From the press release: “Boosting performance while lowering the price of its popular desktop for home and school, Apple today announced an entirely new eMac line offering up to a 1 GHz PowerPC G4 processor, a faster 4x SuperDrive(TM), high performance ATI Radeon 7500 graphics, up to 80GB hard drives and internal support for AirPort Extreme wireless networking. Featuring a 17-inch flat CRT and a remarkably compact all-in-one design that is even less deep than the original iMac, the most affordable PowerPC G4 system now starts at just $799.” Update: New keyboard for eMacs. Read on.
| The new eMac | |||||
| 800 MHz G4 | 128MB RAM | 40GB | CD-ROM | ATI Radeon 7500, 32 MB | $799 |
| 1 GHz G4 | 128MB RAM | 60GB | DVD-ROM/CD-RW | ATI Radeon 7500, 32 MB | $999 |
| 1 GHz G4 | 256MB RAM | 80GB | 4x DVD-R/CD-RW | ATI Radeon 7500, 32 MB | $1,299 |
Buying an eMac from a reseller instead from Apple directly, should be a better idea, as they offer free RAM upgrades (256 MB or 512 MB modules), a free printer and/or a free USB floppy drive. Check online for such offers.
The new iMac features the new Mac keyboard which includes 2 USB ports (some people are not happy with this new design though as you probably are not able to type ‘flat’, which is what prevents wrist problems).
Currently you get 1.13 US$ for 1.00 Euro. Still, the 799 US$ eMac mentioned in the article sells for 829 Euros here (both prices before adding VAT tax).
Given the exchange rate, shouldn’t the price be at least equal, if not lower than in the US?
🙁
In the tech specs, they say that the 1280×960 resolution does 75 Hz and that the 1152×870 also does 75Hz. I think the 1152 does 79 actually (I tried the eMac at Frys the other day). And the 1280×1024 does 72 Hz I think. Apple haven’t upgraded the screen, but there is a small inconsistency in their tech specs page regarding the refresh rates.
Given the exchange rate, shouldn’t the price be at least equal, if not lower than in the US?
Welcome to the wonderful world of import duties
You don’t get much for $799… For that price, they could easily include an average-size hard drive and more RAM. And a 17″ monitor is *tiny* at any price. You don’t even get a CD-RW drive – I don’t see a floppy drive in the photos, so how are you supposed to transfer/save files?
I don’t want to start the same old boring discussion about Macs vs. PCs. But the last time I looked Dell had free RAM upgrades, free CD drive upgrades, free hard drive upgrades, as well as free shipping. Doesn’t Apple know there’s a recession going on?
-Bob
They could have at least beefed up the on-board video card! At least a ATI Radeon 9000. And where is Firewire 800?!?! This is just a revision of an older model. Nothing new to get all excited about.
Tech equipment usually seems to sell in the UK for the same number of Pounds Sterling as it would dollars in the USA. This hurts.
What are they talking about? By combining the monitor with the computer in one casing, all they eliminate is two cables. “A lot of extra” what?
Actually, since Apple has a branch in almost every European country there are no import duties. All you have to add to the prices I quoted is the local VAT.
Apple has no desire to actually sell a $799 eMac, its just part of their product mix. Well maybe they want to sell them to the education market where not having a CD-RW may actually be a benefit.
In the consumer market it is really all about positioning.
Personally I think the low end graphics card is fine for the market the eMac is aimed at, but I’m amazed there’s only 128Mb of RAM in the $799 and $999 models. RAM is very cheap and gives a massive performance boost, it seems like false economy to put so little in a Mac. Is Mac OS X even usable with that little RAM?
>but I’m amazed there’s only 128Mb of RAM in the $799 and $999 models.
They are doing this in order their resellers to offer “free RAM” modules along with “free printer”. You see, their resellers don’t have the right to sell them below $6 of the retail price, so they bundle the machines with “free” goodies in order to compensate for the price. In the end, as long you don’t buy from Apple, you end up with a free 256 MB or 512 MB new RAM module and a printer.
I think that the mid-range model finally hit my price/performance point. I’ve wanted a Mac for years, but the cost was just too high for what you get.
1Ghz and decent graphics will make OSX usable comfortably and even play most games fine.
Now if I haddn’t just bought my dual Xeon last week…
>you end up with a free 256 MB or 512 MB new RAM module and a printer.
And some of the resellers actually include a free USB floppy drive too. Depends on the reseller.
I still think they should sell it without a monitor. That way the machine will be cheaper. Many of us already have a monitor! That is why so many people don’t buy macs. You have to buy the expensive models in order to seperate the box from another monitor.
APPLE: We want an iBox!!!!
>They are doing this in order their resellers to
>offer “free RAM” modules along with “free printer”.
You know what would be nicer? Have Apple plop 256MB into that puppy and STILL have resellers like MacWarehouse offer free RAM/printer upgrades.
>I still think they should sell it without a monitor. That way the machine will be cheaper.
That 17″ monitor they include on the eMac costs about $90. If you think of it strategically, it worth to have the monitor included in order to sell a solution, instead of a “part”. For $90 bucks, it worth it including it.
>Have Apple plop 256MB into that puppy and STILL have resellers
I agree that the minimum should be 256 MB on all the Apple models.
>APPLE: We want an iBox!!!!
What ever happened to that guy?
That could kill places like Mac Warehouse.
>That could kill places like Mac Warehouse.
