Home > Fedora Core > PDF: What’s New in Fedora Core 3 PDF: What’s New in Fedora Core 3 Submitted by science_monkey 2004-09-11 Fedora Core 76 Comments Colin Charles released a PDF, showing us what’s new in Fedora Core 3. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 76 Comments 2004-09-11 4:56 pm haha, i’m using the pdf viewer from fc2, and none of the text in that pdf displays correctly. 2004-09-11 5:05 pm Which reader is it? It works over here with Gnome PDF viewer and xpdf. 2004-09-11 5:09 pm Gnome PFD Viewer is more or less a joke. xpdf does its work as it should. 2004-09-11 5:19 pm it’s gnome pdf viewer. you’d think a pdf about fedora would display it it. 2004-09-11 5:23 pm I don’t know, I prefer Gnome PDF viewer. Xpdf’s UI is plain ugly. Don’t laugh, im stuck at 800×600. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/super_science_monkey/Screensh… http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/super_science_monkey/Screensh… 2004-09-11 5:23 pm Those bug reports on the final couple of slides are hilarious! 2004-09-11 5:26 pm Uhm, Gnome PDF Viewer is based on xpdf … so xpdf is a joke too, eh? 2004-09-11 5:28 pm Ok, download the pdf then open gnome pdf then select open and you will see the pdf, i was getting problems click on the lick directly or even if i click on the file to open it via gnome pdf it doesnt want to open it, but if you open gnome pdf first then select open and open the file it works Snake 2004-09-11 5:33 pm Thanks for the tip; the bug reports are pretty funny. btw. I read them using Kghostview. 2004-09-11 5:42 pm Works great here in Windows, Adobe Acrobat Reader 6. Guess I’ll have to keep mourning my loss of freedom though as everything continues to work. 2004-09-11 5:42 pm The “horse-birth issue” – bug report is hilarious. 2004-09-11 5:51 pm may I inquire why you have PDFs? PDF is a great way to distribute documents that you do not want changed. it is a format free from royalties, works anywhere, you can make them in Open office or print to PDF in any OS X application…heck, some one even created a free PDF printer for Windows. I always send people PDFs because it guarantees that they can read it. if MS was smart they would set up a similar system in XP and longhorn…. heck it should even be a visible option for e-mailing a document (such as “send as PDF”) the best thing that PDF offers is that it retains the structure of the formating just as if you printed it out on a printer as a memo and plopped them in people’s mail boxes at work. 2004-09-11 5:56 pm How could they release it with Gnome 2.8 if it isn’t out yet ? 2004-09-11 5:58 pm in fedora only core have apt from dag, atrpms and freshrpms.. but non of them have apt support for beta’s or rc. 2004-09-11 6:02 pm i was wondering a few days ago:” haven’t heard from project utopia for a while” and wham, hal and dbus seem to be in a working state. less talk more code, perfect… 2004-09-11 6:02 pm This is getting ridiculous. I’ve just upgraded much of Fedora Core 1 with new stuff and now I’m told that I will not be getting any more updates. Again this is stupid but I suppose it’s ongoing. FC3 better have that bug fix which allows it to dual boot with windows. 2004-09-11 6:06 pm i’ve upgrated fedora core 1 to FC2 from apt without problems now i hope to upgrade too. 2004-09-11 6:08 pm >> How could they release it with Gnome 2.8 if it isn’t out yet ? FC3 isn’t out yet and Gnome 2.8 will be released in the near future. So why shouldn’t FC3 have Gnome 2.8? >> FC3 better have that bug fix which allows it to dual boot with windows. I don’t know about FC1, but FC2 runs fine together with WinXP. 2004-09-11 6:10 pm >>>I don’t know about FC1, but FC2 runs fine together with WinXP. FC1 dual boots great with XP and Win2000 (as well as 98 but I won’t go into that). 2004-09-11 6:11 pm Now if only it were as easy to upgrade Fedora as it is to upgrade Debian. Sure apt-get is available to Fedora, but it’s of absolutely no use unless it’s used by default. This is one of those ares where Debian beats the pants off of Fedora Core. 2004-09-11 6:12 pm @super_science_monkey Why laugh? Resolution is resolution and if it is good enough for you, that’s all that matters. I have 1680×1050 on my notebook. Screenshot would still look the same only larger with no additional effect except longer download time. @Sven No dispute here, but… Compare open time for large Pdf (xpdf is a lot faster, with already loaded application to put both in the same position), in most cases displayed pdf doesn’t look the same and some pdf that can’t be opened with gpdf are opened noramlly with xpf. If what you said is correct then either work is not complete yet, or they did really bad job 2004-09-11 6:23 pm >>Resolution is resolution and if it is good enough for you, that’s all that matters. Actually I usually run @ 1280×1024 but I’m having some problems getting my nvidia drivers working in Debian. I think I’ll just go and reinstall Slackware 2004-09-11 6:25 pm Fedora’s avoidance of Qt based applications where possible is ridiculous. 