Home > Fedora Core > Fedora 7 Released Fedora 7 Released Submitted by anonymous 2007-05-31 Fedora Core 89 Comments Fedora 7 has been released. The release features GNOME 2.18, KDE 3.5.6, fast user switching, hotplugging of display devices, a new theme, kvm, the exprimental Nouveau driver, and much more. Read the release notes, and download or view screenshots. About The Author Thom Holwerda Follow me on Twitter @thomholwerda 89 Comments 2007-05-31 6:05 pm Xaero_Vincent A brand new release of my favorite Linux distribution. Downloading now. 😀 2007-05-31 6:13 pm ou_ryperd Ditto. Been running Rawhide since I installed the 7 test 4 KDE live CD. Rocking. 2007-05-31 6:12 pm Flatline I’ve got it installed now, and it seems nice (if a bit vanilla, as Fedora releases tend to be). I haven’t tried out the display hotplugging, etc. yet, but I can tell you that the nouveau driver wasn’t installed for my Nvidia card by default; I will drop it in manually after I poke around a bit, I guess. Yum is still slow, but that is to be expected…it does seem faster than it was on FC6 though, so kudos to the team for the improvement. I’ll use it as my primary workstation for a while to see what I really think of it. 2007-05-31 6:24 pm Maners In Fedora 7, yum does not download rpm headers anymore and depsolver is several times (I guess it was 7x) faster than the one in FC6. The slowdown is mainly caused by networking and the mirrors are obviously slow today. I think yum would seem faster if it could simultaneously connect to several mirrors, as apt does. Still, Yum is going to be faster in each subsequent release, because this is the main focus of development AFAIK, and also addition of yum-presto plugin which downloads delta-rpms for updates (these are binary “patches” or “diffs” to currently installed version) will save about 70%-95% MB of download. Yum-presto is already available in F7 and FC6 but not enabled by default because it needs more testing and official mirrors do not support it yet. 2007-05-31 6:29 pm Flatline Didn’t know about yum-presto; that sounds promising. Like I said, yum seems faster than in FC6 (even with the mirrors getting slammed), which is a “thank the good Lord” kind of improvement. It used to drive me nuts in earlier versions. 2007-05-31 6:38 pm Maners to enable yum-presto: yum install yum-presto and in /etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-updates.repo file add the following line in [updates] section: deltaurl=http://www.lesbg.com/jdieter/updates/f$releasever/$basearch 2007-05-31 7:42 pm dhardison I would also expect yum to speed up once the rush to upgrade dies down a little… 2007-05-31 6:14 pm rx182 How’s the LiveCD installer? Is it the good old Anaconda? I’m tempted to install Fedora with the LiveCD this time. Save 1 dvd plus some bandwidth… 2007-05-31 6:29 pm Maners yes, this is the Anaconda installer but updated specifically for Live installation – it’s very similar to the “normal” Anaconda. Additionally, the LiveCD comes with Gparted and NTFS-3G thanks to which I was able to resize Windows partitions to make room for Fedora on my computer at work without loosing any data 🙂 2007-06-02 8:25 pm MightyPenguin I had some issues with the KDE RC2 CD. It would *seem* to me that the live images might not get as much testing as the full install media. 2007-05-31 6:34 pm elanthis “but I can tell you that the nouveau driver wasn’t installed for my Nvidia card by default” Well, duh. That would be a total disaster if it did. It’s a pre-alpha almost-kinda-maybe-working driver at this point. The vast majority of regular users have no need nor desire to subject themselves to that, and thus there’s no compelling reason to install it by default. The technophiles who’d want to play with it can easily install it from the repos. 2007-05-31 6:42 pm Flatline Actually, it was installed by default, but X was not configured to utilize it. Splitting hairs, I know 😉 2007-05-31 7:28 pm fretinator Famous last words: Not trying to start a Debian v. Fedora war or anything, but [EDIT]Oops, posted as reply to wrong comment. Still true, if you look below Edited 2007-05-31 19:29 2007-05-31 11:02 pm MamiyaOtaru Well, duh. That would be a total disaster if it did. It’s a pre-alpha almost-kinda-maybe-working driver at this point. From nouveau’s FAQ: 1.4. When can we expect a working driver? For 2D there are still some known bugs but nouveau should work the same as the nv Xorg driver. … 1.5. What is the current status of the driver? … 2D works as well as nv driver from Xorg with a few additional features. … It’s basically the same as the nv driver, only deobfuscated. Might as well use it instead of nv, if you can’t ship with the binary driver nv default. 2007-06-01 12:06 am adamk It’s basically the same as the nv driver, only deobfuscated. Might as well use it instead of nv, if you can’t ship with the binary driver nv default. Right… Then these have an opengl screensaver kick in and the entire X server crashes. You’ll never see that happen with the ‘nv’ driver 🙂 Adam 2007-05-31 6:51 pm brewmastre Not trying to start a Debian v. Fedora war or anything, but what does Fedora offer that Debian doesn’t? I have only used Fedora once for a very short time, it seemed slow so I blew it away and reinstalled Ubuntu. I guess I was just wondering if people could give me, and probably others, some insight into what makes Fedora as popular as it is. Thanks. 