The OpenBSD folks are informing us that mozilla works in -current, the SMP branch works okay with a big lock on i386, the UltraSPARC III goes single user now and the AMD Hammer port: kernel works so far, toolchain/compiler stuff in the works now.
AMD64, UltraSparc III and SMP Support in OpenBSD-CURRENT
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Now that OpenBSD boots on UltraSPARC III systems, OpenBSD’s requests for documentation on esoteric security features of the UltraSPARC III seem somewhat more legitimate.
Someone has to: It works like FreeBSD in 2001.
I’m sorry, I have no reason to dislike them but I just wonder WTF sometimes.
Hum, Isn’t OpenBSD more related to NetBSD?
Umm, the OpenBSD project has different goals than FreeBSD. Security comes before features in their priority list. Although, I find it surprising they haven’t already put Mozilla into their ports.
I mean encryption, etc can be good for protecting credit card numbers but it is also used by criminals and pedophiles who want to escape the wrath of the law. Do we really want a truly secure OS? Is OpenBSD inviting a lawsuit by the US government? I think Windows XP has a good balance between security and features, maybe we should leave it at that…
I mean encryption, etc can be good for protecting credit card numbers but it is also used by criminals and pedophiles who want to escape the wrath of the law. Do we really want a truly secure OS? Is OpenBSD inviting a lawsuit by the US government? I think Windows XP has a good balance between security and features, maybe we should leave it at that…
Yes, and safes should be illegal because they can be used by thieves to securely store stolen goods.
Seriously, how is a criminal going to use an OpenBSD system in such a surrpoticious manner that law enforcement will be hindered? Your comment makes no sense…
If you don’t believe me that encryption and firewalls are causing harm to our country, read this:
http://www.securityfocus.com/news/4662
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/US/08/22/terror.tape.main/
http://vigilant.tv/article/2954
Does the open source community really want to be endorsing this kind of activity?
Does Ford really want to be endorsing bank robberies? Does Chevy really want to be endorsing the Oklahoma City bombing? Or Boeing endorsing dive bombing 747’s into buildings in order to commit mass hysteria?
No, sometimes shit happens and we all know that you can’t blame the manufacturer for what happens when their products are misused.
…Unless you’re the kid who wrote DeCSS…
Does Ford really want to be endorsing bank robberies? Does Chevy really want to be endorsing the Oklahoma City bombing? Or Boeing endorsing dive bombing 747’s into buildings in order to commit mass hysteria?
The thing is cards, aeroplanes, etc. have many more uses apart from anti-social activity. Encryption on the other hand is mostly for a) the paranoid, b) criminals.
No, sometimes shit happens and we all know that you can’t blame the manufacturer for what happens when their products are misused.
Tell that to the tobacco companies.
…Unless you’re the kid who wrote DeCSS…
Please don’t cloud the issue here. We’re talking about encryption and crime, not copyright infringment (which is not helped or hindered by encryption in any way).
Tell a company whose trade secrets have to be transferred over the internet that they can’t use PGP, GPG, or stegged images.
Just because it can be used by criminals doesn’t make it illegal. Christ AOL is the largest gathering of pedophiles in the world and it’s not illegal. I suppose I’m supposed to use my wireless access points without 128 bit WEP encryption right? Because otherwise, I’m a criminal and/or paranoid. I’m sorry, but for what I do for work, I don’t need kiddies grabbing trade secrets.
How are cigarettes misused? You’re supposed to smoke them…That’s their whole reason for existance.
Tell a company whose trade secrets have to be transferred over the internet that they can’t use PGP, GPG, or stegged images.
I don’t understand how encryption helps in this case. Even if not encrypted, no-one but the FBI with a wiretap order can obtain the information anyway, and I doubt they’re interested in trade secrets.
Just because it can be used by criminals doesn’t make it illegal.
Yet gun control reduces the number of murders…
Christ AOL is the largest gathering of pedophiles in the world and it’s not illegal.
Yes, but AOL has other legitimate uses, like internet explorer, etc.
I suppose I’m supposed to use my wireless access points without 128 bit WEP encryption right?
Unless you’ve got something to hide from the law…
How are cigarettes misused? You’re supposed to smoke them…That’s their whole reason for existance.
Tell that to my brother, who died of lung cancer.
I never said encryption should be illegal. The cat’s out of the bag so to speak… which is also why SCO will have trouble shutting down inappropriate use of their technology, which they admittedly leaked themselves.
