debian on some servers. Although they have strong relationships with both RH and Novell so maybe all three or one preinstall with certification for the others.
2.6.something
Oops, that’s a kernel, not an OS…
Yeah, I’m guessing either Opensuse or Ubuntu.
Edited 2007-03-09 08:16
They should instead of perhaps preinstalling linux, and offering many different dists, at the very least simply make sure their hardware works perfectly, lots of the already established linux users will not be using the preinstalled distribution anyway, what matters is that the hardware is good.
and for beginners they can always have an option for preinstalled ubuntu or whatever else, doesent really matter.
ofcourse for larger orders, a choice of stuff like novell, redhat, or basically anything else should be possible too. Ofcourse this simply costs, as anything does.
HP is happily married with MS. They have children in common and I cannot see divorce in sight. No reason for HP to have a liason with Linux.
Nobody kills the cow if milk is more expensive than meat.
Anyway some things are starting to change, for example, linux is in more and more mouths year by year. And HP, Dell and others (MS too!) are listening carefully.
I have hesitated to buy HP, because of their rather dodgy reputation for customer support. I have always tended to look for smaller outfits for complete systems.
I just ordered my second machine from rCubed. Their Web site presents a lot of the usual options for building machines. The particular system I wanted didn’t offer a no-keyboard/mouse and no-speakers option, so I called and asked about it. While I was on the phone, the sales person modified the Web page in question, and told me to refresh my browser. That’s service.
I also had a choice of two OSes, Linux and Windows. Of the various flavors of Linux, I could choose between OpenSuse, Fedora, or Ubuntu. I could also subscribe to the enterprise versions of Red Hat or Suse. Those are reasonable choices.
My experience with a Linux based laptop was quite positive. It came loaded with Fedora. The kernel had been customized, and when I turned on the machine, everything worked.
So, it’s possible to purchase a Linux computer that “just works.” In fact, it’s easy. You are dealing with smaller outfits, but the service is better. If Dell and HP move into the Linux field, I wish them well, but I won’t consider them until their customer support improves.
What Distro’s they pick. Obviously NDL is one. RHEL is likely, and problalby Ubuntu. What kind of support will the offer? If they are only going to offer half-@ssed support then the venture will fail. PPl taking a chance on linux will need some help.
-nX
Which is clear judging by his seemingly favourite word: “massive”
And what exactly does ‘massive’ mean?
“We are in a massive deal right now for multi-thousands of units of a desktop opportunity for Linux.”
‘opportunity’? The way I read that massive sentence it appears the OS has not been finalized for said massive deal. For all we know, OS/2 could also be in the running.
As usual, instead of listening to the marketing directors I’ll wait for results from the finance directors.
HP made 20 million dollars from Debian support in the last year, I believe, so it’s not a huge stretch to say that it’s possible to believe they might not go with Red Hat or Novell.
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8312248169.html
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Analysis — In Samuel Beckett’s masterpiece, Waiting for Godot, Godot never arrives, and the play ends with our characters still waiting. I sometimes think Linux users are also stuck in a barren landscape endlessly waiting for Dell, HP, Lenovo, or another major vendor to finally deliver a mass-market Linux desktop.
The major desktop players keep flirting with the Linux community, but then they never go all the way. Take, for instance, Lenovo. Last summer, Lenovo agreed to preload Novell Inc.’s SLED 10 (SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop) on its ThinkPad T60p mobile workstation.
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Personally, I had completely forgotten about the Lenovo-SLED deal.
Novell is sitting on a Gold mine right now as we read this article if they marketed SLED and pre-installed it on the drive it would be a hot item. SuSE has a slick desktop that would be welcomed by the end user community not only that no more malware/spyware disasters waiting to happen.
Red Hat pretty much abandoned the desktop so be it Novell needs to take this opportunity and go for broke. They only have customers and money to be made. If they sell it people would pay money for Linux compatitble software if they bought a machine with it pre-loaded. They spend it on Windows and people would not think twice about buying it for a Linux box.
Like the old saying goes, if you write the code they will come!
Yes and Redhat made a good move in doing that, server is where Linux was at the time but they still contribute in may ways.
Now it’s enterprise/desktop time and Novell history in business choices is not good, I wouldn’t follow them because you may end up over a cliff.
I’m predicting it’ll be the non-free version of SUSE or SLED not Ubuntu. People don’t want to have to load stuff on their computers if they don’t have to, they want stuff to be readily available. SUSE comes with a lot of non-OSS stuff, which is one reason why its my distro of choice.
If a person wants to use Microsoft Bob 2……….I mean Vista, that is their choice ,I don’ care , spend hundreds of dollars on a pile of crap. As a Linux user, I want a choice. At the very least, they need to offer a no OS option.
I think the original goal of canonical was to create custom linux distros to make money. I think they did that with a country that had asked for a custom distro built. Now that Ubuntu is where its at and its repo is gaining in size. Now would be a good time to offer there services to these oem companies helping them create custom versions of ubuntu to run how they want with all the source making its way over to mainline Ubuntu. The problem with Ubuntu is that newer version come out every six months and that is something an oem company might not want to support. Ubuntu should create a yearly version for the oem’s based on every other release. They should make sure updating from a cd is possible and flawless. Being oem companies they can probably flip the bill for any proprietary software needed by having these already configured and installed.
The problem with Ubuntu is that newer version come out every six months and that is something an oem company might not want to support. Ubuntu should create a yearly version for the oem’s based on every other release
Which is why they released 6.06 LTS (long-term support) last year!
There is a hurdle here and imho it is up to the Linux world to suggest a way over it.
For a Dell or any direct-sales outfit, the hurdle is this: Linux is a less attractive financial option. Sell a box with Linux and you will get no income from crapware merchants, no grants from Microsoft and a distinct possibility of higher support costs. You may also get less chance of profitable upselling (the customer orders a better graphics card, e.g.) and this customer may turn out to be the low-end el cheapo type that no business really wants. Then to cap it all, the customer expects to pay less for his Linux machine than if it had Windows on it.
“Multi-thousand” deals where the hardware and the software are rolled up together aren’t a problem. If the deal were large enough, outfits like Dell or HP would happily install OS Kit-E-Kat if the customer wanted. The problem lies with the traditional one-off or small order off yer website, the bread and butter of the Dells and OEMs of this world.
I don’t know an easy answer to this. Babbling about “choice” is no solution to a company in business to make a profit and where a choice of Linux might lead to lower income. “Choice” in this case implies a knowledgeable customer interested in technology – probably only a few per cent your potential market.
Either way, I suspect it will take a few years for the gross distortions of the Wintel monopoly to work their way out of the marketplace. A bit of legislation might help to prise away Microsoft’s loathsome grip, but I guess that’s pretty unlikely given the kind of politicians we have these days.
Anyway, yes, I would love for Dell and HP to do more for Linux, but I don’t think it is easy as pie.
HP and Novell. Could be a marriage made in heaven.
So… is it ready now?
outside of deals for corporations it’ll never happen. The support alone would be a nightmare for HP and Dell.
The local screwdriver shop is the only retail channel Linux will ever have and the only channel capable of handling the support.
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Novell does seem to be hard at work regarding interoperability. And we have already seen concrete benefits. Or would you prefer to just take their technology while trashing their company? The license that Novell uses, the GPL, does allow for that, after all.
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The problem with the patent deal is that it only applies to Novell’s customers which is not intended in the GPL. Novell distributes GPL’d software. It’s as simple as that.