2007-05-31 7:03 pm MightyPenguin http://polishlinux.org/choose/comparison?distro1=Fedora&distro2=Deb… A little dated (FC5) but probably still largely true. I personally skipped down to the security section. That’s where I find the biggest differences between Fedora and other distros. “(8) SELinux is included in the default install. Fedora Core offers a whole bunch of extra security features like Exec-Shield, Compile Time Buffer Checks, ELF, Data Hardening, Restricted Kernel Memory access and more.” Few other distros have that many security features. (you hear me ubuntu?) 2007-06-02 2:34 pm aquila_deus Few other distros have that many security features. (you hear me ubuntu?) windows? 2007-05-31 7:06 pm B. Janssen brewmastre: Not trying to start a Debian v. Fedora war or anything, but what does Fedora offer that Debian doesn’t? I have only used Fedora once for a very short time, it seemed slow so I blew it away and reinstalled Ubuntu. I guess I was just wondering if people could give me, and probably others, some insight into what makes Fedora as popular as it is. Thanks. Fedora 7 is more up-to-date than Debian Etch and more concerned about user freedom than Ubuntu 7.04. Fedora’s package management is RPM-based and yum is very slow compared to Debian’s deb-based apt-get. Booting speed and general snappyness seem to be behind Debian Etch, but everything is very polished and reliable. Everything so far seems to be configurable with a GUI tool, if stuff like this is important for you. The release notes page highlights some other very advanced features of Fedora, e. g. the Fedora Directory Server, that are lacking in Etch. I would say that on the desktop you cannot get a better mainstream distribution at the moment — and I’m an old Debian hand. For the server stay with Debian or CentOS. 2007-05-31 8:08 pm Xaero_Vincent Fedora’s package management is RPM-based and yum is very slow compared to Debian’s deb-based apt-get. Probably not anymore as of Fedora 7. Yum was never really slow for me but I cannot complain about it being significantly faster now. I heard someone say about 7x faster at solving dependencies than F6 Yum. Edited 2007-05-31 20:12 2007-05-31 9:04 pm siimo You are right Yum has come a long way since the slow FC3 days when a lot of people only used Yum to install apt4rpm. With FC6 even I found Yum very fast they are certainly making it quicker with every release. 2007-06-01 12:35 am leech Woo Hoo! This is the one thing that made me keep coming back to Debian. RPMs and Yum were so slow it’d piss me off just watching every time a package was installed. I may have to give this a try. Maybe I’ll wipe out Ubuntu on my laptop…. 2007-06-01 2:51 am siimo How often do you install packages anyway!! 2007-06-01 3:39 am sbergman27 “”” How often do you install packages anyway!! “”” Fedora Core 6 has had an average of about 160 update rpms per month since October 24. (total: 1128.) So if you have *everything* installed, about 5-6 packages a day. Less depending upon what you have installed. Edited 2007-06-01 03:42 2007-06-01 4:05 am leech Personally I like to test out different software, so that I can say “Hey, you should switch to Linux, they have the software that could replace what you do in Windows and it’s free.” I’ve done this with several people, especially since in a lot of instances, the software in Linux is better than that which is in Windows, or even some older software that is no longer being developed (like Personal Ancestry File, a genealogy program) and there is a better one (GRAMPS). 2007-06-01 1:51 pm rondeth I have an HP laptop (Athlon64 3400, 1GB RAM, slow hard drive); nice in its day, but starting to get a little long in the tooth. For some reason, the Fedora releases feel much ‘snappier’ than Ubuntu on the same hardware (even with some of the common ‘performance tweaks’). YMMV, of course; on my desktop, Fedora still has an edge (IMO), but not near as much. Of course, desktop ‘snappiness’ is quite subjective. I’m just saying the way menus pop open, apps seem to start quicker, the system just feels more responsive with Fedora to me. The only reason I primarily use Ubuntu on my laptop is a) it’s still a damn nice distro and b) it makes setting up my particular wireless card a breeze. Cheers! Edited 2007-06-01 13:52 2007-05-31 7:16 pm njpatel Not trying to start a Debian v. Fedora war or anything, but what does Fedora offer that Debian doesn’t? I have only used Fedora once for a very short time, it seemed slow so I blew it away and reinstalled Ubuntu. I guess I was just wondering if people could give me, and probably others, some insight into what makes Fedora as popular as it is. Thanks. Since you asked so kindly , I’ll list a few things that has/will always keep me with Fedora (in no particular order): * It’s about as rock-solid as a desktop-based distribution can get. They integrate/develop many security-based programs into Fedora. They have an exceptional package-review policy, which has never failed *me* during an update. * Fedora is free in the true meaning of free. Yes, that means a basic desktop (compared to say, Ubuntu) for most people, but its easy to find/install proprietary-licensed packages. * They keep Gnome as close to the default as possible, and its easy to figure out what they have patched and why. Also, every patch is quick to be sent upstream. * Rpm/Yum is my friend, although I acknowledge it isn’t everybody’s . Yes, it has things about it that annoy me, but seriously, doesn’t every distro have something that could be done better? 