Perhaps. I wonder how much of their revenue stands to take a hit from the lost sales due to people not caring about the extra RAM? That is, if I’m John Doe looking for an eMac and see that Apple offers a base model with 256 MB of RAM, I wonder how likely I am to turn down the MacWarehouse version simply because I feel that 256MB is enough? My guess would be, not very likely. Even if John Doe considers 256MB enough, then he isn’t likely to refuse MacWarehouse because 512MB (or a free printer) is even better. More is always better, especially when free.
This is really about having a low-end entry device on the market to encourage adoption of mac and to address the “price sensitive” aspect of the market.
It is not really about what you could get from dell for $799. It is about buying a mac with a nice OS (a lot nicer than Windblows in my opinion) that will do pretty much everything you need it to do at a low price point.
This type of effort will encourage some new users. i am tempted.
“If you think of it strategically, it worth to have the monitor included in order to sell a solution, instead of a “part”. For $90 bucks, it worth it including it. ”
Not if you already have a 20 inch monitor. That monitor is a peice of junk. Then you could say an eMac for $699! Then sell them the expensive monitors! That is what Dell does. That is one of the reasons why PC makers have market share and Apple doesn’t. For all these years starting with the mac classic and its 2 inch black and white screen! The original mac had a Palm Handheld screen! They are not only thinking different, they are thinking Wrong! Modular machines!!
QUESTION: Why did Micro$oft’s DOS, Windows 3.11, Windows 9x take the world by storm, when they were all CRAP?!
ANSWER: The hardware was modular!!
QUESTION: How did Linux become so popular in the face of Microsoft? How could it compete on the same level?
ANSWER: The hardware was modular!!
http://www.2khappyware.com/corebox.html
This is an excellent (looking) design, one that I and certainly many others wish Apple would duplicate.
The pizzabox form factor is so wonderful, yet no one seems to be making them anymore.
>Not if you already have a 20 inch monitor.
Apple has a very particular market. The eMacs and iMacs are all-in-one solutions. For people who really have 20″ monitors, they are more likely to buy a PowerMac. And for the power users who just want to switch, they just buy an iBook or a Powerbook, because this is the big strength of Apple: laptops.
I’ve got two very nice 19″ monitors. One is hooked up to a 867 Dell, the other to a B&W Mac. I’m ready to upgrade one box for sure, but do I go for another 700 corporate pc box or a Mac. I can’t afford 1499 for a tower. I want a monitorless emac 3 years ago.
Still, I won’t completely rag on Apple’s value…I don’t just figure in the amount of ram… I figure in things things like iTunes, iCal, iMovie, iPhoto, iPod compatibility, Rendezvous, 802.11g and even .mac. It’s a very nice bundle.
I won’t pretend Macs are comparable values to PCs…but you get a LOT of decent software in the box.
Point taken. Apple really does need to supply low-end products to the “price sensitive” market, and this is a fair try. But they’re still missing it. A “price sensitive” Dell is $449, but it may not have comparable features and sofware as the eMac. Real cheap-asses can get a brand new PC at WalMart.com for $199 (no monitor).
And I disagree that this eMac line has the necessary features for casual home use. I’m a home user and wouldn’t tolerate a monitor that small. And what user doesn’t want some way to save files to media?
And the article update adds even more frustration.
Add a USB floppy drive – great idea. Now you’ve just eliminated the advantage of having a one-piece unit… fewer cords, remember? If you want a second hard drive does it have to be external also? If so, then you’ve got a bigger mess than an average PC.
USB ports on the keyboard? How stupid. Why not put them on the main unit? Just what I want, two more cords across the work area of my desk… Reminds me of my old Mac – some dumbass put the power switch on the back of the unit.
So where are the speakers and subwoofer? Don’t tell me I have to buy those extra too?!
-Bob
The problem is that monitors last much longer in a usable form than computers do. I bought my mom a new computer a few years ago (cost < $400 for the box, keyboard, mouse). She already had a decent 15″ monitor that she was using with her old cpu. That kind of low-end system just isn’t available in the Mac world (unless you shop on eBay and take your chances). Lucky for her she uses Windows or she wouldn’t have gotten a new computer for Christmas.
From this story here: http://news.com.com/2100-1042_3-1000001.html?tag=fd_top
“Apple debuted the eMac, which is built around a 17-inch CRT monitor, for the education market in April 2002. “That’s the market it was designed for,” Joswiak said.”
Hence guys, the eMac is not designed for you with your spare 20″ monitor. You are off to get either a laptop, or the 17″ iMac, or the PowerMac if you don’t want to use the all-in-one solution.
I’d say that Apple laptops look so good against PC offerings because regular laptops are not as open as desktop machines. One can’t assemble their laptop from spare parts and usually has to buy an unupgradable brand-name machine with tons of properiary connectors. The openness that made an x86 box that cheap and popular never came to x86 laptops.
Good reference Eugenia.
“Apple debuted the eMac, which is built around a 17-inch CRT monitor, for the education market in April 2002. “That’s the market it was designed for,” Joswiak said.”
However, there aren’t any schools around here that can afford a $799 computer. And I can’t think of how a school could utilize machines with no way for students/teachers to take their work home.
Does anyone know offhand the value of educational discounts on these computers? Half off?
-Bob
For education…
http://store.apple.com/1-800-800-APPL/WebObjects/K12.woa/72207/wo/B…
That’s for a local school, but I assume all of the prices are the same.
$100 off is no small thing, but still way out of the price range of local schools. Thanks for the info.
