Home > Mandriva, Mandrake, Lycoris > Mandrake Linux 9.1 Beta 1 AvailableMandrake Linux 9.1 Beta 1 Available Submitted by dave_sn 2003-01-10 Mandriva, Mandrake, Lycoris 73 CommentsThe first beta of Mandrake Linux 9.1 is downsized to only one CD. A complete list of packages on this CD is available here. BTW, OSNews would be happy to host your preview. Update: Screenshots.About The Author Eugenia LoliEx-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 73 Comments 2003-01-10 9:08 am Isn’t it only like a month or 2 since 9.0 came out?I mean, I know, “release early and often”, but this is kinda ridiculous! 2003-01-10 9:12 am I am afraid I will have to agree. For both Red Hat and Mandrake and whoever follows their frenzy releases.Many times in the past I have asked for distros to become “platforms” in order to capitalize and offer something better and innovative than just a collection of OSS software thrown in together, but these often releases show that the distro creators do not have such plans. 2003-01-10 9:21 am I think that it’s good that they continue to update their systems although I would prefer it if they would do it through an online update system rather than something like this. Linux has a lot of shortcomings (compared to commercial releases) and these releases help fix them. Yes Linux is more stable than Windows, but it lacks in areas that people expect things to just work. This kind of release is not ideal, but it is better than nothing. 2003-01-10 9:22 am I don’t agree. To me, it seems normal to have a development version incorporating all the latest release (especially Xft and XFree pre-4.3 which were missing in 9.0), so why not release a testing version ?I agree that an Alpha should have been better, but releasing a version quite early in development cycle is much better if you want to find and incorporate user wanted changes. 2003-01-10 9:28 am Can anyone tell me whether the new version ships with an unstripped libc?Thank you, Jens 2003-01-10 9:28 am Atleast they got KDE 3.1 rc6 included.Looks pretty sweet when I tried it last weekDo you guys know how to edit the menu in Gnome?Its so easy to customize the menu in KDE 2003-01-10 9:31 am Mandrake includes a menu config gui tool for both Gnome 2 and KDE 3. 2003-01-10 9:32 am That’s missing the point. Linux is still behaving like an alpha-status OS with new releases every now and then.This is about the *feel* it gives the new / potential user: The very moment he/she starts to settle in, getting used to how it looks, works, etc., it changes *again*.I have nothing against eliminating bugs and security holes. But it’s not like this or that is *patched*, the whole thing is *shifting* constantly.Linux people enjoy that, I know. But for someone who is not interested in the *OS* but rather in the things he wants to *do* on that OS, a new release every couple of months is sheer hell. Linux camp is flaming Windows for requiring you to download security fixes virtually every day – well, Linux basically asks you to *reinstall* your system every six months…I’d prefer switching from Windows to Linux *today*. All I am waiting for is Linux achieving a status that could even remotely be called “stable” so I can focus on work instead… 2003-01-10 9:33 am ThanksWhat about for redhat 8.0? 2003-01-10 9:34 am No matter what the distros do, somebody will complain. Releasing too often? Ridiculous! Not releasing often enough? Ridiculous too!This is precisely why we have dozens of Linux distributions. If you don’t like frequent updates then go with Debian (releasing once every two years or so) or Turbolinux/Conectiva (roughly one release per year). Mandrake and Red Hat are clearly for those who want to run the latest and like to stay up-to-date with development.Just do a search on this forum to see how many people complain that Debian stable is out-of date. Sorry Charlie, I don’t agree that releasing often (or otherwise) is ridiculous. Given the number of available distros out there, it is your COMPLAINING about one distributions’s release policy that IS RIDICULOUS. 