2004-09-11 6:34 pm I guess this question could apply to many distributions, but as this is a Fedora thread… My Debian install started as 3.0r1, and gradually became entirely sid with no major overhaul. So why do other distributions need to release major versions for people to update to, rather than just releasing new packages for the components as and when needed? 2004-09-11 6:37 pm gpdf was updated to a new xpdf codebase fairly recently, it should for the present be almost identical in rendering ability. The reason I use it is just because it doesn’t look so ugly in my gnome desktop as xpdf; it’s a long time since I had to start xpdf now anyway. 2004-09-11 6:39 pm i still can’t get the pdf to work. here is what i see: http://www.aardvarkind.com/Screenshot.png any help? 2004-09-11 6:47 pm I use Acrobat Reader for linux and I have no problem reading it. jimbo: obviously you attempt to start an uneccesary flamebait about Fedora Core 2 when you know there is plenty pdf software available including Acrobat Reader on different repository. 2004-09-11 6:52 pm honestly, i’m not trying to start a flamewar. as a fc2 user, i’m curious about fc3. i click the pdf, it opens in the default viewer, and is unreadable (see my screenshot in the previous post). i just tried opening it in gnome ghostview and it works, but i thought it was strange that the default pdf viewer didn’t work. 2004-09-11 6:55 pm jimbo: Disregard my last post. You can get Acrobat Reader rpm on DAG repository. Try it. 2004-09-11 6:55 pm “This is getting ridiculous. I’ve just upgraded much of Fedora Core 1 with new stuff and now I’m told that I will not be getting any more updates.” Nope, you’re wrong. Guess what the Fedora Legacy project is. 2004-09-11 7:12 pm but what about new X.org release? 2004-09-11 7:22 pm They’ll be including 6.8.0 from the Xorg mailing list… “Red Hat plans to include the X11R6.8 release in the the open source Fedora Core project and upcoming releases of Red Hat Desktop.” — Havoc Pennington 2004-09-11 7:27 pm >> until Linux has a REAL multi-media (applications) such as players Buddy I don’t know what your talking about… Players: -RealONE -Totem -Kaffeine … Frameworks: -helix -Gstreamer -Xine -Mplayer 2004-09-11 7:42 pm where the hell is SAX? Its a pain to get an nice resoultion and refreshrate on most monitors. Couldnt the xorg people write a nice tool for that? under windows everything looks so fine, but working 5 hours under linux gets your brain fried. 2004-09-11 7:49 pm yum as default package manager is a pain. 2004-09-11 8:04 pm You might have to configure .xpdfrc or xpdfrc in your system. Check out: http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf check out the various links, especially: http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/problems.html Its not finding your fonts, you are going to have to add ghostscript and add them to your path in XFree86Config. X font are no longer supported in xpdf. 2004-09-11 8:06 pm Feel free to use apt. 2004-09-11 8:08 pm “As for Fedora 3, I would pass it is a mess of non-functioning apps, bugs and so on. If you got plenty of time to have a machine down then it is for you. ” Perhaps you would prefer a *.doc file? *.pdf can be view on all platforms via various pdf readers. Even though Adobe controls / set the format for pdf files, it has be quite generous about opening up the format to everday users. PDF’s are a good thing. 2004-09-11 8:11 pm “As for Fedora 3, I would pass it is a mess of non-functioning apps, bugs and so on. If you got plenty of time to have a machine down then it is for you.” FC3 won’t actually exist until October 27, so I question your ability to comment on its stability. What exists now is only a release candidate of a test release. Test 2, which is only a test has not even been released yet; in fact it was pushed back from Sept 13 to Sept 20 to squash those bugs you refer to. 2004-09-11 8:13 pm Think of Fedora as providing a stable new platform every six months. In debian terms, that means running apt-get dist-upgrade every six months instead of every few years. The implication is that you get a stable desktop with major updates only ever six months instead of whenever the debian developers get around to it. Some people get tired of having things constantly upgrade and break, as I found running Sid. If debian could commit to providing stable platforms on a regular basis I’d still be using it today instead of FC2. 