I have an incredibly difficult time comprehending why so many people here cite the lack of a floppy drive as a major issue.
We live in a world where virtually ever computer system has USB ports, and where both PCs (running Windows) and Macs can use solid state USB keychain storage with no additional drivers. Simply plug in your keychain drive and it shows up. It’s hassle free and provides reliable, solid state storage in a form that’s incredibly easy to take with you and rather durable compared to floppy disks.
Floppy drives provide you a mediocre 1.44MB of storage (in their raw, unformatted capacity) They are incredibly unreliable, and not very durable. For these reasons Apple is no longer providing floppy drives for their systems, and many OEMs such as Dell have slated them for removal from PCs.
USB keychain drives are relatively inexpensive, especially for providing ubiquitous and easily portable storage. A 32MB USB keychain costs $16 (with free shipping)
http://www.dealsonic.com/32usbflasmem.html
Can we finally put to rest the floppy argument? Floppy drives are an antequated and thoroughly obsolete technology.
I first used a Mac in 1998, and I use Macs almost daily since last year. I never needed a floppy drive with Macs. Ever.
$800 for a computer with 128mbs of memory? You’ve got to be kidding me! Memory is dirt cheap, Apple should start the systems off with atlease 256. 512 would be better.
“I first used a Mac in 1998, and I use Macs almost daily since last year. I never needed a floppy drive with Macs. Ever.”
Ah yes, but you are at home on your mac. eMacs are for schools. Studnets might want to work on a project at school, then take finish it at home. So unless they can email it to them selves or have a usb pen drive they are in a bad situation.
Some schools have a very annoying habit of blocking websites, including most web based email sites (and aol’s web mail). The average student doesnt carry around a usb harddrive on there key chain… so just how do they get there projects home?
They don’t. They go home and have to start all over again. I had to do this sevral times (untill I bought a usb drive) and i know a lot of people who still have that problem.
The lack of a floppy drive may not impact home users or corporate users, but for us students it is very, very aggravating.
I agree that floppy disks are junk. I certainly prefer using CD-RW disks for temporary storage and transportation, expecially with DirectCD. But the eMacs don’t have a CD-RW drive either. For the price, a RW drive really should be standard.
The keychain drives sound very interesting. The problem would be that I have to exchange files between older machines without USB. Also, $16 for 32MB of storage seems way too high. With CDs you get 650MB for 50 cents…
Funny thing. Above I complained that the old Macs have the power switch on the back. My PC has the USB port on the back – most inconvenient.
-Bob
no, I am not a mac zelot but you people are so damn hard on te mac that Eugenia is defending the platform!!! not saying she hates it but she is very level headed when it comes to her platforms.
as to schools buying these, 699 is a great price for a machine, I know. and schools spend more than you think they spend.
I don’t know what region of the country you live in Bobthearch but in Michigan they usualy spend 1000 per machine if they buy a PC.
and what is this crap about the floppy drive? macs lost those 5 years ago and now PCs are losing them. besides if you are seriouse about storage you get the midrange that gives you a CD-RW AND 1ghz for 1k which is a good price for a computer. else you can get a zip drive or an external cd-rw drive.
some times I think that you mac haters will say your things no matter what Apple offers.
I should add that I exchange files with a couple of computers that don’t even have CD drives.
Obsolete or not, floppy drives are an industry standard and millions of people use them every day. It wouldn’t add a significant amount to the cost, so why not include one? Just to give users headaches? Make users really appreciate a “free” upgrade drive?
Bob,
give it a rest. Let the damn thing die. It served it’s purpose, now it’s time to move on. Next up are Parallel, serial and PS/2 ports.
There are no USB ports on 486 machines in my university labs. I have yet to encounter a machine with a CDRW. Lots of boxes are running NT4, which has no USB flashdrive support. I had to use floppies to install an OS on my 486. I would not moan about absence of floppies if it did not affect me.
Floppy drives are not obsolete. They are the lowest common denominator that works on any machine. Disks themselves can be salvaged for free. I can give a floppy with a document to someone – I would not do this with a flashdrive, since the disk or flashdrive could never return to me.
As for choosing an education machine, VIA EPIA platform provides good integer perfomance. While its floating point perfomance is low, no one is ripping CDs or making movies in education environment. The older 800-mhz model without hancy stuff like Firewire costs a hundred. Add monitor, 256 megs of RAM, and maybe a cheap harddrive and a floppy, and you’ve got a real education machine that costs a hefty bit less then $700.
debman,
To be honest I don’t know the exact price the school pays for computers. The teachers mostly have old miscellaneous junk – no USB, no CDRW, no nothing. A couple of teachers got new machines last school year (including my wife) – bottom of the line Gateway. They may have cost close to an eMac’s current price, but PC prices have come way down since then. The computer class is filled with real crap, although it’s only two or three years old. They were bought from some company that puts together leftover parts and puts a sticker on the case. What would you say those cost? Kids in New Mexico are the stupidest in the country (check the stats) so spending money on classroom computers would probably be wasted anyway.
I’m not a Mac hater; we have four in the house. But to suggest I should spend a thousand dollars in order to have media storage – absolutely ridiculous.
-Bob
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2138700&cat=8…
Add a good 17″ monitor that can do 1280×1024 at 80 Hz (hey, never mess with your eyes) for $140+tax, plus a floppy drive for $10, an additional 256 MB RAM for $40 or so and here you are, you get a pretty fast networked PC running Red Hat Linux 9 for $400 USD. All you need is an admin (which I guess schools already have).
