In the latest of his legendary keynote stage shows, Steve Jobs kicked off Apple’s WWDC this morning in San Francisco by showing off the company’s speedy new aluminum G5 desktop Mac. But while listing the new machine’s impressive specs, Jobs left out a related, eye-popping statistic: Business Week columnist Alex Salkever dropped the bomb last week that next year, “Linux should pass Apple in market share for desktop operating systems on computers.” , slate.MSN says.
Elsewhere, a recent study of Linux use inside corporations by the Open Source Development Lab (OSDL) and the SDTimes reveals a broad use of Linux, but also shows that just a third of those companies have adopted the open-source operating system as a corporate standard computing platform.
The question is, where is the Linux marketshare coming from? Former Apple users? Windows desktop users? Windows server users? Or Unix workstation or server users? If Linux emerges as a viable and popular workstation OS, it’s likely to bump into OSX in the workstation market in the future, but Apple has little history there. I see that most of Linux’s growth has been at commercial Unix’s expense, and a little bit out of Microsoft. The biggest danger to Apple is having Microsoft absolutely dominate and use its embrace and extend to make Mac users suffer while trying to view Win-only web sites and exchange Win-only files, etc. Linux’s popularity will make that much harder for Microsoft to pull off, thus saving the day for the Mac user.
Apple might get hurt, but not by linux. What do you think? Is someone going to spend all that money to buy a macintosh box just so they can put Linux on it? Or is somebody who wants a shiny, beautiful, apple box going to change his mind and go with linux box all of a sudden? I don’t think so. OS X is a lovely system all by itself.
What I would like to really see is:
1. Apple and Linux both getting more desktop share. Its about time Unix did something good for the desktop. If Apple can manage to climb back to about 15 % of the market, and if Linux can miraculously get about the same figure.. we should have some kind of competition once more on the desktop front.
2. I would like to see Apple and Linux co-operating on the Applications Front, especially as regards Office Suites. The linux compat layer on the up-coming panther is a great development.
3. Is apple trying to get into the server market? Instead of loading OS X on the Servers, apple should consider loading them with Linux instead! That way, they can focus OS X on the desktop.
doesn’t surprise me! Apples are too damn expensive…
the dif is price… people can tr free things easily iA but for something expensive people need to think properly b4 making
investment…
I was thinking about buying one of the g5s BUT, i was very very surprised at the price difference between us and uk
Compare the prices in the UK and USA…
The top model –
•2999 dollars in USA
•2299 pounds in UK (3,833.52 USD)
It should be ~1800 pounds!!!
They are overcharging sooo much!!!!!!!
• ~833 dollars more expensive!! Is there a way to order from USA to UK?
And why dont people complain about this?!?
Does apple really want to increase their marketshare, if so why such rediculous prices for different countries??
Linux might be getting more growth than apple, but it will definetly benefit apple as more and more opensource apps become availble for osx.
For example with the qt license, a lot of kde apps will start appearing on the mac. So I think as linux developer base expends, so will OSX and both platforms will benefit.
OSX would be for people who like nicely package software with big shiny buttons and linux for the the most cost-sensitive customer.
Did you take into account any tariffs in the UK on computer goods from the US?
As far as I know, there is no Customs tax for importing computers into the UK…
I think that people looking for Unix capability on a new machine in the mid to high range will be foolish to not strongly consider Apple. Whether at home or in the office, if you’re going “switch” from Windows, the “pain” will be the same to either Apple or Linux, and I think that head to head in terms of value and support on mid to high end hardware, Apple does pretty good.
Where it will really become interesting is if/when Apple starts getting a laser focus on office productivity and start looking at that market versus the creative arts professional or home user.
Apple already plays well with others in a diverse, heterogenous network, and Panther seems likes its going to get even better at integration.
I would like to see Apple pay more attention and come out with a more competetive office suite, however. Something that will essentially stop the fear about Microsoft killing Office for the Mac. Knowing that MS isn’t going to be able to pull the rug out from underneath will give corporate customers a better sense of stability.
Linux is very good in the “recycled” PC market. While some enthusiasts et al are getting Linux specific PCs, most are buying Windows PCs and then dual booting Linux. It’s “cheap” in terms of licensing to put Linux on elder hardware, but I don’t think that anyone ghosts Linux onto the corporate net and feeds it to workstations.
Where you won’t see Apple and perhaps better see Linux is in applications where the PC is no more than a sophisticated tool like the telephone. The Mac will do well for knowledge workers, and general purpose office tasks. But for something like a call center with very specific demands, bulk PCs built to spec running the application (and pretty much only the application — telemarketers don’t really need IE, for example) will fit the bill better than the Macintosh.
Apple still really needs to come out with a headless Mac Slab machine, I think. Companies can buy them by the pallet and reuse current USB keyboards, and mice and, especially, current monitors.
The cheap WalMart PC’s may be a decent value, but after the sale the users aren’t going to find much that they can get boxed at CompUSA and load into their machines.
Apple is gaining momentum. Their new machines are fast and competitive. They’ve cleared the raw performance hurdle that many saw, and they’ve got top tier applications available. Their user experience is just getting better and better. Come out with a more business friendly machine and people will take notice.
ok, where is MS-Office for linux?
are dell and hp selling linux desktops with full support?
Linux as a desktop OS still needs a lot of work. although I see Apple AND linux complementing each other. both as ~unix~based solutions for two completely different markets.
The vast majority of Linux users are running on x86 hardware. How could this possibly hurt Apple´s sales?