2004-09-11 8:13 pm ” As for Fedora 3, I would pass it is a mess of non-functioning apps, bugs and so on. If you got plenty of time to have a machine down then it is for you. ” I don’t know what you did or what kinda stuff you were smoking but ive installed FC2 several times and it worked great for me. Im currently running FC3 Test 1 with full rawhide updates so basically its FC3T2 and its rock stable for me. As for that PDF, it works great on my linux system. FC3 is looking like it will basically be FC2 with a lot of bug fixes and a few updates here and there. SELinux looks pretty nice too now. Don’t discredit an OS that isn’t even released. That would be like me saying longhorn sucks even though its not out yet. 2004-09-11 8:17 pm It would be nice if there was NO such thing as PDF files. They are a memory, cpu hog with slow loading and overall pain, much like a toothache. PDF’s are fine compared to CPU hogging Java apps/applets. They are positively evil. As for pdf’s, the Macs run them fine, Adobe will take advantage of Avalon to speed up Acrobat in Windows. There is no real effort on Linux platforms to do the same. The fault lies with the developers of Linux family of platforms. Cairo/Glitz shows some promise in helping to handle pdf’s, but so far their to vaporish. 2004-09-11 8:32 pm Show it correctly the first time and opens quickly too. 2004-09-11 8:42 pm How are cairo and glitz which I can downlaod and use right now vaporware when you seem to be asserted that Avalon is already a solid bet? 2004-09-11 9:32 pm Agreed, and I think there are plans to go to an open build system a la FreeBSD, which would eliminate the need for the whole ISO rush. 2004-09-11 9:41 pm 1) Macs draw PDFs the same way Windows and Linux do — in software. 2) Cairo/Glitz is more vaporish than Avalon? Righto… 2004-09-11 10:37 pm How are cairo and glitz which I can downlaod and use right now vaporware when you seem to be asserted that Avalon is already a solid bet? What distro has included Cairo/Glitz. The answer is none. What application is using Cairo/Glitz. The answer is none. I have never seen any real comprehensive demo of either library. Pictures on websites can be fabricated(all OS platforms are guilty of this) and in the case Cairo/Glitz they show absolutely nothing in the areas of speed and power. On the Mac, PDF viewer takes advantage of Quartz to load and render. In Avalon, WinFX and DCE will help speed things up. Hell Avalon would be out next year if the dumbasses at Microsoft weren’t so stupid in trying to force out the monsterous WinFS instead of a simpler file search functionalty like Spotlight and Beagle. 2004-09-11 11:12 pm The implication is that you get a stable desktop with major updates only ever six months instead of whenever the debian developers get around to it. Some people get tired of having things constantly upgrade and break, as I found running Sid. If debian could commit to providing stable platforms on a regular basis I’d still be using it today instead of FC2. Obiously definition of “stability” differ for ppl. I tried FC1 and realized that being a perpetual test mouse is not fun. After trauma of – Debian (stable, but with a smell), – FC1 (Only stable in when the power switch is “OFF”), – Mandrake (Tweaked beyond recognitions, better not delve beyond GUI) – RedHat (Better not stray from base, you install some stray rpm’s and dependancies hount you in your dreams.) After 6 years of self-imposed torture I returnd to Slackware, and… STABLE AND FRESH. (sl)apt-get for lazy ones , installpkg *.tgz for DIY. 2004-09-11 11:13 pm What distro has included Cairo/Glitz. http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=cair… What application is using Cairo/Glitz. http://freedesktop.org/~pippin/aluminium/ http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/build.html http://hans.breuer.org/dia/dia-cairo.htm http://www.advogato.org/person/id/ http://people.redhat.com/otaylor/guadec5/ I have never seen any real comprehensive demo of either library. Pictures on websites can be fabricated http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/glitztest http://freedesktop.