2003-01-10 9:37 am I know where your coming from.Thats why I always skip a major release.Redhat 6.1skip 7.0Now got 8.0wow so much has changed.You begin to notice the improvements made by them 2003-01-10 9:50 am Right now there is only 2 “major” distros which are offering a decent “upgrade” experience: Debian and Gentoo. All the RPM based distro suck at upgrading when a new release is out and if you do not want to end up in deep s*** you have to re-install and that’s a real drawback.As long as distros are difficult to upgrade from one release to the next one we’ll be in troubles.I do not like MS but their “Windows Update” is far more intuitive and easy than anything in the Linux world (Granted, the rebooting sucks big time and always will).I still have a laptop running Windows 2000 (also MDK 9.0) installed 2-years ago and I just keep updating it when required and that’s it.I like Mandrake and I am running 9.0 at work on my Workstation, CVS server, Web Server and at home on my Workstation and Laptop. It takes so long to get all these machines upgraded and configured properly with different URPMI sources (plf, textar, MDK Club, Contrib, etc..) that I just do not feel re-installing everything every bloody 6 months!So I was using Gentoo 1.2 and replaced it with MDK 9.0 when pbms arised to upgrade to GCC 3.2 but as soon as Gentoo 1.4 is officially out next week I will use my laptop as a test bed to see how I feel about this new release. If it’s good then I will convert all my machines back to Gentoo with EVMS.What I want is a regular (continuous?) update/upgrade path (Debian, Gentoo, others?) instead of stair effect update/upgrade (Mandrake, RedHat, SuSE, etc…)./Fred 2003-01-10 10:00 am I like to see apt-get and synaptic on all distros.Makes upgrade a whole lot simpler. 2003-01-10 10:16 am >What about for redhat 8.0?Neither 8.0 or 8.1b have support for the Gnome 2 menus. 2003-01-10 10:27 am you mean i have to edit the file by handthat’s so dumb.Menu editing is one thing i miss the most from windows.ah windows, three years since I last touch windowsShould have installed KDE instead of Gnome.Oh well too late for that. 2003-01-10 10:32 am The mantra of open source has been “release early, release often”. Many people find it difficult to cope with all the new releases that occur and subsequently find it confusing.However, remember that this is a beta release – not a final release. If you are not “into” Linux, then you are simply best off leaving this release well alone until the stable one comes out (about every six months?). Don’t forget that the betas and release candidates will be tested for the next couple of months. Consider them as similar to Windows updates.And if even this is too much, just stick to the x.2 candidates. These have been tested extensively by end users and have an awful lot of bugs ironed out. This occurs on a cycle of 1.5-2 years, which is hardly often enough to draw complaints.There is nothing that says that you NEED to use these releases. You can happily ignore them, relying upon security updates to keep your system up to date, and only install when you want to. Mandrake are giving you the choice to do what you want. Would you honestly prefer to be told what to do?As far as I can see, everyone gets the best of both worlds. Early adopters, Linux fans and newbies can try out the latest release, while those who like a more sedate cycle can just stick to the x.2 releases and only bother with it every couple of years.Personally, I find it heartening to know that a company is striving to sort out the bugs that exist in every operating system. 2003-01-10 10:35 am To change Gnome menus – open a nautilus window in Gnome. Click on “Start Here”, go to where it says applications. Right click to make a new launcher, and put in the application details. Voila. Menus should be changed. 2003-01-10 10:40 am I realize its Friday night, most of you appear to have had a few drinksso I will explain something to you. If they release too often for yourliking…don’t upgrade? It appears you can’t make up your mind if youwant cutting edge or you want stable. And blaming the distro for it.Don’t get upset you can’t have the latest and greatest in completely stable form. This is the way I see things and it might be something you want to adopt as well. I’ll take RedHats 7.x releases as an example.Redhat releases redhat 7.0 = BETA 1Redhat releases redhat 7.1 = BETA 2Redhat releases redhat 7.3 = Stable # Time to buyYou don’t ‘need’ to get Redhat 8.1 but it’s there for those who want it..Just be happy they still support 8.0 or 7.3 whatever you’re using. 2003-01-10 10:42 am SuSE has a great online update. You can upgrade elements of it as well, granted not as good as Gentoo but its something. 2003-01-10 10:45 am This really need a drag and drop menu editing systemlike windows.And what the heck is “clean up by name”how bout sort by name, file type, etc..I think its time to change distroi dont wanna deal with this sh*t for two yearshow is mandrake compare to redhat? 