Microsoft’s Poole said there were tremendous opportunities for driving future innovation through Longhorn and the integration it would bring, including giving Microsoft the ability to more easily and effectively deliver smart applications.
Microsoft’s Poole Talks Up Longhorn
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Why why why are they hyping up a product that is more then a year away with no release date set it stone yet?
Why? Because people and paying big customers need to know what the company is planning. Get a clue and stop being so blind. Wasn’t Apple hyping OSX since 1997? It was released in 2001.
“Why why why are they hyping up a product that is more then a year away (…)”
Longhorn might be hyped, but I can’t help that I, too, am waiting for this release.
“(…) with no release date set it stone yet?”
Err– does that matter? First everyone complains that MS never meets their promised release dates– and now they try to be more cautious, and it isn’t good either. What’s with you people??
Windows continues to offer value compared to open-source software and Microsoft will continue to drive that message home to both customers and partners
Let’s pick a venue in which Microsoft is considered to hold strong positions, for instance, media players. The only Microsoft offering on this market is their Media Player. On opensource side we got foobar2000 and mplayer. foobar offers native interface that fits MS operating system better then Media Player. It also requires much less time for figuring out how can a certain operation is performed – something that should not be taken for granted in a world where writers of multimedia apps seem to compete in confusing the user with piles of different miniature buttons with one-of-a-kind symbols on them. Foobar is actually designed for playing music – unlike WMP, which seems to be created for pushing MS-sanctioned ads down the user’s throat (why should a media player show “what MS wants you to listen” (MS playlist) page when started rather then MY playlist?
Now let’s tack the video side. Mplayer seems to play every format known to mankind. WMP requires installation of codecs. Mplayer handles damaged files gracefully. WMP dies on them. Both Mplayer and Foobar allows me to control playback with most accessible buttons – the physical ones on my keyboard (remapping is possible), while WMP has just a few unconfortable hard-coded key combinations and forces use of virtual on-screen buttons for most operations.
The added benefit of foobar and mplayer is that their resource consimption is much lower then that of MS media player.
So, how can it be so that a multi-billion corporation that is capable of hiring scores of UI experts and programmers can’t design a player that is faster and easier to use then two programs, written by some open source hippies?
So, how can it be so that a multi-billion corporation that is capable of hiring scores of UI experts and programmers can’t design a player that is faster and easier to use then two programs, written by some open source hippies?
If they threw more programmers and money at WMP and fixed it, people like you would be crying that it was anti-trust (“only a monopoly could afford to make a media player THAT good…”, “MS is trying to stifle competition by sinking money into WMP just like with IE!”, etc etc). So they make a product that’s good enough to have most people satisfied, but not so good that the crybabies could justify another trial over it.
Of course MS is hyping Longhorn. They have to. This is a major undertaking and is constantly slipping in its shipping date. If MS doesn’t continue to keep it fresh in people’s minds they won’t have a leg to stand on to compete in the OS market.
However, that being said, I have this feeling in my gut that this is major vaporware right now. The only thing I have really seen hyped is the Aero interface. Let’s be honest…so what. The GUI is certainly not going to drive adoption except by the most blind of MS zealots. I have repeatedly seen comments by folks saying this is the greatest thing ever from MS and that they can’t wait to get it. My question is what is it?? Seriously. Someone inform me of the major upgrades because the GUI. I have heard mention of the new Windows File System but that alone will not drive adoption either.
MS better do something and soon. The way this product is slipping, they are going to have a tremendous number of pissed people out there because of all those Software Assurance Licences people bought promising an upgrade. MS hasn’t fully addressed that whole can of worms.
So MS, how about some real substance instead of lightweight PR? On a related side note, don’t go spouting the value of MS versus open source. Face it, you are going to lose that battle eventually because free is always cheaper than anything you offer. Open source is just that, open while your proprietary software is shut off to the world.
First of all, I’m not ‘blindly following’, I’m just saying that I’m looking forward to the release– blindly following is a different thing, my friend, a VERY different thing.
And about my (p)review of the JDS: come one. I’ve used it, you (probably) haven’t. I rest my case.
Loosen up man.
To tell you the truth, longhorn does seem very good, well in theory at least. Longhorn is basically the NT kernel, .NET as the main API and a directx HW accelerated GUI. This makes it (in theory) the ultimate desktop OS. However, even if the ideas behind it are great, i’ll have to admit that microsoft does have a tendency to screw things up… and they probably will by adding DRM and other stuff.
Everyone waits with baited breath for the new MS OS, even if they do not want to admit to it. Working in the IT field, you know it is just a new toy, and you need to play with it. You can make all the noise you want, but you will check out all the previews, stare at the pictures and drive to Best Buy to check it out.
