Apple released the iSight, a $149 firewire camera, a few days ago. I’ve been using it the last few days with iChat AV (I was one of the lucky ones to receive an iSight for free at WWDC) and I must say that the quality is great, much better than my other $40 Creative WebCam Pro camera I have on my PC (using it with MSN & Y! on Windows and with GnomeMeeting under Linux). Just tonight though, I found a quite funny bug in it (in my opinion) and I thought I share this with you and hoping that engineers at Apple will read this (lacking a bugzilla at Apple’s site).So, the funny part is that iSight mirrors my image instead of showing the video “as is”. This is not how it supposed to work not only because none of the web cameras I used in my life did it that way, but also because it just doesn’t make sense to mirror instead of feeding the video directly. I discovered the problem when I saw that my “D&G” t-shirt was not viewed the right way (check the clipping in the screenshot linked below).
I sincerely hope this is a simple software bug (we should not forget that iChat AV is still beta software) however, I wouldn’t post this item here if I was sure that this was a simple, easy to fix, software bug. This might be as well a hardware bug, in which case, is a quite bigger deal for the manufacturers. I just don’t see this as a “feature” though.
Screenshot from the live video feed and a clipping from my iSight, and here is a screenshot of of the WebCamPRO on my PC. The pics are showing the mirroring issue.
BTW, did you know that if you are playing something with iTunes and an audio or video session starts, iTunes will mute itself and start playing again after you close your conference session? Neat!
Update: Apparently this is a known issue, and while Apple says that they know about it, most users don’t like the “feature” and they ask for reversing the video by default or via a checkbox in the preference window.
I did because of the opening of the folder behaviour after receiving a file through iChat. It’s annoying when you are messing with files on the Desktop then BOOM a windows opens up with the content of the Desktop and your download.
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ichat.html
Shouldn’t that title be red cause this is your own work?
Way to go for noticing that too, i hope Apple fixes that pronto.
>Shouldn’t that title be red cause this is your own work?
Yeah, but not really a feature article, more of a report really… I decided against it when creating the article.
>did ya send a bug report on the feedback page of iChat AV?
Thanks for letting me know, I will send the bug report now! I hadn’t notice that there is such a page. I did wander in the support pages but I couldn’t find anything relevant of a bug submission so I decided to post here instead. Thanks again for showing me that page, bug submission on the way.
Deffinatly an strange one. Even if its hardware though, I wouldn’t worry. The camera has updatable firmware.
Your comment may be more productive being on the apple discussion boards at: http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]@.4aaaf05…
It is not a bug its only flipped to you. The person recieving the video will see things properly. It’s done because mirror images are how you often see yourself, such as in mirrors. Of course, when in doubt chant the MS mantra ‘it’s not a bug, it’s a feature.”
A@ron
Wow Eugenia is a hot babe !
>Your comment may be more productive being on the apple discussion boards at:
I can not access that page right now.
>It is not a bug its only flipped to you. The person recieving the video will see things properly.
How do you know that?
>It’s done because mirror images are how you often see yourself, such as in mirrors.
I don’t think so. It is a bug in my book.
You can debate that all day if you want to, it is a bug. Not other camera does it this way, and they don’t suppose to do it that way.
Submitted.
This is a feature. This is very clever actually. Mirroring the preview of yourself allows you to adjust the camera and lighting easier. If you see the lighting needs to be adjusted, it is much more natural to reach for the same side of the monitor as the image shows. If you need to move into view, it is also more natural to move in the direction you see in the mirrored image.
Please… 😉
I’m scarred for life after seeing Eugeni’s picture!
Just kidding!
Actually it is nice to be able to put a face with the infamous Eugenia name.
The other person will see things more naturally with this “mirror” effect. For instance, hold up some writing and to you, it’s backwords. But, to the other person, they can read it properly.
Apparently it’s not a bug, but a feature, according to Apple:
” The image is reversed in your viewer window, but is not reversed for the person you are connected to.
