“Michael Robertson has a software glitch in his belfry. He’s a crazy man. Certifiable. And God bless him for it. Maybe he’ll finally give the technology industry some spine when it comes to going up against Microsoft. That, or he is tech’s Chuck “The Bayonne Bleeder” Wepner, about to get turned into goulash by the Muhammad Ali of software. Either way, this bout should be entertaining.” Read the article at USA Today, by Kevin Maney.
Maker of Lindows Laughs at Face of Danger (and Microsoft)
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Robertson brings a new twist. Lindows runs on Linux, but looks and acts like Windows and seems to run most Windows applications just fine.
Okay, that’s a boldfaced lie. That’s about as bad as the “Lindows developed StarOffice” in another recent Lindows article.
“Out of the box you get a working desktop that is similar to Windows,” attests Patrick, who bought a Lindows machine to try out. “It isn’t quite as simple as Windows in some respects, but on the other hand I have never had to reboot it — something I have to do at least once a day with (Windows) XP.”
The only time I’m forced to reboot Windows XP is when installing patches, which come out once every few weeks. It certainly isn’t “once a day”
I mean honestly, the amount of blatent lies that seem to crop up around Lindows is increasing at a staggering rate…
As I said in the past too, WinXP PRO is extremely stable in the 1 year I am using it. Win9x, I agree, I had to reboot every 2-3 days as it was crashing/freezing/losing functionality, but XP is freaking stable.
But that wasn’t a lie made by Lindows, that was an error on the part of the gentleman who wrote the article. Don’t blame Lindows for that comment as they make no such claim.
Kreek
Lindows Insider
Just to make sure Microsoft hates him, Robertson also put up a $200,000 reward for anyone who hacks into the code inside Microsoft’s Xbox. (No one has yet succeeded.)
Umm? I thought, it’s already successed? But, still need to do some more task?
Requires special BIOS to run Linux on XBox. It seems that Robertson wants Linux running normally on people’s XBOXes.
There were actually two $100,000 rewards.
The first was for anyone who got Linux running on an X-box using modifications. That one was achieved.
The secont was for anyone who got Linux running on an unmodded X-box. That one is still up for grabs.
Kreek
Lindows Insider
Ok, thanks! Kreek, you are working for Lindows company? It’s insteresting, we have the same ISP (ks.ok.cox.net). 😉
No I don’t work for Lindows. I’m a member of there Insiders program which means I get access to all of there software before the public does. I also am privy to “inside” information long before the general public. It’s pretty cool actually.
While there are a bunch of idiot reporters out there saying ridiculous things (the Lindows.com developing star office is probably the one least rooted in truth) you can’t really blame the reporter for his friend claiming to have to reboot Windows XP often. I mean, think about, XP is stable for me. It is stable for you. But I work in tech-support and I have seen people do awful things to computers that no operating system should be expected to survive. As compu-tarded as these guys are I am sure they inflict massive harm on a file system on an os in no time flat. I mean, anyone crash an os if they try real hard.
I hate this Lindows, every time they lie about something they destroy the credibility of Linux.
He is just as vocal and capitalist as Linux’s opponent, namely, Microsoft, but to a lesser degree all proprietary commercial software. Yet he is on our side, assuming the reader is one of those freaky Linux Zealots we keep hearing about. Now I don’t have to stress the importance or value of Linux. With companies like this we’ll soon gain enough momentum in the snowball o free software to smother all competition, everywhere. Then what will they do? Cry to moma cuz they can’t hide their source code?
I know it won’t end up quite like that, but I can always dream.
// I’m a member of there Insiders program which means I get access to all of there software before the public does. I also am privy to “inside” information long before the general public. //
And, it’s free, I’m sure.
Or is it?
I hate this Lindows, every time they lie about something they destroy the credibility of Linux.
What lies are you talking about? Lindows didn’t tell any lies here.
