Arno Klenke has completed his work on the PCI and USB bus managers for Syllable. Not only does this simplify the internel managment of devices in Syllable, it also means USB UHCI support. The current implementation is a port of the Linux UHCI driver which has been re-written by Arno as a Syllable bus manager, and a native USB mouse driver. On other hobby OS news, SkyOS has some updates on SkyOS 5 while ReactOS can now run some simple Windows applications. IsComputerOn has an update on the OpenBeOS’ bootloader too.
Syllable gets USB Support; SkyOS, ReactOS, OpenBeOS Updates
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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So does anyone has a link to SkyOS license ? Never been able to find one.
So it has been nine days since I sent an e-mail to the SkyOS mailing list asking for the modified source to VLC and GRUB. The only response I’ve gotten has been on this site, from Robert, saying he was going to send the source out to me via e-mail.
And still nothing…
I highly suggest that Robert either start following the licenses he’s using, or remove any GPL software before the FSF gets involved.
Adam
Is that how the new SkyOS design will look (feature wise)?
Shadow looks fake and corners are rounded al’a XP with no per pixel smoothing whatsoever, my thought would just be do it right from the beginning rather then make it look like that now and improve it for another future version. As a GUI designer I’d guess that would put tight restrictions as opposed to what we saw in most GUI mockups.
Just my 2 cents.
What licence? SkyOS is proprietary, but freeware. If you ask me, it’s turning out well for them, too. SkyOS gets more interesting every release.
As for ReactOS, I have this to say: Very nice. Looks like they’re getting closer to replacing the core parts of NT4. The great thing about a project like ReactOS is, they don’t have to implement ever single driver, since they’ll be able to load wondows drivers. That should give them a good, wide userbase when it’s ready, and I *love* the idea of a free, open-source version of an NT-based Windows. All they have to produce is the core parts; you’ll be able to use the drivers that came with your hardware, etc.
How about you read for a change; the answer to your question is right there on the SkyOS site.
What licence? SkyOS is proprietary, but freeware. If you ask me, it’s turning out well for them, too. SkyOS gets more interesting every release.
I can’t imagine a closed-source freeware OS gathering that much support. Peoples are going to be relunctant to invest time and energy (and even money) on a software that is the sole property of one person. I’m not an Open-source zealot (heck, I run Windows !), but having the source around means nobody (starting with the author) can kill the OS.
True, but when your software is proprietary, your increased control allows you to more easily produce consistency and quality (in terms of usability and goals, anyway). This kind of thing is difficult to do when you “lose control” in an open-source project such as Linux. Though I agree that open-source software has much more momentum potential, its a choice best left up to the author of the software, and how he/she wants to direct it.
Mind you Linux as a development by a single person (Linus Torvalds) is a Kernel… and Linus still has much control over the Linux kernel. If Linus lead more projects for things for the OS (for example if Linus ran XFree86)… you’d probably see very similar control. OSS gives people the ability to fork a project, but almost always there is a single person or a body of a few who decide the final stuff that goes into official releases. It’s not as if any changes anyone makes to an OSS application just appear in the new source code on the website, they still have to go through someone in control.
Do You people have anything to do in Your life except posting the same thing each time SkyOS news are here? If You search for other SkyOS news on OSNews, and read posted comments there You’ll soon “discover” that “open source SkyOS” and “what type of license” was there EVERY time. Now think about that if i’m really annoyed by that, how much annoyed must be author?
Only person who posted here ok, is Adam K if Robert really didn’t respond yet. Still Robert has many things to do, and 8 days is not that much in this case (especially if You have code all over the place, and have to gather it, archive and send – it’s not interestning thing to do and it’s time consuming), also on SkyOS site You can see that there will be cd available with v5 – i can’t be sure, but i think sources will be available there (and on downloadable iso maybe? althought it would be better to have a choice between downloading “with sources” and “without”).
Have You actually read news post on SkyOS site, or just looked at screenshot? Maybe You should read before asking such questions?