I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. – Charles Babbage
Though I’m sure Linux will get a bit further on the desktop than it currently is, but not much further? Why? Because the Linux community is not interested in standardizing on anything (especially DEs), which APple has done .. that’s how Apple has made Unix into a viable desktop OS, NOT by offering 11 window managers, 3 office suites, 5 web browsers, 8,000 console mail clients, etc.
Though there’s nothing wrong with Linux per say, unless it’s willing to dumb down ‘AOL-style’, a mass-market OS it will never be.
The problem with this column’s argument is the idea of what “market share” actually means for companies operating on a given platform.
I’m not knocking free Unix systems, but let’s face it: the argument that Mr. “??” made back there, “the difference in price,” is a double-edged sword. Let’s assume the Slate analyst is correct. If I’m a commercial software developer, is it more advantageous to me to be on a platform with x users who have spent money (some might say a premium amount!) to use it and who by and large have a track record of continuing to spend money on commercial applications, or a platform with 2x users who by and large have chosen that platform because of the preponderance of free software (both ‘free as in beer’ and ‘free as in speech’ in this case)? More users on a platform does not automatically equal more income for developers on that platform.
Having said that: despite the Slate analyst’s assertion to the contrary, I’m dubious that Linux is really eating into desktop share rather than the server space. The efforts of Lindows notwithstanding, Linux is still mostly in the domain of people who are comfortable with traditional Unix systems: server administrators, whether professional or hobbyist, and those who want, for whatever reason, to run a Unix workstation at home.
Sure. When price is the only object, free beats everything else. And “price is the only object” has helped Wal-Mart get to where they are today. But you won’t find many people who buy everything at Wal-Mart, because sometimes price isn’t the only object.
But while listing the new machine’s impressive specs, Jobs left out a related, eye-popping statistic: Business Week columnist Alex Salkever dropped the bomb last week that next year, “Linux should pass Apple in market share for desktop operating systems on computers.”
Jobs: One more thing… Here we have the fastest PowerMac… neigh, the Fastest computer ever built! The Dual 2.0 Ghz G5! It really “kick’s ass”! But alas it is all for naught as some Joker at Business Week speculates Linux will pass us by on the desktop…. (Single tear rolls down cheek from corner of eye) We did our best folks, but its time to pack it up and go home…
Yes Eugenia, I just don’t see how Steve could have left out that “EYEPOPPING” statistic… I sure know I was holding my eyes in their sockets when I dared to think about the fact that Linux is compatible with nearly 100% of the worlds computers and OS X is compatible with about 4%. I mean surely Linux is in no position to out-seat OS X on the desktop with numbers like that.
Come on… If this was news you would have reported it when the comment was made (Last week) not today when Apple releases their new G5. You even draw a faulty conclusion that Linux holding more Desktop Share is Worse for Apple than it is for Microsoft, when I know for certain that Linux is not stealing users from Apple, it steals them from other places like Microsoft, so how is it bad for Apple when Microsoft loses customers?
-Jason
with a several commodity priced x86 boxes running freebsd or redhat.
i’m all x86 right now….but the dual 2ghz g5 has got me drooling.
>> Because the Linux community is not interested in standardizing on anything (especially DEs), which APple has done .. that’s how Apple has made Unix into a viable desktop OS
>>
Apple has had a viable and standardised desktop OS for how long? They basically started the race before Microsoft, but look how far Microsoft has left them behind. Look how cute OS X is, and look how it still failed to garner market share for apple.
My brother, Apple hasn’t just stagnated, it has actually retrogressed. I would like to see it make a huge comeback, but, trust me, they ain’t gonna do that by hawking $3000 machines. We geeks are excited by these things, of course, but what does the everyday market care about dual-processor 64-bit computing?
I think the linux desktop will go much further than apple in the long run for many reasons.
1. Linux has great momentum.
2. How is Apple going to sell In India, Taiwan, Brazil, or Bangladesh??? How well is Apple even selling in wealthy Europe? In addition to other issues, Apple lacks the raw logistics to handle the bigger market because of the elitist way it stubbornly ties its OS to its hardware in a market that has clearly adopted open stardards.
3. In the meanwhile, Linux empowers individuals, communities, nations, governments, corporations, whoever, to take their own computing life into their own hands. It can be American, Iraqi, french, British, congoleese, Brazillian, whatever. Look how those folks in spain just created their own linux desktop! Look what the folks in Brazil are doing. In the longer run, that sort of thing is going to be more important.
4. OS X is, by far, the better desktop system right now, but Linux is developing much faster. Sounds hard to believe, but in a much shorter time than you think, Linux will probably be a much better system, overall, than OS X.
But hey, this is not about Linux succeeding where OS X is failing. Personally, I would like to see both Apple and Linux grow into viable alternatives to Microsoft. This is about encouraging competition, and helping windows users get a better deal from MS. The more apple succeeds, the happier I am.
Sorry Eugenia, I didn’t read the Slate article before I posted and thought those absurd comments were yours when in fact they MSN Slate propganda….
Apologies…
One thing to remember is Linux runs on many platforms, such as x86, PPC and Sparc. Apple runs on one narrow one. Linux should have more desktops than Apple by sheer mass.
You know, if Apple really wanted the market share, they could really have it easily by charging a _competitive_ price for their products. $3,000 for a 17″ (widescreen) notebook is absolutely ridiculous. My current computer cost me $350 plus a monitor. I don’t care about these “luxury car” Benz metaphors Jobs is throwing around these days, they’re overcharging.
