As others looked into the past, ExtremeTech is looking forward to 2003, asking: What’s in store for desktop operating systems? Will Linux and Mac OS X go the way of OS/2, or is Windows doomed?
As others looked into the past, ExtremeTech is looking forward to 2003, asking: What’s in store for desktop operating systems? Will Linux and Mac OS X go the way of OS/2, or is Windows doomed?
Will Linux and Mac OS X go the way of OS/2, or is Windows doomed?
Because, of course, none of them can co-exist peacefully. All three couldn’t be thriving environments on their own, huh?
If anyone really thinks Apple would port their OS to sub-standard, badly designed and disorganised hardware, they’re probably inhaling too many fumes from their overclocked AMD processors.
I agree. Ain’t gonna happen.
The big news everyone’s buzzing about: Will Apple release an x86 version of OSX, thereby igniting the Roll-Your-Own Macintosh crowd?
We all know the answer to this: NO
Still unclear, but apparently that Intel Macintosh OS is floating around!
If your definition of floating around is “installed on a single computer that’s locked in a room at Apple” then yes, this is correct.
I think the real issue surrounding OS X at the present time is will Quark finish their OS X port, thus allowing major prepress installations to move from oldworld MacOS to OS X.
In the future, there’s concern over the possible move to the GPUL.
It seems highly unlikely that Apple would ever move to x86, and they certainly aren’t going to release a version of OS X that will run on commodity x86 hardware.
Of greater interest is the review of Phoebe (RedHat 8.1) that is a link from the article.
Haven’t seen one on OSNews yet… Anyone?
The Complete Destruction of the KDE Desktop!
– Well no, not really. But I sure would like for Gnome to take over the top slot as the most widely used Linux desktop. I don’t have anything against KDE per se, I just hate it and want it to go away.
*splutter*
I’m glad he doesn’t mince words… That’s too funny!
What’s in store for news web sites? Will ExtremeTech go bankrupt, or does it just suck?
the guy that wrote the Linux section of that article (Jim Lynch) is an IDIOT.
1. Bundled VPN Connection Wizard – no comment
2. Release of GAIM for Windows – it’s already out for windows, buddy. http://gaim.sf.net – Even though its still in alpha, it’s still been released to the public. And, I still prefer AOL’s client becuase it supports many features Gaim doesn’t and probably won’t for a while/ever, such as voice chat. What’s the significance of a 1.0 release anyhow when they’ll never get
3. The Elimination of Dependency Hell – apt-get install debian now
4. Easy-to-use GUI Installer for Debian – Debian isn’t for newbies. they don’t need a gui installer
5. The Ability to Play Every Windows Game Ever Created! – unnecesarry + false windows bashing.
6. More Linux Games! – for many games, this is unprofitable.
7. Better 3D/Multimedia Support in Linux – it’s good enough in most distributions. the distributiosn that don’t have it shouldn’t, because they aren’t for idiots (like you.)
8. A FrontPage Clone for Linux – FrontPage is a crappy HTML editor. Maybe we should clone some other. Or, maybe we should abide to standards and use vim instead of using crappy HTML editors that create nonstandard and buggy HTML code that’s full of obtrusive scripts.
9. The Complete Destruction of the KDE Desktop! – How negative. Don’t you like freedom of choice? I think you belong in the MS crowd running Microsoft Windows XP.
thank you, and goodnight.
3. The Elimination of Dependency Hell – apt-get install debian now
Yup, most people’s solution to dependency hell in Linux – install Debian and use apt. Nevermind that apt is only one of two things (stability also) that Debian actually does right.
4. Easy-to-use GUI Installer for Debian – Debian isn’t for newbies. they don’t need a gui installer
So if Debian/apt is the only solution for dependency hell and Debian is not for newbies, then I guess newbies are just shit out of luck when it comes to Linux on the desktop.
I think that the Mac platform is staged for success if it only could overcome two obstacles: applications and price. We need to get Quark to port QuarkXPress to OSX natively, as well as some of the other high-end programs. Desktop publishing and graphic design has been dominated by Macs for years, but now the limited availability of these apps for OS X, the increased availability of them on Windows, and the expense of Mac is driving them away. If Apple could just have an entry-level system for $1000 (and I mean iMac, we want flat screen), rather than the $1200 for the cheapest iMac, I can assure you that more small offices and home users would start buying. And that is really what they need: home users. They are losing their grip on education and graphic design, and I think they should try to reclaim those fields, but those are not nearly as profitable and as lucrative as the home market. After all, it doesn’t matter how many they sell, because Apple is making a profit off of every Mac anyway, as opposed to the PC makers where they have to buy them in packs of 100 and sell them all, etc. Apple just sells them from their Apple-owned stores or Apple.com. They have a more direct business model, one that affords them 100% of everything that they sell.
>>So if Debian/apt is the only solution for dependency hell and Debian is not for newbies, then I guess newbies are just shit out of luck when it comes to Linux on the desktop.<<
Well If it’s just the install then the newbie can use Alt GNU/Linux. Kind of the russian version of mandrake with english support and an apt-get system(not entirely sure if it really is based on mandrake but the install looks pretty identical the last i used it).
the newbie can also use kpackage or gnome-apt as a layer over apt-get.this is true in debian, but i’m not sure about alt.
Ok, I have to say that this is pretty silly. None of these Operating Systems will be dying in 2003. Windows is the 900 lb Gorilla. It does what it wants when it wants, if it is destined to die, then it won’t be until like 2015 at the earliest, not tomorrow.
Apple has been keeping a steady flow of profit margins vs. capital loss ratio. They may be slowly losing the education market, but they aren’t dead yet. They aren’t on the slim fast weight loss plan any more than MS is, although they are only a 350 lb Gorilla. If they are going to die, it also won’t be tomorrow. Besides, there are a lot of Linux developers, as I understand it, that are using PowerBooks for OS X because they can write their code on the go and compile later, and the OS completely works with everything in the laptop.
Which brings us to Linux. No offense, but Linux is the NRA of Operating Systems. As long as I can roll my own kernal, you’ll have to pry my cold dead fingers from it. It may not be on my Dad’s computer, or your Granddad’s computer. But it is on my primary and secondary systems at work. (Most of the others are *shudders* Tru64 systems.) Linux will never die, not just because of fanatic support, but because of it’s niche. It will also, as far as I can see, never completely take over, again because of it’s niche. But that’s ok, it’s right where it needs to be.
Oh, and the rumors I’ve heard about Mac OS X on x86 hardware is that Steve Jobs is keeping *all* options open for when the Motorola contract expires. And believe you this, if Mac OS X does materialize for x86 hardware it will *NOT* be commodity hardware. It will be the same Apple hardware we have right now. All the motherboards will have an Apple specific “NewWorld” ROM with *no* BIOS. So your really cool Soyo DRAGON board won’t be able to boot it any better than my Alpha.
But that’s just my three dollars and fifty-two cents.
“We need to get Quark to port QuarkXPress to OSX natively, as well as some of the other high-end programs”…
Like what other ones that are used in graphics design, prepress and multimedia, exactly? Photoshop? Ilustrator? Macromedia Studio MX? I’ll go out on a short limb and predict that if Quark doesn’t get their act together for OS X in 2003, they’ll be falling on their own sword, because the patience of their target market is not finite and virtually every other major app has at least been Carbonized by now. Adobe will be all but handing out free copies of InDesign 2.x to Quark holdouts.
“If Apple could just have an entry level system for $1000 (we want flat screen)…”
It won’t be too difficult for them to do a $200 price drop in 2003, I imagine. But I don’t think they’re losing their grip on the graphic design market to a significant degree; I still go into companies whose marketing departments are entirely Mac-based even when the rest of the company’s all Windows-based. Prepress folks I talk to still prefer Macs, too.
If anyone really thinks Apple would port their OS to sub-standard, badly designed and disorganised hardware, they’re probably inhaling too many fumes from their overclocked AMD processors.
Heh… Substandard and badly designed he says… I guess this is why Intel has left PowerPC in the dust performance wise. Apple is hindered by its use of PowerPC processors. They are slow and overpriced. Intel has broken 3Ghz. And Apple is still hovering around 1Ghz. Why do you think they are shipping their desktop units standard with dual processors these days? It’s to make up for that embarassing speed difference. But even the dual processor mac is way slower than the high end Intel systems. And The dual processor mac costs like twice as much.
Apple will port to x86 for two reasons:
#1: It’s a gold mine. After all, it’s what made Microsoft rich. Apple should learn a lesson from Microsoft that software–not hardware–is where the money is.
#2: They get a lot of the work done for free because Darwin is community developed and has already been ported to x86. In otherwords, the core of MacOS is already ported to Intel.
Another reason Apple will port to x86: To encourage software developers to port to OS X. So far, the response to OS X has been dismal. Many companies have threatend to drop Mac support forever because they lost a ton of money on their OS X ports after very few people bought them. Microsoft, of course, is threatening to drop Office for Mac forever. Apple needs to do something to attract more developers, as well as keep the few existing ones they have left. And x86 port of OS X might just do the trick.
<cough>
Apple won’t port to x86 because it puts them squarely in Microsoft’s sights on Microsoft’s home turf. Not a good place to be. At all.
You want to help Apple? Go buy an apple
Regardless of what hardware they use, its not going to be the hardware you have now. So either buy a PPC Apple, or buy a x86 Apple when/if it ever comes. Otherwise, don’t bother saying what they “need to do.”
I can’t argue with the many reasons apple Would NOT port OSX to x86 but if they did they would be a REAL alternative to Windows on the desktop. I think when people get wind of Palladium and MS’s DRM strategy they will be very ready to move to a new Operating system. I would make the switch to Apple if I haven’t already made a significant investment in hardware but I would definitally purchase a copy of OSX for the x86. I’ll just keep my fingers crossed that a real desktop alternative to windows does come along.