Gayle
AppleCare Discussions ”
So apparently Apple doesn’t agree with you
I find this to be a bug, no matter what Apple says. This is not how the camera should be showing your video.
They should let you switch it as you prefer.
The way Job explained during the keynote was that it was a “mirror to make sure you’re all pretty and such” before the video is sent. Combing ones hair in a camera can be weird, but for some reason more natural infront of a mirror.
So in that sense, i could see it behaving like a mirror, rather than a traditional camera.
I think there should definitely be a option to switch modes. I could envision trying to show a hand-written diagram on the camera and being thrown off by having it flipped.
I agree that mirroring the preview of yourself is more intuitive. I had to work with a webcam for one whole semester where I had to continuously move around the screen and I never got the hang of the way webcams work. For instance, I find myself at the left edge of the screen and so I try to move back to the center of the screen, and intuitively I always move right which actually brings me further away from the center of the screen. But maybe this kind of behaviour is person-specific and Apple should put mirroring in as an option (if that’s possible).
I don’t know if your persistence is a defense mechanism, but this is clearly a feature. The person at the other end sees a regular picture.
It’s a lot easier to adjust your posture or the camera when viewing a mirror image.
Even if you think it’s a bad idea, it is at worst a feature that you don’t like. I, for one, think that it’s a good idea and it seems like Apple did it on purpose (I think that most people consider bugs to be *unintentional* problems).
I think it is a great idea. It is very natural, to think of it as a mirror. I don’t look at myself ever by a camera, but a mirror I use every day. Therefore I immediately “know” it’s me
. It is an improvement over the traditional way. Making it configurable? OK why not, but I think this is the better setting.
This has nothing to do with iSight, but instead is a bug in iChat AV. The same thing happens with any camera connected via Firewire.
I suggest you repair the subject.
Eugenia looks simular to my fiance hehe. which is not a bad thing
.
that camera is very clear nice images. wish i had one!
just cause no one else does it this way dosn’t mean its a bug. Apple is still around today because they stop and acutally THINK about the things they are making before they ship off the designs to the factorys.
There are a lot of things Apple does that the rest of the industry doesn’t do. is Not haveing every app monopolize the entire screen a bug? Windows does this…
you have such a noble look 🙂
You can switch it off, but thats the default
>You can debate that all day if you want to, it is a bug. >Not other camera does it this way, and they don’t suppose >to do it that way.
Ever heard of innovation? Or has MS’s monopoly finally overtaken to such an extent that different == bug.
If it is done via firmware, it means that Apple would need to flip over the video – which means more load for the Mac. Because if it is hardware, I’m sure it is an optical problem, the way the image is mirrored.
It’s not a bug for sure, but it is not innovation either. Check out M$ NetMeeting, you’ll see, first it gives an option on whether to mirror the image, second, the image is mirrored by default.
I tried both ways, and found out I liked the mirrored image much better than the straight image. I won’t appeciate it unless you see how awkwards the opposite is.
Same thing happens with my Sony Handycam. I noticed it as soon as I turned on iChat and thought “cool” not “bug”.
Obviously this is a Video Conferencing app not a video capture app and in such a configuration the camera will be pointed at the operator and mirror makes total sense. Obviously if you turned the camera around to film something else and used the computer screen as your view finder it would be awkward, but that is not the primary goal of Video Conferencing.
I have used webcams before that do not mirror the image (on windows) and every time I found myself drifting out of frame and needing to reposition myself, I moved the wrong way.
This is obviously a feature that Apple included after some thought about the right way to do video conferencing (I say this because its flipping the video of my handycam).
A bug would seem to be something that happened by accident and I just don’t see this as an accident.
I agree that a check box might be in order to disable this feature, but I believe Apple would be right to make the video mirrored to the viewer.