On the other hand, KDE and/or Gnome will have taken MS idea of the interface and make it 100x’s better, with more support and better handling. Not to mention it will work just as fast on a computer 1/3 it’s speed.
Long live FreeBSD and Linux
gotta laugh at Message 7 – previously on OSNews messages have been posted by “SCO Hater” from same IP block as this “Darl McBride”
Anyway: the notion floated in the article of providing a monthly security rollup is a brilliant one – people like me responsible for security on 100-ish PCs without centralised patch management software will welcome this. Far, far easier than having a server cache of patches and trying to make sure every machine has them installed.
Offtopic, flamebait, and an attack on the original poster. I would click “report abuse”, but apparently Eugenia is above all rules, and disabled that function for her posts.. “Learn to love a bit” indeed…
You should analyze a bit more, instead of showing the world your kneejerk reactions to someone who doesn’t foam at the mouth at the mention of MS. Eugenia merely pointed out how behavior exhibited by one company is ok for another company, and so shouldn’t be criticized. It is not a general consesus that apple is bad for hyping OS X years before it was released but it is one that MS is bad for doing the same. It is on-topic to point out a double standard.
Microsoft doesn’t even understand what inovation is. Operating systems are going to become smaller and more job specific. CPU’s are going to run multiple OS’s. Then we will have a basic O.S. (some Open Source OS) for communication between computers and many specific use OSs. The basic O.S. has to be open source so that all in this world can trust it. But, specific O.S.’s can be proprietary as you choose. For my job I would like to have one with great math and graphics (I am an engineer) for home I would like an extra specific OS for media. But, communication between OS’s must be in one that is Open Source.
Microsoft doesn’t even understand what inovation is. Operating systems are going to become smaller, faster and more job specific. CPU’s are going to run multiple OS’s at the same time. Then we will have a basic O.S. (some Open Source OS) for communication between computers and many specific use OSs running at the same time. The basic O.S. has to be open source so that all in this world can trust it. But, specific O.S.’s can be proprietary as you choose. For my job I would like to have one with great math and graphics (I am an engineer) but for home I would like one of them to be a specific OS for media and maybe some others like games. But, for basic communication between PC’s we must have one that is trusted by all (an Open Source OS). Microsoft will not die but they will not lead.
Maybe you don’t understand that execution and delivery are more important than innovation. Ho hum. Another O$er who doesn’t know jack about business. Big surprise.
microsoft just wants to get rid of other os thats why they are going to realese intels new prossesor that will only be compatible with longhorn
Next to “report abuse” should be “report moron”.
Facts you are obviously unfamiliar with:
1. No future intel chip is going to be longhorn only.
2. AMD and other cpu manufactures plan to use the security features you refer to, they also will not be longhorn only.
3. You are a fud spreading moron, why would you bring your ignorant ass to a site called osnews.com, and not knowing a thing about which you speak, spout off? It doesn’t make you cool, it makes you look stupid. Everyone here knows better, go back to trolling slashdot, retardo.
Unfortunately, WMP is good enough only for those who haven’t used anything else. I don’t say this because I hate MS, I say this because all products that MS integrates into Windows are junk and survive only because of bundling. If MSIE gave more control over content presentation to me and wasn’t the control-freak-turned-webmaster’s wet dream, I would use it. If Windows Media player featured native no-nonsence interface, I would use it. If the free editors that MS bundled with Windows could be actually used for something, I would use them.
It would be really great if I didn’t have to install the additional applications just to use my machine efficiently. Until this happens, I will have to install third-party programs to do simple things like browsing with no popups. This sucks, and sucks a lot.
Anyway: the notion floated in the article of providing a monthly security rollup is a brilliant one – people like me responsible for security on 100-ish PCs without centralised patch management software will welcome this. Far, far easier than having a server cache of patches and trying to make sure every machine has them installed.
Wouldn’t it be simpler if you simply bought an 8 way server and deployed WYSE thin-clients, then you would only have one source to update.
Why? Most of the world uses Windows, they should know what Microsoft is planning next. It is a common business strategy. And hyping? What’s wrong with that? Apple hyped OS X since 1997. YellowTab on Zeta since Be went under. Solaris 9? And why must they decide on a release date and make it final when their biggest feature, WinFS, still haven’t been implemented? To dissapoint people in the end?
MS has good software and good applications, name another operating system that even comes close. Don’t say the L$ word because I am a admin for it at work and know its limits.