BTW, I have a Microtel PC and it still works fine after one year, except the mouse: It died after a few months of medium usage. The keyboard is icky too (I keep pressing the wrong keys on it, it has a weird feel and layout), but at least it still works.
I’m ready to give them up, no problem; I already said I dislike them. And kuddos to Mac for leaving behind obsolete features. But they have to offer a replacement – without paying extra(!) and integrated in the unit(!).
-Bob
where in NM? I am actualy going to move there 🙂
Send me an e-mail and I’ll tell you all about it. As an archaeologist I’ve seen quite a bit of NM and am familiar with most of the towns.
By the way, the 4 Macs we have *all* have floppy drives; none have USB, and one has a CD drive. How would I transfer files without floppy disks?
What the world doesn’t need is everyone supporting WalMart. While it’s great that they sell cheap PCs, it’s not great the way they abuse and destroy EVERYTHING. They pay thier people minimum wage, work them 39.5 hours / week to avoid paying benefits, and allow no unions. Every dollar you spend at WalMart goes into only the WalMart Exec’s hands, the people who work at the stores and run them don’t see a dime of extra for working extra hard. Also, in other countries WalMart promised to pay people a decent working wage. Instead they built thier stores and paid well below what they promised. In fact, in most other countries that WalMart is located, workers are lucky to get paid just over $2.00/hr. When a WalMart store moves into an area, they destroy all the local businesses by undercutting thier prices. They buy so much of any particular item, that they get it for thier famous low low prices. Because of this, people go to WalMart, instead of Mom and Pops, and Mom and Pop go out of business and have to lay off all thier happy employees.
This is all so unfortunate because the idea of a $200 pc is great. I just wish that these companies would start offering them to the local computer stores. Even places like Circuit City, where employees are treated like people rather than dirt, would be great.
Even though I’ve been one to typically go against the whole Apple thing. I would rather see people buying Macs than buying anything at WalMart. At least Apple doesn’t treat people nearly as badly as WalMart.
Its time for me to take the plunge this summer and buy one. I like the superdrive option and ram being cheap, I can just add more.
>What the world doesn’t need is everyone supporting WalMart
Hey, who said anything about WalMart? The people who create these PCs is MicroTel, NOT Walmart. Walmart is just one of their retail outlets and they have a web page, so I linked to theirs. MicroTel is the driving force behind these PCs.
To those of you who think its a mistake for a floppy to not be included, I have only one question: Should legecey technology never die? With that attitude, its amazing we moved to CDs, or away from 5.25″ disks. Where you the same people who argued that 10″ floppies “are just fine…”?
—————————–
Gee, I just don’t know if this ‘AGP’ thing is ever going to take off…
A ‘PCI’ sound card! The very thought is ludicrious! Why use that when you’ve got ISA?
XGA’s good enough!
I don’t know about giving up my Socket 7 processor… After all, I’ve got all these old Pentium processors…
DDR? pppttttt! Who needs more memory bandwidth!
—————————–
Sounds quite silly dosen’t it? The floppy is dead… We are in the death throws now… There are better storage solutions. You just have to accept them. At some point, backwards compatibility only holds you down. So, what do I say to all those who cry about labs with old pcs? Move on… You should look to see where your technology dollars are going. If you can’t change that, then go to another university. Hit’m in the wallet… They’ll wise up.
Asking the entire computer world to perpetuate the use of floppies and other legecy devices is only going to make matters worse…
For the people who seem to say that it is useless, since it has no floppy/cdrw:
http://www.apple.com/emac/superdrive.html
Never mind. Colour me impatient with the response.
The $799 model is a vanilla CD Drive.
Move along, nothing to see here.
“At least Apple doesn’t treat people nearly as badly as WalMart.”
I doubt any of the unskilled, very young, eldery, and uneducated people that work at WalMart could get jobs at Apple. Does Apple hire a lot of folks in your town?
The next town over has a Walmart, and without driving an hour and a half to the “city” it’s the only place to get decent prices on anything. The business strategy of local stores is to prey on people who don’t/can’t/won’t shop out of town. Maybe a WalMart next door would put these crooks out of business? You can see the same thing in most rural areas.
Just thought this needed some balance. Besides, WalMart stores don’t sell that computer; it’s only on-line.
-Bob
But they have to offer a replacement – without paying extra(!)
I only have to buy the medium(USB Key.) What extra? Even two of my keyboards(Apple and MS) have USB ports on them so I don’t even have to go under the table to put a diskette in. There isn’t a PC (there are 7) in the house that doesn’t have at least two USB ports.
The only use left for diskettes nowadays are updating BIOSes and installing older operating systems. And both of these are PC related uses. That’s it! Let it die.
“Let it die.”
It’s dead – I’m going outside. I’ve enjoyed interacting with you all, but I have yardwork to do.
Don’t just sit there at the computer all day – don’t you have something else to do too? 🙂
-Bob
I hope that my technology dollars aren’t going towards buying new machines that offer no benefits over old ones except the high-tech coolness. Going to university that buys new machines when old ones are still good enough is going to hit *me* in the wallet.
Call me cheap, I don’t care.
Kobolds take no pride in a job well done or how aesthetically pleasing a finished object is; of utmost importance is practical uses it has. Their craftmanship is shoddy and looks unmistakably hurried but, contrary to their basic looks, they are durable and functional.
