A sizeable group of developers from the two leading free software projects developing desktops based on the X Window System, KDE and GNOME, have been discussing the current situation among themselves and decided to draft and release the linked document. Read the 5 points raised by both Gnome and KDE members. Update: X.org comes into the picture, but not everyone is as optimistic.
GNOME, KDE Developer Statement Regarding XFree86 Status
2003-03-24 X11 75 Comments
Having two XFree86’s will only make things worse…
We really need one X. One standard.
I also like X’s conversative posture. I never had any X related problems, it always worked great for me.
Excuse me but doesn’t the situation look a bit differently ?
On http://www.gnomedesktop.org/ we read:
“Gnome and KDE viewpoint on the future of the X Window System”
On http://dot.kde.org/ we read:
“XFree86 and KDE”
No single word is being lost on http://dot.kde.org/ about GNOME and KDE and shared viewpoint or something that gives me ‘the reader’ the impression that both teams agree to work together once again. All the times when I read news on http://www.gnomesupport.org/ regarding GNOME and KDE I always get the impression that they agreed to cooperate but the sober reality shows that in most cases this is not really true. I think most of the writings on the GNOME related pages are more or less PR to push and make their Desktop look better in the public.
Xfree86 really needs some refreshing.
Yes, it is that way. The people who signed that statement are people from both KDE and Gnome and they were discussing behind the scenes for the past few days it seems.
I wonder why this statement didn’t appeared on http://dot.kde.org/ then. They wrote a complete different statement pointing the same topics but still differently. I can’t value such a statement because it only appears on one page and not on the other.
It would really help your understanding if you actually read the pages you link to.
Yes, the message mentioned here is a shared message from (some) KDE and GNOME developers.
The dot.kde.org article is just a general thing about the X situation, and XFree86 4.3 features, it has no mention whatsoever of this message.
So, of course it says nothing about GNOME!
I suppose Navindra will get around to posting an article about this soon.
Oh ok I just saw that someone updated http://dot.kde.org/ some mins ago and also pointing to the writing to Xfree ML. Therefore I take my statement back.
Exactly, thanks Roberto.
Also, the Dot is very scarcely get updated lately…
I wonder why this statement didn’t appeared on http://dot.kde.org/ then. They wrote a complete different statement pointing the same topics but still differently. I can’t value such a statement because it only appears on one page and not on the other.
a) The article you linked to was not a statement, it was just a bunch of links about XFree86’s current status.
b) Now you can see an update there, linking to this very message
c) You are very very very dense.
The dot has never been a high-volume site, I think that’s intentional.
This was a measured, reasonable response to the current situation. It will be interesting to see how the Xfree86 folks respond in kind.
c) You are very very very dense.
1. No bad mouthing or cursing.
2. No attacks to other users or news editors of this web site.
3. Whatever you got to say, say it in a calm way, and explain your reasoning as an adult, and not as a 10-year old kid.
I expect your reply to get modded down as written in the terms of rules. I only expressed my very personal opinion. If you have a different one then OK but you people should use your head before calling people dense or insulting in general.
oGalaxy, he didn’t attack you, I don’t think so at least. He just said that you appear a bit “stretched” in your replies (or I got the word ‘dense’ wrong? :o).
Please everyone, calm down. Dot’s article is not about that particular statement that we link here today.
And please retain the proper headers in your replies instead of the name of the person you reply.
Well my appologizes, I only expressed my opinion, nothing more nothing less and I already stated that dot.kde.org already updated their pages, but these updates happened AFTER I replied here. I can’t take my previous writings back unless someone deletes them
IMO KDE and Gnome developers should start working with X on far closer, dictate some of the innovation they both enlist by actually providing it to the project themselves. Xfree is a free implementation of X11. This doesn’t seem adequete to either project, and I fully understand that. I don’t agree with publically basically saying Xfree isn’t good enough however. We all know Xfree lags behind other GUI frameworks. This is no secret. Why not change it themselves though if they want to see that change?
I would love to see a vastly improved Xfree, but I also know that its an entirely free project and as such is only really a hobbiest project.
I would love to see key members of KDE and Gnome taking part in this project though. If they can work together in private, they should be able to work together to add features to the REAL Xfree without needing to develope there own version etc.
I see this as the best option, work together WITHIN the Xfree project to help BOTH desktops, then compete for the best use of the features… It doesn’t devide the Xfree project, and it provides what will hopefuly be a better desktop for EVERYONE alike!
Well I would like to see that the key members of GNOME start making their ‘hack called’ Desktop usable in first case before starting to crapify other projects such as XFree86.