Unlikely but Steve Jobs is completely unpredictable so who knows. But I think they would do it on servers first in any event.
simba, you’re wrong about developer response to OS X. Everyone’s there but Quark. JUST QUARK. Understand?
Apple did ship some x86 systems to some testers. Not much is known about what was in the box because they were welded shut except they were duel processor AMDs. The lastest version of Darwin also has AMD support.
Just some side notes:
1) AMD supports SMP, P4 doesn’t you have to use P3s.
2) AMD has always had less design flaws in their chips.
3) AMD doesn’t have much of a heat problem.
4) The P4 is designed to run software compiled for it. All old softwere is slow…
Apple conciders itself a hardware company. I don’t think they’re going to change overnight. Also, the last time I checked, Microsoft was a hardware company (they are on the motherboard standards commitee, build mice, joysticks, network routers, game systems, …)
Any x86 system from Apple will be PC2001 compliant with no legecy support (ie: keyboard, mouse, serial, printer port, or floppy drive). Intel currently doesn’t build a chipset for the P4 that supports this model (the entire 8xx family has legecy support). Expect them to use dual processors also; two 1GHz processors are more responsive then a 2GHz process plus the price is about the same.
Microsoft has already stated that the next major release of Windows might not run on current hardware. They are going to require the PCI Express (PC2001 + Security Chips); they don’t like people using their software with out them knowing about it…
— “3. The Elimination of Dependency Hell – apt-get install debian now
Yup, most people’s solution to dependency hell in Linux – install Debian and use apt. Nevermind that apt is only one of two things (stability also) that Debian actually does right.
4. Easy-to-use GUI Installer for Debian – Debian isn’t for newbies. they don’t need a gui installer
So if Debian/apt is the only solution for dependency hell and Debian is not for newbies, then I guess newbies are just shit out of luck when it comes to Linux on the desktop.” —
You know, I currentle and happliy use apt-get and Synaptic on RedHat 8.0. Why would anyone install Debian just for apt-get?
You know I really like linux. But I have come up with a wonderfully fun game for articles like these that say linux is ready and could go “primetime.” Everytime they say linux, insert HURD in its place. (Yes you can do this, after linux is only a kernel too ..)
You want to help Apple? Go buy an apple
Regardless of what hardware they use, its not going to be the hardware you
have now.
If Apple wants my help, those are the things they are going to have to do. Otherwise I won’t buy one. I won’t pay those kind of prices for a system that performs on the level of what Intel was doing 3 years ago.
First, there is LinuxSTEP http://www.linuxstep.org.
and there is my project, Prometheus (formally SimplyGNUstep).
http://www.sf.net/projects/simplygnustep
Both are developed actively but neither has a good user-friencdly install disc to give to the masses (yet). If done corectly, these projects will be simply awesome.
1) AMD supports SMP, P4 doesn’t you have to use P3s.
That statement is incorrect. I have a dual P4 (Xeon) box at work. It’s built on a SuperMicro motherboard that holds two P4 chips. You couldn’t put P3 chips in it if you wanted to, as the socket layouts are different between the two processors. If P4s can’t do SMP, like you claim, then why is SuperMicro selling an SMP P4 motherboard? If your statement was true, then all of the recent news about Intel’s hyperthreading technology would be falacious. Since I’m using hyperthreading I know the news can’t be false. SMP works just fine on P4 class chips.
2) AMD has always had less design flaws in their chips.
Could you quantify and/or qualify this statement, please? What are you talking about and what are your sources for such information?
3) AMD doesn’t have much of a heat problem.
Right, and that documented (with video, no less) issue of, “If your fan falls off your AMD chip will literally burn up in a matter of seconds” was just fictitious. I have an AMD 1.33GHz as my home machine. I know it needs a big heat/sink fan combination to stay cool.
4) The P4 is designed to run software compiled for it. All old softwere is slow…
What are you talking about? Slow compared to what, exactly? Granted, the new 64bit Intel chips have speed issues with 32 bit software, unlike the AMD 64 bit chip which seems to fall back to 32bit execution more seamlessly. P4s run all 32bit and 16bit code without problems.
If you’re going to be an AMD fanboy, at least try to work a little at making your claims defensible.
“Of greater interest is the review of Phoebe (RedHat 8.1) that is a link from the article.
Haven’t seen one on OSNews yet… Anyone?
”
I submitted one, but I guess it sucked because it was never posted.
So many people say that this will never happen, but I wouldn’t be so sure. It is well known that Apple has internal versions of OSX for x86 floating around in the company. It is done both as an experiment and because portable code is well written code. However, they don’t want to cut into hardware sales by allowing Mac lovers to use cheaper x86 hardware.
BUT… Palladium is scary. It is scary to me, and it is even more scary to those x86 users who don’t use linux or an alternative OS. If there is a big enough backlash against Palladium, Apple could tear the OS industry open at the seams. x86 Macintosh could potential knock MS on its ass if enough people refuse to put up with this heavy DRM. Therein lies Apple’s secret weapon.
Im not sure where, but I had read that amd chips had less design flaws aswell a long time ago, but it may not be correct now.
And the p4 thing is about optimizing code for the way the p4 works, programs not designed to run specifically on p4s will ususally run faster on athlons.
I agree with everyone who pointed out that basically the OS world is not winner take all…there will be winners to one degree or another in various niches and that the MS power of the 1990s won’t be at the same level in the 2000s. However, no one should die unless something pretty darn cool comes along (like Zeta64).
Anyway, people often mention that DRM and all that goes along with that will hurt Microsoft because no one wants a spy for a computer!
This may be true (in the short term) but I wonder what those who publish software prefer. If DRM (Digital Rights Management) provides a way for media companies and software publishing houses to become more profitable (through less piracy) perhaps they will be more likely to target DRM-capable systems. Thus more software for DRM-capable computers — which may keep the users from migrating to other systems.
The publishing houses have long said piracy hurts profits; others say piracy helps build brand recognition and thus eventual acceptance and usage and profits. Maybe with DRM in place we will be closer to knowing the answer and that answer may have an impact on which direction software companies prefer to go.
Linux may have to accept DRM to get non-open source applications if DRM indeed helps profits. I have a hard time imagining companies not wanting some form of rights management to help protect against piracy…but we will see.
DRM is an AMERICAN law, and in case you haven’t noticed Linux is developed and used in many countries throughout the world, and microsoft sell’s windows all over the world also.
Iggy Drougge: If anyone really thinks Apple would port their OS to sub-standard, badly designed and disorganised hardware, they’re probably inhaling too many fumes from their overclocked AMD processors.
That sub-standard hardware that is also badly-designed and disorganised happen to be many many times faster than the fastest PPC workstation. I’m saying that a x86 Mac is extremely probable, and I’m not suffering from fumes from my overclocked AMD.
Chris: I agree. Ain’t gonna happen.
It is funny, a lot of people like you say it is not going to happen, but never provide any reasons.
Bascule: In the future, there’s concern over the possible move to the GPUL.
Well, IIRC, it would be in mass-production by end of this year. But whether Apple is going to use it remains to be seen. Besides, GPUL would probably suffer the same fate as G3 and G4. If it manage to beat x86 in the speed race in its early days, later on, like it or not, x86 is bound to catch up.
and they certainly aren’t going to release a version of OS X that will run on commodity x86 hardware.
I agree, they have invested a little too much money into their hardware to throw it all away. But maybe this can happen, but before such a thing happens, Apple would have to take steps like allowing a limited amount of PPC clones..
—
Besides guys, on the ET article, I always thought Phoenix was developed on Windows? Why is there a connection with Linux merely because it has a Linux version?
The publishing houses have long said piracy hurts profits; others say piracy helps build brand recognition and thus eventual acceptance and usage and profits. Maybe with DRM in place we will be closer to knowing the answer and that answer may have an impact on which direction software companies prefer to go.
You have an interesting point-of-view when it comes to piracy and I too would like to know the answer. I’ve often wondered how intelligent it is to stop some 15yo kid from pirating a particular app, who may one day end up in a position in a company’s IT department where he makes the software purchasing decisions.
As for DRM, I don’t fundamentally have a problem with it and don’t see it as a bad thing, except when a DRM solution prevents me from using a particular product or service that I bought and paid for in any way I wish, so long as I am not doing anything illegal with it. For example, if I download a song off the Internet, I have no problem if it contains DRM that prevents anyone from me playing it. However, I do have a problem when they try to limit the devices/computers I can play it on. Perhaps the balance between protecting a company’s IP and consumer freedom has not been found yet, but I hope it someday will.
Release of GAIM for Windows – GAIM is my favorite IM program in Linux but most Windows users have still never heard of it.
Tell me one reason why Windows users would use GAIM over AOL’s AIM? AIM has more features, looks nicer, etc.
Time to free those stuck using AOL’s client from their bondage and bring them into the freedom of open source IM.
Right……. there are in hhuuuuuuggggggeeeeeeeee bondage. I hope you would never get a job as a marketer, because you don’t know the market at all.
But RPM based distros like Suse, Red Hat and others need to obliterate dependency hell.
I’m not all that sure about SuSE, but Red Hat fixes this problem with a Red Hat Network subscription…
I know this is in the works but I want to see it this year, completely finished and ready to go.
All my problems with Debian is after installation. I much rather have debian change deselect then change the whole entire installation. If I wanted a easy install, I would get something Debian-based like Xandros or (god-forbid) Lindows.com.
Must every distro be available to newbies? Sheesh.
Next what? Proper package management for Slackware?
The Ability to Play Every Windows Game Ever Created! – Well this will never happen.
Are you a bad writer or what? Make a prediction, and within 2 spaces and a dash, say it would never happen.
But wouldn’t it be great to just stick a Windows game CD in and have it work in Linux?
No. It is as fun playing a Nintendo game on a PS/2. I much prefer native games. They are far more faster and actually takes advantage of Linux’s features like networking (multi-player network games).