This must be a joke. I work as a technical support represenative for a major antivirus and firewall company. With one of Microsoft’s next ‘innovations’ being throwing generic RPC calls over port 80, and we all know about Windows and RPC services . . . Blaster, SoBig, Slammer . . . In another two years layer 3 firewalls will be useless. Oh joy!
Just curious if MPlayer actually had any codecs of its own, or is it simply a glorified version of a WMP replacement, such as Media Player Classic ?
Personally, I use Media Player Classic in Windows which (AFAIK) just uses the WMP/Real media/other codecs and won’t work on its own, but it’s still a nice player and much faster to load than WMP or Real Player.
Do I think MS innovates much? No, not really. But on the other hand, I certainly have not seen much on the Linux innovation front either. The way I see it, one seems to want to be like the other – Windows wants to be more like Linux on the server and Linux wants to be more like Windows on the desktop. I’m sure that they will eventually end up meeting somewhere in the middle, and I’ll be happy if MS can ever get its security straight, so the ABM’ers will have to find something else to bitch about.
Mplayer uses the official codecs, so no, it doesn’t make its own.
But how can it? Its illegal to reverse engineer this stuff, and I doubt MS will open up their formats anytime soon.
Don’t blame the victims, unless you want them to go to jail? 😉
> MS has good software and good applications
Where do I start? The piece of software that is a bad mockery of real content based document generation, page layout and document interchange systems? Word DOCs don’t always render the same between versions of Word! Why are most academic CS papers formatted using LATEX? I could go on and on about the math accuracy in Excell or the so called ‘database’ Access. But such accounts are nothing new or need to be repeated here.
Yes this is a bit of a rant, but those who think that Microsoft is the end-all-and-be-all really, really need to learn how to be a discerning consumer. Learn to find and use the right tool for the job.
Mplayer is a universal video and audio player, normally used under Linux. However, Windows port exisits and that’s what I use. So my Windows desktop is quite similiar to Linux one
.
As for reverse engineering, it is legal. That’s how IBM clones appeared. That’s why most people use a PC now.
Maser wrote:
If they threw more programmers and money at WMP and fixed it, people like you would be crying that it was anti-trust (“only a monopoly could afford to make a media player THAT good…”, “MS is trying to stifle competition by sinking money into WMP just like with IE!”, etc etc). So they make a product that’s good enough to have most people satisfied, but not so good that the crybabies could justify another trial over it.
Wow! Do you sound confused! I love it when people defend M$.
So your saying that Microsoft is capable of being “perfect” but they dont because their afraid of what the government might think? Huh?
“why would you bring your ignorant ass to a site called osnews.com”
Cause he knows he’ll fit right in here…
Wow! Do you sound confused! I love it when people defend MS.
So your saying that Microsoft is capable of being “perfect” but they dont because their afraid of what the government might think? Huh?
They don’t try as hard anymore, because their competition will whine to the doj, that’s correct.
Regarding the macnet2 artice “A Disappointing Look At Apple’s Dual G5 Tower. Not The Machine I thought It Was”:
This only proves that today’s computers are not only fast enough for most everyday tasks, but that they are so fast that you can’t notice any speed difference any more formost of the time.
Since his last machine was pretty much maxed out regarding HD, graphics and whatever, the only real difference would be processor speed. But in today’s computers the processor has to wait for all the peripherals most of the time anyway. So one CAN’T notice any difference UNLESS one does processor intenive tasks like video processing or similar, tasks that MAKE ONE WAIT for the machine for at least 2 minutes. I NEVER do such tasks, so I’m pretty happy with my Celeron-650 (Oh, sorry, hope I’m allowed to post here in spite of not owning a MAC 😉 ).
And NO, the machine is NOT defective (except maybe for the graphics card and the WLAN), contrary what a couple of mac evangelists there suppose. There is no defect that would slow down a machine by half or something, except some very bad software malconfiguration. Forget it guys. The G5 just is not any faster in user PERCEIVED speed, ie Finder, opening apps, shuffling windows etc. because the G4s already were fast enough.
Philotech
SUN tipped the cards to the audience and some of us noticed that the whole computer software industry is a game of bluff.
Why? Most of the world uses Windows, they should know what Microsoft is planning next. It is a common business strategy. And hyping? What’s wrong with that? Apple hyped OS X since 1997. YellowTab on Zeta since Be went under. Solaris 9? And why must they decide on a release date and make it final when their biggest feature, WinFS, still haven’t been implemented? To dissapoint people in the end?
Regarding Solaris, its launch was done with a small amount of fan-fare. The one which they *REALLY* hyped was version 8, and saying, “it isn’t an operating system, its an *OPERATING ENVIRONMENT*!”.