The KDE people I value to be capable to deal with such a complex project as XFree86 but not the GNOME people. They should first start with a fileselector on their own project before trashing other projects.
if the fork leaves the interfaces alone and just changes the implimentation then there should be no problem at all.
You seem to be quite the antagonist; do you offer anything constructive or just endless complaints and sharp words?
I use Gnome, but I don’t bash KDE. They are at different levels of maturity; but neither is a ‘hack’ and both do the OSS community a world of good.
If you don’t like Gnome… ignore it… but don’t jump in forums to insight flame-wars. I come here to read news and intelligent comments… I don’t appreciate having to sort through a plethora of childish rants, misplaced complaints, and sharp words.
X is the root of all evil.
Thank you for your reply and I do respect your opinion. I was offering constructive feedback to GNOME for various years now that’s why I use sharp words because I know what’s going on.
Well I do like GNOME, I don’t like what happened with it and ignoring it is impossible these days specially in situations like this where the incapable GNOME developers (specially one here) stick their nose into everything and anything.
I do care for GNOME and I also do care for Xfree86 that’s why I complain. I as everyone else see the needs of Xfree86 to change no doubt. But I complain that this task can’t be done by the GNOME people. On what do I build up my complaining you may ask now. Now look what happened with GNOME 1.x towards 2.x what kind of unusable mess it went, less configurability, retarded GConf, button reordering, lousy inconsistent tools and a whole stagnating Desktop itself. I do complain because I don’t want the same people who are responsible for the current GNOME mess to mess up XFree86. That XFree86 needs a change is in no doubt right but not by these people.
I hope I made my exact point now. I don’t care if you think this sounds like a flame or troll, I made my point and stand behind it and I bet there are many others agreing with me. I don’t want to use an Xfree86 system in 2-3 years that is full of forced in GNOME stuff such like GConf and WMhints from freedesktop.org that breaks all the apps because it’s decided by a handful of people.
I would love to see freedesktop.org become the leading authority on future X enhancements. They could pick up where X11 has decided to drop off…
A clean API that XFree86, Fresco, PicoGUI, etc… could implement; at last a real choice to XFree86 could exist. OSS is all about choice yet there are no real alternatives to XFree86 yet.
The XFree86 fiasco has really made me look into what else is out there. Fresco shows much potential but is still perhaps years away. PicoGUI is another project that is quite intriguing; from a text-based display all the way to a robust, modern GUI with bindings for Python already.
Off-Topic w/ Mono, SWT, and Fresco/PicoGUI
I would love to see the Mono project port SWT to these projects… that I would think would help people migrate to these alternatives (at least for testing purposes and experimentation). Once SharpDevelop is finished being ported to SWT it would be able to run in either environment… comments?
Ladies and gentlemen. OSnews has the honor and privilege to present to you: oGALAXYo!!!! The world’s foremost troll on desktop issues. No matter what the subject matter at hand; as long as it’s remotely related to the desktop, you can rely on oGALAXYo to be there to spread his usual brand of FUD and lies about the GNOME desktop and its developers.
Don’t be fooled by cheap imitations, get the real oGALAXYo right here at OSnews, oGALAXYo’s preferred hangout in cyber space. Beware that oGALAXYo frequently posts under various aliases, but you can easily identify a true oGALAXYo post by the following tell tale signs:
– GConf is being described as an evil windows registry
– complaints about button order
– Havoc Pennington is elitist
– Martin Baulig is thrown out
– desire to measure code quality and productiveness by number of CVS commits
– paranoia about “companies” taking over GNOME
– bad spelling and grammar
– more than half of the sentences start without a capital
You can read more on this at http://www.gnomedesktop.org/article.php?thold=-1&mode=flat&order=0&…
Thanks to his versatility as a master troll, oGALAXYo has recently increased his repertoir of trolling to include the following:
– GNOME is several years behind KDE and will never catch up, so the GNOME developers should just call it quits
– GNOME isn’t even a proper desktop environment because it doesn’t include feature X and Y (X and Y varies from time to time)
– Any technology used in GNOME is tainted and shouldn’t be used by any other project. Ever.
– KDE can do no wrong
– No one is ever qualified to argue with oGALAXYo because they are not 1337 h4x0rz or they don’t “see the big picture”
Since oGALAXYo went pro with the trolling, he has unlimited time on his hands, and is able to troll continuously for days on end. Just follow this site for more of his zany antics.