God forbid someone actually _buy_ one.
This is farcical. Both this and the slashdot article have bought out the rabid Mac Zealots in droves!
I have used macs for years.
I dont like the current OSX interface. Period.
I dont wish to pay twice as much to own a new computer just because it looks nice and has a fancy interface.
Linux on the desktop works for me.
The Apple Tax just isnt worth it.
Owning the state of the art is nice for ppl who dont care about the bottom line.
And from where I sit I see precious little in results from Apple’s support of the Open source community. Apple seems to be doing alright tho.
david
This is farcical. Both this and the slashdot article have bought out the rabid Mac Zealots in droves!
I have used macs for years.
I dont like the current OSX interface. Period.
I dont wish to pay twice as much to own a new computer just because it looks nice and has a fancy interface.
Linux on the desktop works for me.
The Apple Tax just isnt worth it.
Owning the state of the art is nice for ppl who dont care about the bottom line.
And from where I sit I see precious little in results from Apple’s support of the Open source community. Apple seems to be doing alright tho.
david
quit frothing….this is a new shirt.
I found that in Canada the iMac is say 2799CDN$ vs. 1799USD$ in the states. Now that would have been fine say 5 months ago (and it was about that price too), but the Canadian Dollar went up relative to the USD, from ~.63 to ~.73. The prices mentioned are like exchange rate of 0.64, rather than 0.74 that it is now.
It is a ripoff, I would like to find a way around that. (Can I buy from the states and have it shipped here?)
>linux_baby:”This is about encouraging competition, and helping windows users get a better deal from MS.”
You’ve hit the nail on the head!!!!! Linux bashers: stopp trolling … In the long run your are gaining better and cheaper products.
Linux Advocates: Support your distro of choice by putting your money where your mouth is.
Apple supplies a different market segment than Linux or MS. Take Rollex and Swatch as an example or Rolls Royce and Ford, if you prefer. Althou theese products have a lot in common and serve the “same” purpose, they target different markets……
Then I switched to Linux full time. Then I bought a Mac and now use it 95% of the time, with Linux and Windows taking up the remaining 5% of the time. I’m not sure I’d have become an Apple customer had I not tried Linux. So take this for the anecdotal evidence it is, but I know a lot of former full time Linux users that are now full time OS X users. Even the key Perl developers use OS X!
Apple’s market share could be 0.01% and they could still have the same number of users and be selling the same number of computers that they are right now. A couple people mentioned that Linux is doing very well in poorer countries that don’t have Macs or Windows.
I think Linux and Apple are mutually beneficial at the moment, and I really wouldn’t be concerned to much with the opinion of a journalist for a business magazine when it comes to the computer industry. Software Engineers, Computer Scientists, Computer Engineers, are all much more aware of where the industry is moving, and what companies have the best resources and engineers. The public will always be a decade behind the industry… look at where your engineers are right now who are ahead of the curve. Linux has made substantial advances and inroads within the computer industry (I can even ask most people today if they’ve ever heard of Linux and they have… even if they don’t know what it is, which most don’t). Most people today don’t think Apple went out of business anymore. It took awhile, but the public is coming along. Pretty soon they’ll even be aware that they don’t have to use Windows, Linux is an operating system, and Apple has software (maybe 5 more years?).
I think both Apple and Linux have placed themselves on positive tracks for growth right now, and simply need to continue what they’ve been doing. I think Microsoft on the other hand has been limping along… they tend to appear in the media for negative reasons, won’t have a new OS until maybe 2005, and have forced many businesses to reconsider their licences. Apple has also at the same time been making immediate attractive offers to more industry savvy people, especially in areas like music publishing, Bioinformatics/Biotechnology (they even made a point in the keynote today of running DNA sequencing software), video editing (Pixlet, Final Cut Pro, etc), and developers. And stayed in people’s minds with aggressive advertising, and things like the iPod, Music Store, etc.
Linux is continuing to gain ground as it continues to make large strides in its development and continues to be pushed hard by companies like IBM. Any PR it gets is good for it (and most of it is good too), and it has an easier inroad against Windows since it runs on the same machine and is mainly free. You could almost say it spreads like a disease (although I don’t want to imply a negative connotation)… every new person who adopts it helps to push it to others… the more users the more rapid the growth).
If this trend continues I would expect the major players in the computer industry to shuffle around quite a bit, into this order: IBM, Linux, Apple, Dell, Microsoft, HP
But that’s a big if and a long ways off for the computer industry. Just look at how much changed from 1996 to 2003, or 1986 to 1995, and those weren’t even a full decade time span.
And I would just like to say I think people complaining about Apple overcharging for their products greatly exaggerate. Apple has competitive hardware at competitive prices… jump over to the OS X thread here and people are comparing the $3000 new PowerMac with $20,000 offerings from Sun, and for good reason. For people in Europe… if Apple could charge you what they charge people in the US they would… taxes on imported products and tariffs on some parts of products are extremely high in Europe… that extra $800 you see in a price isn’t profit for Apple. If you visit the US, buy a computer and go back to Europe, you’ll be hit with a huge import tax as well.
Did Apple not update their iMac pricing? I know their new laptop prices reflect the stronger Canadian dollar. Anyways to answer your question, I know a few people in Europe who have bought Apples in the U.S. and returned home. They’ve never had a problem obtaining service. Maybe you should take a trip down across the border and buy one or have a U.S. store sell to you.