Since I can’t have that wish, I’d like to see the gaming companies include a native Linux version in every box. No more releasing the Windows version first and then – maybe – releasing a Linux version 6 months or a year later.
Why should they? The cost of porting is very high, and the returns are rather low (compared to the Windows version). I’m sure they won’t mind a Linux company (like Loki, only with better management) porting it for them, but in the near future, I won’t see versions for Windows and Linux released at the same time.
Pack it all in and make it easy for users to watch streaming video, play games and listen to audio on EVERY Linux distribution.
Even distributions that are made for servers? Face it, distributions that target users that want to watch streaming video, play games and listen to audio somehow already have it fixed or is fixing it.
A FrontPage Clone for Linux – Linux is in dire need of a good WYSIWYG program like FrontPage.
I agree, I have been using FrontPage a lot in the past few months. But I much prefer DreamWeaver – just a little more flexible than FrontPage IMHO.
So where is the open source alternative?
Mozilla Composer? 🙂
But I sure would like for Gnome to take over the top slot as the most widely used Linux desktop.
Doubt it would ever happen.
KDE is used by a lot more distributions as its main and default and many times only desktop, and I can only think of one major distribution that does the same with GNOME.
I don’t have anything against KDE per se, I just hate it and want it to go away.
Talk about contradicting your own self. I’m now using GNOME 2.0 more often than a stable release of KDE (3.1 not included :-), I don’t see anything wrong with 2.0, but I certainly don’t see anything wrong with KDE that a death is completely nessecary.
IMHO, KDE is far ahead of GNOME. Just hope in the new future they would have a UI cleanup.
When consumers get the wind of DRM and Palladium, it would be in the form of advertisements from Microsoft. And trust me, it means it would have anything negative in it.
boyo: Apple won’t port to x86 because it puts them squarely in Microsoft’s sights on Microsoft’s home turf. Not a good place to be. At all.
I don’t see why Microsoft would hit out against Apple if they change the G4 for a P4. I doubt they would sell OS X for commodity PC hardware, so in other words, while Macs are faster, it wouldn’t be cheaper. And wouldn’t be all much of a threat to Microsoft.
Vince: You want to help Apple? Go buy an apple
I buy a lot of apples. In Malaysia, they have pasar malam or night markets, and apples go cheap there. But sometimes I much prefer buying pears and/or oranges..
It’s a joke 🙂 Laugh.
Joe Powers: or buy a x86 Apple when/if it ever comes.
I won’t see myself buying a Mac even if it is x86. I don’t need one, and most probably it would be more expensive than a normal Wintel PC.
Joe Powers: Not much is known about what was in the box because they were welded shut except they were duel processor AMDs.
I really need proof. Not one Mac news site (read: non-rumour site) that carried this news.
Joe Powers: 1) AMD supports SMP, P4 doesn’t you have to use P3s.
Three words: Pentium 4 Xeon.
Joe Powers: 2) AMD has always had less design flaws in their chips.
Actually, they have more design flaws in their current chips than P4s. For example, they have less stability in higher heat, compared with P4s.
Joe Powers: 3) AMD doesn’t have much of a heat problem.
LOL. Actually, Athlon XP fixed some of the heating problem, but there is a heating problem there. Besides, if you buy a rather expensive heatsink and fan, you won’t have any problems, but everything K7 have heating problems.
Joe Powers: 4) The P4 is designed to run software compiled for it. All old softwere is slow…
Au contraire. While P4 is rather slow compared to the Athlon XP in running Pentium III-optimized applications, it runs non-optimized apps rather well. Remember, all the P4 vs. Athlon XP benchmarks mostly uses non-platform optimized apps.
besides, if Apple did have a Mac using x86, wouldn’t they be optimizing it for the processor? So the difference between a AMD processor and a Intel processor is slim. Very slim.
Joe Powers: Microsoft was a hardware company (they are on the motherboard standards commitee, build mice, joysticks, network routers, game systems, …)
They are on the commitee because they make the most used OS, and they need to have a say on what standards a motherboard should have. As for the rest of their hardware, they are accessories. So I wouldn’t call them a hardware company ala Apple.
Joe Powers: Any x86 system from Apple will be PC2001 compliant with no legecy support (ie: keyboard, mouse, serial, printer port, or floppy drive).
WHAT?!?! Macs don’t use keyboards or mouses?!?!
Joe Powers: Microsoft has already stated that the next major release of Windows might not run on current hardware.
They never state such a thing for Longhorn, although on MS rumours sites they say it. Heck, Microsoft mention little about Longhorn.
Besides, I doubt they would do that. A large number of XP users are upgrade users, and Microsoft makes a larger profit margin from them.
Tell me one reason why Windows users would use GAIM over AOL’s AIM? AIM has more features, looks nicer, etc.
I have never used Gaim personally and can’t comment on it, but I do use Trillian Pro on Win32 because it allows me to access all the major IM networks (Yahoo, MSN, ICQ, AIM, etc) from one program instead of running 4-5 different ones.
Of course, it does not have every bell and whistle of the full-blown IM clients, but it does have all the features I want and none of the ones I don’t. However, people who use such features as the ‘IMviroments’ won’t find much satisfaction in the ‘alternatives’ and are probably better off with the native apps.
Until apple is able to get a lot of big name games onto their system, it is not going to take over the general market.
It rules for multimedia stuff like audio and gfx, and their user base proves that, but the only way for a system like this to be successful is to have games.
–
DRM is not an American law. DRM stands for Digital Rights Managment. Which is a set of technologies used to protect Intellectual property when it is distributed.
It is meant to be used like the following example.
A person downloads a audio file for personal use. The file can only be played in a special DRM player. The DRM software allows the file to be copied once and only once for a personal backup. After a month the DRM software deletes the file because the person no longer has the rights to it. That is digital rights managment, the managment of who and what has the right to alter, copy etc a piece of digital property.
DCMA is an American law. Put simply it makes it illegal to circumvent (stop or find a way around) a copyright protection mechanism such as a DRM encyrption Algorithm or the one in a DVD player.
Other countries have laws like the DCMA, for instance Austalia and the EU (I think). Australias law was recently tried in court and failed because the complainant Sony failed to prove that the device that was circumvented was used for copy protection.
I think if you look at the developer tools for MAcOS X you may be able to compile the programs to run under windows, although i’m only guessing. Bring back the yellow box for windows.
Thank god for http://www.yellowtab.com
No foolish, nerd OS linux. No expensive hardware supported MacOS and no XP (Oh yeah, only for FS 2002) on the desktop but Zeta. Zeta can finaly show what BeOS couldn’t to the big public due to management failure and lack of commercial view. For only $39 you have it all. The only question is when can we order on their website???
The lastest version of Darwin also has AMD support.
That AMD is the Auto-Mount Daemon. It is what mounts CD’s, floppies and such in the operating system. NOT the processor.
I think if you look at the developer tools for MAcOS X you may be able to compile the programs to run under windows, although i’m only guessing. Bring back the yellow box for windows.
Nope. The current Dev Tools do not compile for Windows.
“DRM is an AMERICAN law”??
DRM stands for Digital Rights Managment, as far as i know at lest. Maybe you’re thinking about the DMCA, and that is a American “act”, but it is not a stricktally American idea. For example the BSA (Business Software Alliance) led a push for a European Digital Copyright Law, but the deadline was passed. anyway.
OS X on x86 powered hardware??? Who knows it might happen, but they could as easily go with the new IBM Power4 chip.
OS X on cheap Windows machines, no way!!!! Apple makes lots of money from their hardware sales. If it would be possible to get a version for your cheap x86 (perhaps requiring certain graphics card, audio etc.), how many would stay the lovely looking Macs??
Will they keep their existing percentage in the school system in the US? Will they keep their grab on the graphics/design industry? I don’t think so; these customers would gladly buy cheap x86 hardware for their business.
In order to still make money by selling the “Windows copies”, Apple would have to become a software company. In my book, Apple is not a software company. They make some nice iApps, they have done a great job with their OS, and their Final Cut program is properly as good as the reviews mention. But they are not a software company like MS, with a lot of products. They iApps are not as good (function wise) as most shareware/freeware for Windows.
No doubt that a lot a people would go for the Windows version making a big market, but if Apple tries their luck in this field they will not survive.
Apple makes a good combination of hardware and OS (some people like it, some don’t), and Apple will stay this way for a long time.
Simba:
> Apple is hindered by its use of PowerPC processors. They are slow and overpriced.
The real PowerPC problem is called Motorola. They are so happy selling embedded PowerPC that they’re REALLY not interested if G4’s will be surpassed in performance by even VIA chips in 2003
If I were Jobs, I’d change to IBM Semiconductors ASAP. Apple is a hardware company, selling slow hardware because of a vendor’s inability is a real hurt.
appleforever:
> simba, you’re wrong about developer response to OS X.
> Everyone’s there but Quark. JUST QUARK.
What looks enough for Apple to still allow OS 9 booting?
Quark is big, XPress is big, but Quark and schools still maintaining alive OS 9? Not enough. There’s more.
nxtw:
> 3. The Elimination of Dependency Hell – apt-get install debian now
If you want to fossilize yourself and stay on stable, I agree wholeheartly with you. If you want to install something extra like Ximian GNOME, or even upgrade to testing (not talking about unstable), I disagree.
The real problem for Debian is that there’s no central coordination, the maintainers do what they want to do and don’t mind if it breaks the system. There is why a stable Debian release takes SO MUCH to appear. There is the point why people are switching from Debian to Gentoo. If you go testing or unstable, you’ll see this.
dwilson:
> BUT… Palladium is scary. It is scary to me, and it is even more scary to those x86 users who don’t use linux or an alternative OS. If there is a big enough backlash against Palladium, Apple could tear the OS industry open at the seams. x86 Macintosh could potential knock MS on its ass if enough people refuse to put up with this heavy DRM. Therein lies Apple’s secret weapon.