Regarding Apple, they hyped, let down and hyped again every replacement for MacOS Classic. That did more damage as each time people heard, they became even more switched off. They’ve learnt and now very little is leaked out until it is actually implemented, which is good.
As for Microsoft, I have heard *VERY* little about Longhorn. Some education assumptions, small tid-bits by Microsoft but that is it, IMHO, lets wait until next year when the first betas are released. For me, however, if Microsoft does deliver, I am quite happy to move back to the PC, but if they fail to impress me, I’ll stick with either the Mac or run a PC with Linux or FreeBSD loaded.
As for hyping, there is a different between informing and hyping. Yellowtab has hyped and forgive me for being cynical but from the reviews so far, they have not lived up to the hype. Microsoft has said that Longhorn is the next big release and given small amounts of information but have not hyped any features yet because no features have been officially announced.
Linux suffers from this hype. The promise of a desktop solution, and each year getting told, “this is the year of the linux desktop”. Where are the Macromedias, Adobes, Quarks, 4Ds EA Entertainments of the world to provide software? all I keep hearing is the same crap over and over again. Sorry, an operating system is completely useless if there is no commercial software to run on it.
Actually, Microsoft sent their video componant in for standardinzation.
Also, codecs like mp3, mpeg, et al, are NOT open. You have to pay a licscening fee EXACTLY like you have to for Windows Media.
I’m absolutely amazed that people still can’t wait for Microsoft’s latest and greatest operating system. Doesn’t the current Windows XP product activation, rental model, concern anyone here? Hasn’t anyone here been following the details of the Nexus and Next Generation Secure Computing Base (beam me up Scotty).
I have installed computers from 1997 that still are in daily operation – They’ve been reinstalled a few times. They’ve been upgraded with new hardware, but so what.
What if you don’t want to upgrade that computer you bought last year, that was installed with WinXP. Now think forward to when your under cooled 1 to 3 gig processor craps out your motherboard, a year after Longhorn has been released. Do you think Microsoft will come to your rescue with a new Product activation code. Maybe.
Now what about having a private key and a crypto chip in that new computer that you’ll have to buy in order to receive the benefits of Longhorn. All of your expensive data has been all backed up, but your motherboard or hard drive dies. So you repair your hardware (restore if necessary) and now you have a bunch encrypted data junk – that will have to have all of _your_ access permissions restored from any number of remote servers. Sound’s like a lot of potential for any number of points of failure.
Get smart. If you _have_ to use windows keep win98se or win2k sp2. Install Grisoft or Avast anti virus. Ditto with zone alarm. If your paranoid, purchase some spare replacement components. These systems will be in use for years to come.
But if you love to automate and tinker, and you have no experience with linux – then BUY a copy of SUSE, Mandrake or any number of consumer oriented distributions. It’s really a lot of fun – and these open source guys like to limit points of failure, not increase them.
Or go ahead and pay your hard earned money to a mediocre software producer, that will be happy to rent you their boxed product. Pay for the benefit of product lock in. By the way, don’t Longhorn’s gore people?
Personally I’m willing to give up a little freedom and convenience to stop thieves, I think most people in their heats feel the same. Assuming they can come up with a fool proof way to prevent digital copying of software and media (it’s possible, just questionable whether the involved parties are going to implement it right or make something weak like CSS). I’m trying to be reasonable with ya’ll, but I just don’t see how this is going to adversely affect me. I mean if my activation fails and I call MS, they ARE going to help me, bottom line, you guys act like they are going to say “screw you”, people who call about XP activation can attest that this is extremely painless, I have never heard of them refusing to give an activation code if you call, even for the lamest excuses where obviously BS is going on. Same for any programs I install, the company is GOING to help me, and they know no one is going to tolerate the crap breaking and them not providing a fix, they will plan for it ahead of time and be ready, I’m sure. There haven’t been big problems with XP or Norton activation, so I just don’t see what the fuss is, except maybe “I don’t want to pay for software & music so please oppose palladium for me” in disguise. I want the thieving to stop, it’s humiliating to these companies to be ripped off and I think the psychological effect is that it leads to inferior quality in the product to know half the people who use your software or listen to your music are going to do so illegally, why try to improve things for theives? As far as encryption, yes, don’t be a fool and encrypt something irreplaceable with a hardware based key, if the hardware goes you are SOL, I don’t see this as a strike against palladium however, I mean either don’t encrypt your stuff with it, or use something that has a password key so stuff can be restored if the hardware cooks itself but the disk is still accessible, like PGPDisk, it will be no different for 99.9% of people computing today, who do it legally. They will pay for their software/music, put it on their computer and run/play it, never knowing palladium even exists. The pirates will (hopefully) be screwed, and of course, there will be that 1 in 1000 or so person who has a problem, I feel sorry for them and all, but that doesn’t outweigh the right of software companies and media producers to insure that their products are securable.