The only thing that could hurt Aplle is the Yellow Linux become a better choice ofr G4 computers. I wouldn’t pay the price to have a Mac, Pentium 4 do the work faster, but te way I see it, if Yellow Dog can run the Linux application (which it can) there is no reason to spend money on Mac software, except the Microdoft Offie suite for Mac …
I think comparing Tag Heuer and Rolex would be a better analogy. Efficiency vs. luxury. Both are extremely well built, the Tag being probably a little more accurate, but you don’t get the kind of prestige (?!) you get with a Rolex.
You pay the Rolex Tax ™, which enable you to enter the elite, but the watch ain’t any better.
In this scheme, I think MS would be Casio
Poor quality, but full of features for the masses.
so you’d say linux is the “breitling” of os’s ? ;D
I don’t think it’s a coincendence you post this article on the same day apple releases a shitload of good news.
Anyways, as many people have already pointed out, Linux gaining share is nothing but good for apple. It means more apps that can run via X11 or now with QT. It means more open file formats and communication protocols.
Most important of all, it means a “mindshift”. If there are multiple competing OS’s and platforms, the public will not think there’s only one “choice”, windows. There’s multiple valid choices and they “should” work together. This is huge.
Mat,
It wasn’t my intention to compare Linux and MS with Swatch and Rolex w/- Apple.
Tag Heuer is an exellent whatch, but it does the same as Swatch or Rolex. Provided one can afford it, it comes down to emotions by choosing one product over an other.
The same w/- MS, Apple or Linux. But what counts is that there is competion and that MS feels it more and more for the benifit of the consumers! Don’t you think that MS had to improve their product since the uprise of OSS?
Why do I get the feeling that peeps who like Mac’s whatever there good/bad points wouldn’t be half as keen if they didn’t cost more then its competition.
Oh well,at least they will now be getting a decent puter for the dosh with the g5’s and wont have to worry about everyone else laughing at them behind there backs
“Linux will probably be a much better system, overall, than OS X.”
Umm. Sorry. Talk to me when this happens. Linux will take years to catch up to Apple in terms of operating system technology. Maybe even never.
Apple like software integration will never happen in Linux land unless really really strong standards are agreed upon. But the kind of standards I’m talking about would make distro’s pointless, since everything would be the same.
X windows needs to have a drastic api layer added for direct graphics rendering and hardware acceleration. It also needs something like RDP, where UI commands are sent instead of lower level primitives. Also, keep in mind that Apple is coming out with truley new features at a staggering rate. Many of them you probably don’t even know about. For instance, did you know that darwin gathers user statistics about what applications are started in a given system state? It uses these to preload binaries that are likely going to be started next. Apple built all of Darwin, Aqua, and all related technologies in the time it took GNOME to get to the state it is currently in. GNOME is still nowhere near Apples desktop system.
It just won’t happen. It’s a simple truth that money builds things faster than volunteering.
This is just MS attempting a little thing called “divide and conquer”. Pit Apple against Linux all the while advancing yourself quietly on the side.
Yes this may be real news but Slate is hyping it more than it needs to be. I for one will not go back to linux. I’d like the last few months of life it wasted back.
I have to agree here. I mean compare the two target audiences and you’ll see a big difference ! Apple users don’t mind paying through the nose for hardware. Linux users by there very nature are thrift minded and would not dream of spending $3,000-$4,000 on just for a freaking box ! It’s seems old Billy Gates is scared of what might happen ! A growing Linux user base heavily influenced by Stevie and the gang at Apple !
After all, its not like Linux is squeezing into Apple’s traditional niches like design. Maybe in a few years, but not anytime soon. The only area where Linux and Apple will bump heads is in competition for the workstation market. Even Pixar seems to be moving largely to Linux… I personally think that a world with Linux as no 1 (if such a thing would ever occur) would be far better for Apple then MS on top. Both OS X and Linux are very similar, both can already share apps – I imagine such a world would be happier for both then it currently is. Isn’t GNUSTEP (or whatever) somewhat similar to Cocoa? Objective-C is supported in Linux as it is. But regardless of it all, I doubt Apple should care. Aren’t they still growing market share, if not slowly? Apple’s not threatened, their niche is intact, and the Mac fans are as rabid as ever. I myself am looking at the G5s very hard…I may find myself with one before the end of the year.
When I say this, I don’t mean it’ll kill Apple. Rather, I’m saying Linux is the very opposite of what Apple represents. Think about it … Mac OS boast useability, Linux is worse than Windows (in terms of useability for the average non-techie user).
If anything, Linux is taking away from Windows, not Macs.
I’m been using one form of Unix or another since before there was Windows. I now use OS X almost exclusively. It’s truly the best of both worlds. My two reliable Linux boxes now run as headless web, file and database servers.
Linux is great for servers. OS X is great on the desktop. They work great together. Windows is good for nothing.
The last problem for the Mac OS X platform is speed and that has just been fixed by the G5. Thank you IBM!
Life is good.
While useability of Linux has gotten better, it is still missing lots of applications:
1. For the creative professionals – Photoshop, Quark, Final Cut Pro. Those who think the open source GIMP et al can compare are out of their minds.
2. For the home users – tell me, what in the Linux/GNU world can compare with iPhoto, iTunes, iMovies, iDVD? If you think they exist, you must not have played with the iApps.
3. Games on Linux? Moooo
4. Development tools as awesome as Project Builder and Interface Builder?
OS X can do everything that Linux can do while the reverse is far from true. OS X is what I have always wish for Linux to be.