2003-01-10 10:51 am Thanks, it worked!Really need to work on drag and drop menu editing system.Maybe I should get a client-side programming job instead of server-side. 2003-01-10 11:07 am I see I am still not understood.You people claim that Linux is oh so stable and secure. On the other hand, sure you have to get the latest patches, because software per definitionem *is* buggy.Well, there you are. My RedHat 7.x basically does everything I want it to, but sure I want bugfixes and security patches.But I don’t want to reinstall everything.And I don’t want to upgrade to the latest release of KDE because it looks cooler or something, unless it offers a feature that I would consider usefull.The thing is, “release early, release often”, get that 3.0.19 out of the door with many new nifty features that have bugs of their own and require doing things completely different from the 2.8.12 of last year, and don’t care s**t for people who don’t *want* the new version.Open Source is blaming the “Cathedral” for so many things, but the one thing they could have learned from them they still are ignorant of: Providing people with a solid and stable environment that they don’t have to fiddle with any more than absolutely necessary, and making it a one-click issue to get whatever is required to get *more* stability and *more* security.You’d be surprised how many people couldn’t care less for any *new* features, and only want the *old* bugs removed. Guess what? Just about everyone who isn’t a geek, read, the majority. And even some of the geeks (like me) would rather take their productivity elsewhere than learning what’s changed in the latest “distro”. 2003-01-10 11:10 am 20 Menu entries in the KDE menu?!?No wonder that a newbie is confused. 2003-01-10 11:12 am One solution would be to keep “old” branches supported, i.e. bring the 3.0.19 on but also continue providing the v2 branch with bug fixes and security patches.But there appears the drawback of “free software” development: *Working* on the *old* stuff isn’t half as fun as *playing* with the *new*, so “nobody” does it.The “Cathedral” doesn’t have that option. They *have* to support the “old stuff”.That’s something the “free” movement still has to learn: This world isn’t just black & white. There are things the Bazaar lacks in. Bringing the best of both worlds together, however, requires an open mind… 2003-01-10 11:21 am I don’t agree with you.Debian and gentoo are not the only easy upgradable distro. Moreover it is easy to install a soft in gentoo but it is very difficult to uninstall it : no dependencies checked during uninstallation)Mandrake now has urpmi and it work very well.I have upgrade from 8.2 to 9.0 very easily and now I daily upgrade to cooker and I had no problems.So stop blamming rpm. If the package are well done (rpm or deb), the dependencies check will be well done 2003-01-10 11:33 am “Debian and gentoo are not the only easy upgradable distro. Moreover it is easy to install a soft in gentoo but it is very difficult to uninstall it : no dependencies checked during uninstallation)”Yes you are right. It’s a planned feature for Portage in the not too long future “Mandrake now has urpmi and it work very well.”To some extent yes. I have URPMI sources setup for Plf, Texstar, Mandrake Club, Contrib and Security Updates and after updating quite a lot of things I have a broken OpenOffice… amongst other things. Did URPMI warn me? NO!“I have upgrade from 8.2 to 9.0 very easily”Lucky you “and now I daily upgrade to cooker and I had no problems.”You’re a brave soul, mate “So stop blamming rpm. If the package are well done (rpm or deb), the dependencies check will be well done”I’m not blaming RPM at all. I could not care less what packaging system is used as long as I can update something easily, get rid of the update easily if it’s broken and keep my system running for months without spending days re-installing.I agree with you that making packages, whether they are .deb or .rpm or whatever the flavour of the day is a craft that requires great care AND good testing which is missing in Mandrake (and many other commercial testing) for lack of resources (manpower, time and sometimes financial)./Woollhara 2003-01-10 11:41 am The Linux Kernel and the shell are really top class.Its the desktop part that needs some real work.For example, windows has just as must menus as kde or gnome,yet is more clean and simple. Why because its cascaded.windows hasprograms -> accessories -> system -> some app -> office -> word excelwhere as kde and gnome hasaccessories->some appgraphics-> some appextras(what the fuck is extra) -> accessories -> some app -> graphics -> some appsame things in two different places lolinstall both kde and gnome, now shit starts flying all over the placeno wonder my girlfriend gets confused. 