As far as looking forward to longhorn, it should be like Win2K3 times 10, more secure, much faster (the graphics will be hardware accelerated and you can turn off WinFS if you don’t need it), much prettier, and have many more features. Yes, I can’t wait. Linux is cool and all, but why can’t we like MS? They just haven’t proven to be as evil as their haters have maintained. It’s always “As soon as MS implements X, you’re all going to be their slaves! The sky is falling!” type crap, and when X passes, nothing’s different. Always in the future we are going to be MS slaves.. well whatever, you’ve cried wolve too much, now it will have to actually happen before people revolt. As easily worked up as people are with hollow propaganda, I’m sure if MS puts us into slavery, you open source fundamentalists will come to our rescue and motivate us to save ourselves, then we will all use linux and worship you like a king for having such forsight while we were all so stupid, won’t that be nice? :rolleyes:
By the way, don’t Longhorn’s gore people?
Don’t panther’s eat people? Don’t people choke on mandrakes? What’s your point, idiot..
>”Mplayer uses the official codecs, so no, it doesn’t make its own.
But how can it? Its illegal to reverse engineer this stuff, and I doubt MS will open up their formats anytime soon.
Don’t blame the victims, unless you want them to go to jail? 😉”
1)MPlayer does *NOT* use the official codecs, it uses libavcodec.
2)There is a port of mplayer for win32 [http://oss.netfarm.it/mplayer-win32.php], and it even has directx suport 😛
3)Wasnt microsoft that develeped the AVI file format 😛
Personally I’m willing to give up a little freedom and convenience to stop thieves, I think most people in their heats feel the same. Assuming they can come up with a fool proof way to prevent digital copying of software and media (it’s possible, just questionable whether the involved parties are going to implement it right or make something weak like CSS).
Activation is a failed method, even the likes of SUN are giving up using node locking passwords. Imagine everytime you install Solaris on x86, you get a completely new node, meaning, you would have to re-“activate” your copy of Forte Developer.
SUN now, in their new development range have well and truely given up and have just stuck with a serial number.
I’m trying to be reasonable with ya’ll, but I just don’t see how this is going to adversely affect me. I mean if my activation fails and I call MS, they ARE going to help me, bottom line, you guys act like they are going to say “screw you”, people who call about XP activation can attest that this is extremely painless, I have never heard of them refusing to give an activation code if you call, even for the lamest excuses where obviously BS is going on.
I’ve rung up Microsoft, then put through to an operator after the touch-tone activation failed. I get put through to a person who can’t understand the difference between a nine and a six, and having to repeat numbers up to 4 times just for them to under stand.
If they want activation, good for them, however, what I expect is prompt, friendly service by a person who can actually speak and understand English.
Same for any programs I install, the company is GOING to help me, and they know no one is going to tolerate the crap breaking and them not providing a fix, they will plan for it ahead of time and be ready, I’m sure. There haven’t been big problems with XP or Norton activation, so I just don’t see what the fuss is, except maybe “I don’t want to pay for software & music so please oppose palladium for me” in disguise.
Having never used “Norton Activation” I can’t really comment, however, regarding XP and palladium, if it means that the software is locked to the motherboard and thus only requires re-activation if the motherboard ic changed, I am all for it.
I want the thieving to stop, it’s humiliating to these companies to be ripped off and I think the psychological effect is that it leads to inferior quality in the product to know half the people who use your software or listen to your music are going to do so illegally, why try to improve things for theives?
But that is the Windows generation, “Free, Free, Free, all for me!”. These are the same people who whine about Mac’s costing $1899, the same people who whine that they have to pay $599 ( http://www.iswh.com.au/nav/searchengine.asp?level2=returned&rangefr… ) for a full version. When I owned a PC, I was more than happy to pay $599 for Windows or $749 for Office.
What gets me annoyed is that I have done the honest thing since I first bought a computer. I bought licenses when needed them, payed for upgrades, when through the license with a fine tooth comb to ensure I abide by the T&C’s. Where is *MY* reward? I get a warm fuzzy feeling, but where is the “thank you” by the Microsofts, Adobes and Macromedias of the world?