Kreek
Lindows Insider
i’ve come full circle on the whole lindows thing. now i find it’s great to have the mad dog attacking microsoft, coming up with cheap ways to get computers out to people
as mad dog robertson has picked “lindows” as the name of his offering, i don’t think it will get too confused with “linux”
and because lindows is so out there and because mad dog barks so much, it makes the whacked out elements of the linux crowd seem almost sane
i can only hope lindows is very very successful. anything to break microsoft’s iron grip on personal computing. let’s hope mad dog lands a nasty bite on m$ft.
// I’m a member of there Insiders program which means I get access to all of there software before the public does. I also am privy to “inside” information long before the general public. //
And, it’s free, I’m sure.
Or is it?
That really chaps my ass that people think that anything to do with Linux should be free. Well Lindows is providing value to the Linux world and my wife and I think it’s worth every penny. Micro$oft will never get a single nickel from me. And XP is the biggest piece of crap spyware ever released!
(sorry, did I just say that out loud?)
Kreek
Lindows Insider
I’ve only started to get interested in Lindows recently, and only then on it’s “Hi Microsoft!!!” attitude. I love unices for server like things, and am quite enamoured with FreeBSD for fun, as well as BeOS for great fun. I run XP pro, Gentoo and FreeBSD at home (XP because of games and A/V stuff, the rest for interest). I own a Zaurus, which is both fun and useful. I’m not in either zealot camp, as I think zealotry is silly.
However I should think that anyone, zealots included should be able to agree that the man(Mr. Robertson) has a point. Competition is a good thing for the market. Anyone that will actually try to compete with Microsoft is okay in my book.
Whether the man is goofy or not, Lindows has been able to do what other alternative operating systems haven’t.
They’ve worked out a deal to have Lindows pre-installed at a major retailer. That’s a biggie – most computer users are going to use the OS that comes with the machine. Dell had Linux pre-installed on some machines a while back, but I don’t think they do anymore. Imagine if BeOS had been pre-installed on computers at CircuitCity!
Publicity is rarely bad. Robertson’s strong personality, Microsoft lawsuits, newspaper articles, etc. It’s all good for Lindows!
-Bob
You know. Really. I’m using Linux exclusively, too, and all
that. But I am not (different from many people, including the
person who had posted before me) expecting everything to be
free. That’s just not how people can live together. There need
to be rules and -like it or not- money is the rule of our
society. Actually I think you should better find one way or
another to at least not hate it. Rudolf Steiner, if I remember
the name correctly (the Waldorf school concept popular in
Germany is his invention) once said something along the lines
of “learn the system, how it functions and how you can live in
it just like everyone else does. That way you will be able to
discover its weaknesses and use them”. That’s a much more
sensible (and powerful!) approach than to just mutter and
bitch at everything. Now look at Robertson.
Please, this is all anecdotal – I have no doubt whatsoever that XP is stable for you – but it all depends doesn’t it? For example, one of my computers is an original Win98 machine purchased back in 98 (Micron Millenia PII 450) works just fine, though I don’t use it very often these days… does this mean the original Win98 (not SE) was a very stable system? Nope. It just means that I was careful about what and how I installed on it (and I DID install a ton of stuff in its day), it means my hardware was good quality (all still original components except for adding some RAM and a network card). And it means I got lucky.
How do you judge the stability of an OS? It seems pretty difficult because you have to somehow discount the role of hardware, third party software and even MSFT apps which can lead to problems – so to get a “pure” O/S is not easy. Be that as it may, there are crashes which can be directly laid at the feet of the OS design, and XP is certainly not free of those. Is it the most stable desktop out there today? Perhaps. But YMMV.
My previous post was meant for a different thread. Appologies.
You know, I’m tired of that too.
There *is* an element of the linux community that wants everything for free. They’re a very loud, and very active element, but I don’t think they represent the majority in any way.
A lot of people use the “linux users want everything for free” as their reasoning to not develop linux products. People point to the downfall of Loki, ignoring their bad business practices and the fact that they ported games long after they had been available for windows based platforms.