The question is now: will Jobs’ friends in the media industry let Apple ship a TCPA-free OS for x86? It’s anyone’s guess now
Erm, your question was : why would anyone install debian, just for apt-get ?
You silly red-hat user.
That is the problem these days with the linux distro :
people who use the kiddie-distro’s like Red Hat & Mandrake & SUSE think they are really cool GNU/Linux experts because they can install it from that neat printed cd-booting fully graphical install WinXP-lookalike commercial distro b*llsh*t. ALl of the three distros mentioned above do NOT qualify as a Good Thing ™. They are just dumb companies who want to take linux, and turn it into a Windows lookalike… ’nuff said.
http://www.debian.org/
Erm you say a Debian stable release takes so damn long to come out, but in the mean while GENTOO 1.4 has been talked about almost being released, back since SEPTEMBER, and it still hasn’t arrived! I can do a debian FTP-install in 15min, while a Gentoo install from stage-1 takes you… well meaby a few days if your box isn’t equipped with a dual XEON and 2GB of ram. Ok ok you CAN do a stage-3 install, but that would just be crazy because the main reason that you would use Gentoo is for the compiling-optimizations… -EOF-
>You silly red-hat user.
> That is the problem these days with the linux distro :
> people who use the kiddie-distro’s like Red Hat & Mandrake & SUSE >think they are really cool GNU/Linux experts because they can install it >from that neat printed cd-booting fully graphical install WinXP-lookalike >commercial distro b*llsh*t. ALl of the three distros mentioned above do >NOT qualify as a Good Thing ™. They are just dumb companies who >want to take linux, and turn it into a Windows lookalike… ’nuff said.
Actually, the problem with Linux “these days” is people like you. Debian guys in particular seem to have a stick up there butt about things that don’t require you to read an O’Reily book 20 times to understand. I learned JUST as much with Debian as I did with Red Hat/SuSE/Mandrake, and that’s not saying much. When I finally switched to Gentoo, I realised that Linux could be simple and advanced all at the same time…hrmm, imagine that…oh wait you can’t you are too blinded by ingnorence.
RTFM?
No, GAFL: Get A Fscking Life
r00t, there are seperate stage3 install isos for most processor types, you just download the one optimised for your system.
Anyway, optimising is nice, but it’s not really what gentoo is about. Freedom from dependency problems, easy software installation, automatic configuration, and easy upgrading of packages is more important to me.
Don’t bother waiting for 1.4 either, just install and emerge -u world.
>You silly red-hat user.
> That is the problem these days with the linux distro :
> people who use the kiddie-distro’s like Red Hat & Mandrake & SUSE >think they are really cool
I use RedHat, and I KNOW I am cooler than you. 😛 I used Gentoo 1.4 RC1, and well it was decent but I spent more time compiling than using, how dumb is that? LOL
I stand behind my statement. Go to the Intel web site. Xeon is a P3 chip designed for SMP. The P3 & P4 don’t support SMP. Intel doesn’t make a chip based on the P4 that supports SMP.
P3 supports 2-way SMP.
P3 Xeon supports 8-way SMP.
P4 supports SMP, but it is disabled.
P4 Xeon supports 8-way and greater SMP.
what is your operating system of choice?
erm, dork, erm, get out of the basement, erm, don’t fear that large burning globe in the sky, erm, get a life.
Lack of drivers
Lack of applications
Lack of users
Lack of funding
Lack of actual development for 2 years
Why should I invest time and money on a dead, beaten , sodomized and rotting horse some people keep prodding with a stick?
Why don’t you propose to me I should run windows 98 today? Wait, I actually have better hard- and software support on Windows. Never mind.
OpenBeOS has a small chance of getting anywhere and having a future. Zeta is a joke. A pretty lame one at that.
It’s the section of the Linux community, the one that r00t seems to be stuck in, that confuses me…
I’m pretty sure they can do just about anything they want to in Linux with their eyes shut… But it’s also people like them that drive potential Linux users away.
So what do you guys really want? To kick Linux newbies away from Linux?
Everyone was a newbie to something once… You’re just not helping.
Maybe it’s just the fact that you guys want to keep Linux as the little cult it currently is, instead of a mainstream desktop OS.
….its community.
A newbie can go to a msnews.microsoft.com newsgroup about windows, post a question and get 4 or 5 serious and useful responses.
A newbie goes to a linux forum, newsgroup or site and gets abuse, told to read the manual or given a command line string which probably does fix their problem, but is so ridiculous that that newbie doesn’t *learn* anything from it.
I hope 2003 brings out a change in the linux ‘anti-n00b’ community and all those experienced with the os hang up their ‘M$’ bashing boots and put their knowledge to good use by aiding the increasing user base withe helpful assistance and patience.
But oh, no, wait….we can’t have new users coming to linux who don’t know bash from grub now can we…..because then that OS sat on your pc that you try and impress your friends with wouldn’t be so unique now would it…..
Happy new year to all the non anti-M$ and anti-linux readers
I disagree!
Zeta is a super enhanced BeOS that never did finished by Be, Inc. This is the real BeOS R6.
> Lack of drivers
Maybe later. I don’t saw any release yet.
> Lack of applications
Uuuhm… No. See bebits.com
> Lack of users
No yet. Wait for your release
> Lack of funding
While they not selling your product, still not have funding.
> Lack of actual development for 2 years
Behhh! Wrong! Zeta Codebase is that BeOS also as Dano, that were developed until August, 16-2001 by Be, Inc and until now is in development by YellowTab! Eat your words when talk of BeOS!
> Why should I invest time and money on a dead, beaten , sodomized and rotting horse some people keep prodding with a stick?
hahahahahaha! You have used BeOS sometime? No? hahaha! Yes? Then why you are asking? hahahahahah!
> Why don’t you propose to me I should run windows 98 today? Wait, I actually have better hard- and software support on Windows. Never mind.
Windows 98 is one of the four OSs that I have in my machine.
I use it still, and when BeOSR5 were released, Windows 98 was is compared like as an “slow beast”.
> OpenBeOS has a small chance of getting anywhere and having a future. Zeta is a joke. A pretty lame one at that.
No again. OpenBeOS have a great and glorious future. Zeta have present and stability to beat Windows and Linux.
Now, You are also invited to know BlueEyedOS, that beat any offense counter my beloved BeOS.
Michael VinÃcius de Oliveira
BlueEyedOS Webmaster
> Erm you say a Debian stable release takes so damn long to
> come out, but in the mean while GENTOO 1.4 has been talked
> about almost being released, back since SEPTEMBER, and it
> still hasn’t arrived!
Running Gentoo version 1.x (where x is irrelevant) means you have the latest software installed no matter what. I’ll address the only (and I mean only) difference that the .x gives you below…
> I can do a debian FTP-install in 15min, while a Gentoo
> install from stage-1 takes you… well meaby a few days if
> your box isn’t equipped with a dual XEON and 2GB of ram.
Please, I don’t know why people complain about this so much. First off, an install doesn’t take that long on Gentoo. Granted, if you do Stage1 install, it will take you 10 hours to install. So the first half hour is you actually typing, and then the next 9.5 hours is the computer compiling. You can sleep during that time if you’d like. Also, I would like to note that unlike other operating systems, you only install Gentoo once, and it updates itself. Using Mandrake/RH usually means formatting and reinstalling for each major update…that’s ridiculous if you actually use your computer for work.
Afterwards, if you are compiling an update in the background, it doesn’t affect your computer’s usability…I can still use mozilla while updating mozilla, I can still use KDE while updating KDE…its similar to running Seti@home or Folding@home in the background.
My primary machine is a 1 GHz P3 Laptop with 256MB RAM, and that is where I am getting my numbers from. Mine is a bit slower due to slower harddrive speed. Naturally, if you don’t have broadband, then you are a crackhead if you want to use Gentoo and your telephone ever. Xeon’s and 2GB RAM is ridiculous.
> Ok ok you CAN do a stage-3 install, but that would just be
> crazy because the main reason that you would use Gentoo is
> for the compiling-optimizations… -EOF-
Ok, can you honestly tell me that you notice OpenOffice checking your spelling 0-10% faster than with your “unoptimized” installation? Or why do you think that doing a Stage3 install followed by “emerge -e –deep world” means you have an unoptimized machine (actually the machine would be quite useable during the recompilation)?
As well, the only difference between Gentoo 1.2 and 1.4 is the use of gcc 2.95.3 or gcc 3.2.x. Sure, its nice to say you have bleeding edge everything, but there are a few things that don’t compile correctly yet and gcc is still being worked on (e.g. P4 optimizations that don’t segfault programs, etc). What does Gentoo 1.4 give you that Gentoo 1.2 doesn’t have?
Sorry for the long post
simba, you’re wrong about developer response to OS X.
Everyone’s there but Quark. JUST QUARK.
I’m not wrong about developer response. Sure a lot of companies have ported to OS X, but then they have launched complaints about how they lost a ton of money on it and threatened to drop Apple support because of it. Adobe ported PhotoShop to OS X and reported dismal sails of the OS X port. Microsoft ported to OS X and then complained that so far, the OS X port of Office has sold so few copies that they haven’t even been able to recover the cost of doing the port.
That’s why developers are threatening to drop support. Because their OS X ports have been doing so poorly. A lot of it has to do with the fact that institutions just aren’t upgrading to OS X. For example, here at the University, there are tons of Macintosh computer labs. But none of them are running OS X. Even the new G4s they just ordered only boot into OS 9. Apple simply hasn’t convinced the Universities, and such to make the switch. And that is hurting application vendors because large purchases of licenses by institutions are where most of their sales come from. (institutions refering to universities and large corporations.)
Thanks for the comments!
My OS of choice : Debian GNU/Linux or Gentoo or FreeBSD for a desktop environment (or if I gotta choose an MS product : Windows 2000). For server-based boxen I would choose OpenBSD or one of the corporate UNICES (HP-UX, Tru64, AIX, Solaris).