2007-05-31 7:25 pm eelco Well, since both Fedora and Ubuntu are mainstream Gnome centric Linux distros, the difference is probably not that big. I think the biggest difference is the community. Ubuntu has quite a following. Even though i use Fedora, i find myself reading the Ubuntu forum and wiki quite a lot whenever i need to fix something. 2007-05-31 7:07 pm bkurt78 Yep, Fedora is pretty impressive when it comes to its cutting edge security features. More can be found out at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security/Features . Not to mention their outstanding virtualization integration with virt-manager that integrates kvm and xen functionality into on management package. Then there is also fedora directory server which just an outstanding directory server and matches Red Hat directory server feature wise as far as I know at this point. Also, if you are like me and work with Linux for a living in a professional environment it is invaluable to see what is coming in RHEL down the road today with Fedora. Edited 2007-05-31 19:08 2007-05-31 7:24 pm brewmastre All of you who responded…Thanks! Coming from an OpenBSD background I can appreciate any attempt to be more secure. Also having worked with a lot of Solaris systems, I can appreciated sacrificing a little speed for more reliability and stability. Currently I run Ubuntu on my desktop at work, and as much as I like the speed of it and the user-friendliness of APT, I am getting a little tired of it’s quirks. The longer it stays up without a reboot, the slower it gets. If Fedora is as good as some of you say, I will give it another shot and see how it feels. Thanks again. 2007-05-31 8:21 pm larwilliams I have never seen APT get slower the longer a computer is running. APT has always been quick and rock-solid for me. 2007-05-31 11:14 pm brewmastre I have never seen APT get slower the longer a computer is running. APT has always been quick and rock-solid for me. No, I’m sorry if my statement was vague. I meant that my Ubuntu system, as a whole, gets slower the longer it runs without a reboot. APT for me is also is also fast and rock solid. As much as I do love Ubuntu and I do think it has come incredibly far in its short life, I still think it needs more work; or maybe I just need a change. Regardless of which it may be, I will now go download FC7 and see if I have a new favorite. Maybe I just have Linux A.D.D. and can’t stick with any distro too long 2007-05-31 7:34 pm chocobanana Way to go Fedora devs. Now here’s just a personal recommendation/wish for the developers: Please make boot times incredibily fast on next release! Thanks for F7 2007-05-31 7:51 pm fretinator Fantasy: Thanks Fedora devs, take some time off, you deserve it! Reality: Looks good, but I’m waiting for features X and Y. When is 8 coming out? 2007-05-31 8:19 pm Rahul See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/Schedule 2007-05-31 7:56 pm mkone As I type here (on the same computer of course). Must say, I like this livecd installation routine. Installation is now such a breeze. Well, it has been for sometime, but it is a far cry from the days when I could actually fall asleep waiting for installation to complete. Looking nice, of course. A bit vanilla, as someone put it. I like to think of it as a blank canvas. Nothing wrong with that. Edited 2007-05-31 19:58 2007-05-31 8:24 pm mkone I can confirm that yum is now faster. MUCH faster. I was not expecting the speedup I saw just now as I was trying to get something installed. Installing tomboy (new install so no mono etc). It did dependency resolution for that in less than a second here. Impressive! 2007-06-01 4:08 am glyj I’ll have a look to compare it to urpmi and yast as soon as i’ve download them….(it’s quite slow here…:-( ) ++ 2007-05-31 8:25 pm SK8T this is offtopic, so please don’t mod me down now ^^ Because I don’t want to attack anyone with my following sentence. But I’m just wondering that the Linux and OpenSource News get so much recommendations and a lot of comments in the most cases; and the windows (microsoft) news not that much. Where are all the 90% Windows users? Aren’t they reading OSNews.com? They should, they don’t know what they are missing — take it as a joke — Edit: typos Edited 2007-05-31 20:28 2007-06-01 1:03 am gilboa Actually, it’s ~95% vs… 3%? (I’m guessing here) However, A. You might be surprised by that… But most of that 95% are computer-illiterate desktop users that can’t tell the difference between Microsoft Windows Vista and OSX / Linux if their life dependent on it. (People around me still fail to understand that my Desktop is KDE w/composite and not Vista…) B. OSNews is about, well, OS news and most of the OS’ out there are -not- MS based. (Just compare the huge number of Linux, *BSD and Unix distributions/variants to… 7 versions of Windows [in ~14 years?] and you’ll understand my point). Again, pure