Honestly, I don’t think people have any objections to paying for *quality* linux software. What’s irritating is when people turn out half-assed linux products (Corel Office, hiya) and blame lack of sales on user’s unwillingness to pay for the products.
>>>>They’ve worked out a deal to have Lindows pre-installed at a major retailer.
It’s not such a big thing. Doesn’t matter how many computers these retailers sell — they pay Lindows a flat rate of $500 a month. So this whole thing about Walmart selling Lindows — amounts to $6,000 a year in revenue.
Lindows is the AOL of Linux distros and Michael Robertson is the sleazy used car salesman of the open-source world.
All their publicity stunts and misleading statements make the whole Linux community look bad.
Besides, their product adds NO value to a basic Debian+KDE distro yet comes with a proprietary Onerous Eula.
The real revenue is of course expected from the buyers
who subscribe to the Click-N-Run warehouse.
Jim in Az
Besides, their product adds NO value to a basic Debian+KDE distro
Except that just about anyone can install it easily. If someone can’t install it, there is no value…
>>As I said in the past too, WinXP PRO is extremely stable in the 1 year I am using it. … XP is freaking stable.
<<
I can’t and won’t dispute this, I have no reason to doubt your experience. I am sure you are reporting what you and others truly experienced.
Xp has NOT worked well for me. It is too slow on my laptop (I already did too many reinstalls). It is also slow on my office machine, where it freezes at least twice a day (yes, we have linux installed, but the accouting app is written in vb, damnit!). After months of agony and changing machines, I have recently reverted to win2000 on that machine.
What I really like about Xp is the clean and polished look. Also, Evolution and mozilla mail do not function nearly as smoothly as their MS counterparts. Other than that, Redhat 8 is preferable by me.
“It isn’t quite as simple as Windows in some respects, but on the other hand I have never had to reboot it — something I have to do at least once a day with (Windows) XP.”
When I first heard about Lindows I was excited, then when I found out who ran it I got less excited, then I used it and I was very dissapointed. Lindows to put it mildly sucks. $99.00 is ridiculous price to pay for free software, and to download anything from click and run you need to have a broadband connection otherwise you will be a day without your computer. Robertson never even thought about offering an applications CD, I dont know if he does now or not. No compilers no nothing, just a stripped down version of KDE. I know its supposed to be a non-geek friendly distro, but the thing is that not everyone has broadband, the majority of users are still using dial-up. He didnt do enough research into the market that he was targeting. He could do like Xandros did, which was to include the utilities and programs users are realistically expected to use ie. Gimp, Open Office, Evolution and ALL of the default KDE applications. Until he does something like that I will never reconsider Lindows, I will stick with SuSE Linux 8.1
Sorry Kreek, I dont care how much value it gives to your wife or to you, if it came between Lindows and Windows XP as the only two choices I had, Id go Microsoft, without thinking twice. Robertson is a moron and an idiot, and your beloved Lindows is like bell-bottom pants, give it a few months or years and your little fad will be over. But of course then you and your wife would either go to the Mac or make a smarter choice and use Xandros or SuSE, either or, Lindows is not the ” value ” that you make it out to be, Robertson is a laughing stock of the Linux community, he has no respect from anyone. He has lied to much, tried to start too much Rabble rousing and now when and if he does do something amazingly good only the idiots are impressed. We nerds now know if we hear something about Lindows, we wait for someone to confirm the story first.
“It’s not such a big thing. Doesn’t matter how many computers these retailers sell — they pay Lindows a flat rate of $500 a month. So this whole thing about Walmart selling Lindows — amounts to $6,000 a year in revenue.”
No that is only the revenue Lindows generates by selling the license to OEMs to load the software on a system.
Next the OEM PC manufacturer sells the PC to a retail outfit (like WalMart) and makes a profit. Then the retailer sell the PC to a consumer and makes a profit. Then, quite possibly, the consumer joins the CnR Warehouse yearly and Lindows makes an ongoing profit. Far more than the $6000 you claim is profit.