2003-01-10 11:45 am “To some extent yes. I have URPMI sources setup for Plf, Texstar, Mandrake Club, Contrib and Security Updates and after updating quite a lot of things I have a broken OpenOffice… amongst other things. Did URPMI warn me? NO!”I was running gentoo for a while there, until one day gentoo decided to upgrade libpng and totally trash all my apps. 2003-01-10 12:13 pm “you gentoo sluts are starting to really piss me off.”Use what you want, mate! If you’re happy with MDK so be it, all power to you.“I was running gentoo for a while there, until one day gentoo decided to upgrade libpng and totally trash all my apps.”Granted. Portage has had its share of fuck up.It does mean linux distros have still a long way to go… 2003-01-10 12:31 pm > The Linux Kernel and the shell are really top class.…for a Unix system, yes, but now we are getting *really* OT so I’ll stop. 😉 2003-01-10 12:59 pm Eugenia: Neither 8.0 or 8.1b have support for the Gnome 2 menus.The applications:/// URI on Nautilus should work – I haven’t tested it on RH 8, but on stock GNOME 2 works. 2003-01-10 1:05 pm This is hardly a “menu editor”, it is simply a hack on Nautilus to ease the problem. 2003-01-10 1:42 pm Eugenia: I think the reason they do such short release cycles for the desktop OS is because Linux is still basically beta software. Stuff like:– Menus– Icon theming– Interprocess comms– C++ ABIand so on are still in flux. Linux is still missing (or the current ones are barely adequate) many key pieces of technology. At the moment most users of Linux are also developers or interested observers, so frequent releases make sense. As Linux catches up with Windows on the desktop it’ll start stabilising and I should think releases will become less frequent, for the reasons stipulated so well by others above. For instance, Red Hat Advanced Server revs every few years, like Windows. Since the server side caught up and became stable, the release cycle has dropped.Menu editing is something that hasn’t been handled well imho. The new standardised system, although better than the old fragmented system still has usability issues (apparently categories suck usability wise) and it’s difficult to implement menu editors. The developers are aware of these issues, so I expect it will soon change again, and keep changing until it doesn’t suck and people are reasonably happy with it. 2003-01-10 1:48 pm How many betas were released for 9.0 before it went final? 2003-01-10 1:53 pm 4 betas and 3 RCs. Overall 7 releases before the final one(you could find that out easily by clicking above the Mandrake icon and read our previous stories; we have reported on all these releases . 2003-01-10 2:13 pm We are currently testing this new release for production use.As we currently use Mdk on the desktops and Debian on the servers, with this new release, I’m seriously wondering to migrate every single machine to MandrakeSoft’s products.This new 9.1b1 fits all my company’s needs for now : not a single hardware that’s not recognized (even some old strange stuff and brand new bleeding edge USB UFO’s), everything works, every laptop i’m currently testing works flawlessly.Basically, it’s a faster 9.0, stable as hell even with my torture tests, with the hardware working as well as under Windows 2k/XP (sometimes with even more possibilities).MandrakeSoft’s Mandrake 9.1 will surely be what everyone wanted a Linux distro to be ! 2003-01-10 2:24 pm Stefen: MandrakeSoft’s Mandrake 9.1 will surely be what everyone wanted a Linux distro to be !That’s a pretty strong statement, they way you put that. I’ve never had good luck with mandrake, not since 8.0 (I’ve tried every distro they’ve released since then) I’m stuck on redhat now, with debian on a system occasionally. I’ve tried quite a few distros, and none is what everyone wants a distro to be. There never will be in my opinion. That’s the beauty of linux. You don’t have to settle for just one thing. There are hundreds of distrobutions out there, because not everyone wants the same thing. 2003-01-10 2:29 pm > MandrakeSoft’s Mandrake 9.1 will surely be what everyone wanted a Linux distro to be ! Not for me, sorry. 