The Slayer’s Guide to Kobolds
If disks are the LCD, networks are also equally ubiqitous. So… let’s see… One $18 floppy drive on the network can take care of every kid in a 40 kid classroom. That’s less than 50 cents for a onetime cost and creates a more controlled network classroom environment.
Kevin: “They don’t. They go home and have to start all over again. I had to do this sevral times (untill I bought a usb drive) and i know a lot of people who still have that problem.” Seriously? You started working on a computer you couldn’t get material off of? And did it several times? What kind of school? A grade school? A college? Does your school not have internet access or network storage for you? A zip drive, usb slot, floppy drive, or CD-RW anywhere on the network could solve your problem. Internet access could solve your problems. Is it the eMac that’s limited or is it your school or you that’s limited?
Better, Eugenia?
Better, thanks.
But we aren’t crazy. We passed the tests.
The keychain drives sound very interesting. The problem would be that I have to exchange files between older machines without USB.
Are you doing this with any Macintosh computers? I think the argument here is that the eMac doesn’t provide an easy means of moving data from one system to the other.
Also, $16 for 32MB of storage seems way too high. With CDs you get 650MB for 50 cents…
Yes, but there are several caveats with CD-R(W)s versus USB pen drives:
A CD-R can be used once. A CD-RW can be used several times, but requires being flashed/reburned. USB flash drives operate with a read/writable filesystem, which makes them much more convenient to use. Furthermore, CD-R(W)s can easily be scratched, so they must be carried in some sort of protective container. They break easily (as do jewel cases) so carrying them in your pocket is almost out of the question. Pen drives fit on your keychain, so you can have them wherever you go. They last for over 100,000 write cycles, far longer than your average CD-RW. For what you’re purchasing, a pen drive is well worth it.
eMacs are for schools. Studnets might want to work on a project at school, then take finish it at home. So unless they can email it to them selves or have a usb pen drive they are in a bad situation.
And for $16, why don’t they have pen drives? I think it’s mainly because people are ignorant of the technology. Floppies have no advantages over pen drives except for the fact that they’re present on legacy systems.
For most people the floppy disk is dead technology, I certainly never use them. But for some people (especially students) there often isn’t any other option. My local college doesn’t have USB ports, CD-RW drives, or internet access on 95% of it’s computers, floppy disks are the only way of transferring data. Obviously a floppy drive would be a necessity for any students studying there and USB floppy drives for Macs tend to be quite expensive.
As for having a monitorless eMac, I think that for the eMac’s market having a built in monitor is a good idea. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t demand for a low end Mac without a monitor. The main reason I don’t own a modern Mac is that a G4 desktop is too expensive and I hate using a small monitor. Obviously I don’t know if there’s enough of a market to justify Apple releasing a monitorless low end Mac, but it’s something I often see requested.
The main reason I don’t own a modern Mac is that a G4 desktop is too expensive and I hate using a small monitor.
How on earth is 17″ a “small monitor”? Most of the PC systems I work on here all have 15″ monitors or less. 17″ seems to be the standard monitor size for new systems bundled with CRTs at this point in time, and 15″ for new LCDs.
I agree. The 17″ is the “normal” CRT these days. I remember back in my days, it was the 14″.
If people are used to 1600×1200 resolutions on 21″ monitors, then these users are nothing but power users. And Apple offers the PowerMac for these users. Yes, it’s expensive, but if you are a power user, you are likely to start bitching a few months later after buying an all-in-one solution, so better save some money for the Powermac.
“USB floppy drives for Macs tend to be quite expensive.”
They’re available for between $16 and $30. You go to a college without internet access (for real? you sure you aren’t making this up, or that you go to school, or that it’s a college?), and for the price of three beers you can solve all your problems…
Shouldn’t you be complaining to your school for having such poor technology that they don’t have USB connections, CD drives, zip drives, or internet access on 95% of their computers rather than to Apple who has done away with and done just fine without the legacy connectivity for five years now?!
My search of froogle.com for “USB floppy” gave me results between $50 and $90. Maybe you could provide more info on where can I buy a $16 external USB drive?
For $21 I found a 32 MB USB PenDrive. These are pretty convienient.
Also, please use a normal header/synopsis for your comments.
I’m more interested in the key layout. The lack of flatness doesn’t affect me (yet).
How on earth is 17″ a “small monitor”?
When you’re used to a 21″ (or even a 19″), 17″ is _small_.
What Apple needs is a low cost, headless system – a return of the cube, but priced realistically.
This is what the 1Ghz G4 PowerMac *should* have been…
A smallish enclosure (say, 2/3 the size of a desktop Beige G3, or about the same as a Dell GX260), with an AGP-slot-mounted video card, one free PCI slot, 2×3.5″ internal bays and 1×5.25″ external bay (2 would be better, but would probably start encroaching on the PowerMac). It needs to have a superdrive option. It needs to be priced from under the $2500 (Australian) mark (so around $1300 US).
It’s a perfect “switcher” machine because it allows people to re-use their existing parts. They would flock to it likes moths to a flame. It’s better than an [i|e]Mac because a) it doesn’t force the user to pay for something they often don’t want or need and b) is at least marginally expandable. If Apple made something like this I’d buy it tomorrow. As it is I can’t justify the cost of a 1GHz PowerMac and I don’t want to “waste” the money on the LCD of the iMac when I already have a perfectly good monitor. So, I’m not buying anything.