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/cairo/cairo-demo/ On the Mac, PDF viewer takes advantage of Quartz to load and render. Quartz2D is software-rendered on MacOS X as of 10.3. In Avalon, WinFX and DCE will help speed things up. In Linux, Cairo will speed things up. 2004-09-11 11:18 pm In Avalon, WinFX and DCE will help speed things up. In Linux, Cairo will speed things up. Not until the steaming pile of crud that is accelerated video drivers on Linux gets sorted out. I don’t see this happening for ATI users for quite a while yet. 2004-09-11 11:41 pm Sorted out how? Accelerated video works just fine on my NVIDIA cards. If ATI’s drivers suck, go yell at them. 2004-09-12 12:25 am It would be nice if there was NO such thing as PDF files. They are a memory, cpu hog with slow loading and overall pain, much like a toothache. Uh, let’s see: PDFs are an open standard, cross platform, they can scale across the screen, they can easily embed images, they support bookmarks, password protection, encryption, etc, and they can be very high quality. What’s your alternative? DOC files? Puh-lease. 2004-09-12 12:54 am Obscure sites and experimental builds do not make Cairo/Glitz availible, especially to the mass majority, so therefore they are irrelevant. If the Developers/Distros aren’t promoting/using Cairo/Glitz to the masses, what is that say to the regular user(it’s vaporware). Till Cairo/Glitz is included with GDE/KDE and their respective apps use these kits, both these projects are irrelevant. Uh, let’s see: PDFs are an open standard, PDF is a defacto proprietary standard not an open standard. 2004-09-12 1:58 am Is that bug fixed where Windows wouldn’t boot anymore because the kernel reported the wrong details. It wasn’t a Fedora bug, but a 2.6 kernel bug. I didn’t install Core 2 because of it. ps. Actually PDFs are a proprietary open standard. Recent specs are documented and available to the public (but I think things like PDF forms aren’t available yet). 2004-09-12 2:15 am “This is getting ridiculous. I’ve just upgraded much of Fedora Core 1 with new stuff and now I’m told that I will not be getting any more updates. Again this is stupid but I suppose it’s ongoing.” Hmm. Given that why are you with Fedora? It was always going to be a very limited support lifetime distro? 2004-09-12 2:36 am How can you write off Cario/Glitz as “irrelevant” and then comment on how Avalon will increase performance in Windows? Cario/Glitz atleast has visible code avaliable. What does that make Avalon? Some sort delusional fantasy? 2004-09-12 2:39 am whoops, cario = cairo :] 2004-09-12 2:53 am well actually the quickness in the Apple PDF rendering comes from the fact that they have a display system built on PDF so there is almost no software to load up in order to render the PDF files. I am fine with that and like it a lot, but that is why it loads fast. 2004-09-12 2:56 am BTW, the PDF standard is proprietary, but only in the sense that only adobe has control over the spec. there is no royalties, anyone can implement it, and anyone can read the formating. 2004-09-12 2:58 am some obscure project called .mono uses cairo, you *might* have heard of it. reading interviews regarding x.org’s plans, i would say that cairo is important to them too. of course, i am no expert. It is plain that 3d driver are less than perfect but that is not a reason, as far as i am concerned, to knock or slander projects that want to make use of 3d. failure to create compelling reasons for better support ensures drivers remain sub-standard. projects that use 3d, encourage people to go for the best supported cards because it gives them a reason to want one. personally, i have found nvidia support decent. i have also found fedora support decent. i don’t care about having to dump fc2 at some point in the future, i have partitioned my harddisk in order to make this as painless as possible. in the worst case, i can run fc2 and fc3 side by side until i have all that i want on fc3. who wants to stick with old anyway ? holding back while bugs are nailed, i can understand, but utter rejection is silly. 2004-09-12 3:18 am Fixed. 2004-09-12 4:07 am Thank you. 2004-09-12 6:14 am Obscure sites and experimental builds do not make Cairo/Glitz availible You asked me what apps used Cairo/Glitz, and I gave them to you. You asked me where you could get a demo of the technology (actually, you insinuated that the screenshots were faked), and I gave them to you. We’re comparing Cairo and Avalon, so why are you expecting release builds? Unless, of course, Avalon is in WinXP SP2, and nobody told me… In any case, freedesktop.org and GUADEC are not obscure. Both are reliable indicators of where desktop technology on Linux is heading. Cairo/Glitz isn’t production ready, but it’s on track to becoming so, and certainly more “available” than Avalon. If the Developers/Distros aren’t promoting/using Cairo/Glitz to the masses, what is that say to the regular user(it’s vaporware). Wait, so how “available” and “relevent’ depends not on the working code that is available, but on how heavily marketed and hyped it is? I think you’ve got the definition of “vaporware” backwards! Till Cairo/Glitz is included with GDE/KDE and their respective apps use these kits, both these projects are irrelevant. Of course that’s a stupid statement. The likelyhood of Cairo/Glitz being on the desktop in 2007 are just as high as the likelyhood of Avalon being on desktops in 2007. Both are relevent to the extent that they will be the most likely future of graphics on their respective platforms. Cairo/Glitz is very relevent because it shows that Linux has a response to Avalon ready for the Longhorn release. 