DesktopLinux.com recently caught up with Tom Adelstein, longtime Linux advocate and consultant, to find out what he has learned while spearheading initiatives to facilitate Linux adoption. Tom shares the grass roots efforts that have offered him an insider’s view of what is propelling Linux toward critical mass and the desktop. He shares his view of Linux “from the trenches.”
A Frank Analysis of Linux as it Moves Toward Critical Mass
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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As far as the status of Linux on the desktop right now, it’s definitely there. The main issues I heard from Leigh Day at Red Hat was one of hardware drivers. She said that when Linux has all the hardware drivers that OS X has, then Linux will be ready.
Hmmm, somebody needs to do some basic research. OS X has poor hardware support compared to Windows or even Linux, but then again it has to support far less stuff as you can only buy it “out of the box”
Yeah, OSX is great, but Hardware support compared to Linux?
Linux runs on [add 20 archetectures here], and OSX runs only on PPC and compatable hardware.
C’mon.
Further more, I would say Linux lacks polished desktop applications when compared with Windows or Mac OS X.
Further more, I would say Linux lacks polished desktop applications when compared with Windows or Mac OS X. Well, I mean that’s a bigger priority than hardware support imo. Most people only switch an operating system when they happen to buy a new computer, and use the operating system that is installed by default. So if a shop configures a linux computer, and they have all the necessary applications, people won’t probably uninstall linux.
>>So if a shop configures a linux computer, and they have all the necessary applications, people won’t probably uninstall linux.<<
Think that all depends, I was watching Screensavers a couple weeks ago when a person called in asking how to install Win XP on the Linux box they bought from Fry’s. And the very next day on the show someone called in talking about the same thing, saying they didn’t like Linux but liked the cheap PC and wanted to load Windows on it. So it does happen.
The real problem with Linux on the desktop, and I say this as a desktop Linux user, is a spotty user experience. It can be great, or it can be awful. It depends on a number of factors — the user’s experience level, the user’s hardware, and the user’s application requirements. My desktop experience with Linux has been wonderful, so let me detail the factors that contributed to that:
1) I’m an experienced user. Thus, I can use powerful distros like Gentoo, which solve the package management issues that plague distros like RedHat (out-of-box). I can also fix stuff that bothers me. For example, I didn’t like that KDE draws lots of icons in its menus (unlike OS X) so I just patched Qt so it didn’t do that. When ThinKeramik (my theme) had an annoying flicker when resizing, I went and fixed it. Things like editing my fstab to install my iPod just don’t bother me. In fact, I like the control compared to WinXP.
2) I’ve got vanilla hardware. Dell P4 laptop, NVIDIA graphics card, AC97 audio card, Logitech USB mouse, Logitech USB webcam, Logitech gamepad, Firewire iPod. Everything was autodetected, and the only driver I had to install was for my NVIDIA card. I also have broadband here at school, so all the downloading Gentoo requires doesn’t bother me.
3) I don’t require any unusual software. I need some development tools, some engineering apps (Matlab, among other things), and the usual assortment of desktop software (AIM client, office suite, mail client, etc). As a result, not only can I find all the apps that I need on Linux, but (excepting very specialized apps like Matlab) I can use a 100% KDE desktop. Using a single DE consistently (whether it is GNOME or KDE) goes a huge way in making the desktop feel tightly integrated and polished.
I can easily see how people who don’t meet these requirements could be put off by Linux on the desktop. If you don’t have the technical capability, and a proclivity for reading and understanding documentation, Linux just isn’t for you. If your hardware doesn’t work, there is little you can do but get new hardware. If you need Photoshop or Flash or Dreamweaver, you probably won’t find replacements on Linux.
“Further more, I would say Linux lacks polished desktop applications when compared with Windows or Mac OS X.”
Yes and no. In many cases yes, Linux simply has fewer large applications.