As far as encryption, yes, don’t be a fool and encrypt something irreplaceable with a hardware based key, if the hardware goes you are SOL, I don’t see this as a strike against palladium however, I mean either don’t encrypt your stuff with it, or use something that has a password key so stuff can be restored if the hardware cooks itself but the disk is still accessible, like PGPDisk, it will be no different for 99.9% of people computing today, who do it legally. They will pay for their software/music, put it on their computer and run/play it, never knowing palladium even exists. The pirates will (hopefully) be screwed, and of course, there will be that 1 in 1000 or so person who has a problem, I feel sorry for them and all, but that doesn’t outweigh the right of software companies and media producers to insure that their products are securable.
You must be VERY optimistic about the average person. If you took out the corporate sales, almost every software company would be bankrupt. I doubt that even 1/2 the Photoshop software being used now by home users is actually legal, same goes for Office, Norton Anti-Virus and other sundry applications.
As far as looking forward to longhorn, it should be like Win2K3 times 10, more secure, much faster (the graphics will be hardware accelerated and you can turn off WinFS if you don’t need it), much prettier, and have many more features. Yes, I can’t wait. Linux is cool and all, but why can’t we like MS? They just haven’t proven to be as evil as their haters have maintained. It’s always “As soon as MS implements X, you’re all going to be their slaves! The sky is falling!” type crap, and when X passes, nothing’s different. Always in the future we are going to be MS slaves.. well whatever, you’ve cried wolve too much, now it will have to actually happen before people revolt. As easily worked up as people are with hollow propaganda, I’m sure if MS puts us into slavery, you open source fundamentalists will come to our rescue and motivate us to save ourselves, then we will all use linux and worship you like a king for having such forsight while we were all so stupid, won’t that be nice?
Yeap, there is so much motivation by the Linux community that I received a deafening silence when I suggested a “Linux native application porting scheme”. I was ready to start it off with $1000. Not one person.
If Microsoft is going to enslave us and Linux is our “freedom”, expect no applications in this so-called “utopia”.
@Maser: Right. That’s exactly it. MS doesn’t want to be “too” good. The problem with IE was not that it was “too” good, but that it was bundled with the OS. Monopolies (and MS is a monopoly according to the government) have limits on their activities here in the US. If you don’t like it, then move.
@Kobol: Wait, configurable shortcuts aren’t built-into Windows? Pretty much every KDE app has a configurable shortcuts dialog in KDE because its built-in to the DE. I’m not trying to troll, but that’s pretty shocking to learn.
You make reasonable arguments, but it’s really the principle that’s at stake here. Do I really want my computer telling me what software I can and can’t run? Even the government doesn’t have that right, as far as I’m concerned, why would Microsoft or any other corporation?
You’re happy about DRM? Good for you. But some of us expect our machines to do what we tell them to with no questions asked.
Personally I’m willing to give up a little freedom and convenience to stop thieves, I think most people in their heats feel the same.
>>>>>>>>
You know, there is quote by some guy named Ben Franklin about that.
Assuming they can come up with a fool proof way to prevent digital copying of software and media (it’s possible
>>>>>>>>
You know, the rate of theft in China is pretty low. You can’t get foolproof copying. You can get close by taking away all the freedom of the user, but at that point, the only thing that happens is that breaking the law is only possible for the very rich, or the very skilled.
I mean if my activation fails and I call MS,
>>>>>>>>
Do they have a toll-free number yet? Last time I checked, MS tech support was a long-distance call to Washington state.
they ARE going to help me, bottom line, you guys act like they are going to say “screw you”, people who call about XP activation can attest that this is extremely painless,
>>>>>>>>>
Well, it does involve reading out a 50 character code and typing in a 30 character ID, so I wouldn’t say that its “extremely painless.” Moderately painless, maybe. Of course, then you have to deal with wait times and whatnot. Overall, I see no point in going through all that to use a product I bought. And will it be so easy when you try to activate your 2002 copy of XP 6 years from now? I remember when I tried to call MS tech support for Win95 (it was 2001 at the time) they were less than helpful.
<ranting about Palladium not being so bad>
>>>>>>>
You’re a good little consumer, aren’t you? Trusting content providers and the like. I stopped trusting Microsoft when I found out that I had to upgrade to Win98 to use my Sidewinder joystick, even the OSR2 had USB support. Historically, they *have* used technology to jerk their users around, I see no reason to believe that they’ve changed. Remember, you’re the customer. They serve *you* not the other way around. To put it bluntly, its people like you and the consumerist mentality that they promote that are destroying democracy around the world. Modern democracy is built on some harsh and unforgiving principles of freedom. There is *no* compromising them, especially not for the latest Christina Aguilera CD.