Watch for instance as oGALAXYo manages to break rule no.6 of the user terms (“no stupid zealot OS wars”) on a daily basis but to the amazement of everyone, he still doesn’t get banned.
Yes, but as long as no authority or organisation confirmed and verified these ‘standards’ as long they shouldn’t be named standards. Look here even the creator of that page wrote this
freedesktop.org itself does not “legislate” or approve standards, this web site and our CVS server and mailing list are purely intended as a place for developers to meet and work together.
Thank you for taking the time to clarify and give some background.
I hear you loud and clear; but I don’t neccesarily think GNOME developers are bad or incompetent. I realize GNOME has went from featureful to almost featureless with 2.0, but it is developing quite nicely now as they move to 2.4. I think in the next couple years as it moves to the 3.x phase that 2.x will be looked back upon as the ugly years where a lot of growing pains occurred before it emerged as a masterpiece.
I agree whole-heartedly that GConf is an ugly solution (even Windows has taken steps away from its registry mess). I for one do not want to have to sift through a mess of gconf files in search of some deeply nested key to change a setting; this is just unacceptable. I also dislike the use of Bonobo; it has successfully scared me away from contributing to GNOME. I think simpler, more consistent concepts could be employed within GNOME to truly make it more with less.
Bravo. Unfortunately this reply was made by Thomas Sander Vestig to the Armageddon post that someone made there. I had a more or less conversation with Thomas about his reply around 3months after I first read it and asked him if he can prove that I’m the author of it – he can’t but had the feel during this time to name call me on that place. Nothing to prove but who cares someone can be blamed for it.
Anyways the whole GNOME community is full of fucking cheap retards. I haven’t been flamed by anyone else in the whole time than GNOME people only. Only for expressing my very own opinion. Not even KDE people blamed and namecalled me that way, they where always respectful people that you can sit on a table with and drink a beer.
Anyways I welcome what you do. Blame me, namecall me, slander me and libel me if you like. This only shows one at the end, that I can’t be blamed for just expressing my opinion and this only mirrors that the GNOME community is full of freaking jackasses that should better stop destroying Linux with their brainless shit.
Now a last sentence, I agree to Armageddon text. It’s written half a year ago and today it shows to be right in what’s written there. Thank you and now mod this down. And if Eugenia is fair too, then she will mod your shit down as well.
Sometimes sarcasm says so much more than real words ever could.
> Anyways the whole GNOME community is full of fucking cheap retards
Wow way to show your true colors man ! Any pretense of objectivity or fairness just went strait out trhe window there.
> Anyways I welcome what you do. Blame me, namecall me, slander me and libel me if you like
Like you do ? See statement above.
> I can’t be blamed for just expressing my opinion
For sure, but it’s always the same tired opinion, in every topic, usually several times. Seeing you spout negativity about the same people all time, gets old really really fast.
My kingdom for a killfilter !
oGALAXYo, your real name is Ali if I remember correctly, right? Just a question that is bothering me when reading your recent posts: you’re appearing relatively anti-Gnome on OSNews, but wrote scripts that build it from CVS. (These scripts build either KDE or GNOME, so one would think the author is more of a liberal/neutral when it comes to desktop issues). I’m just very curious and a little confused as to how that is really. Or are you a different person?
Oh actually I think this situation with protecting XFree86 is a new opinion. Just found the connection between GNOME and XFree86 to actually give my reply some context. I mean why should I sit on my chair and applaude when reading that GNOME will now start crippling XFree86 ? I mean Linux is my Operating System of choice and there are not many alternatives for XFree86 and I’m not sitting here pressing the thumbs and see how people which released a halfassed Desktop now destroy XFree86. This doesn’t make sense really. I don’t want that Linux becomes a new sort of QNX or BeOS that’s not Linux anymore.
If you know people that failed 2 times building a usable house then you don’t offer them a new project to build a new one because they fail again. They failed with GNOME why should they be allowed to break XFree86 ?
I’m the person who wrote that script besides some other GNOME things. That’s why it makes me a qualified person to justify my illustration because I speak from experience and not from looking at pretty icons.
I thought that Gnome hackers contributed libxml code used by a number of different projects.
I thought that Gnome hackers contributed code that went to XFT now being used by a number of different projects.
I understand the frustration with the GTK folks on the fileselector thing and even though I use Gnome everyday for work and home I understand many of your other points you have made about Gnome in the past.
However, to speak about all the GTK and Gnome code as being crap is unfair at best and just plain angry ranting if you want to know how it looks from an outsider.
Is this a site for preteens or something?
It’s all just childish bickering, no matter what the subject the discussions just tail off into petty arguement.