I’ve got two x86 boxen here, one runs Debian GNU/Linux, the other runs FreeBSD, I’ve got two Sun boxen upstairs, a SparcStation1 that’s running NetBSD, and a SparcStation5 running Solaris 9 (12/02).
And don’t get me started on books little David, I’ve got O’Reilly’s Perl Cookbook lying under my pillow and Bob Toxen’s Linux Security book in my hand.
More of the same.
Do not see any big moves coming in the middle of this recession let alone any huge innovations around the corner.
MS — They will ship a new OS with some of the features mentioned in the past but without some others. They will continue to tick off customers with licensing schemes and DRM but most everyone will stick with it by default. They will improve and corporate america will follow but slowly.
Apple — Expect some general improvements for Mac OS X including things that increase the general speed and overall feel. However, do not expect any revolutionary innovations from this corner either at the very least until they get OSX where they want it. I predict they will pick a consumer electronic device with a computer hook like digital cameras or something and make a slick, cool looking version with lots of neato features and the IT press will go nuts. In short they will try hard to make up for software innovation with another IPad style move.
I use Linux so here it comes:
Linux — Gnome and KDE will improve the overall user experience. However, KDE will keep the lead because the project is older and the maintainers have not fumbled the ball as of yet in any serious way.
The kernel will improve and the pre-emptive patch and other things better suited to scalability will help out. The HTREE patch for ext3 will be nice for large file systems. We will see how much of it really improves the speed and feel of the OS to the end-user utilizing their system as a desktop.
XFree86 will come out with a couple of extensions to implement things other windowing systems have had for years and linux fans will go nuts for it. Cruft will still be there and it will be unfairly blamed for all of the gui speed/usability issues in linux when their part is actually not as large as people think. (ie the widget class, windowmanager, desktop and application developers have a lot to do with it too.)
App development will continue and OpenOffice will still be slow to start and the developers will continue to ignore this. There will be no visio substitute until Ximian, IBM, Redhat or some other company take something like Dia, kivio (I know the Kompany’s product) or some other tool and really works it hard and it has Visio imports. Mozilla will still be huge and slow and people will flock even harder to Phoenix while other people keep making excuses for the mother project.
Linux will progress and there will be some cool things for people who are already linux fans. However, despite the press, there will be no huge conversion till MS ticks off the OEM market so badly big companies start shipping low cost computers with linux by default. That will not happen unless someone gives Ballmer the lobotomy with Steve Case ordered for him for Christmas.
Those are my predictions.
MS fans and Apple fans would of course have better input on what they see coming in their favorite OSes but I thought it would be cool to get back on topic for just a second.
Looking forward to reiser4
Zeta is a super enhanced BeOS that never did finished by Be, Inc. This is the real BeOS R6.
Bullshit someone else. It’s a slightly enhanced version of R5 PE.
> Lack of applications
Uuuhm… No. See bebits.com
wow, you mean I missed GIMP/Photoshop/Office being uploaded there? I’m amazed.
> Lack of users
No yet. Wait for your release
yeah, as if people are going to use an OS which was abandoned by their creators 2 years ago. dream on.
> Lack of funding
While they not selling your product, still not have funding.
is it just me or did that sentence make no sense?
> Lack of actual development for 2 years
Behhh! Wrong! Zeta Codebase is that BeOS also as Dano, that were developed until August, 16-2001 by Be, Inc and until now is in development by YellowTab! Eat your words when talk of BeOS!
<blockquote>Before Be, Inc. sold its assets to Palm, Inc., we managed to close a deal allowing us to distribute the PE version and had started negotiations over the future of the Pro version. Koch Media was ready to reissue the copies of the Pro Version that they hadn’t managed to resell, to make it a part of a new distribution first called BeOS NG (New Generation), and now renamed to “Zeta”.</blockquote>
Read it. straight from yellowtab.com. No mention at all of Dano. Only PE. Don’t talk about things you have obviously no clue about. If you’d atleast have seen Dano you’d know that what Yellowtab has is lightyears away from what Be had running behind closed doors. Effectively, you are just talking utter bullshit dude.
> Why should I invest time and money on a dead, beaten , sodomized and rotting horse some people keep prodding with a stick?
hahahahahaha! You have used BeOS sometime? No? hahaha! Yes? Then why you are asking? hahahahahah!
Yes. from R3 on until last year. I have been writing for begroovy.com. did some coverage from the CeBit 2000 regarding BeOS, helped out on BeForever.com and was running the now defunct iBug.org which was owned by Deej who has been working for Qubit and is/was running Benuited.org.
And what is your background as far as BeOS goes if I may ask?
> Why don’t you propose to me I should run windows 98 today? Wait, I actually have better hard- and software support on Windows. Never mind.
Windows 98 is one of the four OSs that I have in my machine.
I use it still, and when BeOSR5 were released, Windows 98 was is compared like as an “slow beast”.
> OpenBeOS has a small chance of getting anywhere and having a future. Zeta is a joke. A pretty lame one at that.
No again. OpenBeOS have a great and glorious future. Zeta have present and stability to beat Windows and Linux.
Now, You are also invited to know BlueEyedOS, that beat any offense counter my beloved BeOS.
Michael VinÃcius de Oliveira
BlueEyedOS Webmaster
I’ve never heard of the site. That’s a pretty impressive list that woman put together though – sounds like she has internal MS connections AND has an independent streak.
> Why don’t you propose to me I should run windows 98 today? Wait, I actually have better hard- and software support on Windows. Never mind.
Windows 98 is one of the four OSs that I have in my machine.
I use it still, and when BeOSR5 were released, Windows 98 was is compared like as an “slow beast”.
yes, thankfully as far aas windows goes times have moved on and it is fast and featureful nowadays. Nothing which could be said about Zeta.
> OpenBeOS has a small chance of getting anywhere and having a future. Zeta is a joke. A pretty lame one at that.
No again. OpenBeOS have a great and glorious future. Zeta have present and stability to beat Windows and Linux.
right. the fairytale of windows BSODing all the time? 98 did that. I have a box at work running W2K which didn’t crash on me in 2 years. now repeat after me “Zeta is BeOS PE with clunky stuff bolted to various parts of it, nothing actually new” got it? fine.
Now, You are also invited to know BlueEyedOS, that beat any offense counter my beloved BeOS.
Ah, yes. the one based on Linux, right? Now how is that to be better than Linux if it effectively IS linux? ridiculous.
And in another part of the world:
Amiga, Hyperion and Eyetech get their thumbs out of their respective orifices and release AmigaOS 4.
Meanwhile, MorphOS gobbles up their remaining market share.
it’s nice to know that if i’m gonna be insulted for running a kiddie distro…it’s by a bonafide geek 😉
i see that you are running freebsd as well…which makes me feel better (i like freebsd…it’s so well organized and structured)
i’ll take a look at debian…sigh.
that way i can say i run debian, freebsd…and under my breath.. *redhat* 😉
peace out
Thanks 🙂
Good luck with debian!
If you like the structure of FreeBSD, you’re bound to like Debian also 🙂
Peace brotha
This horse has been dead for awhile, but let’s kick it some more.
There is little money for Apple in OSX for Intel.
Repeat after me “Microsoft is an Applications Company, not an Operating Systems Company”.
Windows gives MS a platform to develop and market their applications. The OS changes to meet the applications and the applications change to meet the OS. There is a long running tenet that “There’s no money in tools, only in applications”. Applications always sell computers, not the other way around.
Porting OS X to Intel does not open the door to more applications for OS X. The difficulty of writing an app for OS X PPC or OS X Intel is essentially identical.
If the applications are compelling enough, the users will purchase the hardware for the application. If users find iTunes or iPhoto compelling, then that may tilt them far enough to purchase the Mac.
Apple is buying media application software companies precisely for this reason, in hopes of providing best in class software that will compel users to purchase their hardware.
Users of digital music and digital cameras find the combination of the hardware/software/services that Apple provides to be pretty compelling, and that’s what Apple is trying to do. They’re not selling boot loaders, shells, virtual memory, or anything like that. They’re selling a high quality digital experience through its integrated applications and hardware.
The dark side is that many folks do not really need to purchase any more software for their new Mac out of the box, which makes it a frustrating experience for Mac developers.
So, no, Apple will not any time soon convert their hardware, IMHO. The money and time are better spent on applications.
The odds of Adobe pulling apple support anytime soon are zero to none. By the way, the new versions they make of Photoshop, etc. support both OS 9 and OS X, so people either wanted the new version of the Adobe product or not. How many upgrades Adobe was able to sell has nothing to do with OS X takeup, except that more people might have upgraded to get an OS X capable version. By the way, Thinksecret.com is reporting that the next versions of the Adobe apps out in 2003 will be OS X only.
As for MS, it has never released any figures on how much it cost to port Office to OS X. Without such info, we don’t really know whether they covered the cost. In any event, the cost has already been incurred and I’m sure the modest costs of keeping the thing working with Apple’s various system updates are far less than revenues from Office sales. The biggest hindrance of Office sales is the price, not OS X takeup. That is obvious.
What MS does with Mac Office likely will have a lot more to do with its overall objectives with windows (i.e., maintaining the monopoly or replacing it with a .net one), than MacBU profit/loss type considerations.
Mac haters can just begin to get used to the fact that “poor OS X” support is on the verge of being total history. You’ll have to find something else to make FUD about.
Education is simply going to be a slow loser for Apple over time. Yes, it will keep a larger share than in the broader market. But Apple’s going to have to earn its keep another way. The bottom line is that (1) Windows is good enough for most education uses; and (2) Windows in any large organization is manageable (because of the PC caretaking staff.) All the nightmare glitches and unsolveable problems heaped on the general public by Windows = future for mac in the consumer market (otherwise perhaps no future at all).
Name one company that’s threatened to drop Mac support.
Look, goofball, nearly all major applications making the transition from OS 9 to OS X did so by being “ported” to the Carbon API, which means they run on both OS 9 and OS X. The majority of companies making Mac applications don’t give a rat’s ass whether you, as the user, have made the switch.