It’s always “As soon as MS implements X, you’re all going to be their slaves!
>>>>>>>>>
When Microsoft came into the Office market, nobody believed that they were going to take over. MS Office was actually a pretty crappy product for a good while. Now, MS Office is a major roadblock for people switching to alternative OSs. Microsoft’s history is full of stuff like this. I’m not taking any chances from now on.
Don’t panther’s eat people? Don’t people choke on mandrakes? >>>>>>>>>
Not really…
@Maser: Right. That’s exactly it. MS doesn’t want to be “too” good. The problem with IE was not that it was “too” good, but that it was bundled with the OS. Monopolies (and MS is a monopoly according to the government) have limits on their activities here in the US.
Paint comes with windows, I think photoshop is still doing pretty good, notepad comes with windows, people shell out for Office to get word, MSN is the default search, people mostly use google. Sorry, the “it comes with the OS is the reason people use it” excuse is no good, might’ve worked on that fool jackson, who didn’t consider Mac OS and linux to be operating systems, but there is tonnes of evidence against this fallacy. Bottom line is, MS puts in a basic program, if someone makes a better one, it WILL get brought and used, if no one makes a better one, why they can whine to the government..just as good I guess..
If you don’t like it, then move.
According to the first amendment, I am allowed to stay and voice my opinion, maybe you should move if you don’t like THAT.
You make reasonable arguments, but it’s really the principle that’s at stake here. Do I really want my computer telling me what software I can and can’t run? Even the government doesn’t have that right, as far as I’m concerned, why would Microsoft or any other corporation?
You’re happy about DRM? Good for you. But some of us expect our machines to do what we tell them to with no questions asked.[/i]
What do you think your machine isn’t going to do with DRM? The only thing it won’t do is run protected software without a license, is that what you want? To keep robbing your fellow citizens and contribute to a sinking economy? I’m guessing you didn’t mean that, but there is no other way DRM is going to affect you (except to give better data security to users, don’t know if you need that though..)
And the government DOES have the right to tell you what you can and cannot run on your computer, don’t know why you believe differently..
Paint comes with windows, I think photoshop is still doing pretty good, notepad comes with windows, people shell out for Office to get word
>>>>>>>>>
Are you joking me? If paint did half of what Photoshop did, do you think Photoshop would do so well? There is nothing wrong with shipping featureful software with the OS, but there is something wrong about abusing monopoly power to control new markets. Geez. Microsoft has the leading support in all sorts of markets, but it only really makes money on Office and Windows. Doesn’t that bother you?
Bottom line is, MS puts in a basic program, if someone makes a better one, it WILL get brought and used, if no one makes a better one, why they can whine to the government..just as good I guess..
>>>>>>>>>
Right. Mozilla is tons better than IE. Its got popup blocking built in, is more conformant to the standard, has tabs, etc. Yet, IE has a much larger userbase. Your theory that the best software will get used is totally contrary to the entire history of the computing world. People don’t like choices. If the bundled one is even remotely competitive, they’ll use it, even if much better competition is available. Most will be unaware that they even have a choice.
According to the first amendment, I am allowed to stay and voice my opinion, maybe you should move if you don’t like THAT.
>>>>>>>>>>
You’re allowed to voice your opinion, and I’m allowed to point out that opinion is flawed.
I’m guessing you didn’t mean that, but there is no other way DRM is going to affect you (except to give better data security to users, don’t know if you need that though..)
>>>>>>>>>>>
With Palladium, Microsoft has the ability to take formats that can now at least be reverse engineered (like Word) and effectively make them Windows-only. *And* it can make any efforts to interoperate illegal due to the DMCA. It would be trivial for them to do so, and they could do it in a way where 99% of Windows-using public wouldn’t even notice. We’re already starting to see this. Non-Windows users are locked out of services like PressPlay because of DRM protections. I paid for my first month of Rhapsody until I realized that I couldn’t stream music in Linux. I promptly canceled my subscription.
And the government DOES have the right to tell you what you can and cannot run on your computer, don’t know why you believe differently..
>>>>>>>>
What country do you live in? There are some things that are illegal in the US (like distributing child pornography) but they are extreme cases, and covered by more general distribution and posession laws. They, by no strech of the imagination, dictate what you can run on your computer.
Are you joking me? If paint did half of what Photoshop did, do you think Photoshop would do so well? There is nothing wrong with shipping featureful software with the OS, but there is something wrong about abusing monopoly power to control new markets. Geez. Microsoft has the leading support in all sorts of markets, but it only really makes money on Office and Windows. Doesn’t that bother you?