Doesn’t SKYOS use a modified Grub as bootloader, Grub is under the GPL, and he hasn’t given out the source like he’s supposed to, which is a GPL violation, if the FSF is involved, they will probably sue him for it.
hey that reactos looks pretty cool, i might be trying it if they r able to develop it into a very usable environment…
i am just stunned by the ingenuity and creativity of some people; i mean, that is just an awesome project! My hats off to them…
I told you five days ago that I will check your mail and send you to source. Please be a bit more patient.
I compiled the modified GRUB 3 years ago. Additionally, I used a virtual VMWARE disk with Linux to edit/compile the sources. As soon as I have extracted the source from there you will get it.
Nevertheless, that’s already the second time you say you don’t get anything. For the next time, please wait a bit before complaining about this again and again. I have tons of other things to manage but I will try to fulfill your request with high priority.
ReactOS can now run Solitare! That means we have a open source OS capable to doing the work that millions do everyday on their MS operating systems at work. Hooray!
he he he.
(I know, I’m sure wine could do that long ago
Reread your GPL license. It says absolutely nothing about the time frame a developer is required to supply source code within. So long as the source code reaches you eventually (Let’s say before the end of the world) then there’s no argument available to you that he hasn’t complied with the GPL.
Brings up some fun ways to misuse GPL code huh :>
Very good work is being done to port key dlls from the WINE project over to Microsoft Visual Stdio. Once this work is done we can build them for Mingw and ReactOS.
Doesn’t SKYOS use a modified Grub as bootloader, Grub is under the GPL, and he hasn’t given out the source like he’s supposed to, which is a GPL violation, if the FSF is involved, they will probably sue him for it.
Umm isn’t GRUB a bootloader, what does that have to with SkyOS source code. SkyOS only uses it as a bootloader, therefore I don’t think he made changes to GRUB that need to be released to the public.
Just go get the source from the people who created it, and leave Robert alone. You know he didn’t have to tell the Internet community about his OS, but he did.
The GRUB homepage is here. Go sink your teeth into the source, and may the source be with you.
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub.html
I think I am wrong about it being a modified GRUB, because the GRUB FAQ says that it boots unix like OSes.
Also I didn’t read Robert’s comments above.
Sorry.
Get a grip. He’s one guy – he’ll email you the source code when he gets around to it – and that was by his own admission the other day.
What is your deal? You seem to have it out for this guy. Back off for crying out loud. Don’t you have anything better to do?
Oh, and since you are an editor here, feel free to censor me and mod this down.
Why not just put the source on an FTP? I understand that you don’t have to, but that way you only upload it once, and don’t have to worry about individual requests.
Im sure if you dont have the space,someone will give it to you, maybe even the official projects themselves (GRUB).
You know, there is something to be said for being responsible. If you’re going to use somebody else’s work, you should be prepared to deal with their license *before* you release the work to the public. If I used CNN’s copywritten images in my webpage, do you really think they’d accept “I’ll get around to it eventually” as an answer? Now under the GPL, one week really isn’t too long to wait (mail is the distribution method that’s required) but I don’t think it is wise to take such a dismissive attitude about all this.
I find it funny that people can get so worked up about one person’s hobby OS possibley violating the GPL. It’s not like Robert is selling millions of copies of his operating systems to major corporations.
Relax guys.
Congradulations OpenBeOS team on yet another great achievement. Good luck with all future endeavors [ so long as they relate to openBeOS :^) ] !
The law really has nothing to do with scale. Where does it stop? If its okay for one person to ignore the GPL, is it okay for a small mom-and-pop to ignore the GPL? What about a small business with a dozen employees? The law is, and must be, blind to such issues.
Just because you have to wait that Robert send you the source you’re going to crush him… hey you guy, calm down, he’s only a man doing a good OS. Uhmm too good for your taste maybe? Robert do a marvellous job for a one man os going to desktop, maybe it annoy you???
As for http://FTP... Robert explained last time that for now he didn’t want to do that since it’s hard to maintain up to date for him alone(not to speak about mirror and so on). Maybe does he prefer to program than to toy with silly that work one hour and not the other or at rate that gonna take him all time?