As others have pointed out, it is just Microsoft trying to cause problems for Apple and Linux by turning them against each other. Only Microsoft will profit from an Apple-Linux conflict. “By deception thou shalt do war.”
In actuality, Apple and Linux have much in common and will be allies for years to come. Each platform will provide interesting new features and different ways of escaping from the evils of Microsoft Windows.
The G5 is a new foundation for Apple, similar to the original move to PowerPC. The troubled years with Motorola as the CPU supplier are in the past.
And the G5 and Panther will amazingly successful as people are tired of the Microsoft Windows and afraid of Microsoft’ Orwellian spyware systems.
A.K.H: “Apple built all of Darwin, Aqua, and all related technologies in the time it took GNOME to get to the state it is currently in. GNOME is still nowhere near Apples desktop system.”
A.K.H., your point about GNOME is just not true since Apple did not start from scratch to build MacOS 10.0. It didn’t write the kernel, it didn’t write the API’s (though it did rewrite and integrate some), it borrowed heavily from FreeBSD.
As far as the whole situation goes, I think that it may be possible that Microsoft will remain at the top for a long time because Apple seems to enjoy catering to a small cadre of fan-users (no offense intended) whereas there is so much baggage in the open source Unix movement that only a company with oodles of cash and the appropriate motivation could make the changes necessary to fix things. Free Unix is still missing the following things:
* Easy package installation, with statically linked libraries.
* File managers which shield the scary portions of the filesystem. They don’t need to be destroyed, just covered up.
* Good implementation of ACLs. The idea that root can control everything is not good.
* Unified backends among the major apps. You still can’t paste a Web image from Mozilla & friends into KWord, etc. This is quite pathetic but hopefully the situation will be changed. KDE and GNOME don’t even use the same directory for their Desktop folders (has this changed?)
* Themeing will also have to apply universally as well. There needs to be a plugin-type API so that developers need only write one theme. A uniform pixmap specification could also work to keep things accessible.
* Better Windows compatibility.
One more comment: I believe that Linux will surpass Apple as a gaming platform within 2 years. It’s so much easier to port your graphics code (esp. OpenGL) to Linux than it is to go to the PowerPC.
When comparing US prices with European ones you have to take into account that US prices don’t include VAT. That should bring prices closer together. But Apple computers are still more expensive over here.
Another thing that Free Unix needs is the ability to write to NTFS partitions. ACLs on NTFS would be nice too but that might take a while. I wonder why this isn’t a higher priority for Linus & co.?
it’s called GRsecurity and SElinux.
[1]gentoo-hardened and to some extent hardened-debian use these.
[1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened
and as far as windows compatability, it isnt that they do not try, but reverse engineering is a veritable freckled arse as far as memes goes.
Windows conectivity is more interesting but it would be nice of microsoft to open up their fileformats a wee bit more.
and static libs, no thanks. filesize being the issue for me.
package manager, oh please.
filemanagers, working on usability, will get better, patience is the key.
Linux and Apple need each other. Linux needs Apple to help it through the ‘ease-of-use’. Apple has proven to everyone what Unix can really do and that’s given Linux a big boost. Apple needs Linux to increase its market share, if the two become synonmous (i.e. Linux becomes poor mans OSX) then people who love Linux are going to want OSX and people who love OSX are going to feel comfortable in the Linux world.
That’s what needs to happen with apps to. Apple needs to lend Linux its hand and pull it up with it. Encourage a few apps over to Linux when they’re being developed on the Mac. Work on OpenOffice and make OSXOffice just a supped up version of OOo.
Only together can Linux and Apple bring MS down to size.
Since 1998, we can read everywhere, everyday “Linux comes to the desktop”. Last Google ZeitGeist: Linux share is still 1%. And Google is a Linux shop. I am pretty sure that in 2008 we will be exactly in the same situation, except in the server area where Linux is eating Proprietary Unix.
And in 2008, we will read comments in Osnews saying that “Linux will be everywhere tomorrow”.
From dreams to reality…
“Last Google ZeitGeist: Linux share is still 1%.”
How do they count? Are those figures reliable? I’m just asking because I find 1% Linux market share a little too low. Anyway, I think Linux on the desktop is improving quite rapidly. Apple is too expensive for me, although i have to admit that i’d love to call a Mac my own.
Apple is very innovative, something MS can’t claim to be, if they’re honest.
Market share. After having played around with AMIGA, Windows, LINUX, OS2Warp, and finally OSX, I have learned something.
Stop listening to the commercials!!!!!! Everyone does NOT have to use the same OS!!!! All we need are open data formats html et cetra.
If all data formats were open, then we don’t NEED to use any specific OS. That is why microsoft is always changing their data formats, to include HTML!!!!!!!!!!!!! MS Office is their EVIL weapon, not windows. An OS is harmless (unless MS Office becomes a built in Windows app like IE).
dan
A.K.H., your point about GNOME is just not true since Apple did not start from scratch to build MacOS 10.0. It didn’t write the kernel, it didn’t write the API’s (though it did rewrite and integrate some), it borrowed heavily from FreeBSD.
And the gnome team’s only making a desktop environment for a prexisting kernel and windowing systen, so what’s your point?
One more comment: I believe that Linux will surpass Apple as a gaming platform within 2 years. It’s so much easier to port your graphics code (esp. OpenGL) to Linux than it is to go to the PowerPC.