The real problem with Linux distributions is that they lack standards and integration that Windows and OS X enjoyes. As long as the Linux community continues on with this “choice is good” notion, this will never be fixed either.
Not to mention that the Linux kernel is very biased towards having drivers only as part of the kernel. To make closed drivers (something that is needed to get more hardware vendor support) one has conditions such as kernel versions (there are lots), distribution difference, etc etc.
Quite frankly, Linux still needs some stuff, but no one can say that it isn’t a player and that it won’t be one. Linux still needs some stuff like a jukebox player equivalent to iTunes or at least Windows Media Player. Someone could pretty easily make one around the Ogg Vorbis encoder and decoder. XMMS doesn’t cut it for anyone that has used something better than WinAmp. Of course, it already has a great office suite and web browsers. Installing plugins for those browsers could be easier. . . There are very few areas that Linux is architectually lacking in. The areas that need to be finished are simple spit and polish things like easy install plugins for web browsers and a few of the niceities that Windows/Mac enjoy. These things are no big deal for a business computer where you aren’t using it for more than business tasks, but it does matter to home users.
Linux hasn’t hit prime-time for home users yet, but it is there for computer labs and businesses.
As for hardware support, RedHat still needs to get my laptop’s display working. (That was a little sarcastic dig. It’s not meant as an actual criticism. A lot of people feel that things like that are personal attacks against Linux. It as merely a joke because it works fine in Mandrake. I’m not anti-linux for saying that RH won’t display graphics on my laptop’s screen!)
but no one can say that it isn’t a player and that it won’t be one.
That is exactly what I’m saying. Linux is not in the game for desktop. Sure people are advocating it but the buzz is about to be over. As long as Linux is the mysterious competitor people will “notice” it, but as soon as they see what it is, they just move on. I did, many more has done that and many more will do.
Linux will keep to it’s strong politics about user not wanting to pay and the system will continue not to be very well integrated thus leaving it as a non choice for the desktop.
@A.K.H: As long as the Linux community continues on with this “choice is good” notion
>>>>>>>>>>
You might want to rephrase that. Here in the U.S.A, choice is a basic human right
@Sean: Have you tried JuK? For my basic Jukebox needs, its awsome, and doesn’t try to be “stylish” like MusicMatch or WMP.
>> XMMS doesn’t cut it for anyone that has used something better than WinAmp.
iTunes is better than XMMS/Winamp, I’ll give you that, but if you’re talking about Windows Media Player, Real Player or MusicMatch as being “better” than XMMS/Winamp, sir, it is just not so. “bigger”, “more bloated”, “more cumbersome”, yes, but “better”? Please.
“If you don’t have the technical capability, and a proclivity for reading and understanding documentation, Linux just isn’t for you.”
Umm, I have lots of technical capability and I don’t mind documentation. But I’d rather NOT have to spend time making something work or perform a function if I don’t have to. I’d much prefer things to *just work*, or at least have a “Next Next Finish” solution. I have better things to spend my time on.
Your comment sounds quite elitist. People “in the know” can dislike Linux as well. OS X shows that you can have a simple interface while still maintaining the power and control of unix.
Try RHYTHMBOX. I love it, its very much like iTunes.
rhythmbox.org
“You might want to rephrase that. Here in the U.S.A, choice is a basic human right
”
Within limitations of course, there are many laws that limit your choice. Without some sort of standards there is anarchy, people often forget that and think they should be free to do whatever they like.
We cannot cooperate effectivly without setting down some standards on how we interact. Operating systems are no different. I think the results would be stunning if everyone decided to build a standard distribution with standard ways of doing things. In every case where standards have been introduced good things happened.
Look at PAM, look at Gnome/KDE, look at HTTP, TCP/IP, etc etc. Do you remember the messes before these things? We had all sorts of inoperatable authentication methods, every X application worked different and looked different, before TCP/IP there were number of different network protocals (IPX was probably one of the more common though).
More standards would really help open source software become more usable and wide spread.