However the community should not promote encryption and other security technologies so heavily. Maybe 5 years ago it would be OK, but events in the last few years changed everything.
Please stop feeding him.
Kudos to the OpenBSD team for their hard work! The Ultrasparc port is a neat thing, but I wonder how many people will use it. I think that focusing on more popular architectures would gain more mindshare, but then again I run it on a DEC Multia (Alpha) so I shouldn’t really talk.
The AMD64 port is also very good news. Lots of cool features in that processor for supporting memory protection.
Please don’t feed the crypto-troll
He’s a pompous $@#$head and i don’t want him to fill up this thread with a bunch of bull
Anyway…on to something that’s actually ON topic…good work OpenBSD team!!! OpenBSD is THE way to go when it comes to setting up secure Router/Gateway/Firewall boxes…easy secure and powerful…and some of your smaller services are great on OpenBSD too…things like DHCP and DNS are great on OpenBSD!!!
A little tricky to set up as a workstation though, but still doable and pretty damn nice too.
-bytes256
>>Does Ford really want to be endorsing bank robberies? Does
>>Chevy really want to be endorsing the Oklahoma City
>>bombing? Or Boeing endorsing dive bombing 747’s into
>>buildings in order to commit mass hysteria?
>
>The thing is cards, aeroplanes, etc. have many more uses
>apart from anti-social activity. Encryption on the other
>hand is mostly for a) the paranoid, b) criminals.
It makes no sense. It’s also for the business, store, bank and etc. ‘I have nothing to hide, why should I hide?’ is one of most stupid quote. When, you don’t hide your info and etc, then the idiots will misuse them for no reason to destroy your personal or so as well.
>>No, sometimes shit happens and we all know that you can’t
>>blame the manufacturer for what happens when their
>>products are misused.
>
>Tell that to the tobacco companies.
WTF? You have no point here; it’s off point.
>>…Unless you’re the kid who wrote DeCSS…
>
>Please don’t cloud the issue here. We’re talking about
>encryption and crime, not copyright infringment (which is >not helped or hindered by encryption in any way).
I think, he’s on the right path and point. You are the one that who is clouding in here that don’t understand what misuse is. There’s awful a lot of things have been misused by the idiots to destroy the things.
Jason, what are you talking about. Encryption is built right into windows xp. Right click and you can encrypt a folder. Of course an administrator can easily remove the encryption. Wait, you do not want people promoting security technolgies? You want people using easily to crack systems? So you want flawed webservers like IIS 4.0 and people running break outlook exress? Ever see what happen when people use less secure software? We have such things as code red and the i love you virus. Thats what happens when you do not promot security and encryption. You want your bank pin sniffed out because your bank does not want to encrypt your pin number when you dial up? I dont think so.
Your brother used cigs correctly, that is why he got lung cancer and died. I mean if he smoked them and got more healthier then he would be misusingyour product.
Did you just google for “crypto” and “terrorism”? This article, linked from the first one you pasted, discusses how terrorist aren’t using cryptographic tools, blaming ignorance:
http://vigilant.tv/article/1207
“Let me reassure you your fears are groundless, and your complaints, moronic.”
— Lindsey Naegle, The Simpsons
Did you just google for “crypto” and “terrorism”? This article, linked from the first one you pasted, discusses how terrorist aren’t using cryptographic tools, blaming ignorance:
http://vigilant.tv/article/1207
“Let me reassure you your fears are groundless, and your complaints, moronic.”
— Lindsey Naegle, The Simpsons
lmao, very nice catch!! I didn’t bother to check those links, until I now do.. 😉
fine, I’ll feed to troll.
>>How are cigarettes misused? You’re supposed to smoke >>them…That’s their whole reason for existance.
>Tell that to my brother, who died of lung cancer.
fastfood can kill too, heart attack just waiting to happen. No one smokes unaware of the health benefits, it was known as far back as the 1920s that smoking was dangerous for your health. Yet people still smoke. For what its worth, I am sorry to hear about your brother – my grandfather died of cancer as well, also from smoking. But he knew it was going to kill him, he’d smile and joke about it – he loved it too much to quite. He wasn’t young either, reasonably ripe age of 85. Lots of things can kill you, most of them are obvious – bad diet, smoking, drug use, etc. Look at how “successful” the war on drugs has been, I doubt making tobacco illegal will do anything but further fund illegal cartels. All our precious war did was make them richer and further fuel demand. Lovely.
Now, back to the original topic….
>I never said encryption should be illegal. The cat’s out >of the bag so to speak… which is also why SCO will have >trouble shutting down inappropriate use of their >technology, which they admittedly leaked themselves.