The only major exception is Microsoft, and I suspect that’s what you’re basing your whole argument on. Office X is actually a 90% Carbon port but they hooked just enough into Cocoa to make it not work on OS 9. It’s not selling to old Office users at a high rate because the upgrade offers no new features other than OS X compatibility, but it’s still a full $300 upgrade from Office 2001 for OS 9. Microsoft is falling on their own sword with the way they managed this port: they should have made Office 2001 a full Carbon port with the ability to run on both OS 9 and OS X, and then decided whether to devote the resources to do a full Cocoa port for Office X, even if it took them into 2004, or continue with Carbon.
AppleForever is correct: “Poor OS X support” just isn’t an issue anymore. Period.
Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mac sales increase in 2003. Not dramatically, and surely not enough to stop the “Apple is dying” rumors (no amount could stop that, of course), but measurably.
I have no idea what Microsoft is doing…except probably what the columnist said about delays on almost all fronts. It will be tantalizing to see what happens with Linux. But, I think 2003 is going to be the year of OS X. I am not an Apple zealot and don’t work for Apple or anything like that. I think developer support is just getting warmed up – on both the desktop and unix sides. And, I also think we’ll see ever more radical hardware design from Apple too. I don’t know if Apple will add another digital lifestyle device, but I bet new and expanded functionality of the iPod will happen for sure.
> Bullshit someone else. It’s a slightly enhanced version of R5 PE.
Wrong again. I chat a little with Bernd and he say me that YellowTab have full access to BeOS code.
If YellowTab had only modified BeOS PE, then how they changed your interface? the OT also modified the BeOS yellow tabs?
> wow, you mean I missed GIMP/Photoshop/Office being uploaded there? I’m amazed.
Gim/Photoshop? Do you already saw Refraction and other similar apps?
Office? Gobe 2.0 isn’t sufficient?
Wait for more…
> yeah, as if people are going to use an OS which was abandoned by their creators 2 years ago. dream on.
I will and the community will, the futures developers will, the futures developers will. Here, in Brazil, have 89% of people that still use Win3.11/Win95/Win98. They not import with release dates, nor stopped development…
> > Lack of funding
> While they not selling your product, still not have funding.
> is it just me or did that sentence make no sense?
How a corporation can make money without sell your product?
> <blockquote>Before Be, Inc. sold its assets to Palm, Inc., we managed to close a deal allowing us to distribute the PE version and had started negotiations over the future of the Pro version. Koch Media was ready to reissue the copies of the Pro Version that they hadn’t managed to resell, to make it a part of a new distribution first called BeOS NG (New Generation), and now renamed to “Zeta”.</blockquote>
> Read it. straight from yellowtab.com. No mention at all of Dano. Only PE. Don’t talk about things you have obviously no clue about. If you’d atleast have seen Dano you’d know that what Yellowtab has is lightyears away from what Be had running behind closed doors. Effectively, you are just talking utter bullshit dude.
Do you know what’s Dano? Do you already saw Dano? When Be made your focus shift, they still continued developing BeOS. Then, when Be were sold to Palm, YellowTab get licensing this code (the actual BeOS) to yourself. See you: How you explain me that Zeta interface? They hacked the BeOS PE libs to chance the yellow tabs, get that Dano drivers and features…
> Yes. from R3 on until last year. I have been writing for begroovy.com. did some coverage from the CeBit 2000 regarding BeOS, helped out on BeForever.com and was running the now defunct iBug.org which was owned by Deej who has been working for Qubit and is/was running Benuited.org.
> And what is your background as far as BeOS goes if I may ask?
Oohh. You have contribute a lot to BeOS. Great!
Well, I use BeOS since R4 days, but I not had internet connection (my small city still not had an internet provider, now have). Then, in 2000, I write several comments about BeOS in OSNews. I’m a member and editor of BUG-Br, my BUG(www.bug-br.org.br) and VitaminaBe (www.vitaminabe.hpg.ig.com.br. Wrote small apps to BeOS (none published yet) in Gip-Be(www.gipbe.hpg.ig.com.br), and BlueEyedOS Webmaster(you know the URL).
> yes, thankfully as far aas windows goes times have moved on and it is fast and featureful nowadays. Nothing which could be said about Zeta.
Then wait, see with your own eyes and believe.
> right. the fairytale of windows BSODing all the time? 98 did that. I have a box at work running W2K which didn’t crash on me in 2 years. now repeat after me “Zeta is BeOS PE with clunky stuff bolted to various parts of it, nothing actually new” got it? fine.
My P4 running W2K crashes everytime when I’m hearing my Helloween mp3 and writing something in Word…
No. Find something plausible and show me. The YellowTab contract with Palm maybe can be used, for example…
> Ah, yes. the one based on Linux, right? Now how is that to be better than Linux if it effectively IS linux? ridiculous.
Ahahahaahaha. Do you have made some test with our kernel_server? Do you see the results? We not changing Linux, we only rewriting the BeOS APIs and increasind Linux speed with patches and code from our kernel_server. None changing the Linux kernel in yourself…
Now we choose linux because it is the second kernel with more drivers. We can port our kernel_server to FreeBSD too, just our kernel_server is fully posix compliant. It’s very nice see a strange kernel running Be APIs.
Have something ridiculous here? Only see your comment…
Michael VinÃcius de Oliveira
BlueEyedOS Webmaster
> P4 supports SMP, but it is disabled.
Is there any reason for Intel doing it?
From these ‘I’m so cool that I actually show people I have the Camel book’ troll came that…
> If you like the structure of FreeBSD, you’re bound to like Debian also 🙂
Working on a 100% FreeBSD company, if I wanted to have the same structure/experience/something FreeBSD on Linux, I’d grab a copy of Slackware and run it.
(From someone that used Debian for a long time and give it up, and yes now it’s using RedHat 8 because if all distros suck, RH 8 sucks less)
Name one company that’s threatened to drop Mac support.
Microsoft.
But maybe I should name companies that have already dropped Mac support?
– SAS
– SPSS
– Statistica
– WordPerfect
– Sybase dropped their Mac versions of PowerBuilder and Infomaker.
– Be (granted they don’t exist anymore. But when they did, the exited the Mac market and focused exclusively on Intel)
– NSF dropped Mac support for most of their business applications.
– Lawrence Berkeley dropped Mac support.
– Sybase dropped their Mac versions of PowerBuilder and Infomaker.
OS X did so by being “ported” to the Carbon API, which means they run on both OS 9 and OS X.
Carbon is a hack that only exists because Apple couldn’t convince developers to use Cocoa since they don’t have a large enough user base for OS X. Carbon doesn’t take full advantage of the OS X capabilities. Carbon apps are basically OS 9 applications that can run under OS X because of a gross hack.
The only major exception is Microsoft…
Is it? WordPerfect, Sybase, SAS, and Statistica seem to be pretty major companies to me.
The odds of Adobe pulling apple support anytime soon are zero to none.
I didn’t say they planned on pulling Apple support. What I said was that they complained about poor sales figures and that Apple wasn’t doing enough to promote OS X.
As for MS, it has never released any figures on how much it cost to port Office to OS X.
No, but they did release sales figures. As of July 2002, they had only sold 300,000 copies. They had expected to have sold 750,000 by that time.
“The biggest hindrance of Office sales is the price, not OS X takeup. That is obvious.”
It’s not obvious because if that were the case, Windows versions would be doing poorly as well. But Office XP has been doing quite well.
Mac haters can just begin to get used to the fact tht “poor OS X” support is on the verge of being total history. You’ll have to find something else to make FUD about.
I’m not a Mac hater. I quite like OS X. Unfortunately, Apple needs to get a new strategy because selling an awesome operating system on outdated and overpriced hardware isn’t working. That’s why I think Apple will port to x86, and possibly even start using x86 processors on some of their systems. IBM’s Power4 chip is intended to replace the CPUs currently being used in the RS/6000. In otherwords, Power4 is not a consumer level processor. It’s going to be too expensive for Apple to place in desktop systems.
P3 supports 2-way SMP.
P3 Xeon supports 8-way SMP.
P4 supports SMP, but it is disabled.
P4 Xeon supports 8-way and greater SMP.
I guess I just have some magical P4 XEON based SMP machine. I also guess that SuperMicro (http://www.supermicro.com/) just makes a whole slew of 533MHz FSB, 2.8GHz Xeon capable SMP motherboards w/ hyperthreading support in the BIOS for the heck of it. Show me a P3 capable of hyperthreading, 533MHz FSB, and 2.8GHZ speeds, please.
I like how, in your AMD ra-ra support, you never once mention that a use has to purchase specific Athlon processors to do SMP. Even if your claim against the P4 was true, which it isn’t, the Athlon line suffers from the exact design issue that you are trying to take Intel to task for.
Pot, kettle, black, etc…
It’s [Microsoft] not selling to old Office users at a high rate because the upgrade offers no new features other than OS X compatibility, but it’s still a full $300 upgrade from Office 2001 for OS 9.
When MS was pushing Win95 in August 1995, they released Ofice95, which offered NOTHING new but some 32-bit code. As one person observed back then on the USENET, “Microsoft put their compiler in Marketing mode…” History repeats itself.
<quote>Working on a 100% FreeBSD company, if I wanted to have the same structure/experience/something FreeBSD on Linux, I’d grab a copy of Slackware and run it.</quote>
Ask any old-time commercial Unix turned BSD fan and they will tell you quick that if you want a real Unix experience on a linux box then Slackware is the way to go.
I use RedHat 8.0. I have seven years of IT experience and work mostly on Solaris but also my boss has a hard on for SuSE so we have a lot of SuSE linux boxes at work and all the programmers where I work are slowly making the move to SuSE. Yeah, I don’t want to hear it.