What’s your basis for that? I’ve never seen anything to suggest that porting to Apple is any more or less difficult than to Linux. I’ve never seen anyone even really compare the two for game porting. Apple’s not really that much difference and really as long as they’re not using Direct X it’s not that huge of a problem. I mean look at loki games. They may have flopped but their ports were really good. And thanks to SDL VERY cross platform – INCLUDING PPC. Even Neverwinter Nights is coming out roughly the same time for both Apple and Linux. It took a while to get it on both, but Apple’s is even slightly more complete with the ability to play back video. Something they couldn’t get to work in Linux yet.
Linux should pass Apple in market share for desktop operating systems on computers.
Apple is selling hardware that runs Apple’s own operating system. Its not selling operating systems to any other manufacturers.
Linux will well pass MacOS market share, but it will take it from Windows. People buy Apple because of the complete product design, not because of the OS that is just a part of the package. The concept of Linux is much closer to the concept of Windows than that of Apple.
I too think Linux will take it away from Windows. Windows has lenty of room to shrink. Not that Macs are back in the ball game with the G5, they should at least hold there own and perhpas make some progress as OS X continues to mature and add features. Gotta get a real entry model in there hough.
If Apple continues to become like an American Sony, in effect becoming a high end electronics company, the market share stuff may become moot.
1) The PowerMac ISN’T a desktop, it is a workstation. There is a BIG difference between the two.
2) People who buy Mac aren’t going to touch a PC with Linux until they have access to all the applications they currenty run on the Mac.
3) This article would have ONLY been valid 1 years ago, today with the IBM-Apple alliance, it is no longer valid,
Anyone who thinks Linux is even close to OS X on any level needs to have his head examined. Whatever compelling reasons there were for sticking to the x86 platform were stomped, crushed, and burned to ashes when the G5 was introduced. Check out the laundry list of tech in this thing:
PowerPC 970 – Gigahertz for gigahertz faster than anything put out by AMD or Intel plus 64-bit
Serial ATA
DVD-burner STANDARD
AGP 8x
PCI-X
HyperTransport – 1 GIG! Frontside bus
I haven’t even gotten to the software. Even Microprocessor Report is stating that the G5 is superior to anything on the PC platform by a WIDE margin. The thing trounces dual Xeons and a 3GHz single processor will probably be at least 50% faster than the fastest x86 and god knows how much faster in SMP. This thing is a MONSTER! Anyone who thinks x86 is even in the Mac’s league right now isn’t paying attention.
There are no tariffs on computer imports, the extra cost is the fact that Apple hasn’t adjusted their pricing for the increase in value of foreign currencies against the the US dollar.
My Casio G-SHOCK is older than some of the posters to this discussion, please don’t compare Casio to Microsoft. A Japanese student I met at college was telling me that mine–in the extremely abused state it’s in–is worth at least $400 in Japan. That was a several years ago, so I expect it has appreciated some.
As far as watches go, Microsoft are the ones for people too cheap to buy Casio. You know, the ones that can’t even keep time for a day.
1. Linux has great momentum.
So does tree hugging, folk dancing and bongo playing. Whats your point? there is no momentum in Linux, just alot of hype, hot air and promises. Tell me ONE thing IBM has done out of the $1billion to bring Linux closer to the desktop? heck, they own Lotus and neither SmartSuite or Notes have been ported yet. Doesn’t that tell you something.
2. How is Apple going to sell In India, Taiwan, Brazil, or Bangladesh??? How well is Apple even selling in wealthy Europe? In addition to other issues, Apple lacks the raw logistics to handle the bigger market because of the elitist way it stubbornly ties its OS to its hardware in a market that has clearly adopted open stardards.
– Apple does have the logistics, they seem to suffer from a US centric management who can’t grasp that there is another 5.7billion they can aim for.
– Apple is based on openstandards. Just look at the PC market, a mish-mash of different components held together by a proprietary operating system. With the Apple system at least you know the whole thing will work together nicely unlike the mess a wrong combination of PC hardware can cause.
3. In the meanwhile, Linux empowers individuals, communities, nations, governments, corporations, whoever, to take their own computing life into their own hands. It can be American, Iraqi, french, British, congoleese, Brazillian, whatever. Look how those folks in spain just created their own linux desktop! Look what the folks in Brazil are doing. In the longer run, that sort of thing is going to be more important.
Please, less religion and more facts. Less emotion and more analysing.
4. OS X is, by far, the better desktop system right now, but Linux is developing much faster. Sounds hard to believe, but in a much shorter time than you think, Linux will probably be a much better system, overall, than OS X.
But hey, this is not about Linux succeeding where OS X is failing. Personally, I would like to see both Apple and Linux grow into viable alternatives to Microsoft. This is about encouraging competition, and helping windows users get a better deal from MS. The more apple succeeds, the happier I am.
How is Linux developing faster? GNOME is already mature, but what holds back adoption is commercial software. Why don’t commercial software support Linux? because of its anti-business, anti-proprietary CORE of the community. If the vocal majority were pragmatic and willing to pay for software, comapanies would have no issues, however, when we have johnny cheap skates whinge because Xandros won’t allow them to download the distro for free or we have a wally say, “oh, CrossOver is a rip off because is it based on wine”, no wonder companies think twice. The Linux community will kill itself eventually. It neither needs Microsoft, SCO or someother entity to do it for them.