Still no one has read that his idea of themeable dll is really great! You’re a lot more after your licence than the SCO guys
iscomputeron.com – fantastic! Looks really great, polished. Best BeOS site(looks and functional design-wise) I have ever seen.
“Mind you Linux as a development by a single person (Linus Torvalds) is a Kernel… and Linus still has much control over the Linux kernel.”
No, he has not. Because anyone can fork it. Don’t like Linus his head, or his glasses, or his English, or perhaps his nose? Fork it! Don’t like Theo? Fork OpenSSH and see if you can do better.
The only argument i can think of is that it’s GPL, thus it needs to remain GPL. Uncool if you don’t want to release the code as GPL, it is. But you gotta remind that you are allowed to use the code from a lot people. Also, one can legally use GPL code for individual purpose without releasing code back as long as he/she isn’t distributing binaries.
BSD license (ie. OpenSSH, FreeBSD) gives more freedom regarding this. Which is i think not necesseraly better or worse. Depends…
“If Linus lead more projects for things for the OS (for example if Linus ran XFree86)… you’d probably see very similar control.”
Which control do you mean? XFree86 is even a more free license and while you’re at it XFree86 get’s a lot criticism these days. There have been talks about forking it because this… and, it is possible for people with the abilities to do so (and for those who don’t, or those who want to try).
ReactOS… i hope Software Patents won’t get in the way, and i think MS (and/or their lawners) will get some headache because of ReactOS in the future.
Hey, guys. We’re quite excited by the USB support you know. ReactOS has done something incredibly cool, too. Hello? Hello?
Oh, you’re all busy having the exact same GPL/SkyOS flamewar that always comes up whenever SkyOS or the GPL are mentioned and has been answered hundreds of times before? Oh well then, carry on I guess. I’ll be over here if anyone has any questions..
Get a grip. He’s one guy – he’ll email you the source code when he gets around to it – and that was by his own admission the other day.
You mean five days ago, not the other day. If you, or Robert, or anyone thinks that I’m impatient, just imagine how impatient the FSF is going to be when they come asking for the modified grub source.
What is your deal? You seem to have it out for this guy. Back off for crying out loud. Don’t you have anything better to do?
Have it out for this guy? Simply because I’ve posted a total of four comments to three articles that mention SkyOS. Overreact much?
Oh, and since you are an editor here, feel free to censor me and mod this down.
Wow… You can’t even tell the difference between someone who signs his name “Adam Scheinberg” and someone who signs his name “Adam K”. A little hint: I am not an editor on this site.
Adam K
Yeah, USB support is awesome. Syllable is progressing very well.
Btw, Syllable have DHCP support? I know that AtheOS doesn’t and I don’t remember if I heard that Syllable does or not.
Here’s the thing Vanders:
We’ve all come to expect miracles from the Syllable developers. As a result, when you guys deliver, it doesn’t get the attention it deserves.
In all seriousness, though, Syllable has made some incredible advances since you guys took the Atheos code base and started your work. So much so, that Syllable only bears a passing resemblance to Atheos at this point. Every week, you guys roll out drivers for more hardware.
Keep up the good work.
Adam K
Yes, Syllable has DHCP support now. Supports the vast majority of common consumer network cards too, now.
Man, in one swell news update, Arno Klenke has implemented full support for everything on my comp that didn’t previously work with Syllable.
Good job guys, keep up the good work. The momentum seems to be growing.
“”You mean five days ago, not the other day. If you, or Robert, or anyone thinks that I’m impatient, just imagine how impatient the FSF is going to be when they come asking for the modified grub source.””
Seeing as they’ve consistently ignored attempts to integrate the AFS patches the GRUB team don’t appear to give a damn about diffs to the original source anyhow. This is one that’s a real pain because I hate chaining instances of GRUB together.
That previous comment is pretty unfair. Since I don’t have all the facts I can’t really cast judgement about the GRUB/Syllable issue. Maybe one of the Syllable team can comment on it.
Well I figure you now realise this, but that comment was nothing to do with myself or any other Syllable developer. Whatever Robert does and how he handles GPL requirements, thats upto him.