I’m going back to /. despite the constant dupes and first posters at least it has intelligent informed comment from time to time.
how come X windows runs slower on a 2.4ghz P4 than WinXP runs on a 500MHz PIII? redraws are slow, and media players are all suckass! copy and paste is crap. u can’t even copy pictures. and resizing monitor resolution? forget about it. don’t tell me about that ctrl + – bullshit, that’s not REAL resizing you DOLTS. you have that virtual resolution crap, and that SUCKS. u ppl just don’t get it, and you keep loving X for its beautiful “network transparency” well guess what idiots, 99% of users don’t care about that, they just want it to work better on their OWN FUKKIN COMPUTER. if “network transparency” means that X-Windows is SLOW SUCKASS on my own computer, then get rid of it please!!
you go “wah wah do users spend all day resizing their monotors” well the answer is NO but I don’t wanna have to break out a fukkin text editor every time I want to change my resolution. it is REALLY nice to be able to do shit without rebooting or restarting things, and having to restart X to change resolution is fuckin BULLSHIT. you preach about how much windows has to be rebooted well damn it I have to restart X/linux more than Windows nowadays.
oh, did I mention the fonts SUCKASS? antialiasing is crap, nothing like beautiful ClearType in windows, which is best antialiasing EVER. and what’s up with xft/xft2 why can’t X people just pick one thing and stick with it they have to go and reinvent the wheel 30 fuckin’ times and then it still sucks! that is the beauty of windows… one group controlling everything, not 500 open source programmers running 30 different directions.
x-windows fork is just indicative of open source in general, no one is in charge ! everyone does what they goddamn well pleases, and there’s no unified vision of where things should go
microsoft may be headed in the wrong direction sometimes, but hey, at least they’re just headed in ONE wrong direction, not 30 wrong directions at once.
Repeatedly. We all know you don’t like gnome, gnome people, gnome libraries, gnome’s entire framework design, gnome’s features, gnome T-shirts, people posting in defense of gnome. So why don’t you come up with something else to say? How about giving well thought out posts that provide useful information – like your example out the object based framework of KDE. The repeated “gnome is crap; therefore gnome programmers are crap” really doesn’t say much; aside from the fact that you have a persecution desire.
I look forward to hopefully reading something useful from you. Although I maybe waiting a long time… (btw, if you find this insulting take some solace in the fact you’ve now been insulted by a mac person instead of a gnomre person.)
My apologizes if you think that I’m repeating the same stuff all the time but this only shows that I don’t change my opinion with every second.
Your request of useful information can be extracted from my previous writings here. People who are responsible for the damage that happened to GNOME (through their employers maybe) shouldn’t be allowed to do the same with other projects. There is a good chance that they cause damage to these projects as well. Forking XFree86 could be viewed from both sides. The one side that says this is long needed (which I absolutely agree with) and on the other side you can be sure that those who are responsible for the bad success of GNOME will only cause more anger in the community because those who damaged GNOME will damage XFree86 fork as well. At the end we have 2 incomplete things laying around both not really usable for everydays usage. Then there is KDE which is pushing it’s desktop to the maximum have to live with the remaining parts of what the GNOME people caused. No doubt I overreacted a bit in my previous replies but this is because I must see unconscious (?) how they gonna hurt Linux and reaching the Desktop more and more.
The talent needed to write GUI applications is really not the same talent needed to work on a X implementation.
I mean, I haven’t used my full-power acetilene torch, but I must certainly have hurt you!
Remember our little quarrel when you were posting as “Ex GNOMME User” in the dot? I’m sure you do.
And ? All I did there was thanking KDE for a nice Desktop. Some GNOMERs meant to go there and flame KDE because of sucking Tools and I only replied that they shouldn’t value the GNOME Tools very high and that’s what I got flamed for. Instead bringing up good arguments against it some well known GNOME shitheads tried to make it a ‘GALAXY is lying’ action out of it. Everyone is welcome reading this from top to bottom.
How will you call this ? http://dot.kde.org/1048138902/1048181414/ maybe I’m the evil asshole person once again just for thanking KDE for making a good usable Desktop ? Blame me for this. I bet the same GNOME morons who blame me all the time replied there.
I miss the days when people discussed things intelligently here on OSNews.
… You didn’t get my name even REMOTELY right !
I don’t know what to tell my mom now.
For the record, it’s pretty obvious why I can’t conclusively prove you wrote that text, but I have yet to find one other person beside you that doesn’t believe you wrote it.