Mac expensive! well sonny, save up your money and then buy one. I am looking at buying a Apple PowerMac, but I don’t expect to instantly go out and purchase it, hence, I like most people will have to save up. If it means I have to save up for a little longer, so be it, then when I do receive it after making a small sacrefice, I will get the warm fuzzies that I own my very own Power4 based workstation.
Yes, I know, this sounds VERY old school.
Btw, anyone remember when they were young and did school banking? I think some New Zealanders here might remember it. Maybe some of these yongsters should learn about saving, and accepting that they can’t always get instant gratification when they want it.
Funny comparison Rolex and Swatch. Almost all Swiss watches are made by a conglomerate that has multiple brands. Both Rolex and Swatch are subsidiaries of the same company.
Rolls Royce is now part of BMW. Rolls Royce was always principally an aircraft engine maker rather than a car company. VW owns Bentley and Lamborghini. Fiat owns Ferrari and Maserati. Lotus is owned by Proton of Malaysia.
There is no profitable car maker in the world that makes only luxury cars. Mercedes is a diversified maker of aircraft, vans, buses and trucks. BMW is a major maker of both motorcycles and turbine aircraft engines.
Isn’t it obvious that Mac OS and Linux aren’t competing for the same marketshare? IME people buy Macs because they offer the most hassle free and elegant user experience, for some people that’s much more important than cost. Most Mac buyers I know are professionals who are happy to pay more to get a better experience than Windows. They tend to buy apps like Photoshop too, rather than using a cheap alternative or pirate software.
I find that the main reason why a lot of people are trying Linux is that they don’t want to pay for the latest version of Windows. Or they are techies who enjoy messing with config files and source code, who value the freedom of Linux.
Maybe someday Linux will offer everything Mac OS X does, then Apple would have a reason to worry. But as a desktop OS Linux is years away from being as usable as Windows XP. Despite it’s faults OS X is in a different league, I don’t think Linux will come close for a very long time. Linux has made a lot of progress in the last few years, but Mac OS X is a moving target and I think the usability problems in Linux will be very hard to fix while it’s so fragmented.
If you don’t like Apple just say it and stop
posting FUD about them. This is ridiculous.
Every week, it’s another 4 or 5 “why apple should
die” articles.
Is someone paying you for this?
The popularity of free operating systems shouldn’t be viewed as a threat to Apple (or Microsoft, for that matter). From the users perspective, this means they have more choices than before; they have different means of performing tasks with their computers. Is it really important for ordinary folks to know if Steve Jobs or Bill Gates have lost millions due to free software increased acceptance ?
It is valid to think about wider issues as Apple introduces new flagship models. I mean, what are the real issues for Apple, and how do these new systems change things?
I think the single most important factiod in the current desktop landscape is that the average sales price for new systems has fallen to (IIRC) $715. If that number is correct then the number of systems Apple sells at (or below) the average price is zero. Gaining a price/peformance advantage at the $3000 level is not going to affect the bulk of the market.
On the other hand, Linux is obviously playing well at the low end. In fact, it is staking out ground where other operating systems cannot (without special give-aways), in low end markets.
If Apple isn’t going to compete with Dell in the US, or with Linux in Malaysia, then realisticly we can expect a continuation of existing trends.
These new systems will provide a feel-good shot in the arm for existing Mac advocates … but they won’t change much beyond that.
Why do people always assume that computer users use ONE OS? Why does it have to be either Windows OR Mac OR Linux OR BSD? I use Windows XP, Mandrake Linux 9.1, RedHat Linux 8, OpenBSD 3.3, Solaris x86 8.0, and FreeBSD 5.0, and I’d use a Mac if I could afford it, which I’d run a dual-boot of OS X and Linux on…the point is, why choose, all these OSes have strenghts and weeknesses (yes even Windows XP!)
The end goal is the same for linux and mac: take marketshare away from Microsoft. It’s happening. It’s accelerating in speed. I don’t frick’in care of BeOS makes a comeback and kills the mac and linux – as long as Bill’s OS takes a hit that’s fine by me.
Personally, I love OSX & Linux, and run them both on PPC hardware.
Hmmm… Import duty to the UK is (I think) 5%, sales tax (VAT) is 17.5% …
$ bc
2999 * 1.05 * 1.175
3700.016
versus 38xx in the UK, not worth the hassle really. I’ve found Apples to be fairly priced in the UK vs. US over the past three or four years
The only danger you run into with Apple is that it so desparately wants to become MS. The more market share Apple might get the more they’ll become like MS. That’s just a given considering Apple wants to control not only the OS but the hardware as well. The OSX path ultimate leads to lock-in to a vendor potentially even worse than even MS.
Go, Linux! It keeps everyone honest and the field of competition open!
Why do people always assume that computer users use ONE OS? Why does it have to be either Windows OR Mac OR Linux OR BSD? I use Windows XP, Mandrake Linux 9.1, RedHat Linux 8, OpenBSD 3.3, Solaris x86 8.0, and FreeBSD 5.0, and I’d use a Mac if I could afford it, which I’d run a dual-boot of OS X and Linux on…the point is, why choose, all these OSes have strenghts and weeknesses (yes even Windows XP!)
Because a VAST majority of computer users DO only run one OS. MOST people get grumpy having to launch a new program much less boot another OS to get what they want done. MOST people consider the OS and the machine as a single whole.
If you look at a home PC used by human beings, and consider the software bundle that comes with, say, the iMac (photo and music management, email, web, quicken, and word processing) save for games and perhaps Photoshop Lite, most people would hardly have a need to buy any other software because the suite installed on the machine covers a wide area of applications. Throw in Office for those who move work to and from the house.