Quite frankly, Linux still needs some stuff, but no one can say that it isn’t a player and that it won’t be one. Linux still needs some stuff like a jukebox player hequivalent to iTunes (see http://www.rhythmbox.org/ ) or at least Windows Media Player (see http://www.mplayerhq.hu and http://www.xinehq.de ) Someone could pretty easily make one around the Ogg Vorbis encoder and decoder. XMMS doesn’t cut it for anyone that has used something better than WinAmp. Of course, it already has a great office suite and web browsers. Installing plugins for those browsers could be easier. . . There are very few areas that Linux is architectually lacking in. The areas that need to be finished are simple spit and polish things like easy install plugins for web browsers and a few of the niceities that Windows/Mac enjoy. These things are no big deal for a business computer where you aren’t using it for more than business tasks, but it does matter to home users.
So if you manage to install one or both of the above applications as the mozilla plugins I think you’re an happy guy.
Linux hasn’t hit prime-time for home users yet, but it is there for computer labs and businesses.
Let’s wait for the next distribution wave shall we? (IMHO: it’s close enought today).
As for hardware support, RedHat still needs to get my laptop’s display working. (That was a little sarcastic dig. It’s not meant as an actual criticism. A lot of people feel that things like that are personal attacks against Linux. It as merely a joke because it works fine in Mandrake. I’m not anti-linux for saying that RH won’t display graphics on my laptop’s screen!)
RedHat isn’t as good as Mandrake in detecting and configuring driver’s (yet).
There’s also a promising project ( http://www.gstreamer.net ) for multimedia handling. It’s broader then the two I mention before because it’s not a player (it’s a multimedia framework mainly) and it’s the base of rhythmbox…
In the interview, there was a link that Red Hat is to launch a new Desktop Linux:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4512387368.html
IMHO, it will probably rule Sun’s Java Desktop effort, at the least.
Umm, I have lots of technical capability and I don’t mind documentation. But I’d rather NOT have to spend time making something work or perform a function if I don’t have to.
>>>>>>>>>
My statement was “If you are not technically capable, you don’t (can’t) use Linux.” This in no way implies that the inverse is true, that “if you are technically capable, then you do use Linux.” Read up on basic logic sometime…
“My statement was “If you are not technically capable, you don’t (can’t) use Linux.” This in no way implies that the inverse is true, that “if you are technically capable, then you do use Linux.” Read up on basic logic sometime…”
This is degenerating into a silly arguement, but don’t and can’t are words with very different meanings. It has nothing to do with logic by the way, since by basic logic your statement is almost surely wrong. I’m sure *some* non-technical users use linux (probably set up by some technical freind). If what you really mean’t to say was that non-technical users shouldn’t use linux, well then that’s different and I’d agree with you.
But there is no reason that linux can’t be made into a system that non-techincal people can use and enjoy.
Linux will be ready for the desktop when people stop bothering to ask the question. If you have to ask, then it’s probably not ready.
Sorry for misinterpreting you btw.
Actually, its a basic logic problem. I made the proposition that if !A, then !B, where A = has technical capability, and B = should use Linux. If the user has no technical capability, then he should not use Linux. You said that you have the technical capability, but you don’t want to bother. You interpreted my statement as if A then B — if a user has technical capability, he should use Linux. The second statement is the logical inverse of the first. Its a fallacy to believe that, if a given statement is true, that its inverse is also true.
PS> Sorry if I sounded a bit bitter, but I get tired of people not reading my posts carefully before responding.
I’ve been using Linux since April of 2002, and I’ve been blown away by the level of progress in the GUIs and applications in the year-and-a-half since then. IMO, it’s still not quite ripe yet, but I remain hopeful and encouraged that Linux will continue to advance just as rapidly toward the usability of MacOS X and Windows XP…probably even surpass it. As far as applications go, there maybe be a lack of choice in some categories, but I’ve even found a multitrack audio recorder that competes very favorably with what I used to use under
Windows. As far as I’m concerned, Linux has definitely arrived on the desktop. It’s just a matter of time before it gets really mature, enough to recommend to anyone without hesitation. That day is not very far off.