First, encryption. I’d rather have my online banking encrypted then not, does that mean I have some dark secret? Fuck no. And the earlier wiretap comment was silly, anyone with a packet sniffer can grab your password if its in clear text. FBI level eh? No. My kid brother, whom thinks he’s a hax0r, can do it. Encryption means my private information stays that way, and if my comp gets broken into my most personal info stays (hopefully) still secure. Things like financial information comes immediately to mind.
Now, SCO – geez, doesn’t anyone realize that Unix is a product of widespread collaboration? Besides, it was Caldera (now “SCO Group”) that started SMP support in Linux by donating a SMP mobo to Allan Cox as far back as 1994. Linux had SMP support *before* UnixWare! Theft? Hardly. Caldera was even a founding member of the Open Source Development Labs, a group whos specific goal is to make Linux Datacenter worthy. Now, under new management, they through a hissy fit ’cause their own products simply aren’t selling anymore. Boo hoo. The earlier BSD lawsuit embarassed ATT by revealing how much BSD code they themselves had borrowed in their own implementation, Unix isn’t a pure product of any one group and it never has been! If we were to heavily enforce IP “secrets” then lots of folks owe Berkley money for TCP/IP – ATT didn’t create it, but the readily accepted the code.
Feel free to correct me on both of these issues since I’m a server-only OpenBSD user and only own sun4m hardware.
Although, I find it surprising they haven’t already put Mozilla into their ports.
Mozilla *is* in the OpenBSD ports, it just isn’t very usable/stable/speedy. There have been static builds released that run a bit more smoothly IIRC, but it’s apparently slow and quite bloated (file size wise). Mozilla itself doesn’t even have/maintain an OpenBSD build, so if the obsd devs have managed to get a usable Mozilla going, that’s pretty damn good.
It works like FreeBSD in 2001.
AFAIK, the lack of UltraSPARC III support is due to lack of documentation from Sun. I don’t know how FreeBSD managed to get it though. Maybe they signed some sort of NDA (Obviously that creates problems when its an open source project though. Don’t know much about that whole area. IANAL
)
>Yet gun control reduces the number of murders…
Right. Do you honestly think criminals buy their weapons at legally established businesses? Hahahaha! NO! They buy their weapons via the black market. All gun control does is put the average citizen at the disadvantage. A background check *is* a good idea, but don’t be fooled into thinking it has thwarted criminals. Heh. Johnny Serial Murderer wanted to buy his rifle from Wal-Mart but was thwarted by the background check, shrugs and decides not to persue crime. Too difficult to buy a gun anymore. Right.
My ex (whom owns and sleeps with a gun, everywhere she drives she has it with her – legal in my state with a permit) has saved herself from attack at least two times because she owns a gun. Otherwise she surely would have been raped or worse. But the attackers are cowards, a girl with a gun is no easy target – they bailed.
Congrats to the progress of the OpenBSD team. I do hope SMP support progresses, and I’m very glad to see Mozilla will now run. Spiffy keen! 🙂
AFAIK, the lack of UltraSPARC III support is due to lack of documentation from Sun. I don’t know how FreeBSD managed to get it though. Maybe they signed some sort of NDA (Obviously that creates problems when its an open source project though. Don’t know much about that whole area. IANAL
)
I am so tired of people saying that OpenBSD can’t port to the UltraSPARC III because of Sun.
Sun has offered to give OpenBSD the necessary documentation, provided OpenBSD will sign an NDA for it. OpenBSD has refused, citing that an NDA would violate the project’s goals: http://www.openbsd.org/goals.html
It’s the typical Theo de Raadt “never meet other people halfway” attitude. So, they’re trying to do it on their own. Good luck to them I guess, but would it be so much simpler to make an exception to their overzealous morals and sign an NDA for the documentation?
If your society is down to a level where ordinary citizens need to carry guns to protect themselves it obviously failed at the project they call civilization. Really guns don’t fix the problem, better try to fix your society and lift it a little higher above the level of Afghanistan.
Most people in the civilized world don’t carry guns nor do they think there is any need to do so. It must be really hard to live in your little American world of fear.
>If your society is down to a level where ordinary citizens >need to carry guns to protect themselves it obviously >failed at the project they call civilization. Really guns >don’t fix the problem, better try to fix your society and >lift it a little higher above the level of Afghanistan.