In all honesty I am still amazed Apple didn’t sieze the chance to address this gaping hole in their lineup when they introduced the 1Ghz PowerMac. With it they would cover nearly all the market – from the educational buyer (eMac), to the regular joe consumer (15″ iMac), to the show-off yuppy (17″ iMac), to the half-a-dozen-machines-under-their-desk enthusiast (mythical 1Ghz PowerMac) to the professional (dual G4 PowerMacs). The only thing missing would be a high end workstation – but that’s simply because the hardware just doesn’t exist.
http://www.2khappyware.com/corecrib.html
>>>If people are used to 1600×1200 resolutions on 21″ monitors, then these users are nothing but power users. And Apple offers the PowerMac for these users. Yes, it’s expensive, but if you are a power user, you are likely to start bitching a few months later after buying an all-in-one solution, so better save some money for the Powermac.
i disagree. i already own 8 pcs, and 2 macs. i need another mac for my lab.
period.
i DON’T want to spend another $1500. (the economy sucks or haven’t you noticed)
i don’t need another monitor, and i don’t want to buy a used machine.
i can get a decent 1ghz x86 for $300 new.
i should be able to get a slow but new mac sans monitor for $500.
but i can’t. too bad..because that’s how mind share shrinks.
in some cases, it’s about the money. period.
“You go to a college without internet access (for real? you sure you aren’t making this up, or that you go to school, or that it’s a college?)”
Actually I don’t go to the college, I just know a couple of people who work there and did some night classes. If they had the money to upgrade their computers I imagine they would have done it. They have internet access, but it’s only available on certain computers that have to be booked in advance. They made that decision because of misuse by students, some people were spending more time browsing than working. Anyway floppy disks serve their purpose quite well, I doubt the college is going to spend money providing an alternative even if there are a few Mac users who have a problem.
I’m not saying Apple should put floppy disk drives in their computers, I’m just saying that some people still need them.
17″ standard? It could be that complete systems come with monitors that size. But after having a 19″ for three or four years, it would be hard to go smaller.
I’ve got a Kaypro that came with a built-in 9-inch monitor. That is twice as large as as Osborne monitor.
re: Bascule
Yes there are disadvantages to compact disks. But I have never scratched one. Also, I *love* the DirectCD software that allows you to use a CD-RW disk as a small hard drive. You can read/write/edit all without reformatting – very convenient.
Backing up files to a 32MB mini-drive doesn’t sound that practical. It would take a boxful of those drives to replace a single CD of mp3s, photos, archived e-mails, documents, etc. But it would be great at work to take a single document to the printer, or to the boss’s computer for editing, or to the drafting department downstairs.
debman:
Your e-mail came and went. Somehow MailWasher marked it as spam, and I spotted it too late. If you can re-send it I’ll be extra watchful this time.
-Bob
In all honesty I am still amazed Apple didn’t sieze the chance to address this gaping hole in their lineup when they introduced the 1Ghz PowerMac.
Can you give us a link to the marketing study that shows that it is a “gaping hole in their lineup” rather than a little hole? Or do you just think that you are so important, and that everyone is like you? 🙂
Many of you have been demanding (rather stridently) that Apple deliver a small modular machine. Apple did have a smallish modular computer, at a lower price, which sold without a monitor. The PowerMac Cube was released to rave reviews from the press, but sales where dismal, and Apple pulled it from the market.
It at first, it suffered from high price, and lack of a good monitor choice from Apple. But, toward the end, Apple lowered the price to a very reasonable level. I think it hit $1,100 for a 400 MHz unit (think 1 to 1.2 GHz by today’s standards). Sales never took off.
Interestingly the second generation iMacs with a flat panel where almost an identical in specs and features. However they had a 15″ LCD screen permanently bolted to them. They sold very well even considering the weaker economy.
Apple probably could introduce a modular unit for about $700 or $800 dollars, with a 1 GHz chip. However Apple is very conservative about inventory control. That is one of the reasons they stayed profitable the last few quarters. They would have to see a very serious market for such a machine before they produce one.
Interestingly these cubes appear to be holding their value on eBay better than the full size PowerMacs of the same power and vintage.
Hmm, from the front view it looks just like an “etch-a-sketch” toy.
For those of you complaining that the eMac has too small a monitor, it does have a VGA port.
Buy one and plug it into your old monitor. Theres nothing stopping you.
You can hide the body of the beast under your desk, just like any tower, and its only a third bigger than a tower case for a PC ( with a built in monitor for lan parties etc ).
For my money, the eMac has finally hit the sweet spot, for 999 I get a 1gig G4, reasonable graphics, and combo drive. Im pretty sure that the iBook dual monitor hack will work on it as well.
My only disappointment is that the stand isnt included.
Yes, macs are overprised, software for them and games, and what do I gain if I run PPC Linux? If they would somehow cut their prices I would go for a Mac, but right now, my PC does the job.
“http://www.2khappyware.com/corecrib.html“ looks like a nice sollution. BTW: Doesn’t the licence for OS X restrict the OS to be used only on Macs? Or is it like: “Name it like you want, just don’t call it a Mac, only Apple can do that” ???
Or do you just think that you are so important, and that everyone is like you? 🙂
No, but I look at the Mac lineup and it seems to me the only market segment Apple can cater for, but aren’t, is the computer enthusiast (that is me, and people like me, with several different machines, a lot of existing hardware like monitors, keyboards, KVMs, etc and who want a Mac to play around with). As I said in my original post, everything else they’ve either got a product for or can’t make one. I consider it a “gaping hole” rather than a “little hole” because it’s a completely missing product, rather than a slightly inflexible one (eg: not being able to get an 800Mhz eMac with a SuperDrive is a “little hole”).