Hope thats not too hard for you to understand.
It doesnt matter how much volume Walmart sells and I doubt he makes a lot of money on C-N-R, You want to know how those PCs are used, Listen carefully cuz this is what I do. I buy the cheap hardware, then I buy more RAM, and I buy either a NIC or a Modem. then I install a copy of Windows 98 or Windows 2000 or another various distro of Linux, and I use it either as a Gaming PC for my neice or nephew or I use it as a workstation at the job. so I got a brand new PC for 199.00 because I have a surplus on parts I generally dont have to buy the other stuff, and its a good box, I dont have to put up with a cheap, cut up and thieving wannabe Windows operating system known as Lindows. Now I wonder who else does that.
“It’s not such a big thing. Doesn’t matter how many computers these retailers sell — they pay Lindows a flat rate of $500 a month. So this whole thing about Walmart selling Lindows — amounts to $6,000 a year in revenue.”
No that is only the revenue Lindows generates by selling the license to OEMs to load the software on a system.
Next the OEM PC manufacturer sells the PC to a retail outfit (like WalMart) and makes a profit. Then the retailer sell the PC to a consumer and makes a profit. Then, quite possibly, the consumer joins the CnR Warehouse yearly and Lindows makes an ongoing profit. Far more than the $6000 you claim is profit.
Hope thats not too hard for you to understand. “
“So this whole thing about Walmart selling Lindows — amounts to $6,000 a year in revenue.”
Yeah, it is a pretty low number when you only look at it that way. But it’s all about exposure and building a user base. I bet Gates would give away OSes if he could lock in suckers to paying $99 for Windows freeware.
The next big hurdle will be to get Lindows into WalMart stores, not just at WalMart.com.
Best Wishes,
Bob
>>>>Next the OEM PC manufacturer sells the PC to a retail outfit (like WalMart) and makes a profit.
Except that many industry people are saying that MicroTel is losing money on these computers —- everybody knows the costs of component parts.
The only people that makes money on this is Walmart. MicroTel HAS to pay Walmart some money in order to be listed on their website — it’s exactly like what happens in supermarkets.
So Lindows loses money on it and doing it for publicity. MicroTel loses money on it and doing it for publicity (because they sell Windows machines also).
>>>But it’s all about exposure and building a user base.
Except that every exposure has been a negative one.
(1) massive boycott of lindow’s desktop linux conference
(2) AOL warning lindows not to advertise themselves as partnering with Netscape
(3) Lindows Insiders possibly violating GPL (since fixed)
(4) Source codes were slow to be open
(5) linux users know how to get those apps without paying $99.
Me too –>
http://www.phatvibez.net/commentary.php?ID=lindows
it’s all about public perception…and Lindows bits us in the ass everytime
Roberto, Lindows does have a CD now for dial-up people.
Send several small, unmarked bills…
Michael.
“and because lindows is so out there and because mad dog barks so much, it makes the whacked out elements of the linux crowd seem almost sane”
That is just a faux characterization to hang the article on. It is a journalistic device. Robertson isn’t whacked out nor is he perceived that way. His antics are typical of many entrepeneurs.So they are not going to make whacked out Linux elements look relatively sane.
re:Marcus
“Except that just about anyone can install it easily. If someone can’t install it, there is no value…”
These days almost any Linux Distro is easy to install,
including Debian. Especially if it comes via Xandros,Libranet or Knoppix.
re: jim_az
“The real revenue is of course expected from the buyers
who subscribe to the Click-N-Run warehouse.”
Which does basically what Apt-get or Synaptic do for me
for free. Some bargin.
Quote “. And XP is the biggest piece of crap spyware ever released! ” Unquote
Now i know why you are a Lindows insider, you really have no idea about the OS world seen your comment!
A simple comment:
Each person has their individual experience with Windows XP.
Request:
Please stop saying “windows xp runs as stable as…” or “windows xp crashes X amounts of time per Y time frame”.