BTW, I checked and the video is *NOT* mirrored on the far end and the words on my BonePony http://www.bonepony.com T-shirt were readable by the person viewing my stream.
What’s that funny menu item that looks like a stack of paper in your menu bar next to the Airport icon?
It is CodeTEK Virtual Desktop. It provides virtual screens, get it from http://www.codetek.com/
The biggest problem with iChat AV is, that it isn’t possible to use “standard” Quicktime video digitizers. iChat AV needs this overprized iSight or maybe a full blown digicam to be usefull. I don’t understand why they limit iChat in this way.
did you try some others video app with isight ? (not many …)
for example gnomemeeting (which is in fink unstable)
is it also reverse ?
I have deleted Fink from my Mac, took too much space with the things I had in there…
Sigh! Eugenia, I do think that you’re right about many user interface issues. However, I do think that this is more intuitive. I hate the fact that I can’t mirror my El Cheapo webcam, and since most people use mirrors everyday, the way Apple has it is much more intuitive. I think you’re just being stubborn and not admitting that you’re wrong. 😐
Sorry, but this is not one of these times.
I _really_, _really_ don’t want my camera to mirror me. I want to see what the other person is going to see!
…Apple’s default mirroring is much more logical. I haven’t had a chance to play iSight, but the idea makes total sense. Some others have mentioned that NetMeeting had this feature off by default.
Eugenia, the least you can do is admit that it’s a feature, albeit, one you don’t like. I really doubt Apple would hand out hundreds of iSight cameras to WWDC attendees with such an ‘obvious’ bug, knowing full well that the hardware/software would be scrutinized.
you wonder why your cam of 150$ is better than your 40$ one?
I guess you get what you pay for …
So why the mac – pc comparison?
ROTFL.
In Firmware? So they changed the firmware of all other FW Cams, too?
This is a simple software feature.
Eugenia:
They dont have a bugzilla, however they do have a bugtracking system, though you need to reg as a developer for some reason.
https://bugreport.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/RadarWeb.woa
You should read that book your holding up, that way though, then you can truely say you read it from cover to cover =D
Is the whole point of your issue that using the mirror feature acts like a physical mirror (flipping), and not showing you as if someone were to see you?
Does it really matter?
last time I checked, bug meant a program doing something the coder did not intend for it to do. However, this is an obvious feature, and IMHO a fairly clever one. I know that pretty much anybody who uses a webcam for the first time has problems adjusting to the whole fact that it does not work like a mirror, eg. drifting off etc. This way, it’s like a one view mirror. So Eugenia, clearly a feature, even though you don’t like it. Maybe I’m taking this a bit too far, but I think many could consider the whole Windows platform a bug then, they don’t like the way it works, so it’s a bug
Basically, everyone here considers it a feature. It is not a bug. However, you could say that you find it “annoying that apple provides no feature like Microsoft Netmeeting to allow the user to choose whether or not to mirror the image.”
It is not a bug however, since it was *clearly* designed to work this way. In fact, you’ll notice it works this way from the pictures on their website. Just because “everyone else does it X way” does *NOT* mean it’s a bug. It just means “everyon else does it X way”.
A bug would imply that Apple designed it to NOT work the way it is working, which they did actually. It does not matter how you feel about it, or your opinion.
It is not a bug. It just doesn’t work the way *YOU* want it to.
This is a funny one. My only concern is if having it mirror you does help lighting and clarity?
it’s not a bug, neither a feature. It’s a conceptual error.
Apple likes to be close to reality and make you think you’re not using a computer but some natural/common tool. That’s a pretty good idea, but copying mirrors behavior was wrong.
Mirrors may be very common in our day to day live, but always have been a problem as it doesn’t reflect reality, but a inverted image of it. The primary purpose of a mirror is to show yourself just like someone else can see you. But unless you use a combinaison of mirrors, this can’t be achieve by a single reflecting surface.
Apple copied the basic mirror behavior and forgot mirror was a conceptual error of its own.