I thought about hooking my little laptop up to the network and grabbing gentoo and going all l33t with a linux compiled for my machine. I then thought better of it. In around two hours, I had a fully usable customized linux machine with XFT, Gnome 2.0 (yeah I like gnome), the full set of Windows fonts from my wife’s box, all my loki games (Castle Wolfenstein too), apt, multimedia stuff, browser plugins and everything set up just the way I want it. It was, considering my five years of linux experience, a very easy install. However, the big key is the excellent set of desktop-focused system tools and the fact the distro is designed around the desktop I prefer (Gnome).
It was easier than the Slackware I started on back in the day.
I am too damn old to be that l33t. I do software configuration as well as sysadmin work where I am at and have compiled enough damn software to fill every raid array most of you have ever seen. I got on that compile a day trip when Gnome 2.0.x first came out. I compiled the whole desktop without garnome piece by piece just like I wanted it. I compiled Mozilla, with XFT patches so it would work on a non-XFT system, with gtk2 and full plugin-support. Those 3 hour compiles are nuts That broke me off that bad habit. Screw that nonsense. It is not worth it.
Not when a distro has taken the time to build it well.
If Redhat had a fuller list of configuration tools closer to SuSE and graphical boot messages screen then I would have nothing to want from the SuSe days.
If they shipped a version of all the packages optimized fully for i686 platform. (Yeah, they use one flag for i486 for compatibility and another for some of the i686 hooks but that is not as good.) I would not give a flat damn about the compile your own distros.
As it is I am happy. It is not perfect but no distro is perfect.
Let’s see TexStar’s apt-get and urpmi are basiclly all I need to keep my system up to date and be able to run 99% of any apps I need. I can use apt-get and urpmi both via a console or via a GUI. For apt-get I have the Synaptic GUI front-end and for urpmi well it’s part of MDK’s Control Center Package managemt GUI front end.
Idiot, the P4 Xeon and P4 are 2 DIFFERENT processors.
The Xeon is aimed at servers, and the P4 is aimed at consumers. They do basically have the same core however.
Xeon is designed for SMP and has a larger cache.
The consumer P4 is obviously designed for the mass market.
I think Intel deliberately crippled the SMP capabilities of the consumer P4 (not hyperthreading, thats different) so that morons like you would shell out the extra for the dual Xeon processors.
I could be wrong, maybe standard P4s do support dual processing, like the P3s did. Maybe P4s only support dual processing, not 8 way like the Xeons. I’m too lazy to do the research.
Dual AMD MP processors generally out benchmark dual Xeons on any worthwhile benchmark. Why anyone would buy a dual Xeon setup is beyond me, unless they have shares in Intel.
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/debian-policy
> Bullshit someone else. It’s a slightly enhanced version of R5 PE.
Wrong again. I chat a little with Bernd and he say me that YellowTab have full access to BeOS code.
If YellowTab had only modified BeOS PE, then how they changed your interface? the OT also modified the BeOS yellow tabs?
admittedly I got that one wrong, I remembered the early days of yellowtab and theior plans then. Blame them for not stating that outright on their page.
> wow, you mean I missed GIMP/Photoshop/Office being uploaded there? I’m amazed.
Gim/Photoshop? Do you already saw Refraction and other similar apps?
Office? Gobe 2.0 isn’t sufficient?
Wait for more…
Certainly, could possibly stack up to OSS counterparts but not to commercial products. No, GoBe 2.0 is not sufficient as it is not fully compatible with Office and is a closed source application from a dead company.
> yeah, as if people are going to use an OS which was abandoned by their creators 2 years ago. dream on.
I will and the community will, the futures developers will, the futures developers will. Here, in Brazil, have 89% of people that still use Win3.11/Win95/Win98. They not import with release dates, nor stopped development…
Brazil is certainly not the biggest market. As you say yourself, they use older windows versions and are happy, otherwise BeOS would have succeeded before when it was in full force.
> > Lack of funding
> While they not selling your product, still not have funding.
> is it just me or did that sentence make no sense?
How a corporation can make money without sell your product?
that sentence still makes no sense.
> <blockquote>Before Be, Inc. sold its assets to Palm, Inc., we managed to close a deal allowing us to distribute the PE version and had started negotiations over the future of the Pro version. Koch Media was ready to reissue the copies of the Pro Version that they hadn’t managed to resell, to make it a part of a new distribution first called BeOS NG (New Generation), and now renamed to “Zeta”.</blockquote>
> Read it. straight from yellowtab.com. No mention at all of Dano. Only PE. Don’t talk about things you have obviously no clue about. If you’d atleast have seen Dano you’d know that what Yellowtab has is lightyears away from what Be had running behind closed doors. Effectively, you are just talking utter bullshit dude.
Do you know what’s Dano? Do you already saw Dano? When Be made your focus shift, they still continued developing BeOS. Then, when Be were sold to Palm, YellowTab get licensing this code (the actual BeOS) to yourself. See you: How you explain me that Zeta interface? They hacked the BeOS PE libs to chance the yellow tabs, get that Dano drivers and features…
see above, if they would have a site which has consistent information, that slip up would not have occured. Yes, I know Dano. Do you given that your main argument so far was trying to ridicule me in an attempt to allege I never used BeOS?
> yes, thankfully as far aas windows goes times have moved on and it is fast and featureful nowadays. Nothing which could be said about Zeta.
Then wait, see with your own eyes and believe.
I don’t believe in vaporware. I won’t use closed source software yet again in regards to a hobbyist OS, I saw where that went last time. I’m done with sinking money into such endeavours.
> right. the fairytale of windows BSODing all the time? 98 did that. I have a box at work running W2K which didn’t crash on me in 2 years. now repeat after me “Zeta is BeOS PE with clunky stuff bolted to various parts of it, nothing actually new” got it? fine.
My P4 running W2K crashes everytime when I’m hearing my Helloween mp3 and writing something in Word…
No. Find something plausible and show me. The YellowTab contract with Palm maybe can be used, for example…
I was able to crash BeOS too, anything proven? Nothing apart from the fact that the individual install matters. Crashing a clean install of any modern OS with day to day use is a thing of the past.
> Ah, yes. the one based on Linux, right? Now how is that to be better than Linux if it effectively IS linux? ridiculous.
Ahahahaahaha. Do you have made some test with our kernel_server? Do you see the results? We not changing Linux, we only rewriting the BeOS APIs and increasind Linux speed with patches and code from our kernel_server. None changing the Linux kernel in yourself…
Now we choose linux because it is the second kernel with more drivers. We can port our kernel_server to FreeBSD too, just our kernel_server is fully posix compliant. It’s very nice see a strange kernel running Be APIs.
Have something ridiculous here? Only see your comment…
Eh, I’m sorry, but you effectively backed up my comment by saying that BlueEyedOS is little more than a mutilated Linux install.
In 2003 we will see.
The Amiga make a small comeback in the Amiga one
BEOS is not dying but will continue to struggle slowly as the small groups making Be clones start to work together.
Embedded systems will grow in leaps and bounds as always.
PDA’s and phones will begin to merge
Apple will be forced to do something about the speed of its systems (what I don’t know)
KDE and Gnome will continue to grow. KDE will release 3.1 sometime soon and it already looks very good. (Hint I’m using RC5)
The major Linux distros will see some more shuffling of their positions.
At the end of the year Lycoris, Xandros, Linows etc will start to fight each other. Probably with marketing.
The oldest Linux distro alive will still continue.
FreeBSD will get better.
A lot of Free Software apps will improve. (Mozilla might remove cruft). The office apps like Koffice, OpenOffice.Org will improve.
Heaps more cool games will come out for all systems.
And seriously the Commodore 64 will make a comeback in 2003.
Thies is realy the perfect model for so wonderful linux community. God, i am so happy that i never let myself caught into that awful linux community.
Thies shows exactly why he is not with the BeOS community anymore, he could never fit in!
Michael, i agree with you, Zeta is one of the best looking OS for 2003. Oh yeah, photoshop, office???? Linux wants to get as close as they can to windows so they really need that. BeOS (Zeta) build their own apps, like it has to with a proffesional OS.
Thies is realy the perfect model for so wonderful linux community. God, i am so happy that i never let myself caught into that awful linux community.
Sorry to disappoint you, I recently switched from OS X to FreeBSD. I don’t run Linux. How would you actually know that the linux community is awful if you as you state yourself were never in it? Please enlighten me. Also what exactly would be so awful about it? That I rather use opensource software to not sink money in a doomed project again and ensure that the code won’t go under if a company does? If you want to bet your money on Zeta, feel free to do so. FreeBSD/Gnome2 does the job for me right now. If OpenBeOS one distant day reaches it’s level of usability I’ll consider it.
Thies shows exactly why he is not with the BeOS community anymore, he could never fit in!
How so? Just spewing propaganda or any actual backup for that claim?
Michael, i agree with you, Zeta is one of the best looking OS for 2003. Oh yeah, photoshop, office???? Linux wants to get as close as they can to windows so they really need that. BeOS (Zeta) build their own apps, like it has to with a proffesional OS.
which has failed before. It’s a nice concept when you don’t have to think about revenue in an OSS project, but once you try to market an OS and you rely on other companies or individuals to provide the applications which will effectively sell the OS, you are fucked. You want an example? Well, how about BeOS?
The answer to all you questions is that Erwin is trolling thats all.
Hug0: DRM is an AMERICAN law, and in case you haven’t noticed Linux is developed and used in many countries throughout the world, and microsoft sell’s windows all over the world also.
Actually, there is NO American law passed in Congress forcing Microsoft to support DRM. The only DRM-related law I can think of it DMCA, which doesn’t force Microsoft to place DRM tech into its OS. However, it can’t reverse engineer DRM-covered media legally, thus a whole new market would be lost.
So if you think Microsoft got DRM for world domination or because they were forced to, you are wrong. It is for profit.
Richard James: Other countries have laws like the DCMA, for instance Austalia and the EU (I think).