The reason nobody believes you didn’t write it is because the style of that text, as I succintly summarized back then, matches the style of pretty much all of your mails you wrote on various Gnome lists, and those mails are out there.
So anyone who has taken the troublen to find out whether or not it was you who wrote it already realized that you probably did.
But it doesn’t really matter if you did or didn’t. All I ever wanted to do was to make sure that NEW users that don’t know what this is all about can at least have a chance at making an informed opinion for themselves, and dispelling the completely subjective and personal attacks you make.
But, seriously, PLEASE get my name right. I’m so embarassed.
It would be easy of me to say ‘Nice troll’, but everything you said is TRUE.
Except for maybe the ClearType thing. ClearType is OK, not amazing, but I guess it still rivals all these horrible xft builds around.
this site has been an invaluable resource for a long time, but the quality of comments (from one oCONTRIBUTORo in particular) have ruined what was once a highly enjoyable place. and that is a real shame.
Sorry for having written your name incorrectly.
I hate to say it, but it may be time for a points-like system like good old /. You guys are really taking on! It’s like you’re discussing Iraq (Shit! I mentioned it! Sorry Eugenia).
Anyway, I like a good flame war once in a while. A lot of people think coders are emotionless and without personality. They obviously haven’t been reading some of the things going on here! I think it’s touching how much OSS coders really care about what they do, and how it’s looked after. But, the fear of losing your code legacy is leading to anger / hate /resentment, etc.
Try to keep in mind what you’re doing and WHY. The real trick here is to convince others of your views without insulting them and putting THEM on the defensive. Ultimately we all want something better, but using verbal barbs and cheap taunts won’t further ANYONE’s purposes.
For real, yo.
Peace, I’m out.
Sorry if you don’t allow me to explain my opinion. Please leave me your email so I can contact you the next time and ask you for permission to write what I think.
Oh and let me add that I appreciate that you ignore the other namecalling people who permanently attack me. Sure they are right and I’m not. Wow how could I expect something else. Oh by the way fix the Toolbar in grecord (gnome-media) it looks like you paid for only half of the toolbar
I never post anonymously, because I think it’s a sign of lack of moral conviction.
It can save you from an ass beating…
Seriously, no matter if you write Anonymously or use your real name including address. People flame you anyways if they don’t agree with you. Even the past couple of weeks where I expressed my opinion using my real nick people flamed me and personally me on the most retarded way so you can assume that I’m able to play the same game. If they hit below the belt then I’m able to do the same. I can repeat again I disagree a lot what happened with GNOME and I personally know who is responsible for that stupid target and you need to understand that I only protect my system, the tools I use from stupid people to destroy them. This doesn’t mean that I’m not open for new things but it’s questionable if these people who split a whole community of GNOME users will split and seed more anger in general by forking XFree86 and putting all their GNOME shit inside it. Take this statement as is.
Or you’ll beat me up? C’mon Gal, I know you can do it!
Ahahahaaha! This is *exactly* what I mean. You think because you’re online you can spew all this stuff (complete with attitude), and then no one’s supposed to call you on it? Calling people and projects stupid is going to get you flamed.
If anyone sounds angry and bitter it’s YOU my friend – THINK about what you say and how it might be taken if you actually care. Don’t get all defensive; just TAKE THIS STATEMENT AS IT IS.
“Sorry if you don’t allow me to explain my opinion. Please leave me your email so I can contact you the next time and ask you for permission to write what I think.”
read what i wrote, not what you think i wrote.
Well, let’s say that I don’t give a damn about being flmed,( because I know my flames shines hotter ;-), and that the odds of actual beatings are slim to none, ( based on geographical location and body size 😉
Then you missed a lot of messages my friend. I got flamed because of my very personal opinion. Go back here for 2 weeks (simply scan various GNOME related news) and read them. In none of them I used to be disrespective to people or attacked one single person. Just talking about GNOME. And some people replied namecalling me and whatever they have created only to give me a bad reputation. Same on dot.KDE.org. Those who flamed me didn’t even cared what I wrote, they only replied TROLL, FLAMER, namecalling. And it was always the same GNOME people. No one else. Even while many other readers agreed to me by replying, even then the same people didn’t cared and continued. Now you have nerve critizising me just because I jumped on the same wagoon and do the same dirty trick back ? Everything is archived here, go back (and everyone else too of course) and read what I actually wrote and who flamed me and how everything has grown up. You allow others to flame me but don’t allow me to defend myself ?