And to those who think Linux is not being aimed at the desktop, just look at the awsome GUIs we have these days. Gnome 2.4 is just released, KDE 3.2 is a couple of months off, and XFCE just released 4.0 of their interface. Think back a bit folks and remember that the reason GUIs exists in the first place was because DOS was not as convenient to use as Macintosh. LAN admins were perfectly happy with Novell’s character interface. The only ones clamoring for a windowing system were end users. Say what you will about dependency and package managment problems, but Linux on the desktop is a reality. And I for one and proud to be part of the revolution.
Whats everyone talking about? Ive been using linux as my desktop and think its great
MY SCREENSHOT:
http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/getpicture.php?id=351240
“Hmmm, somebody needs to do some basic research. OS X has poor hardware support compared to Windows or even Linux, but then again it has to support far less stuff as you can only buy it “out of the box” ”
Hmm OS X has poor hardware support? I suppose thats why every Linux distro i’ve installed on my labtop can’t tell me any information about the battery. According to linux whenever im not plugged in im apparently running on some magical power source… maybe dream power? And i guess thats why Linux runs down the battery faster than Windows XP and Mac OS X?
“Yeah, OSX is great, but Hardware support compared to Linux? Linux runs on [add 20 archetectures here], and OSX runs only on PPC and compatable hardware. ”
I suppose you have a piece of hardware for each of those archetectures? I mean you couldn’t possibly be complaining unless you owned hardware containing all those types of configurations… that is unless your an ignorant clod. Besides if you weren’t ignorant you’d know that very little of the Mac OS X kernel is written in it’s native assembly language which means it could easily be ported to any Intel processor, or just about any other processor out there. Get Mac OS X or stop drooling over it and complaining it’s not running on your machine.
“Your comment sounds quite elitist. People “in the know” can dislike Linux as well. OS X shows that you can have a simple interface while still maintaining the power and control of unix.”
Your right. I sortta like linux but there are major drawbacks to it. People comment on how far Linux apps have come yet totally forget about Mac OS X. In comparison to Linux Mac OS X totally blazzed past it a LONG time ago in terms of showing that you can have an easy UNIX based OS. At this pace of development Linux is going to take A LONG TIME catching up. Plus Apple is improving Mac OS X’s interface with every update. How long will it take before Windows and Linux copy Mac OS X’s Expose feature?
You are really stuck up and an idiot. No, all I own is intel, but it doesnt mean OTHER PEOPLE (you know, all those things walking around) don’t have those systems.
LINUX works on more hardware, its a fact. Probobly 5x more hardware (literaly). Im not saying linux is better, but it supports more hardware.
People have their platform of choice, and the more places your OS can run, the better.
And read a little more. If OSX was written in Assembly, it COULDN’T be ported anywhere, Assembly is tied to the processor. Luckily its not written in Assembly. C/++ I believe.
And stop complaining because I cant get OSX? I could have bought a mac, I CHOSE not to. I dont like the mac, people use what they want.
Heh. OS X is okay. Its pretty and all, but I don’t really like it. On the machines I’ve used it on (800 MHz G4 iMacs with 512MB of RAM) its rather slow. I was viewing a PDF today, and just moving around in the PDF with the “hand” tool was *very* jerky. So was stuff like resizing IE. Font rendering isn’t as good as either Linux or Windows — too blurry and the stroke weight isn’t very regular. Overall, its polished, but kinda “dignified.” It feels very solid, but takes its time with things. Its not well-suited to a twitchy user like me. Also, “all the power of UNIX” is a bit overstated. There is a bit of a schism between the GUI and the CLI. For example, the default “cp” command doesn’t copy resource forks. Also, its missing an automatic package manager like APT or Portage.