Australia, yes. EU, not yet. It haven’t been passed, IIRC. Remember, in US and Australia, this kind of law was passed amid political scandals, like the Clinton and Lewinsky scandal in the US.
Erwin: Zeta can finaly show what BeOS couldn’t to the big public due to management failure and lack of commercial view.
How sure are you that YT won’t have management failures and lack of commercial (i.e. marketing) view?
Nathan: OS X on x86 powered hardware??? Who knows it might happen, but they could as easily go with the new IBM Power4 chip.
There is nothing new about the Power4, I think you mean the 970 or the GPUL.
Nathan: how many would stay the lovely looking Macs??
Well, speaking of the looks, none of the Mac users I know bought their Macs only because it was beautiful….
Nathan: Will they keep their existing percentage in the school system in the US?
As if they are keeping their existing percentage in education – it has been going down. IIRC, 2000 Dell became the largest hardware maker for this sector.. then Apple took it back for 2001. Wonder how it goes for 2002…
Cesar: The real problem for Debian is that there’s no central coordination, the maintainers do what they want to do and don’t mind if it breaks the system. There is why a stable Debian release takes SO MUCH to appear.
The anarchy system you speak of is that in the experimental stage. Once it reaches “unstable” it is about as stable, perhaps even more (depending on what you use) as other commercial distributions.
r00t: They are just dumb companies who want to take linux, and turn it into a Windows lookalike…
Well, some of these “dumb” companies manage to succeed in their goals, the goals of every company, to make profit.
r00t: Ok ok you CAN do a stage-3 install, but that would just be crazy because the main reason that you would use Gentoo is for the compiling-optimizations.
There you just debunked your entire argument. Congrats. I would much rather use Gentoo with Stage-3 install than to use Debian because Gentoo is more bleeding egde than Debian. When I want stability, I would use Debian.
Joe Powers: I stand behind my statement. Go to the Intel web site. Xeon is a P3 chip designed for SMP. The P3 & P4 don’t support SMP.
The latest Xeons have been based on Pentium 4s. The fastest is a 2.4GHz with HT support.
JCooper: A newbie goes to a linux forum, newsgroup or site and gets abuse
Actually, when I first started using Linux (Linux-Mandrake 7.1), the newbie sites I went to was very helpful. I especially like a Yahoo! Club (what do they call it now? Groups?). At that time, never once a RTFM. But certain places, like Slashdot, or on IRC, they can be pretty mean. Thankfully I’m such a newbie that I didn’t knew about these places…
JCooper: Happy new year to all the non anti-M$ and anti-linux readers
Happy new year to you too (wait, I can be considered both pro- and anti-MS and also both pro- and anti-Linux… interesting).
Michael VinÃcius de Oliveira: Uuuhm… No. See bebits.com
The last I went there, it was mostly alpha software. None as functional as those I can get from Linux and better still from Windows.
Michael VinÃcius de Oliveira: Behhh! Wrong! Zeta Codebase is that BeOS also as Dano, that were developed until August, 16-2001 by Be, Inc and until now is in development by YellowTab! Eat your words when talk of BeOS!
Actually, from what I have read, only certain parts have BeOS code, as a whole, it was written in house. But of course, I wouldn’t know. You are the BeOS expert, even if you are from a opposing camp.
Michael VinÃcius de Oliveira: Zeta have present and stability to beat Windows and Linux.
That I really have to see.
Kai: Sorry for the long post
Wait till you see MY post 🙂
Simba: Adobe ported PhotoShop to OS X and reported dismal sails of the OS X port.
They actually sold both together. Their dismal is over the lack of use (meaning lost of investment) over the port.
Jim Lynch: The Complete Destruction of the KDE Desktop.
Jim Lynch, are you a W|ndows user? Have you ever tried KDE?
I’m a LINUX user I like a lot KDE.
And if you don’t know you can have installed KDE and GNOME in the same machine:)
Linux/Unix best than DOS
KDE/GNOME best than W|ndows
Linux -> Secure, without bugs, when you configure your PC you don’t need to restart your computer, don’t have blue screens with errors, don’t send information to any company… etc…
If you don’t belive it, try it:)
Apple’s OS X, while being a great OS (thanks to those guys at FreeBSD) will not be on everyones desktop as long as special hardware is needed. I don’t trust a machine I didn’t make myself, so I won’t buy OS X until I can run it on my Athlon XP.
Windows is the starndard for sure, but it is very slow and demanding. I have it only to be able to run games, and for programming with my favorite language Delphi. But I am slowly switching to Linux (now that Kylix is out there).
Linux is free, and has A LOT of apps, but it is still to slow when it comes to the GUI. Sometimes slower than Windows… although I can’t seem to get it to go to Blue Screen of Death!!!
BeOS on the other hand is a masterpiece. Fast, reliable, easy to program (very nice API) and a multimedia paradise. I do have to build my hardware around it.. that is true, but when Zeta comes out… no more troubles.
By the way. Yellowtab have bought the Dano code from Palm. They used it as their base. Their Zeta version supports almost as much hardware as Windows. Some stuff are missing, but they are too few to count. And since they own the code, getting drivers out, or the Api to create them will be easy.
The BeOS community is alive and thriving. Believe me. Just taking into account my experience with BeOS 5 PE Max Edition, there are more users of BeOS out there now, than ever. Most of them are in Europe of course, that is struggling to get away from Windows.
So in a few years we will be able to say:
The King is Dead. Long live the King.
Remember this when you tell your grandchildren about the Virus called Windows. I WAS THERE.
So in a few years we will be able to say:
The King is Dead. Long live the King.
I take it the king is meant to be Windows or Microsoft.
I have heard the above more times than I can count going as far back as OS/2 Warp3 which was touted as the windows killer and many OSes after it.
All I see is that all those other OSes have over time dwindled into obscurity again.
Linux just isn’t there yet as far as ease of use and software support goes, OS X sticks to PPC and its niche market with the rest being Hobbyist OSes and not a real alternative for the masses.
PS: how many million BeOS users are there now? Or to put it in other words, what kind of information can you provide to substantiate the claim that there are now more BeOS users than ever? I’d be satisfied if you would as an example provide statistics of BeOS centric news sites comparing their number of hits nowadays to the days of R4 / R5.
<Jonathan Bailes>Ask any old-time commercial Unix turned BSD fan and they will tell you quick that if you want a real Unix experience on a linux box then Slackware is the way to go.</Jonathan Bailes>
Jonathan, if you read my original comment I told that I use RH 8: “and yes now it’s using RedHat 8 because if all distros suck, RH 8 sucks less” and that’s what you said in your last paragraph as long as I understood it
And yes, XFT-enabled Mozilla rocks.
I’m not a commercial Unix turned BSD fan, but I’m fond of Slackware and all free BSDs because it always remembers me that GUI config programs are great, but sometimes only vi can save you
<rajan r>They (Adobe Photoshop for OSX) actually sold both together. Their dismal is over the lack of use (meaning lost of investment) over the port.</rajan r>
I don’t know in Malaysia or in the US, but in Brazil some (or maybe most, I need to research that) potential Photoshop for OS X buyers are still using Classic on pre-G3 machines.
I don’t know in Malaysia or in the US, but in Brazil some (or maybe most, I need to research that) potential Photoshop for OS X buyers are still using Classic on pre-G3 machines.
Hey you remembered I live in that god-forsaken land!
To cesar: I was not making myself very clear. I should address my comments better.
I actually meant to back up your RH8 experience by revealing my own, not dis you for the choice. The comments on RH8 were primarily addressing r00t’s comment that is a toy disto.
BTW, yes sometimes only vi can save the day. I would like better gui-configuration tools for my desktop machine but frankly speaking keep them the hell off of my servers. I would much prefer to ssh in and run on the command line because it is still the quickest way to get things done. We keep Webmin around for the junior admins. :->
To Vassilis:
You say that the GUI for linux is too slow. I experience slower launch times that is sure and a lot of people not just the X guys (everyone love blaming X), but the widget, application and desktop development teams have plenty of work to do to make the little things like the movement of windows and response feel smoother.
That being said my experience is that Linux is smoother than Windows on a box with lots of applications running at the same time. It performs better as a desktop under load. IMO.
Launch times — Windows for the most part.
1 or 2 apps running — Windows feels faster overall.
Lots of apps running (more than 4 major apps) — Linux feels faster.
But that is just my opinion.
>By the way. Yellowtab have bought the Dano code from Palm.
Where did you get that info from?
There is no info about that on YT web site.
>The BeOS community is alive and thriving. Believe me.
Yeah, right. Look at what happened to BeOS related web sites. Most are dead. BeForever, BeNews, BeTips,… And those which are not dead, are updated once a week at most.
Or look at BeOS mailing lists. No traffic. Or BeOS web forums. Almost no traffic.
>experience with BeOS 5 PE Max Edition
It’s hacked PE with bunch of drivers and patches.
>there are more users of BeOS out there now, than ever
This is better to be a joke…. ’cause it’s ridiculous.
If you wanna say that there is more BeOS users now then in r4 or r4.5 time, I gotta know what are you smoking 🙂
Talked to some guy last night already whom I believe when he says that Yellowtab somehow managed to license the Dano specific code from Palm. It sounds rather unlikely, but oh well.
Totally agree on the point that there have never been as few BeOS users as now.
BeForever is dead? Color me retarded, thought Pete is still around. But then again I haven’t loooked at the site in months either.
Who cares about Quark running on OS X. Quark has already started loosing the battle and Adobe Indesign 2 is taking over. If you don’t know the publishing industry is still mac overall and there is an industry switch to Indesign.
Mac OS X on Intel that would rock…..
Cheers to all Linux and X users…….
Who cares about Quark running on OS X. Quark has already started loosing the battle and Adobe Indesign 2 is taking over. If you don’t know the publishing industry is still mac overall and there is an industry switch to Indesign.
I could easily utilize that debating strategy and say “Who cares about running OS X. Windows has already won”.