I use NT4 at work and it doesn’t crash for me! (only MY experience, i am sure everyone has theirs esp as the person next to does need to reboot the system!) i see people use XP and it’s fine, i’ve seen linux/freebsd/windows xp all die and crash out at the worst possible moment.
Let Lindows show it’s value in the amount of sales they make and (notice that this is an AND statement not OR) satisfaction that people recieve in using the system (what ever purpose they Lindows for).
My 2 cents.
Sorry Kreek, I dont care how much value it gives to your wife or to you, if it came between Lindows and Windows XP as the only two choices I had, Id go Microsoft, without thinking twice. Robertson is a moron and an idiot, and your beloved Lindows is like bell-bottom pants, give it a few months or years and your little fad will be over. But of course then you and your wife would either go to the Mac or make a smarter choice and use Xandros or SuSE, either or, Lindows is not the ” value ” that you make it out to be, Robertson is a laughing stock of the Linux community, he has no respect from anyone. He has lied to much, tried to start too much Rabble rousing and now when and if he does do something amazingly good only the idiots are impressed. We nerds now know if we hear something about Lindows, we wait for someone to confirm the story first.
I have used several version of SuSE from 7.0 to 8.1. Very nice distro’s but there is no way someone like my wife could use them. (unless I was always fixing things for her) I also own and use Xandros but it’s not as easy to use as Lindows. I have been using Linux as my only OS for three years now so I’m not an idiot when it comes to Linux. However, my wife is a newbie in every sense of the word! Lindows is the first and only Linux OS that she can use on a daily basis without any help from me. SHE EVEN INSTALLED IT HERSELF!!! Our house is completely M$ free and proud of it! With CNR she can install and uninstall apps all day long without a single problem. She couldn’t have done that with windoze. And she CERTAINLY couldn’t have done that with SuSE! If you don’t think Lindows is worth the money than guess what, it’s probably not for you. But my wife and I think it is and that’s what it’s all about. Choice! We choose to use Lindows instead of windoze and we choose to use a user friendly OS instead of your typical Linux OS. There is no way that I’m going to change your mind about Lindows and I realize that. But you also gotta realize that there is no way you are gonna change my mind or my wife’s and Lindows is not going anywhere! We are growing everyday whether you like it or not! I hope I didn’t come across as too prickish in any of my posts, I certainly never intended to.
Kreek
Lindows Insider
Now i know why you are a Lindows insider, you really have no idea about the OS world seen your comment!
It was a JOKE, and don’t pretend to know anything about me based on it.
Kreek
Lindows Insider
Problem I see is Lindows is trying to turn Open Source programs and free programs into proprietary software. You can do that with a BSD license, but Linux, if altered, must be rereleased to the development community or have your license to use linux or other oss codes revoked by the originating developer. That’s part of the reason why Apple chose a BSD code for the basis of OS X.
The problem with people like Eugenia is that they absolutely fail to understand that there’s more to an operating system than its technical merits. If that was all there is to it, we might as well all run MacOSX, as that’s a stable, fairly usable OS. But aside from the issue of technical robustness, there’s the much larger issue of control that is placed in the hands of the operating system manufacturer. Be it under the name of “trusted computing” or “digital rights management”, or under labels such as “innovation” and “convenience”, the leading OS manufacturer can control which applications are allowed to run and which media files are allowed to play, and by bundling certain applications, can seize total control over certain market segments.
It is therefore hopelessly naive to toot Microsoft’s horn and publicly proclaim what a graet and stable operating system Windows XP is. It is only the skript kiddies who would believe that a company as large as Microsoft would not be able to come up with an OS that is reasonably stable — and of course supports all modern hardware, it is, after all, the monopoly OS. Windows 9x was an abomination, but Microsoft didn’t care as long as consumers bought it. With added competition from MacOSX and Linux, they were ultimately forced to unify the product lines (NT/9x), as they had already planned long ago. They wouldn’t have done this, obviously, without outside pressure. Microsoft does not care one iota about aspects like stability, they care exclusively about profitability, just like any corporation.