“http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html“
It is so much faster than the P4…Nah, don’t think so, just bloat-wapor-ware…apple zealots please don’t kill me, I’m to young to die.
BTW: Wasn’t the G4 brought out in late 1999? Wow, this year the boy its gonna be 4 years old, real nice, what will we buy him for his birthsday party? Maybe a new name? Or maybe add some mhz? Or maybe it will be burried and somethig else follows?
PS: To those who think the x86 should die: Have you ever coded ASM? Maybe checked out SSE/SSE2 or 3DNow? Not MMX, that one sux and is most of the time useless.
Marc, you obviously don’t read before you post your URLs. Below we write this: LEAVE SPACES to autoparse URLs. Don’t include them in parenthesis or other characters.
Thanks for the tip. I am just somehow sick to see the same things again again, zealotry and so on. People should take things as they are and use what they like. I just don’t care what others use, and don’t point at others. And yes, Macs are overprized, and that is the only thing that is holding me back from buying one, because otherwise I like them. I always did. They are quality computers, and cool to. Who knows, maybe apple will open its eyes and lower prices.
it’s just too much money for a tinkerer like me.
maybe yo yo ma, yeow, or mini-me can afford them.
i need to pay rent.
wake me up when you can run os-x on a new U.S. $500 machine.
zzzzzz
Take out the eye-candy and give it to a baby…
Would you still run OS X?
Selling these eMacs with 128MBs of RAM is a joke and can leave a pretty bad impression to a new Mac user. Installing 256MB is more realistic and even with that Mac OS X can use more.
CD-ROM on the low end is really cheap, why not have CDRW? This makes no sense.
Prices are getting lower but like everyone said, Apple really needs to have some type of mini-tower, pizza-box or cube system.
How much was the entry-level 700mhz eMac?
You get all worked up here, but you laid low on the new iTunes store. Huh. wonder why
Just curious, you really seem to need to split the world into apple lovers and apple haters. Why? I suspect except for a few folks, most people really just don’t care that much. I guess I just wanna know what the big deal is.
One has to give Apple credit for continuing to lower prices. Although the new eMac certainly is not an interesting computer for me, I can see it being a useful information appliance for many customers.
Keep sending email to Apple vis-a-vis a small iBox computer with DVI output. They will eventually listen.
If you are looking at buying ANY Apple computer, keep in mind the entire Apple computer line will be obsolete in a year when 64-bits is available across the product line.
People don’t buy Macs because of the hardware & design, but for running applications in the Mac OS (with pretty good hardware and excellent design). If planning to use only Linux or BSD on a Mac, then hardware would be the main point (unless the design…). Otherwise Mac OS X and the iApps have huge value.
Some ignorant Windows-users are from some weird reason Mac-haters, and many Mac users are also Mac-lovers. Favourite comment from crazy fanatic Windows-lovers is that ALL Mac-lovers are crazy and fanatic…
I’ve seen many people lose their portfolios (Word & Excel documents) because their extremely small, slow, unreliable and fragile floppies have died. While using machines with unrestricted fast internet connections…
Most cheap PC-bundles include a crappy non-flat 1024×768 17″ monitor, eMac has a flat 1280×960.
Why on Earth should the previously education-only CD-ROM model be deleted? (“Why only CD-ROM”) K-12 classrooms don’t need every machine with a CD-RW. Remember it’s education-Mac (where CRT’s are more stabile and cheaper than iMacs’ LCD’s). There´s also other models with more versatile optical drives, but those are little more expensive. (Duh.)
Floppy drives provide you a mediocre 1.44MB of storage (in their raw, unformatted capacity) They are incredibly unreliable, and not very durable.
An unformatted 3,5″ DSHD floppy holds 2 MB. Formatting them on a PC gives you 1,44 MB of capacity. Formatting them on a Mac gives you 1,6 MB capacity. There is no 3,5″ floppy which is 1,44 MB unformatted.
Oh, and floppies aren’t unreliable. Bad Taiwanese floppies and bad Taiwanese floppy drives are.
PS: To those who think the x86 should die: Have you ever coded ASM? Maybe checked out SSE/SSE2 or 3DNow? Not MMX, that one sux and is most of the time useless.
The Intel architecture has sent many an assemlbly coder running away screaming.
I’m waiting for someone to benchmark these machines, to see how they compare with PC machines in similar applications.
Michael said:
If you are looking at buying ANY Apple computer, keep in mind the entire Apple computer line will be obsolete in a year when 64-bits is available across the product line.
—————–
1) 64 bits will never compete reach this price range for a long time, IMO. I am unaware of the entire Apple product line getting 64-bit processors.
2) There will be big interoperability and support issues for a while after the introduction of radical new processors, IMO.
3) In 3 or 4 years, things might be adequately supported, ready, stable & competitively priced in 64-bit land, ready for mass adoption. I don’t think anyone buying an eMac has anything to worry about (apart from buying one in the first place, that is). In 2-3 years, most computers are well behind the times anyway, ripe for replacement.
Don’t overlook the cost of the OS in the price. Also consider that Apple is relying less on their hardware to make money and more on services such as their new music store.