Its not like we face daily criminal attack, its no where near as bad as all that. I’ve never been mugged, never had anything stolen, never been attacked, etc. But self defense is a basic human right, most criminals are cowards and the vast majority of the time simply showing that you have a gun does the trick. My ex has never had need to fire her gun (only during target practice). What if she didn’t have the gun during her attacks? Could you imagine waiting for the police during such a thing? How long would it take them to arrive? Ever since my city instituted gun concealment laws (with a permit you can carry a conealed gun) violent crime levels have fallen, not risen. Thats been consistently the case in other cities that have passed such laws. Washinton DC has the countries tightest gun control laws and some of the highest rates of violent crime. Coincidence? I think not.
>Most people in the civilized world don’t carry guns nor do >they think there is any need to do so. It must be really >hard to live in your little American world of fear.
I hardly live in fear, neither does my ex. Its simply a precautionary messure, one that in her case has saved her life. America does have a rather high crime rate compared to most of the west (italy maybe being the exception, I hear Rome makes most American cities look down right peaceful in comparison) but it has been in decline for the last two decades, popular press notwithstanding.
Finally, a society where only the police have guns is thus a police state. Lovely thought, isn’t it?
Just curious, if you do choose to reply to this – where are you from?
Yeah, i’m sure gun control is not all part of the reason that your murder rate is about 7 times higher than most other western countries, including the UK.
Encryption is a good thing. Privacy is a good thing. It’s in human nature to want those things. It’s also in human nature to miss use them. Deal with it.
This is terribly offtopic, perhaps this outa be my last post on the topic…buuut
I’ve read that ever since the UK gov took away the citizens handguns that their crime rate immediately rose. I certainly agree that in a perfect world such things shouldn’t be necissary, but they often are. My countries murder rate *is* too high, but arming oneself helps tremendously in keeping yourself from being a victom.
Also, I think its worth mentioning that the violent crime rate here has been dropping consistently since the late 1970s. Things *are* improving, NYC is now the safest large city in the nation – once it was the most dangerous.
Things *are* improving, NYC is now the safest large city in the nation – once it was the most dangerous.
Sorry for making it even more off-topic, but wouldnt 11-S count as a special circunstance for that?
Guns are for two things (well, three if you count entertainment – and then I suppose there is always hunting), protection and to ensure your liberty (the second being the most important reason to own a gun). Guns are part of the checks and balances built into the government system in the US (although most have forgotten that fact).
Guns are part of the checks and balances built into the government system in the US (although most have forgotten that fact).<p>No wonder most have forgotten that: guns never have been used for that purpose. Any group that took arms to check and balance (protest, contest) had been crushed by the army, the police, some militia, or whatever.</p>
Habits!
Everyone needs security on their computers; I don’t see how you can argue that the only people who should be using a secure system and encryption is the governments.
Access to internet data:
1) Get yourself a packet sniffer so you can read any data gram sent over the network segment your connected.
2) The administrator of every e-mail server can read any e-mail that passes through his server.
Things needing security:
1) All online purchases. I don’t want anyone to get my credit card number/checking account information so they can use them to make purchases without my permission.
2) Banks communicat over the internet. I don’t want anyone to sign-on to my bank and access my accounts.
3) Direct Deposit transactions are handled over the internet. Thus a company builds a file containing the checking account information of every employee signed up and dumps the data across the internet to the bank. The companies user/name password is also sent in this file; thus, I could just sniff the headers, create a modified file, and transfer file from the companies account into my account.
4) Wire transfers between companies/banks and banks/banks are also handled the same way as the Direct Deposits.
5) Child care case information and garnishment payment infromation is sent through the banking system and is then routed to the courts system.
The best thing to do to keep criminals off the net would be to just unplug eventhing and disband the network. We should also destroy the telephone system since they use them also. We’ll also have to remove the TV systems; it seams that they’ve used TV broadcasts in the past to relay infromation. While we’re at it we also need to destroy all radios since they are used all the time to transmit information.
Welcome to the year 1500 where criminals had to send people from location to location phyically… Be we can fix that also; for now on no one may travel between cities with-out written permission from the government. If that doesn’t stop them, then we’ll need to start tracking everyone’s every move so that once we find someone who breaks the law we’ll have a list of everyone he has talked to and where he has been so we can get his cohurts!
“Yet gun control reduces the number of murders… ”
They did this in DC a while back. The murder rate tripled. Most evidence seems to prove the opposite. When reading that stuff, it helps to actually go to the back where they site the studies and go find them. Often the studies are only there to give some legitimacy to the quotes and in fact prove the exact opposite.