guess, but people who care only about Windows, will spend less time in OSNews and more in MS-only sites. C. OSNews readers, being (much) more tech-savvy (if not actual developers/IT managers/admins/etc) tend to be much more open to alternative OS’. D. As such (C), you’ll have much more people using Linux/OSX/BSD in OSNews then in other, less OS-centric sites. – Gilboa 2007-06-01 10:29 pm SK8T ah, okay you’re right. And that’s an interesating point. Some people say the mac user would be the most “non-technical” group of all computers users, not prooven to fight maleware, viruses, don’t know how to react on software failures and so on…, and not the Windows users (it’s not my opinion but I know people that tink so). So can we say it’s a problem that windows users does not see alternative operating systems and are not open minded to it? I think, it’s the human nature that says: “many people uses this/are doing it this way, this can only be the right/best way”. 2007-06-02 6:52 am gilboa OSX bunch is wierd combo. On one end you’ve got people that bought the machine because it’s cool (or has a very cool interface), on the other hand you have computer literate people who got fed up by Windows or, like my sister, require MAC’s unique capabuilities for work. (E.g. computer graphics). As Windows, don’t forget that most people just get it pre-installed with their machine, and never touch it again. (Unless it breaks, and then they pay someone to fix it). It’s not a matter of being open-minded or not. E.g. my parents… They use Windows because, well, I bought it with the computer and installed it. (Mostly because there are way-too-many-IE-only sites in Israel). Like 90% of the windows users out there, they don’t really care if it Linux or Windows… they just need to work. When the IE problem finally gets resolved (Will it? – AFAIK Microsoft is putting a lot of $$$ to get major sites to use IIS and IE-related tools… I wonder why…) I’ll replace Windows with Linux, and given past experience I have in switching people to Linux, if done right, it will be less painful then switching to Vista. IMHO, Linux (and the rest of the non-Windows bunch) should -not- fight over joe-six-pack. The added value of getting joe-six-pack’s home computer to use Linux is minute compared to the efforts required to get there. We (as in the community) should fight over the IT and enthusiasts market share. Get them, and they push Linux (*BSD, OSX and Solaris) into their workplace/home/parent’s computer/etc for us. – Gilboa 2007-06-02 9:39 am h3rman IMHO, Linux (and the rest of the non-Windows bunch) should -not- fight over joe-six-pack. The added value of getting joe-six-pack’s home computer to use Linux is minute compared to the efforts required to get there. We (as in the community) should fight over the IT and enthusiasts market share. Get them, and they push Linux (*BSD, OSX and Solaris) into their workplace/home/parent’s computer/etc for us. Right on. Hear hear! The thing is, though, those parties involved in the Linux business whose business model is (totally legit) to conquer the corporate/desktop market via the desktop (Canonical, for instance), *will* “fight over joe-six-pack”. 2007-05-31 8:41 pm fepede I’d like to replace the CentOS 5 on my laptop to gain some battery time and to reduce heat thanks to the new tickless kernel. Has anyone running Fedora 7 impression to share on this topic? Thank you 🙂 2007-06-01 11:31 am kaiwai The tickless kernel is only on i386 and unfortunately it will be a while before drivers are updated to take advantage of that feature. 2007-05-31 8:51 pm dammage Ok, installing livna stuff is not a problem, but I wish, I could avoid that mp3 lock-up at last. If anyone has a list of available ogg vorbis stations, post it please Personally, one of the bigger problems for the linux desktop nowadays is that the RIAA dirt is encoded in mp3/wma (unfortunately indy and CC stuff, too ) and all the pr0n is not in theora. Ubuntu goes the way of warning users that they might violate some patents by using codecs covered by software patents in their countries. CSS is illegal in a lot of countries. OpenSUSE doesn’t install any video codecs at all and the mp3 players are either helix or *hmpf* real player. Fedora installs players without any non-free codecs at all and you have, same as with opensuse, add additional repositories. Joe Luser will never do it and he won’t it doesn’t just work (TM). Well, it can be done, like ubuntu does, but I believe the better way would be to start to release own stuff in free formats as vorbis or theora … So, point to stuff, point please 2007-06-03 12:19 am Finalzone If you open Rhythmbox, it provides a plethora list of these stations including Jameson and Magnatune. It also even include some radio stations using Vorbis format. 