The emac is a very nice machine, however I would not buy another mac at this point. The new portables have too many problems right now; give Apple at least two revisions to get things in order. I bought the ibook a year ago to use OS X to learn unix (which was not very helpful), and I am amazed of the number of other OS’s that this machine is able to run(BSD, Gnu/Linux, soon oweros). The ibook will always be a worthwhile portable in my book as well as the powerbook G3, but like I said I’m simply done with apple hardware. I’m no longer a slave to the hype. Also, I would just like to say that I really don’t like how apple aa fonts render on my ibook. XFT2 is the best aa engine I have used.
“Most cheap PC-bundles include a crappy non-flat 1024×768 17″ monitor”
I don’t know where you live, but i haven’t seen a non flat monitor for a while. Atlease 6 months. Mabye more. Even emachines give you flat crts.
The eMac originally was only sold for education. Then according to Apple, the demand for it was so great, they decided to sell it to the public at large. I have often wondered about that. They decided to do this right when the economy started turning bad and sales of the new flat panel iMac started plummeting, after having gotten off to a great start. So, that has always been intreresting to me 🙂
The “new” eMac has moved up in all areas except one. It has a 133 MHz bus now (up from 100), fully supports Quartz Extreme, uses AirPort Extreme now rather than regular AirPort and, here’s the thing that’s stayed the same – it still uses SDRAM rather than DRR RAM. Of course, with the 133 mHz bus, it could be argued that it doesn’t make much difference.
The big problem with the eMac was the “raster shift” problem, which affected untold numbers of eMac displays. At first, to fix it, they had to replace the whole video module. Then, they isolated the problem to one IVID cable. I sure hope they’ve fixed this as that was really a bad problem that affected many people.
Somebody was asking about this…the eMac has built-in speakers that are much superier than the built-in speakers of the original all-in-one 15″ iMac. And, you can get an iSub subwoofer to round things out and have pretty good sound.
Here is the software that comes with the eMac, all eMacs (except you don’t get iDVD if you didn’t get a SuperDrive:
QuickTime, iCal, iChat, iLife (includes iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD(6)), iSync, DVD Player, AppleWorks, Mac OS X Mail, Microsoft Internet Explorer, EarthLink (includes 30 days of free service), AOL, Quicken 2003 Deluxe, World Book 2003 Edition, Mac OS X Chess, Otto Matic, Deimos Rising, Microsoft Office v. X Test Drive, Sound Studio, FAXstf and Acrobat Reader; Apple Hardware Test CD.
And that’s not to mention Safari, which they don’t include because it’s still beta. It’s an excellent bundle and I do not think it can be beat for this price range.
Someone mentioned benchmarks. Well, I don’t know for a fact, but I suppose it should be just about the same as the flat panel iMac (I’m speaking of the 1 GHz eMac). Maybe the iMac would eek out a little more because of the DRR RAM.
The RAM situation – i understand that Apple wants to give the resellers a chance to make some money and include free RAM. However, I think it should be in other areas they should do this. If a person goes to the Apple Online Store and sees that 128 MB RAM, they are not going to be happy at all.
So, if you go to the Apple Store and choose the $999 1 GHz model, get an AirPort Extreme card, 512 MB RAM, an iSub and the three year AppleCare warranty, you’ll end up paying almost $1500.
If you go for the $799 model with the 800 MHz processor and get 256 MB RAM, no AirPort card, no iSub and just the normal AppleCare plan, it will run you $850. That’s a big difference.
So anyway, assuming the raster shift video probelem has been fixed, I believe a person can mix and match an eMac to suit how mch thay can or want to spend. I think it’s a good deal, especially because of the software.
I can’t stand people that hike up the keyboards. I’ve got enough RSS problems alread at the ripe age of 21, when I see people with them jacked up as high as they go I cringe.
45 mintues on a non-split keyboard, and my wrists are painfully inflamed. I don’t understand how people can do it…
Just plug in your zip or external drive to eMac. It will solve all your problem.
P.S.- Zip drives are better than 1.44 Floppy drive. I use zip drive for my PC and i can transfer my data to my friends iMac without a problems.
Floppy are dirt cheap but they are highly unreliable
the world does not consist of mac haters and mac lovers. However, there are some mac haters and some mac lovers. Most people fall into neither category (e.g., they don’t care). I never have said or indicated otherwise, but I hope this clears things up for you.
1) 64 bits will never compete reach this price range for a long time, IMO. I am unaware of the entire Apple product line getting 64-bit processors.
Why will 64 bits not reach this price range? Moore’s Law will make low end 64 bit cores very cheap within a year. Many leading foundries will have 90nm fabs capable of turning out cheap 64 bit processors this year.
Now you might be right… Apple — being the greedy company that they are — may choose to milk the high-end 64 bit chips for years and not make them available to the low end.
2) There will be big interoperability and support issues for a while after the introduction of radical new processors, IMO.
Ah the beauty of the PPC970 is that Apple’s 32 bit OS runs fine on it. So moving to the new hardware base is a matter of simple software upgrades, not a radical shift in fundamental architecture such as going from 32 bit Intel to 64 bit Intel.
3) In 3 or 4 years, things might be adequately supported, ready, stable & competitively priced in 64-bit land, ready for mass adoption. I don’t think anyone buying an eMac has anything to worry about (apart from buying one in the first place, that is). In 2-3 years, most computers are well behind the times anyway, ripe for replacement.
Maybe you are right. Apple does move at a glacial pace when it comes to technology.
Nonetheless, as soon as the new 64 bit PPC970 machines come out, most Apple software will be tuned to run on these new chips. Hence the eMac will be obsolete anyway. The eMac will not run any of the cool new software than will only run on the faster 64 bit processors.