The need to carry guns relates to much more than the society. It has nothing to do with Afghanistan, crime, or civility of the populace. I carried one because I A) drove an armored car and B) lived in a neighborhood with lots of small children and there were large dogs roaming around. I wanted to have something that might save those kids’ lives on the odd chance a dog attacked them, something much more useful than my fists. Something most gun control people never even stop to consider.
Cigarettes are the ONLY product on the market that I am aware of that “when used as directed” causes harm to the user AND those around him/her. Cars do not harm the operator or passengers. Guns do not harm the operator. TVs do not cause harm to the user ( perhaps it drives down the IQ ).
Back onto a more useful topic…
The need for encryption goes far beyond something as stupid as “I have nothing to hide”. If you have nothing to hide, perhaps you’d be willing to renounce those rights granted to you under the constitution or its ammendments? After all, you have no need of them since you have nothing to hide.
I’m sure that lots of other countries have laws and governments that make them feel all nice and fuzzy too. Perhaps they have nothing to hide?
I’m sure a college buddy of mine, the one who has a convicted criminal posing as him every time he’s arrested, has nothing to hide. Afterall, it’s not like he GAVE out his private info to allow identity theft. If you’ve got nothing to hide, why don’t you post your name, address, mother’s maiden name, and your social security number? While your at it, please include the common answers to the security questions ( pet’s name, favorite color, etc. ).
Your bank shouldn’t be using encryption either. I’ve seen how well the anti cracking laws have worked around here since my brother’s girlfriend’s machine gets cracked every so often. I think I’ll keep up my encryption and firewall thank you very much.
Poor americans
Back in 1970-80 in USSR alsmost nobody could have gun,
but at the same time little girl could pass big city during
night and donot afraid being killed or raped. So there is domething wrong with your system.
p.s. For crypto-troll i could not believe but seem people
start to think that open source system widely used by terrorists. Or that pirates give money to terorists also.
Just little bit brain cleaning and people are ready to accept
“new great ideas”
>>>>>>>>>>”I don’t understand how encryption helps in this case. Even if not encrypted, no-one but the FBI with a wiretap order can obtain the information anyway, and I doubt they’re interested in trade secrets.”<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Your such naive fool. Ever heard of industrial espionage ? Companies like 3M keep all their trash dumpsters locked up for a very good reason ! Just like they keep a high level of encryption on their servers that they keep connect to the net.
>>>>>>”Yet gun control reduces the number of murders..”<<<<<<<
NO IT DOES NOT ! Gun related crimes and crime in general in England have been on the rise ever since they outlawed guns over there.
“Unless you’ve got something to hide from the law… ”
Hey you are right ! So let’s put a government camera inside everyone’s home bedroom and make sure that they are not watching kidde porn or having anal sex which is against the law in some states. Here you’ll be the first one okay ! Since you have nothing to hide right ? Or better yet let’s give everyone a anal cavity search in the airport to make sure they are not carrying any bombs or box cutters. If they refuse they must be criminals right ? Dude get reality check ! The desire to be left alone and to have privacy and security is NOT criminal in nature ! Man you sound like freaking Big goverment loving liberal !
>>>>”Tell that to my brother, who died of lung cancer.”<<<<<
Well he can only blame himself for not quitting or bothering to read the warning label on back of every cigarette box !
When Theo de Raadt and his team set a goal for their project, it was because they wanted to work according to given policies, instead of sailing in too many directions. Striving to attain this goal is only normal, not the proof they’re stubborn.
When de Raadt asks for the UltraSPARC documentation, I guess he just needs the information that will enable him to implement features only found on that CPU. He doesn’t asks Sun to provide him with all the detailed schematics and know-how so that OpenBSD can become a chip manufacturer.
On the other side, Sun has all the rights to deny that request. However, it’s probable they closely monitor the progress made by various open source groups that have a Sparc version of their OS. Therefore, maybe in the long term, Sun will benefit from improvements made to OpenBSD.
First of all WTF does gun control have to do with OpenBSD???
Second…it’s a proven fact that gun control increases the rate of violent crime…just because something’s illegal doesn’t mean it’s impossible to acquire…know anybody that’s ever smoked pot? smoked crack? sniffed cocaine?
newsflash…gun control just means criminals will get their guns from the black market and not buy them legally…not pay tax…i mean if someone’s gonna kill someone the government might as well benifit a little from it, right? :-P…
but on a more serious note…gun control is stupid and will not prevent murder any more than banning crypto will stop terrorism