Bug may not be the right term for this issue, but there is a problem that Apple really should address. Other programs offer the “option” to mirror or not mirror. Why can’t Apple? The user should have a choice.
I don’t think beating Eugenia over the head for her decision is right. As she said, she does not like it. Alot of people like the mirror effect, but not everybody does. So she is correct in pointing out it should be presented as an option.
Remember this is beta software, not a final release. Considering the number of people asking for a way to disable the mirroring effect, I would be quite surprised if Apple didn’t provide you one.
Not a bug if you designed it to do that
Because you should see on your machine what the person at the other side will be seeing.
Then again, this is the company that excreted the one button mouse and really bad bad bad keyboards on the world at large…
I agree with some people earlier. Feature or no, undoubtably someone isn’t going to like the mirrored video (like Eugenia), so the solution is to have an option: A checkbox maybe.
I also agree with the fact that this “feature” could be using more processor power than somebody might want it to. I have some pretty big issues with the system requirements for IM software (AIM uses 12MB of RAM on my system).
Must you all critisize everything about the mac? i understand this isn’t a MAC site and all, but really, chillax. Mac is making big steps in the right direction, bias opinions like eugina(or whatever) doesn’t make the site look particularly great.. been reading for about a week, and most of the articles themselves are alright (with the exception of the MAC comments by site admins).. I’m not a mac user or a win/linux user.. (openbsd console -> my desktop OS), however i do really like what apple has done with their G5, any way you look at it, it’s a good box, and there is definetly room for further/future upgrades.. anyways, shh.
chillax.
take up coding and make your own operating system before you bitch at what Anyone is releasing.
Have a good day.
-anon/buh
so my lego usb camera works with capture devices that support quicktime using the macam drivers.
will it work with iChat AV?
i can’t try it myself right now.
also, will iChat AV work with pc users? i saw conflicting info on this.
I am currently using the open source phoneX. It works pretty well (connecting with netmeeting).
-hugh
I agree that the mirror effect is better. Steve Jobs did specifically state that the preview is there to make sure you look your best before you “call” or “accept a call” from someone. Since we are most used to seeing our mirror image in a mirror to do this, it only makes sense for it to be this way in iChat. But then it would be nice to have a choice for those who like a challenge.
One thing I do wish is that USB based webcams worked with this. Even at one frame per second it would be ok. Not everyone has $150 to spend.
It seems that if you have special characters in your users realname (like my Icelandic name) iChat crashes when accepting voice/video conference! I could fix it by changing my realname with NetInfo -> Users->Myname->realname (attribute) to something without special characters.
The mirror thing apple did is a great idea. I had to set my cam up to mirror just because it was easier for me to use it. Also the nice thing that apple did was reverse the image for your reciever person. anyway, great idea. I agree it should be an option to turn it off, but this would be safe as a default imo.
bug or feature, the isight sure as hell has better quality than the cam for the other screen shot!
for the price difference, it should be, but still, much better.
One of the reasons Apple went with Firewire webcams is because of this quality. USB1 doesn’t have the bandwidth to do smooth capture. You need to compress it to transfer it over USB. Then you have to compress it again to transfer over the internet. You get some huge artifacts this way, and a very crappy looking picture.
Looks like a quality camera to me and heck you got the thing for free.
Yes, iChat does work with other webcams. My wife’s ADS Pyro 1394 FireWire webcam (about $80 last Christmas) was absolutely plug-and-play.
Hugh Jeego
It requires that you use a FIREWIRE capture device. I’ve got a Logitech USB cam and the only thing iChat AV recognizes is the microphone built into it.
…Apple should either port iChat AV to Windows/Linux or get AIM on board with the new enhancements. Crossplatform video conferencing has always been an expensive cludge, not to mention many solutions have issues with NAT, etc…
It’d be really cool to be able to conference with all my colleagues, friends, family no matter what platform they’re on.