You know, you go to your folks house, they bought a PC with bundled software, they have the plethora of AOL, Earthlink, AT&T, MSN, etc. icons on their desktop. A stack of dusty CDs on the corner of the desk. They don’t know or care about OS’s. They don’t WANT to know or care about operating systems. They want to stick the key in the slot and put gas in the tank. They want it to no more complex than their VCR (the one with the blinking 12:00).
You use several OS’s for the same reason others have 1/2 dozen motorcycles in their garage. They like motorcycles. They like variety in motorcycles. They like to dabble and experience the differences. They don’t mind keeping the batteries charged, or fussing with the one that hasn’t started in 2 years.
MOST people aren’t like that. MOST people don’t even own one motorcycle, much less six.
Think about the trials and tribulations you have switching OS’s or setting them up. Take what little frustration they give you and multiply it by 1000. Those are the folks buying machines today, and those are the folks the manufacturers want to sell machines to.
The average user considering MacOSX does not even consider Linux. More likely than not they currently use MacOS9 or Windows. The majority of people I know that use Linux spend more time figuring stuff out or trying to fix stuff as far as the desktop is concerned.
Also when you put them side by side Linux is feature poor in accessibility of applications to the AVERAGE user. To the AVERAGE user the documentation and support for MacOSX is better. Even finding local technical assistance with a Mac system is easier, I am talking about talking with a himan being not problem solving from a listserve.
I don’t know how someone can make the comparison of Linux being bad for Mac. I guess somewhere out there, there are droves of MacOS9 and MacOSX users dumping G4s in the trash and heading down to WalMart to get a Linux box because of the wide commerical app support and the legendary UI. Its sounds stupid because it is.
Its more likely that people are defecting from Windows to Linux and find out that Linux is more trouble than its worth and move back to Windows or they start looking at Mac which is much more realistic.
It depends on where on the world you live! Here in Germany/Europe is pretty unknown: i hardly could count two people having an (old) Mac-system, but somehow everyone has somewhere on the HD a partition with Linux on it! Ok, not everyone is using mainly Linux, but only from the people I know I could count some dozens.
Conclusion: I think many here are biased because of the different usage of OSes in the US, because outside of the US Apple is since a long time ago already dead, and i mean relly dead!
That really depends on your environment. How many Linux shops are there in Stockholm, for example? About as many as there are Amiga shops. Getting Mac support is easier, really. And the fact that someone has once installed Linux doesn’t make him a Linux user. I think that this is what Google’s Zeitgeist goes to prove. Certainly, a lot of people have installed Linux at one point in time, contributing to some optimistic market share evaluations. But they rarely use their Linux installation, if it even remains installed. The people who actually use Linux as their main desktop OS are mainly computer science students and system administrators. If anyone is keeping a Linux headcount, you may strike me from your list. I threw out the Linux machine.
Apple is the second in USA and maybe some other rich countries but here in Brazil and many countries Linux is the second in market. Apple hardware is very very expensive here because of the taxes.
Linux can’t be as sexy as MacOS X but is free (in every sense) and it runs on cheap hardware.
Given normal rounding procedure the 1% share reported by Google could be anything between 0.50 and 1.49 %.
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This means that the number of desktop Linux users could have tripled since 2001 or then again it could have declined – we just don’t know and the zeitgeist figures don’t tell us. The first case is consistent with desktop Linux going into expontial growth (which I believe likely) in which case Linux will surpass Apple in desktop share quite soon. This does not necessarily mean that Linux would be taking share away from Apple but from MS windows in competition in the x86 userspace.
Lets say that Linux does surpass Apple in marketshare it is questionable that big name companies will code for Linux versus Apple given that Apple customers have deep pockets and will PAY for software and services.
Linux users are not typically know as being big spenders, what will motivate a company like Adobe to code for an OS that has an inconsistant desktop and unpredicatable hardware configuration?
Google does not qualify this 1% number anywhere. So we are speculating on something we know nothing about.
As we know, Google receives major funding from the NSA and CIA. And it is in their interest to make it look like Linux has no market share to the consumer public. Otherwise people would stop and think. “Hmmm. Look at that Linux. It’s growing fast. Maybe we should check it out.” And more Linux users is the last thing the USGOVT wants. People who have IDEAS. People who want to help each other build stuff. People who like P2P. Yep, Linux is a threat. So even if the real Linux share was 5%, Google would still say 1% as they have to do what their masters tell them.
More productive
I have used a variety of platforms over the last 15 years and OS X is so much better value than the others. I get much better quality applications on OS X as well as am much more productive – no crashes, confidence in security, easy to use applications. I did graphic design on Linux in 1999-2000 when Mandrake first came out, but now I have surpassed what Linux can do.
Treated Badly
I decided not to use Linux as a second desktop not as much because of lack of applications, but because of the way people treated me when asked for help. My Linux Users Group has degraded to fighting over how wonderful Bush is or how terrible he is. I simply want something that works out of the box and where I don’t get insulted when I ask for help.
Before you complain about the cost of Apple’s computers, do a comparison with an #EQUALLY CONFIGURED# P.C.
So many PC prices are quite a bit lower because they advertise a bare bones box. Go through a Gateway or Dell configuration selection process and watch the price climb. PC people know all about marketing and pricing.
With an Apple you get an entire package of features that is quite a bit above the “barebones” in completeness of features.