And that is the true promise of open source / free software: To offer a working environment that is unrestrained by corporate thinking, one which is developed by the people who use it. An environment that is absolutely free, without the possibility of monopoly control over media and programs. If you want this, you’ll have to tolerate inconveniences — lack of standardization, second grade support for new hardware (the monopoly player always has the advantage here) and so on. To expect that Linux or other free OS will be able to offer superior technical quality to Microsoft in every respect is blatantly ridiculous, because of the monopoly position of MS alone (Linux fails in many of the same areas where BeOS failed).
Any comparison between Linux and Windows or MacOSX which fails to take this crucial difference into account is a flawed comparison. “Oh, but Microsoft Windows XP is also a stable OS. It has run here for weeks without crashing.” Oh yes .. Let’s forget about Palladium, Passport, Messenger, DOC formats and all the other monopoly crap Microsoft is doing. Not.
Of course, Lindows is also a company, and efforts to stylize it as some kind of savior are misguided. However, regardless of what Lindows does, they cannot undermine the freedom which GPL and BSD-style licensed software offers. This is a freedom that cannot be taken away, and that is what really counts. From an informed perspective, proprietary software is simply not an acceptable choice. It always comes at a price — literally and figuratively.
Somebody quick, e-mail Linux and tell him to do a License termination on Michael Robertson and Lindows.com, doesnt really matter, Robertson is like a cancer. Just when you think you got rid of him, he comes bouncing back, and Kreek if you knew the guy, you wouldnt want to do business with the man.
Somebody quick, e-mail Linux and tell him to do a License termination on Michael Robertson and Lindows.com, doesnt really matter, Robertson is like a cancer. Just when you think you got rid of him, he comes bouncing back, and Kreek if you knew the guy, you wouldnt want to do business with the man.
I like the product. I don’t know that much about Michael Robertson except he’s not Bill Gates which in my book is a good thing. If Michael Robertson starts price gouging me, forcing me to upgrade to an even more bug-riddled OS, or in any other way takes away my choices as a consumer, I will take my money and go elsewhere. Till then, I’m very happy with the OS and the advances its made.
Kreek
Lindows Insider
Kreek, have you tried Lycoris? I’d like to hear how you think it compares to Lindows. After Windows, and after her Mac upstairs, my wife uses Lycoris the most.
-Bob
I am not sure why people are complaining about GPL violations still, the source is incredible easy to get. Simply find a Click-n-Run product you want (like http://www.lindows.com/gimp). Click on specifications, and download the source…
I like Lycoris, but I don’t think it’s as polished as Lindows or as easy to use. My wife basically said she would NOT use Lycoris. Lindows was easy enough for her to ditch windoZe. I still frequent the lycoris.org forum and I am a Lycoris beta tester but I don’t use it on my main PC. It would be hard for me to ever give up CNR now. But I still enjoying playing with just about any distro I can get my hands on.
Kreek
Lindows Insider
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HOHOHOHO HO BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Man you dont know a thing about Linux if you mix Lindows and advancements in the same sentence, he is marketing what Corel tried to market years ago, yes even tho he got his little distro onto cheap PCs doesnt make him a god, Corel failed, Lindows will fail and Lindows will fail not because of its quality or what it does or doesnt bring to the community it will fail because of Michael Robertson. His crap he tries to pull and all the negative attention he brings to himself. And yes if I was Linus I would do a termination of License before he does harm to the reputation of the actual Linux developers that are trying to do something great, He is doing the same thing he did with MP3.com piggybacking other peoples hard work and doing everything and anything he can do to start controversy and get his name in the paper. He has alot to learn before he can be a big shot. Yes I know him, and no I do not like him. Yes he is trying to be Bill Gates, tell you what I have more respect for Bill then i ever will for Michael. At least Bill can code and yes he can come up with some original ideas. I wonder tho when Michael will give himself the title of Chief Software Architect