“Think that all depends, I was watching Screensavers a couple weeks ago when a person called in asking how to install Win XP on the Linux box they bought from Fry’s. And the very next day on the show someone called in talking about the same thing, saying they didn’t like Linux but liked the cheap PC and wanted to load Windows on it. So it does happen.”
Your suprised?! http://madpenguin.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article…
LOL, I would uninstall it too, no doubt about that!
MPlayers kicks the shit right out of Windows Media PLayer. It supports more codecs and such, it is faster, it is portable, opensource, and finally it’s free and doesn’t have DRM censor (marketed as ”security”) features.
Yes, MPlayer is FASTER then WMP. I’ve compiled it myself and used it on XP. It was many times faster then WMP. Both in rendering as well as starting up. Gone with the bloat, MPlayer is ONE of the MANY alternatives for WMP.
Because there are also OTHERS. For example frontends. But also think about Xine.
As for the uniformity. Nein. Not by definition needed. OTOH, some distro’s use/aim for that…
When the article talks about Linux needing hardware support equal to OS X, they’re not talking about the number of platforms and peripherals that are supported. They’re talking about the breadth of peripheral functionality supported:
1. printer
2. mp3 player
3. scanner
4. digital camera
5. digital camcorder
6. external hard drive
7. microphone
8. pda
9. dvd burner
etc., etc.
Linux, generally, still has trouble in a few of these functional areas and is still in beta on a few more. But that will change in the near future.
And yes, Linux is coming to the end-user desktop, at the office and in the home. I may even use Linux on occassion (but I’m keeping my Mac OS X as my primary machine).
Regards,
Mark Wilson
Think that all depends, I was watching Screensavers a couple weeks ago when a person called in asking how to install Win XP on the Linux box they bought from Fry’s. And the very next day on the show someone called in talking about the same thing, saying they didn’t like Linux but liked the cheap PC and wanted to load Windows on it. So it does happen.
Can you blame them? they buy a computer only to find that there is jack squat software available on the shelves and the only software that is available is via some weird and obscure website which requires knowing how to use RPM.
Please, these people are Joe and Jane moron. They have difficulty running windowsupdate, installing applications using setup.exe and running their anti-virus update, do you *REALLY* think that they can download and run rpm -ivh from the CLI?
Joe and Jane moron wants to go into Dick Smiths and buy a copy of Quicken off the shelf and run it. They don’t want to be told, “oh sorry, that isn’t available”. Joe and Jane moron want to be able to run their favourite applications on Linux. If it means they have to upgrade, no worries but if you expect them to suddenly throw away all the knowledge and download some weird and obscure OSS clone then please, you’re more deluded than my Irish Setter.
What is worse? hardware support. Joe Schmuck whats to grab a Pinnacle PCTV card, through it into a spare PCI slot and simply get it running. They want access to all the bells and whistles of the card. They don’t want to be told that it is supported and only to find that only one part of the card is supported.
Same thing goes for video drivers for X. There is nothing stopping SuSE, Redhat or Lindows from signing and NDA with Nvidia so that they can get access to the drivers, test them in their distribution and make changes to fix any ideosyncricies. The problem is that they’re either too lazy or play the religion card, “oh, I can’t do that. It would be immoral to sign NDA!”.
When Joe and Jane users can take home Linux, hook up a scanner and install Adobe Photoshop Elements without losing hair THEN we have a winnner.
On the corporate desktop, it is different. The computer is locked down, and supported by a dedicated crew of support staff, the average user does not have the comfort of a whole support crew looing after them. They have to try and work their way through this jungle of technology and hopefully make things work.
Yes, I would love to say, “Read the f*cking manual”, but the simple fact is that the average user is lazy. Thick and lazy. Anything that allows them to do the minimum amount of work, they’ll take over a cheaper and more efficient option. It is time Linux fanboys realise that this is the user base. The user base is not represented by people who post here, the user base goes to pga.com to check scores, reads the local news paper and maybe send a couple of emails. The people who read technology news and part take in discussions don’t repreasent the vast majority of people.