2003-01-10 2:34 pm Well, I like the look of the desktop. I am a Debian user myself, running sawfish window manager as my desktop, and I have no desire to change. But for attracting potential customers, Mandrake are doing a wonderful job. True, they need to work on the upgrade process. I have had good and bad experience with that. I used to use Mandrake all the time. I think they have a nice desktop visually, but those blasted rpm dependencies are a nightmare when it comes to upgrading. 2003-01-10 2:39 pm Perhaps trying to get 9.1 quickly out the door has something to do with them needing a cash infusion.From the looks of it, it doesn’t appear to be anything different from 9.0. Mandrake has lost their advantage, IMO – it has unfortunately become extreme bloatware and not worth installing. If I want hardware recognition, I’d rather do a Knoppix HD install.And what’s with Mdk’s god awful menus? They still have that annoying “What to do?”, “Mandrake” and still GNOME and KDE get their own menus! I like options, but for God’s sake, take a little time and make your desktop organized and consistent. At least RH 8 got that down. 2003-01-10 2:40 pm The new releases for mandrake and redhat isnt much different than SP packs for windows in a sense. Its all upgrading to the latest packages and weeding out the errors. Personally I found too many errors in the Mandrake GUI’s in 9.0 for editing system things. It was easier to do it manually. That was the only problem i had. The movement of linux to a desktop OS thats still highly configurable without running a billion processes may finally have its best shot when 9.1 comes out. 2003-01-10 3:35 pm Eugenia: Actually, IIRC, you can edit GNOME 2’s menu is 9.1b… or so I heard from reviews.GetOutofHere: Well, in Windows, it is deleting, making and moving around shortcuts in your start menu folder. Very similar to GNOME. 2003-01-10 3:47 pm > Eugenia: Actually, IIRC, you can edit GNOME 2’s menu is 9.1b… or so I heard from reviews.But this is what I said too in the begining of our conversation! Both Mandrake 9 and 9.1b allows you to do that with the usage of an included GUI tool. We were talking about Red Hats inability to do so rightly, not Mandrakes. 2003-01-10 3:48 pm Frequent releases are okay by me, especially for an OS that is still struggling to mature in many things. When the first Redhat 8 Beta came out, Osnews whined that it was merely 6 weeks after the last 7.* stable release. As it turned out, most people would agree that Redhat 8 was a milestone for the desktop. I for one would have had it sooner than later. The question is not “how much time between releases”, but “Is the improvement value worth a new release”? 2003-01-10 4:05 pm I bought the 8.2 distro, and the 9.0 6 months after, = 150 Euro in one year.Two months after, a new version is coming out : 9.1, i think that the 9.1 final release will be issued in 2-3 months, then, if you buy every new version, in order to have the confort of the installation and all the major package on the 7 CD’s, it makes Mnadrake distro a quite costly one, vs windows which has a longer life….yes i know, Linux is better etc…i agree, that’s why iconverted from windows to linux.But one of the reasons was the low cost of the system.Of course, i can dlde it. But i want to support the editor in buying their package.When i bought the 9.0 set, i asked me if i should better wait for the 9.1 near coming mandrake. Finally, mayber i would have been a better idea…. 2003-01-10 4:08 pm Its been around 4 1/2 months since Mandrake’s last release. They have been busy making fixing bugs, and there have been no updates for about a month.I don’t think its too early for them to release another beta, but that’s just me. 2003-01-10 4:15 pm No, it is not 4 1/2 months! Please do some research first.The *download* edition (which has no support neither extra goodies as the rest of their Mandrake Linux products) was released on September 26th (http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1812 ). As for the RETAIL, boxed products, they were released throughout November (depending on the country)(http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=2097 )!! So it is 3 and half months for the download edition and JUST 2 months for the retail versions. 