2004-09-12 7:17 am I hope things will be done more efficently in FC3. When looking at FC2 too many services were left on by default whihc eat up a good amount of ram (not all computers these days have 1Gig to spare). Furthermore the kernel had every thing enabled for maximum support of any hardware one could dig up, but sadly this led to a slower kernel then normal. I enjoy the slickness of Fedora/Mandrake/Suse but I would rest better at night knowing these projects would also pay specific attention to performance on low end machines. I don’t want people to tell me “Windows ran so much better then Linux on my 800Mhz with 64Megs of ram.” 2004-09-12 9:14 am Where did that FC3-T2 come from? People at osnews and slashdot should have jump out and shouting whenever a new FC is released. I never remotely heard about this release anywhere. The official site had no info about it as well. 2004-09-12 9:31 am Cairo/Glitz is very relevent because it shows that Linux has a response to Avalon ready for the Longhorn release. Cairo/Glitz can not even close to WinFx and DCE in Avalon. Looking Glass project is what really compares to Avalon(windows drawn in 3D user space via a direct GPU access using polygons). Cairo/Glitz whenever it comes out is comparable to Quartz not Avalon; ergo it is a response to Quartz that came out in 2001 not Avalon. At least Sun has put out a few videos on Looking Glass. Hell there’s quite a few on Avalon. How do you expect the general public to gauge the difference between Avalon, Looking Glass, Quartz, and Cairo/Glitz when Cairo/Glitz grossly fails in that regards. Freedesktop.org comes up woefully short on information on most projects for the end user(actually very badly). 2004-09-12 10:11 am I never remotely heard about this release anywhere. The official site had no info about it as well. — its not released yet. says so in the presentation itself. do read it before you comment 2004-09-12 11:11 am Release candidat : http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-re0908.0/ rhgb and firstboot have some showstopper bugs. 2004-09-12 11:33 am Cairo/Glitz can not even close to WinFx and DCE in Avalon. Looking Glass project is what really compares to Avalon(windows drawn in 3D user space via a direct GPU access using polygons) Actually not. Go read the official documents about Avalon on the MS site. Avalon is about creating GUIS in a declarative manner and using GPUs to render it in a high-quality resolution independent manner. The rendering part is the very same goal as Cairo (with Glitz to render it harnessing the GPUs). Any 3-d tricks can be implemented (rescaling of windows for a sort of perspective along the z axis, shadows, transparencies) in either Avalon/Cairo, but we’r still talking of a basically bidimensional environment. Oh, and with avalon we’ll probably see a better handling of advanced type-setting (as in ligatures), that are just embellishments for western fonts but I understand are quite important for arabic/indic localizations. And, btw, are yet implemented under linux (see freetype2, Pango etc.) 2004-09-12 3:39 pm well if iam running core 2, and i well update it to follow rowride (develop) for testing it on my desktop. what to use then? the new rpm, from fedora well remove apt and synaptic. but are there and one that have mp3 and ++ stuff for the develop ? in mandrake there are plf that have .rpms for the cooker! 2004-09-12 8:30 pm http://www.fedora.us/ http://rpm.livna.org/ http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/apt/mega-merge.php 2004-09-12 10:21 pm yes i know, but they dont work with fedora betas or dev. so its only for the core. but mandrakes plf have packs for cooker (devel). 2004-09-12 10:37 pm All of this looks very, very nice. I’m personally very curious if the new remote desktop system will take advantage of damage. Any takers? 2004-09-13 1:16 am Is this new? 2004-09-13 1:00 pm Opened fine here, but for anyone having problems, try opening with ggv, often works 2004-09-13 3:03 pm udev works great on fc3t2!