I’ve had the same experience as Rayiner with the iMacs. It’s slow as hell, it’s expensive, the mouse pisses me off, but it’s pretty. All I’ll give the mac is “pretty”. The Mac is the kinda gift you buy for your ten year old daughter that values eye candy above and beyond productivity.
And personally, I just don’t like OSX. But I’d rather lick OSX’s butt over using Windows anyday. In fact, I do. I can deal with the slowness, which it compensates for being pretty. But I have used the horrible mouse for more than a semester now, and it still just pissses me off.
Will I purchase a Mac? Never. If I was given one for free what will I do? Throw that stupid mouse away. Reformat the hard disk and install Gentoo on it. What about the G5? Err….ummm…I reserve my comments. *It’s tempting. I hope they do something about the stupid mouse though*
P.S How on earth do you expect me to be productive with a mouse that has one button?
P.S How on earth do you expect me to be productive with a mouse that has one button?
1) Buy a new one
2) Press control-mouse click for right button mouse functionality. I end up replacing the standard mice and keyboards from PC vendors. I would just love to see a PC vendor bundly a UNIX style keyboard with their machines. That would really make my day.
Regarding the speed. I am running an eMac, I went from a PIII 550Mhz to this machine and I have notices a huge speed improvement. Responsive under a heavy load, awsome Java performance, and excellent sound.
The sound on this is equal to Sound Blaster Live as most vendors like HP are too cheap to integrate a quality one so they have a crappy AC97 Realtek controller whose sound is so bad I would rather listen to a badly scratched record.
>>Please, these people are Joe and Jane moron. They have difficulty running windowsupdate, installing applications using setup.exe and running their anti-virus update, do you *REALLY* think that they can download and run rpm -ivh from the CLI? <<
I think you make a good point. But let’s not assume everybody who is not a computer specialist is a “moron.” I have provided support for many doctors and scientists, who don’t know squat about computer technology; but those doctors and scientists are hardly “morons.”
When I can exchange documents in universally accepted formats with my suppliers and customers ….
When I can operate every application and system service using the same GUI interface and accepting the same mouse clicks and keyboard shortcuts ….
When I can receive a driver with 90% of the hardware I buy …
When my installation has drivers for the legacy hardware I still use ….
When all configuration is done through the standard GUI and has user friendly ‘wizards” I can walk people through …
When help for functions within the OS and applications are done with the same interface and are up to date and match the code …
When I can receive automatically updates for the OS and its applets and for the major office suite that have been tested by a single vendor and have a high degree of working together …
When I can exchange documents in universally accepted formats with my suppliers and customers ….
>>>>>>>>>>>
Check. Its called PDF. Oh, you mean Microsoft-accepted formats!
When I can operate every application and system service using the same GUI interface and accepting the same mouse clicks and keyboard shortcuts ….
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Where’d you get the Windows setup where Office, IE, and the “.NET” apps (like Visual Studio) *don’t* all use different toolkits?
When I can receive a driver with 90% of the hardware I buy …
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Even better! Your system will come with drivers already installed!
When my installation has drivers for the legacy hardware I still use ….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What exactly are you getting at. Is there a specific piece of hardware you need working, or are you just being facetious?
When all configuration is done through the standard GUI and has user friendly ‘wizards” I can walk people through …
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This one is actually a valid point.
When help for functions within the OS and applications are done with the same interface and are up to date and match the code …
>>>>>>>>>>>
All my KDE apps use the exact same help system. Unlike Windows, where IE uses a different help system from Office…
When I can receive automatically updates for the OS and its applets and for the major office suite that have been tested by a single vendor and have a high degree of working together …
>>>>>>>>
Of you consider the KDE Project a “vendor” than you can rest easy in the fact that all KDE apps exhibit a degree of “working together”* that exceeds anything available on Windows.