2007-05-31 8:59 pm Xaero_Vincent * Automatic hotplugging display devices (X-server 1.3) * Core and Extras merged and better security auditing * Fedora Directory Server (like Active Directory) * New 80211Mac (Devicescape) network stack * Tickless kernel (better power management) * Comprehensive SELinux GUI config tool * New installable Live CDs including KDE * SELinux troubleshooting tool included * More open community involvement * New FOSS Nvidia driver (testing) * Much faster Yum, Pirut, Pup * Wireless firmware included * KVM (Kernel Virtulization) * Latest software packages * Improved I18N support * Smolt (hardware tool) * Fast User Switching * New desktop theme * New Firewire stack * New libata driver * Liberation fonts Edited 2007-05-31 21:00 2007-05-31 11:11 pm diskinetic I modded you up because you listed it in a Monk-ishly perfect array. Aaaaall in a row of descending sizes. Good. edited for being basically wrong. Edited 2007-05-31 23:15 2007-05-31 9:26 pm mkone Eh. There is a reason it is not chosen by default. It is very buggy. I would say don’t try it at home, but I hazard most people won’t try it on their work PCs. You have been warned. Good release though (Fedora 7 that is) 2007-05-31 10:04 pm anyweb http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3006 2007-05-31 10:37 pm Finalzone Desktop users will be glad xdg (aka Portland) is also implemented for this release. Inside home iser directory, user will see: * Applications * Download * Videos * Music * Templates 2007-06-02 4:02 pm chris_dk Applications? How does that make sense in Fedora where you install rpm packages? 2007-05-31 11:30 pm buff I have had a pretty good experience with Fedora 7 so far. I have noticed that yum is faster than version 6. Also, my USB drives appear to be mounting/unmounting correctly. I haven’t run into any crashes or noticeable bugs yet. It seems they have spent more time testing this release. Probably since they merged the core and extras repos. all the packages had to be retested. The option to install XFCE wasn’t available with the installer. After installation I opened up a shell and issued the command “yum groupinstall XFCE.” One small problem I had to deal with was Java 1.6 and the Seamonkey browser wouldn’t run. I had to install the standard C++ libraries RPM. Those packages came from outside of Fedora so it is more of a packaging issue with Mozilla and Sun. Edited 2007-05-31 23:34 2007-06-01 2:25 am Excel Hearts Choi I have played with the KDE live CD, but not installed it as of yet. The lack of feedback from pirut/pup really adds to the feeling that yum is slow. Can anybody comment to more feedback in Fedora 7? 2007-06-01 3:48 am ozonehole Some have commented that Fedora feels a little slower overall than Ubuntu. I’m wondering if this is because of the default filesystem? I haven’t yet installed FC7, but I did try FC6 and didn’t see any option to install XFS, which is very fast and is what I use with Ubuntu. As I recall, Fedora defaults to ext3. If there’s a way to get Fedora working with XFS, I’d certainly be interested. 2007-06-01 4:05 am sbergman27 “”” If there’s a way to get Fedora working with XFS, I’d certainly be interested. “”” I think you can type “linux xfs” at the isolinux prompt, but I’m not certain. Both Ubuntu and Fedora use ext3 in the default data=ordered mode. Personally, I think that XFS is overrated. It has this mystique that comes from SGI having written it. But it has strengths and weaknesses like any other filesystem. For large streaming reads and writes from a raid array, I’m sure it does quite well. But for desktop use, I don’t think there is much difference. It is, however, more fragile than most of the other Linux filesystems due to certain design decisions that were made which made more sense on SGI hardware than on regular x86. You’d actually probably be making a better speed/robustness tradeoff by setting your ext3 FSes to data=writeback. But it gives me the warm fuzzies to know that my machines have the extra assurance of data=ordered. Edited 2007-06-01 04:10 2007-06-01 4:14 am jlacroix New theme? Yay, Clearlooks again. Whatever happened to the cool theme in FC5? 2007-06-01 4:27 am sbergman27 “”” Whatever happened to the cool theme in FC5? “”” The bubbles? They fizzled. DNA seemed a bit cold to me. I do like their new look though. 🙂 ====== Up Up And Away Would you like to ride in my beautiful balloon Would you like to ride in my beautiful balloon We could float among the stars together, you and I For we can fly, we can fly Up, up and away My beautiful, my beautiful balloon The world’s a nicer place in my beautiful balloon It wears a nicer face in my beautiful balloon We can sing a song and sail along the silver sky For we can fly we can fly Up, up and away My beautiful, my beautiful balloon Suspended under a twilight canopy We’ll search the clouds for a star to guide us If by some chance you find yourself loving me We’ll find a cloud to hide us We’ll keep the moon beside us Love is waiting there in my beautiful balloon Way up in the air in my beautiful balloon If you’ll hold my hand we’ll chase your dream across the sky For we can fly we can fly Up, up and away My beautiful, my beautiful balloon by Jimmy Webb Edited 2007-06-01 04:27 2007-06-04 7:37 am t4inted You hear me(x3) Up, up and away in my beautiful my beautiful Up, up and away in my beautiful my beautiful balloon(x2) Now get out! Gimme(x28) Give me a ride! Hot ride in my air balloon Skippin fast right around the moon On a bullet train out of town Walkie talkie, one hand down! You hear me(x2) Up, up and away in my beautiful, my beautiful Up, up and away in my beautiful, my beautiful balloon(x2) I’ll put you out! Gimme(x28) Give me a ride! Gimme(x28) Give me a ride! Hot ride in my air balloon Skippin fast right around the moon On a bullet train out of town Walkie talkie, one hand down Hot ride in my air balloon Skipping fast right around the moon Minds made up, theres no luck when time leaves you Hot ride in my air balloon Skipping fast right around the moon Times made up, theres no luck when time leaves you You gotta… PUSH IT! PUSH IT! Hotride by Prodigy 🙂 2007-06-01 6:01 am happycamper I like it, omg ponies, i’m heading to the download mirrors! 