As for the Syllable AFS patches, the problem is with the way in which GNU handle patch submissions. When Kurt originally wrote the AFS patch for Grub, he offered it to the Grub guys for inclussion. They insisted that he signed over copyright on the code to them. Kurt had a problem with that, as he wrote the original AFS implementation, he would have been signing away his own code which was not part of Grub. He found this requirement impossible to accept and did not submit the AFS support to Grub.
Now we have another problem; we didn’t write the AFS code, we didn’t write the AFS module for Grub, and we don’t own the copyright on any of it (We just get it under GPL). So we can’t submit the original code to the Grub maintainers, either!
One of two things would have to happen to resolve the issue; either the Grub maintainers accept the AFS code without assignment of copyright, or someone re-writes the Grub module and submits the code to the Grub guys & assigns their own copyright to them. No one has done that yet, though.
It would be cool if someone had the time and motivation to make a big table/spreadsheet for some of these progressing alternative OSes with an indication of the progress of certain levels of functionality. For example; tcp, dhcp, usb, etc., the core components which make an OS usable. Maybe even setup a donation campaign and send cash to development teams that achieve certain goals? If it could be unbiased, I’d chip in a little cash to help give some of these developers some valuable recognition for their work. While the sum may not be large, at least it would be of value. Even if it just covers the cost of some pizza and beer the recognition should be made.
You don’t need to get it included in GRUB, but you MUST give (or offer in writing) the code for the modified GRUB to anyone that gets the binary of your modified GRUB.
So, if you do have the sources, just make a nice tar with the modified sources (doesn’t even need to be a patch) and put it in your website.
When SkyOS/Syllable/whoever (I am kinda dizzy 😉 started modifying GRUB, they were able to do that because the authors published it under the GPL. You are able to use it for the same reason.
Really, asking you guys to zip a dozen files and put them in a site is not precisely an onerous requirement!
And for those who say “it’s just one guy, stop pushing him”, well, it’s not about him or his OS, it’s about being fair to the other guys who wrote GRUB.
You know, I think I grew to hate all the GPL zeal. You peple are SICK! You manage to wreck a completely nice blurb on a nicely evolving OS. Instead of participating in the discussion about technical and usability issues, about visions you have of a new OS, new technologies, you GPL neandertalers totally screw it all up to spew your opensource elitism.
I totally can see this poisoned aura that follows GPL, impeding the acceptance of products created under it.
I’m sorry if my language is too strong, well, mod me down then. But someone should say “enough” already.
How much do the developers of these OS use Linux as a reference when it comes to drivers? I’m guessing that information on driving specific devices is fairly thin on the ground (Or practically non-existent in the case of Nvidia). So do you folks sometimes check out the Linux/BSD version of the drivers to find out the ports/communication methods required for individual devices?
Typically, Syllable drivers are direct ports of Linux drivers.
Hi Syllable team, this is Hexydes (GUI Team Leader for SkyOS). Just wanted to say congratulations on your progress, and keep up the good work.
To Adam K: Get a life. People are sick of having to skip over your posts.
I sometimes wish people would just shut up …
Syllable is awesome, and I’ve got every intention to test it on my system once I’ve got a spare PC.
ReactOS looks good – and is getting better – all the time.
SkyOS is interesting, but I’ve never had much luck booting it in the bochs emulator, so I’ve pretty much let that take its course. Still, if the CDROM’s bootable, I might give it a go.
To Adam K: Get a life. People are sick of having to skip over your posts.
Then they can stop reading this website since. Having not yet been moderated down for these posts, I can only conclude that they are not considered off-topic, trolling, or flamebait, by the editors.
Indeed, it seems quite obvious to me that an operating system author(s) must abide by the licenses of the software they’re using. Robert made the decision to include GPLed software in SkyOS and, hence, he’s obligated to abide by that license.
I have, as of this morning, received a copy of the source to grub. I have not done any more than unzip it, so I can only assume at this point that this meets Robert’s obligation as it comes to make the source code to grub. He said he’d be passing along vlc shortly.
Adam