2003-01-10 4:25 pm While I am currently using MDK 9.0 I updated to KDE 3.1rc6 and Evolution 1.2 using urpmi. I personally don’t see a sufficient number of updates in other areas that ‘I’ care about. Some users may want the latest and greatest of everything and risk the bleeding edge vs. stability ratio. That is part of what makes the OSS ‘release early and often’ motto so wonderful. Someone whose first priority is stability can run a two year old distribution and someone who wants to live on the cutting edge while throwing stability to the wind can live in CVS. I choose a middle of the road path.With Linux everyone can have exactly what they want! 2003-01-10 4:55 pm If you are using Redhat for a server chances are you are using a 7.x series box heavily patched. As a server, updating every time a new distro comes out is not necessary.Besides, I believe that the next Advanced Server release will be with 8.1. Advanced Server upgrades do not follow the pace of the standard distro.I like the fast releases, but I also use it as my desktop at work.By the way, I have been getting a whole lot of updates from Redhat Bugzilla over the past few days. A whole bunch of bugs I filed with the 8.0 beta six months ago are being fixed (mostly interface issues), so the next release seems right around the corner. 2003-01-10 5:01 pm > And what’s with Mdk’s god awful menus? They still have that> annoying “What to do?”,easy fix, this is an option that can easily be turned off. I actually think mandrake made the right decision on this. This is a distro for the newbie, a newbie doesn’t know what “kaboodle” is, though “listen to cd’s” makes sense. They are also aware that this may bother the more experienced user, but anyone who has actually used their distro knows how to turn it of.> Of course, i can dlde it. But i want to support the editor> in buying their package.I want to support mandrake too, and i do, but that doesn’t necessarily mean buying every release. I download some of em, buy em if I like ’em or if there’s a commercial package i want. You can also support them through donations if you want.But support needn’t always be financial. I support them by spending a few hours now and then volunteering for the club , doing a little translating, and so on.And although it’s not always directly supporting a distro, you can support the whole community by actually taking the time to file a bug report on a bug you encountered. 2003-01-10 5:09 pm If mandrake wants to be more of a desktop distro, they’ve got to work on the simple UI problems… For example, I don’t want to see stupid Kandall’s tips after installing the distro. MS took it out from 2000 onwards. Even when the tips are shown, why on earth does the title bar have KTips on it? Joe User would not be interested in the wierd names for KDE/GNOME apps (KonCD, for example). Third, even if they want an opening screen after installation, they should put a beginners desktop tutorial just like SUSE has done. The help system in KDE still sucks for the average user. 2003-01-10 5:14 pm I think this news is not being interpreted correctly.Everyone sees it as a “rush” move. I think it’s quite the opposite.The release of Mandrake 9.0 was done in a REAL rush. Accordingto many testers and cooker developers, this was because of a shortbeta period, which led the team to hit their heads against the releasedeadline.This time they are beginning the “public beta” phase WAY early sothey will have a longer time to squash as much bugs as possible.There’s still some 3 months until the 6-month release period isover. So, that leaves them with that much time to get bugreportsand work in a less rushed manner. 2003-01-10 6:22 pm “I was running gentoo for a while there, until one day gentoo decided to upgrade libpng and totally trash all my apps.”I don’t think portage upgraded libpng in its own… I’m sure it was you who do it, and you should have read the Changelog before doing that…Anyware, if you people are not happy with distros releasing new versions every 3 months, just stick to Debian, you should be happy. 2003-01-10 7:15 pm 1) Right click in the menu and you can delete/add/move/edit/etc.2) use NautilusI am using Gnome 2.1.5 in FreeBSD, they exist. 