2007-06-01 9:33 am JCooper Having not used Gnome 2.18 yet, is the revised System > Preferences menu part of Gnome, or a Fedora patch? http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/828/23.gif I like it! Edit – fixed typo Edited 2007-06-01 09:49 2007-06-01 10:17 am Rahul I believe that it’s a patch. It makes a long list of preferences more organized. Glad you liked it. 2007-06-01 2:47 pm rx182 Hmm. Before installing a new distribution on my laptop, I always test it in VMware to spot major issues. Unfortunately, Fedora 7 won’t find the VMware SCSI HDD during the installation. You have to use the old IDE HDD. This is a serious lack of testing. I know that the latest kernel makes IDE disks appear as they were SCSI disks but maybe this is unrelated. I think I will wait a few weeks and get a respin… 2007-06-01 5:51 pm Rahul ” I know that the latest kernel makes IDE disks appear as they were SCSI disks but maybe this is unrelated. ” It is very much related. VMWare just needs to adopt. There isn’t much Fedora can do about this. Every distribution which is going to libata following Fedora is going to run into the same issue. 2007-06-02 7:10 am gilboa Actually the problem is referring to is not related to libata switch. Seems that new(er) kernel, running as guests under VMWare do not detect the VMWare-emulated LSI SCSI disks due to breakage in the LSI-emulation->mptbase driver. According to a number of threads I saw in LKML, this is a VMWare issue. In general, someone @VMWare forgot to wake up. A lot of people (including myself) are getting numerous crashes (both host and guest) when using newer (>= 2.6.19) kernels. – Gilboa “waiting for VT/SVN-less KVM to be released” Davara. Edited 2007-06-02 07:11 UTC 2007-06-02 8:17 am netpython this is a VMWare issue. I doubt it because fedora core 7 couldn’t handle a trivial raid0 (2 SATA’s) setup with a separate boot partition on /dev/sda1 on my amd64 system.Only the default partitioning sheme with lvm worked. In addition it seems they haven’t addressed the nvidia driver install issue.as far as i looked at it a simple SELinux policy issue. 2007-06-02 8:55 am Rahul RAID and SELinux bugs are completely unrelated to vmware. Bugzilla #? 2007-06-02 11:40 am gilboa Again, AFAICS, he’s not talking about host SCSI devices (problem like your own) he’s talking about guest SCSI which is a known VMWare issue. . – Gilboa  http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/3/23/345 2007-06-02 12:58 pm rx182 Again, AFAICS, he’s not talking about host SCSI devices (problem like your own) he’s talking about guest SCSI which is a known VMWare issue. . Exactly 😉 2007-06-02 7:00 am gilboa It’s a known -VMWare- issue. Seems that changes in the kernel mptbase driver exposed a bug in their SCSI emulation. Just switch to IDE and it’ll work just fine. (I’m using VMWare to test RAWHIDE for years now…) – Gilboa 2007-06-02 7:13 am zaine_ridling Gilboa makes good points. As a windows user who’s long had a second Linux machine for background tasks, I find myself spending more and more time on the Fedora machine. Like others, I went through a dozen distros — all new releases — and kept returning to Fedora because of its rock-solid stability. And Gilboa’s right about another thing: make Fedora7 default installed OS on a machine and set them to work, and as long as they could update their system and find the productivity software (hell, even I can do that), then even grandpa wouldn’t notice a difference. Besides, it’s a good thing NOT to be like Windows. And finally, yes, it’s not about market share — never will be; it’s about quality, open software. PS: Fedora7 recognized my new 22″ monitor and my new HP printer (I don’t know how). Both were not recognized by Vista. Manufacturers told me to wait till SP1. By then I’ll be fully switched. Go figure. Edited 2007-06-02 07:14 2007-06-02 12:11 pm anyweb to install the firmware properly in F7 do this http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3014 cheers anyweb 2007-06-02 10:00 pm Jason Bourne I have dropped Fedora since the Red Hat days, when installation started to require 3 discs and over. Recently I have tried Ubuntu Feisty Fawn and this time, for the first time, I almost definitely switch from Windows XP SP2 to Linux… Yes, it was “almost” there. And I made a list of things that kept me from dropping Windows. You will see that it has nothing to do about certain distro features against another distro. In order of importance: 1) Lack of Flash Player 64-bit in Firefox. 2) Kopete or aMSN have no voice calling support. 3) Skype Linux has no video support as of yet. 4) Foobar2000 doesn’t have a native binary for Linux. 