Slow is such a strong word .Benchmarks usually show that XFree86 is actually quite fast, the problem here is that all that those benchmarks show is that the server part of Xfree is fast putting stuff on screen, the problem is that those benchmarks don’t actually reflect the way xfree is used for desktop operations (like dragging browser windows). The time it takes from when you drag a window and when the server actually repaints the screen can vary due to way Xfree works, there can be some lag because of context switches between the server, the app, the window mangager etc. Also since Xfree86 is also single threaded it can only do one thing at a time, so if you have more windows with stuff on desktop they may also need repainting and the repaint of the window you’re dragging may have to wait.
Other stuff like not having real alpha (transparency ) support also adds to it, but this is probably not an xfree86 architecture problem, it’s just that they don’t see it as a priority (i’m still amazed how they got to implement font AA without it).
Anyway for my usual shameless plug:
DirectFB is multithreaded, support real alpha and is more lighweight than xfree86. Screenshots here: http://www.directfb.org/screenshots/index.xml
Don’t defend yourself? Yes, that’s exactly what I think. You should defend your POSITION. Big difference. People that pick on other people online are perceived (and rightly so) as assholes.
If you have something to say, say it, but mind HOW you say it. If you get up in someone’s face, don’t expect them to be nice to you. If they slag you off, stick with your position and don’t climb down to their level. make them explain themselves.
Easy to say, I don’t always do this either, but at some point you need to cut your losses or move on.
Hell, only this week I released three KDE or Qt based packages!
You said in dot.kde.org I had flamed you. Well, you can’t say that only GNOME people flame you because I am extremely not-GNOME-people!
Face it, you have been flamed by a verifyable KDE guy.
 KFTE 0.7.1 at http://sf.net/projects/kfte
 KRsN RSS news aggregator, http://sf.net/projects/krsn, very preliminary version
 PyKDE for KDE 3.1 interim release (not my code, but I hacked it into working)
Yeah bad world.
Whatever, but I don’t see the point getting flamed by you then. For what reason ? You know best on your very own that KDE is far ahead and that GNOME made some horrible mistakes. Even on dot.kde.org I haven’t lost one single bad line about KDE. Anyways, this doesn’t change my opinion. Since I come from the GNOME Desktop, have developed my very own stuff for it I am in the best position to say that GNOME shouldn’t fork XFree86 because I know what certain individuals like to push into it and you and I probably don’t agree to it. So it’s only fair to bring up my position on how I see the things. The GNOME people should first concentrate and get rid of all the problems inside GNOME. a) because they are have only a decreasing amount of programmers b) to show the world that GNOME is good enough to be taken serious. As long as this doesn’t happen these people shouldn’t touch other projects.
.. oh and again. Look above to the link that points to Thomas Vander Stichele ‘s comment on gnomedesktop.org. His open namecalling and ranting about my person got written during the 4 months that I used to be away from GNOME long long before I did anything bad simply for the fact that he assumed that some writing that someone from whatever country has post there was me. Without any proves. As you can see others aren’t better. Before criticising other people’s behaviour you should start criticising these people first.
Hey, I’m just coming into this on OSNEWS. You brought this HERE first before everyone else ‘jumped’ on you. This is exactly what I’m talking about. When you ‘defend’ yourself, there are unintended consequences – like me badgering you on proper net speech.
Well ‘everyone else jumped on me’. Actually it’s 99% of GNOME users I know (and know best) who heavily disagree to me by insulting, namecalling, libel and slander me. They are not new and not unknown ones. There is a difference in disargreeing and explaining why, so others can understand it OR to just badmouth. Look at the dot.kde.org link earlier in this thread (written by me) the same people flamed me regardless of what I have written. Even thanking KDE developers for a nice Desktop was reason for them to start a flame. So please don’t put me to the same level as them.
I don’t see how the link you gave about the responses to your “congratulations” are a flame. Basically the guy said “oh, it’s a KDE week for oGALAXYo”. Considering your flipflopping, I consider that a public service.
As for my flaming (which I consider moderate in your case), it was just that you misrepresented yourself as an ex GNOME user (and you still do), when you said yourself that you use GNOME “several hours a day”.
As for your personal attacks on anything GNOME related, I don’t give a damn, as I don’t give a damn about GNOME. But I consider that switching nicks and THEN attacking someone hiding like an anonymous chicken is low. And since you did that in dot.kde.org, you are low.
And I don’t like low.
Listen, I am just a human being and make mistakes. Every day I do mistakes, every day anyone else does mistakes. There are situations where I say something and then half an hour later regret that I said this and that’s life. But mistakes can easily be put besides if people agree for a normal conversation.