🙂 2003-01-10 7:55 pm Here it is:January 10th, 2003 – Mandrake 9.1 Beta1 – The Mandrake 9.1 Beta is now being mirrored and will soon be available for testing. This first beta includes Linux 2.4.21pre2, XFree 4.3Beta plus a port of the installation procedure and several Mandrake applications to Gtk2.0. The final desktop look is not available in this release. Additionally, this first Beta of Mandrake Linux 9.1 has been downsized to only one CD. We will use the RPM-voting system as a way to determine which applications must be included in the distribution, which can be safely removed, and what packages should be handled on a priority basis. With your input we can optimize our resources to produce a better distribution. Who knows the needs of the community better than the users themselves? You can add the packages you need and vote for them here. Don’t forget to download the new beta as soon as it is available from usual locations, and report bugs.The bold passages highlight that:1) we should abstain from judging the look of the distribution2) we shouldn’t complain about missing software (as this beta was core-software only)3) they have hurried this beta because they want to gather as much input as possible from the community before they decide what packages to support and include in their distributionIMHO, it is quite fair.Daniele 2003-01-10 9:04 pm Arghh.the url you posted (for the iso download) doesn’t seem to work…can i get it anywhere else?thnxz 2003-01-10 9:08 pm forget it…i got it here in case anyone else wants it..http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/pub/linux/Mandrake-iso/i586/MandrakeLinux-9…. 2003-01-10 9:12 pm For the sake of merging the two desktop into one look and feel, they have crippled both gnome and kdeIn redhat 8.0right click on the menu doesn’t workhacking the nautilus doesn’t work 2003-01-10 10:25 pm I have to disagree with those of you saying this is too fast. It is a beta. It isn’t intended for anyone except enthusiasts and those who enjoy testing. I am an enthusiast. I keep a partition around just to install new things on and try them. That is fun for me, and helpful to distro makers when I report bugs. Look at Redhat 8.1. It isn’t supposed to be released until April. I would imagine the same will go for Mandrake 9.1. So, if you like to test beta os’s. Then do. I think it is good for the community if people test and report bugs. But if you don’t, then it isn’t for you, and you shouldn’t worry about it or criticize. The fast progress of linux distros is what allows to keep moving towards the ultimate goal of becoming “mainstream.” 2003-01-10 10:30 pm Your argument about waiting for Linux to become stable, doesn’t hold water. If you want a slower developing distro there is always Debian. It has an easy to use patch update and it should work fine for you. OR you can go with a Redhat, Mandrake, SuSe, etc. You don’t necessarily have to update whenever a new one is released. And if it is a beta you are encouraged NOT to upgrade. Last but not least, you don’t have to reformat to update from one version to another (in most distros). Just download the iso and boot to the cd. All that I have seen support an upgrade option. I can’t vouch for how well it works, but it is there if you want it. 2003-01-10 10:35 pm The structure of the menu can be changed by editing/etc/X11/desktop-menus/start-here.menuyou can redefine how the menu look… pretty coolyou move the apps around the menuthis can be found in /usr/share/applicationsvi someappname.desktopmove down to Categories=;applications;network;X-Red-Hat-Base;X-Red-Hat-Base-Onlychange this to ;applications;accessories;X….Now my setup looks just like windows where all the appsare in the program folderThanks for all your help 2003-01-10 10:37 pm I think a major reason for the quick new betas is to show off the power and grace of kde3.1. I tried the alpha of kde3.1 back last fall and was blown away. I couldn’t wait for a major distribution to incorporate kde3.1. Kde3.1 makes linux powerful for the GUI user, and has many great additions ie tabbed browsing, remote desktop sharing, things like this.Kde3.1 just brings a whole bunch more usability to Linux, and is cool! 2003-01-10 10:51 pm Very impressiveI like the idea of konstruct tooI think kde is light years ahead of gnome 2003-01-10 11:25 pm one thing idont enjoy about upgrading is the need to waste 2-3 cd-rs just for some updated packages. im new to linux, so i may not the whole story completely. is there a way to install mandrake 9.1 or redhat 8 from the hard drive instead of bootable cds? 2003-01-10 11:37 pm one thing idont enjoy about upgrading is the need to waste 2-3 cd-rs just for some updated packages.1. CDRs are around $0.20 cents each, meaning around $0.60 for a full OS downloaded–not bad at all I think.2. Another idea: CDRW 😉3. If you are just looking to upgrade some specific packages, then you can always just download the appropriate rpms and install through URPMI (after adding the right sources).is there a way to install mandrake 9.1 or redhat 8 from the hard drive instead of bootable cds?Mandrake can be installed from FTP/network shares or a harddrive. For the harddisk install, just write the appropriate boot image file to a floppy and follow the instructions. 