5) My Webcam DLink DSB-110 works but too dark. 6) Boot time is slower than XP. I know that some of those are just a question of time to be implemented. But until there, I will stick with Windows. And as you see… it had nothing to do with Fedora being more capable than Ubuntu or distro rivalry. Ubuntu now certainly has taken the lead, and Fedora is doing its best to catch-up with Ubuntu. This is good because it set standards apart from the others. But if one is intending to reach the lead ASAP is to fullfill the silly needs users have. Ubuntu did with proprietary drivers and proprietary codecs, and did good. We don’t really care for SELinux or stuff like that. Edited 2007-06-02 22:05 2007-06-02 11:22 pm Finalzone 1) Lack of Flash Player 64-bit in Firefox. It is well know there is no Flash Player 64-bit on any x86-64 operating system therefore a Linux distribution cannot be blamed. Ask Adobe to support it. It is possible to run Flash Player 32-bit on a 64-bit Firefox using nspluginwrapper. 2) Kopete or aMSN have no voice calling support. 3) Skype Linux has no video support as of yet. Working in progress. The goal for each developer is to provide a stable support and less hack as possible. 4) Foobar2000 doesn’t have a native binary for Linux. Request that to developers. There should be an equivalent available like Amarok, Audacious to name a few. 5) My Webcam DLink DSB-110 works but too dark. Looks like a obscure legacy Webcam. E Have you tried to ajust bright/contrast? 6) Boot time is slower than XP. That’s debatable at best. Some users have reported the opposite. Frankly, does that make difference if an Operating System boot 30 seconds slower? Ubuntu now certainly has taken the lead, and Fedora is doing its best to catch-up with Ubuntu. This is good because it set standards apart from the others. But if one is intending to reach the lead ASAP is to fullfill the silly needs users have. Ubuntu did with proprietary drivers and proprietary codecs, and did good. We don’t really care for SELinux or stuff like that. Both distributions have different philosophies. Ubuntu is mostly desktop oriented traditional sense while Fedora is all about getting the cutiest free and open source technologies available. For example dbus, hal, udev are the technologies provided by Fedora developers accessible to other distribution so it is a win-win situation. Edited 2007-06-02 23:30 2007-06-03 2:11 am Jason Bourne It is well know there is no Flash Player 64-bit on any x86-64 operating system therefore a Linux distribution cannot be blamed. Ask Adobe to support it. It is possible to run Flash Player 32-bit on a 64-bit Firefox using nspluginwrapper. I don’t get Adobe’s point. It would be so easy to release a 64-bit Flash Player and make it available. I still want to understand why it takes so long for them to compile a 64-bit compatible player. I don’t blame Linux, in fact, Linux x86-64 is way ahead than XP Pro x64. In XP Pro x64 loads of drivers don’t work (including my webcam). It have tried to install the nspluginwrapper in Firefox but had no success – even Skype alpha was “easier” to install. 2) Kopete or aMSN have no voice calling support. 3) Skype Linux has no video support as of yet. Working in progress. The goal for each developer is to provide a stable support and less hack as possible. 4) Foobar2000 doesn’t have a native binary for Linux. Request that to developers. There should be an equivalent available like Amarok, Audacious to name a few. It’s about time the Messengers have got video/voice support! Skype video is under its way and latest alpha is a great improvement, almost on pair with its Windows counterpart. As for foobar2000 it is said in Hydrogenaudio.org that the developer is not interested in porting it to Linux. (Although he might any time because of the so many whining). I personally don’t think Amarok or Audacious are on pair with foobar2000 specially when you use the file management features like audio conversion, FLAC to mp3, FLAC to WAV, ReplayGain, Masstagging, 20-band EQ, true gapless playback. Foobar2000 runs under WINE but the point is that foobar2000 had everything to be the leading linux player. 5) My Webcam DLink DSB-110 works but too dark. Looks like a obscure legacy Webcam. E Have you tried to ajust bright/contrast? They say it’s legacy in the site, but believe me, it’s not a year yet since I bought it. I believe it’s because the driver can’t still get the best out of it. It uses the gpsca/sn9x102 bridge. It has its adjustments but nothing compares to the Windows image. 6) Boot time is slower than XP. That’s debatable at best. Some users have reported the opposite. Frankly, does that make difference if an Operating System boot 30 seconds slower? My Windows XP has a fast load, I don’t allow applications to load with it, no Spyware, no Anti-Virus load with it. Its RAM load after boot is around 99-120 MB, it’s a very taken care system, couple of services disabled. I might see some situation where a user will definitely make XP turn into a slow slug. For me, Ubuntu was slower. I have to watch that orange bar for almost 1 full minute, and from XP boot to XP login I just have to wait 18 seconds. 2007-06-03 5:00 am netpython I personally don’t think Amarok or Audacious are on pair with foobar2000 specially when you use the file management features like audio conversion, FLAC to mp3, FLAC to WAV I use audacity most of the times for converting audio formats and analysis. The GUI interface of foobar2000 is arguably archaic. 