Yes I did use the nick ‘Ex GNOME user’ on dot.kde.org and it didn’t took long to find out but regardless to this you must agree that even by using ‘Ex GNOME user’ as nick on that day I didn’t wrote anything bad on dot.kde.org it was just a nick that I used at that time. I must admit that this was probably stupid but I had that idea during that day, time, moment to choose that nick.
But regardless of that nick, my writings there aren’t insulting or aren’t hurting (with one exception that I recall but it was necessary to clear borders). And even now you don’t seem to bother that I use oGALAXYo which is a nick too. I didn’t use my real name here and you still exchange writings with me.
Your writing has one problem – “use GNOME severl hours per day”. This is cut out of context and quite stupid for you to chain me as person on this sentence now. Right now I’m using KDE the past couple of 2 weeks and I’m quite happy. Since my nature is mood driven I could change back to GNOME tomorrow, next week or next month, who actually knows. What actually matters is what I write and what I like to explain. If you have problems with that then I can’t help it and I can’t force someone to be my new best friend. On the otherhand I know a lot of people whom I can talk and write normally to, they don’t chain everything on one badly interpreted sentence or grammar issues that I make because of bad english.
Regardless to this I still belive that the GNOME people shouldn’t fork XFree86 or put their specs inside the core XFree86 (as stated in the update from Eugenia to this Thread) because I know the GNOME plattform and community well enough to say this.
Now think for one moment. Assuming that GNOME and KDE gonna fork XFree86 and we see Havoc Pennington (I want to clearly state here that I have nothing personal against him, only for some of his visions. i do respect him) will push his GConf into XFree86 as underlaying tool for storing Settings. Then I’m sure that you and others may get totally pissed off shorter or longer. That’s the reason why I complain and say what I think.
Btw: Sorry for my bad english and the understandingproblems it caused to you. I bet our communication would be more productive (not only you, also with others) if my english wouldn’t suck so much. It’s almost 5 years ago that I refreshed my english in school. Maybe time to refresh it again. But hey, this is natural for an foreigner, we should still respect different people from different nations and don’t chain them for this.
Please don’t flame me but… I care about Gnome and now I’M offended!
Chuck: I hope not!
Ali: Cut out of context my ass. You keep on saying “I have used KDE for a couple of weeks now”. That is the same thing you said two weeks ago, and two weeks before that.
IN that dot.kde.org thread you were flat-out lying through your teeth, trying to make it look like you had left GNOME when you hadn’t, and that you were someone else because noone takes you seriously.
Both things are dishonest, and your rection to me calling you on them was insulting, when what you should have done, if you had a thread of dignity left, was to go away with your tail between your legs.
You are inartiulate, mendacious and pretty yucky.
You claim you respect Havoc, when you keep calling everything he does stupid, and him a dictator. If you believed what you wrote about him, and you respected him, you are stupid. If you don’t believe it, then you are dishonest. If you don’t respect him, you are a weasel.
Hey, you seriously sound like a fucking jackass now. I’m free in my decision to decide wether I use GNOME or KDE. I tried to be friendly with my last reply to you and tried to express the situation. If you give a damn shit about it then be it that way. You are no tad better than one of the worms living in my gardens dung hill.
And by the way your whole reply is OFF TOPIC, cut out of context, misinterpreted, misunderstood and basically stupid. Even when I explicitely replied to you (even on dot.kde.org in detail exclusively from me how the situation is) you still act narrowminded.
Why do you care a rats arse what I use and what not and why do you make it look like a lie regardless if I told you the facts ? Did you actually understood what I wrote or do you want me to translate it into argentinian ?
The situation with Havoc Pennington. You can respect people and still disagreeing with his opinions. Disagreeing doesn’t mean that I hate someone or sent troops to kill him. What kind of stupid shittalk is this. Grow up!
First, about Havoc:
Disagreing also doesn’t mean you have to call him a dictator, and his work stupid, when he is someone who at least has shown a lot of valuable code, That _is_ disrespectful. Get a grip, and if you gonna act all offended, stop writing so much offensive garbage.
Now, choice quote from http://dot.kde.org/1046679118/
“GNOME will soon become an orphaned lonely plattform”
And everything below here: http://dot.kde.org/1046679118/1046744482/1046746778/1046765834/1046…
Notice how I often write offensive garbage, but don’t act offended?
You guys are really going for it here. Cool! I’m roasting marshmallows!
Seriously, it doesn’t work to go on a flame binge and then at the end go, “Friendly Regards.” I actually laughed out loud when I read that.