2003-01-11 12:10 am This is just the first beta of 9.1, and it comes more than 5 months after the first beta of Mandrake 9.0 (Eugenia, please correct me if I am wrong).It looks as though it will be a great distribution. Unfortunately 9.0 fell somewhat short of my expectations, but KDE 3.1 + kernel 2.4.21 + the many improvements and fixes that Mandrake has made in the last few months will surely add up to a much better product than 9.0.I think this is the right time for a first beta and I also think that Mandrake is doing the right thing by asking people what they want in terms of packages.I am going to try it as soon as they release a more complete version on three CDs. 2003-01-11 12:21 am Um I do not understand the ‘complain syndrome’ here. Its going to be at LEAST 2-3 months before a final 9.1 is even approached. Look at it in the light.. a new .1 version every 6-8 months. Thats pretty typical. I do not see a reason to have to buy mandrake or another distro unless you desire to be a member. Nearly everything available that u need in the commerical version can be downloaded and compiled unless you are a business and need the support. If you do not know how to do this yet, maybe you need to mess with linux =). 2003-01-11 8:02 am it has unfortunately become extreme bloatware and not worth installingDon’t you see what they’re doing, they’re trying to get rid of the bloat. Put everything good on the first CD, and leave what is usually considered bloat available, but not up front.Sizing the distro down to one CD will fix alot of the problems to do with unnecessary bloat.They still have that annoying “What to do?”You would be surprised how well this works. I got my sister (Never used Linux, just windows) on a mandrake 9.0 computer, and that was what she used to get around. If you don’t know the name of the application you need, the what to do menu is a good alternative. 2003-01-11 11:32 am i installed the beta yesterday and here is some info1) don’t install this if you don’t like testing and bugreporting. It’s not complete, lot of stuff don’t work yet, icons are missing and so on2) the GOOD, it’s fast, much faster then any i tried before (yoper come close). Only tried KDE. This gives me hope for Linux on the desktop and look forward to the distros to come in 2003. 2003-01-12 1:26 pm I bought mandrake 8.2 powerpack, and very shortly afterwards it was out of date as Mandrake 9.0 came out… I bought that powerpack as soon as it was available, which was a significant amount of time after the download edition was available. There isn’t a lot of “value” in actually buying it, the only reason I did was to support Mandrake.Now I’m looking at upgrading to either RH8, MDK9 or DEB3(and apt-get updates from unstable)…Why? Well Mandrake 8.2 is solid and does what I want for the moment, but I want the individual apps upgraded. I want KDE 3.1 and all the new apps that come with that, but I don’t want to re-install the whole OS just for that. Mandrake 9 is binary incompatible with 8.2, and so I can’t just install Mandrake 9 RPMS, and nobody makes 8.2 RPMS anymore, so if I want new apps, I have to compile em myself.What I would like to see is the base distro keep binary compatibility for at least 18 months, then I would like to see individual app upgrades and patches backported for maybe the next year or two. That way I can keep the OS installed for like 2 years, but still enjoy all the new apps…Oh and all distros should keep binary compatibility during this period also. ie the LSB should be specific enough that anything conforming to say LSB 2.x would be binary compatible. That way you can download rpms for say “LSB version 2 or greater” and not even think about the distro…. 2003-01-12 5:38 pm hi eugenia are u getting all excided about the up and coming9.1 ? 2003-01-13 3:39 am tried it on my laptop, it has some radeon chip, had to pick xfree without 3d acceleration otherwise the screen was mangled(even though the test was fine…Sofar it works… only the default fonts look awful.Somehow windows just looks cleaner. 2003-01-14 3:15 am So many of you complaining about frequent releases, get over it; things progress whether you like it or not. I’m certain that the sun will still rise tomorrow if you don’t upgrade. Go find a real cause, surely your lives aren’t so empty that you can’t find something else to complain about.