2007-06-03 8:41 am Finalzone I don’t get Adobe’s point. It would be so easy to release a 64-bit Flash Player and make it available. I still want to understand why it takes so long for them to compile a 64-bit compatible player. That question should be addressed to Adobe, Flash Player developer. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform It have tried to install the nspluginwrapper in Firefox but had no success It looks like you have not installed the plugin with “nspluginwrapper -i /foo/bar’ command. My Windows XP has a fast load, I don’t allow applications to load with it, no Spyware, no Anti-Virus load with it. Its RAM load after boot is around 99-120 MB, it’s a very taken care system, couple of services disabled. It is obvious your comparison is already flawed because you have a tweaked Windows XP vs a stock Ubuntu. Shouldn’t you do the same for Ubuntu or Fedora (to keep on topic)? 2007-06-03 6:38 pm Jason Bourne a) foobar2000 interface is bad, agreed. But the management it provides is not found in any other player. You also have Columns UI and Album Art Plugin, but of course not everyone is keen to customize. b) I did try to nspluginwrapper -i /foo/bar but it returned error, something like invalid plugin type. c) if you install stock XP, stock Ubuntu and stock Fedora you will notice that XP still loads faster, Ubuntu slower, and Fedora even more slower. Just make yourself a test. d) Too bad we depend on Flash nowadays, to be honest I wished this format was never the defacto standard for animations in the web. I am really sick of it. 2007-06-03 11:09 pm Finalzone b) I did try to nspluginwrapper -i /foo/bar but it returned error, something like invalid plugin type. “/foo/bar” is just an example. The path of Flash plugins should be “/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins”. The name of file is libflashplugins.so AFAIR once you have it installed. c) if you install stock XP, stock Ubuntu and stock Fedora you will notice that XP still loads faster, Ubuntu slower, and Fedora even more slower. Just make yourself a test. Not anymore in the case of Fedora 7. On my system, a stock Windows XP Professional has a slight advantage to load on login screen and slower on initializing desktop. It is a case of variable mileage depending the system. 2007-06-05 2:14 pm redtux question is is it faster to a responsive system or just to a windows screen 2007-06-03 2:07 pm mkone What has Ubuntu taken the lead in. Fedora makes it clear it is about developing a totally free and unencumbered operating system. Most of the extra stuff you can get easily, from livna, which is available for a new version even before it is released. One of the first things I did was to download the nvidia driver from livna.org, hours after Fedora was released. Fedora caters to a more diverse crowd than Ubuntu. Fedora is ahead in many respects. Especially with SELinux. Now I suppose you speak for yourself when you say SELinux is not important to you, but I like having a secure system. People can continue harping about codecs, but that is not going to change for Fedora. Redhat is a public company and has a duty to its shareholders to cover their backs. 2007-06-02 10:33 pm anyweb http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3019 (DVD+mp3 playback support/32 and 64bit) check it out cheers anyweb 2007-06-02 10:46 pm h3rman Mixing livna and freshrpms, as suggested by that link, is not a very good idea. 2007-06-02 10:49 pm anyweb and the reason for that would be ? (care to explain) 2007-06-02 11:33 pm h3rman To avoid dependency hell. Using third party repositories is all right, but I’ve had conflicting packages/dependencies when I had both Livna and Freshrpms enabled, and it’s a bit of a pain to fix it then. So these days I’m more on the conservative side when it comes to third party repos. But everybody is free to find that out for her/himself, of course. What’s more, you really don’t *need* both for that mp3 and video dvd stuff. One will do. 2007-06-03 12:49 am buff I added Livna repo and it was a breeze to install mp3, divx, and mplayer. yum install mplayer mplayer-fonts mplayer-gui. I installed the RPM for realaudio off of real.com and Flash 9 from Adobe’s site. Loaded up win32codecs and I can play Windows media, mpegs, real audio, mp3, and Flash video. I have a flash drive where I keep all my multimedia binaries and I just reinstall them when a new Fedora release comes out. Add Microsoft’s core web fonts RPM and Firefox looks great. 2007-06-05 2:12 pm redtux Far easier is install livna repo and yum install vlc gstreamer-plugins-bad (or via gui) this should install evertything you need including lame, dvdcss, mp3 dvd playing etc 2007-06-04 2:23 pm buff Ubuntu now certainly has taken the lead, and Fedora is doing its best to catch-up with Ubuntu. Meh, Ubuntu hype is old news. Ubuntu has a desktop emphasis that people like. Fedora has more of a latest and greatest technical edge to it. Playing catch-up and who is more popular are irrelevant to me. I use Fedora 7 now and it does what I need it to do. I use a distro based on how useful it is to me not whether it is popular. There are several areas where Fedora has the lead: SElinux, vitualization, Xen, etc.