You know what I want to see? I’d like to see a more well thought out approach to this argument – not so personal. This BS of he said / she said isn’t working for this main reason: English is not everyone’s first language.
Cultures are different too. Some of these conversations may have seemed a bit aggressive without meaning to be so. At least allow for that possibility before jumping on someone’s shit. You guys have a real misunderstanding here but it shouldn’t turn into a verbal fist fight. Chill out already!
If you want to have a constructive argument, tell me WHY KDE sux rocks or why GNOME is clueless. If this is the ‘new spirit of cooperation’ between these two camps Linux may be in for a bumpy ride.
I’d like to see X12, the successor to X11. A rearchitected X that continues to provide a backwards compatibility layer for old, crusty programs is what we need. It would be a whole rewrite and a big project, but if the X Consortium and XFree86 were in on it, it could be a reality. I myself have nothing to contribute, however. This is just a late night pipe dream.
Off to bed…
Besides that your writing is still OFF TOPIC, your serious problem is you cut things out of context and don’t understand what’s written.
How do you call people who permanently force his visions and ideas into GNOME and ignoring the wishes and ideas of other people ? This includes other users and other developers. Someone who abuses his powers and rights to force all this regardless what others think ? Well using the word ‘Dictator’ is not bad choosen after all. I think exactly this makes GNOME to become a lonly orphaned plattform one day if other people are treated that way. I had a few comments with Havoc Pennington either on the Mailinglists and/or bugzilla.gnome.org and it has proven what other people wrote about him, that he is ignoring other people. You should search the net for ‘GNOME Armageddon’ it’s explained in there with links to other pages which confirms my writing. I don’t want to disrespect his contributions to the GNOME plattform and I’m for sure in no position to criticise his coding capabilities or skills. But I do criticise some of his ideas that I don’t like and that I feel sad that they got implemented while existing alternatives used to be better. And you can read on various places from various other people that don’t like Metacity, GConf and some other things that Havoc Pennington wrote. GNOME is a project driven by many people and not by SINGLE persons, you may be a good programmer but you are a bad person working in teams with other people and respecting their individual ideas. To sum it up, he is a good coder but bad when it comes to Teamwork. And this is my own opinion your opinion may change.
Oh before I forget it, earlier in your Off Topic replies to me you were criticising me because I used ‘ex GNOME User’ that day on dot.kde.org. Maybe I should direct you and other attentive readers to this little conversation (thanks for the Link btw). It contains exactly your writings, same sentences etc. But I wasn’t able to read ‘Roberto’ in it. Maybe I’m missing something here. You shouldn’t fool other people when it’s obviously that you got trapped on your own here.
Further comments are not needed I guess. Oh yes I’m anon2 in this conversation but who actually gives a damn.
For the last. If Havoc Pennington feels insulted by my writings then it’s free to him contacting me via email and letting me know when he thinks that my anti GNOME PR doesn’t fit in his visions. I bet he is mature enough to do this on his own. He doesn’t need parrots like you who play the judge.
Ya know, I feel sorry for you already…. Too bad, you don’t have any of gold mouth.
Yeah yeah whatever. I feel sorry for the whole GNOME community and general stupid people with an IQ below 10.
Now this was a pretty much off-topic flamefest here. I’m wondering why you, oGALAXYo, didn’t got moderated down several times. Maybe Eugenia is sleeping (rest well ;-)).
Anyway, what i figured out of this mess was that you think the GNOME-People would mess up XFree if they would be allowed to participate in the development. I seems, or at least you claim, to know some internals of the GNOME-team.
So, could you please state your opinion clearly?
I’m really interested because i have my own doubts about Red-Hat/GNOME-people
when i read the comments from 1-72 i realize youre on a gnome-jihad, researching deeply i get the impression that your flaming upside down just because you couldnt wait for your critizism to make it into the code. i’d take this opportunity (if i where you) to step aside a moment and think if this spreading of FUD is really worth the progress of open source desktop environments as a whole. also i’d slowly start to think if your behaviorism brought you where you are now, a gnome-flaming-troll (allthough intelligent) filling the comment sections on osnews.com
but the author of Gnome Armageddon was no he:
I dont care about technology news anymore , can you people wisen up, im on standby since a few hours ago… I might not even see my kids….can you STOP with this shit… talk about change not… who types what in the correct sentence,,,
im leaving tommorrow to our state capital and might get shipped to iraq… start talking about shit that matter, like eugenia or just stfu im so tired… i might not see my kids… try to change it.. not… just… fight over it like .. crows..