That’s exactly my point, paint doesn’t do half what photoshop does because adobe is on top of their game and above putting out a shitty product and whining to the government about the situation, they are an example of how to be a player. And no it does not bother me that MS makes money on just windows and office but makes tonnes of products, I think it’s something called capitalism and freedom. Why do people act like bill gates is not an invidual with rights, I don’t know.. If you have 50 billion dollars you are allowed to actually spend that money. Geez, thank god MS puts out good products and takes a loss on them, good for the consumer, if they earned money, I guarentee you’d be complaining that that was even MORE monopolistic, “Oh, they make money everywhere, do you think anyone else could do that?” or something similar. Anyway, I’m just at the point where I don’t think MS could do anything to help MS that would be acceptable to any of its critics, it’s become too irrational a debate almost.
Ya I am a little pro-MS I just think they get the bad rap for very little, I mean this anti-MS people act like they’re saving the bloody world, but cheer that china uses their favorite OS, the murderer of more people than any other nation in history, btw. I mean I am supposed to swallow thta these guys are about JUSTICE?? Riiight. They’d make a claus in the GPL to prevent the murderer of some 80 million people from using their damn OS I’d think..
Right. Mozilla is tons better than IE. Its got popup blocking built in, is more conformant to the standard, has tabs, etc. Yet, IE has a much larger userbase. Your theory that the best software will get used is totally contrary to the entire history of the computing world. People don’t like choices. If the bundled one is even remotely competitive, they’ll use it, even if much better competition is available. Most will be unaware that they even have a choice.
Whoa wait a minute, that’s YOUR opinion, that it’s “tonnes better”, but I think most users if they used mozilla and IE equally would choose IE. Ok I know you’re not a believer, but I think they are more like me, they are not “hard core surfers” they want convenience and speed, I hate tabs for instance and pop up blocking in mozilla sucks because lots of sites use legitimate pop ups that you have to manage in mozilla. IE has pop up blocking, just add the site to restricted zone, I find this as troublesome as tooling with mozilla. Plus speed, IE kills mozilla, now I’ve argued this before and mozilla users swear up and down it’s because MS loads “sekrit IE filez” at startup, maybe. I just think of IE as “quick and dirty” and I think that is what people want, fast and light. For the sake of argument let’s say mozilla is better than IE, as if that were even something concrete and universal, it’s not good enough, and the OS needs a browser, every OS has one and even if they didn’t I believe anyone should have the right to make any program they want without government interference. I have tonnes more to say on this topic but I get tired of writing fast, and I haven’t even replied to half your posts yet, so I’ll leave off here and see what you come up with. But I will add, that I would agree to making MS include alternative browsers and asking which one you want installed at setup time, IF, only IF, all support calls to MS about the third party browser get routed directly to the company that made it. MS shouldn’t pay a DIME For someone elses code, that would just be too much, and IF it shut up most the criticism. Most MS supporters are against all measures against MS cause they KNOW no matter what, the critics will just change targets as soon as they get a concession. If MS included an alternative browser, then it’d be monopolistic because “well uses have a choice, but they still have to use windows”, etc etc. Once you’ve seen enough of these arguments you see a pattern, wherein MS can’t win no matter what it does. Make a profit = monopoly, give consumer a good deal and lose money = monopoly, etc etc.
MS can die, is about all I think would make their critics happy. While entitled to that stance, they should be honest about their beliefs and stop acting like “well if MS would JUST DO X (X being some seemingly little trivial thing) then everything would be hunky dorey.” Ok ok I got to move on now.
With Palladium, Microsoft has the ability to take formats that can now at least be reverse engineered (like Word) and effectively make them Windows-only
In this coountry we don’t punish people for what they have the ability to do, hence why you can own a gun and car. With your logic I could say “you have the ability to run over school children, no car for you.” MS hasn’t announced that, if they wanted, they could do it now, they don’t because people won’t stand for it, and people will be so expecting MS to pull something (they are “teh eval” after all) after palladium ships that MS wouldn’t even dare try something like that. Sorry this is scare tactics, another “MS is going to enslave us RSN” theory. Complain about what they’ve done and what they plan to do, not what they might do. Hell, linus MIGHT rip off a lot of code and include it in linux 3.0, years after migrating to linux, it MIGHT be discovered and you MIGHT be forced to revert to a 5 year old (and therefore ancient and non-functional in the computing universe) version and that MIGHT destroy your business. MIGHT happen, never know. I mean come on.
*And* it can make any efforts to interoperate illegal due to the DMCA. It would be trivial for them to do so, and they could do it in a way where 99% of Windows-using public wouldn’t even notice. We’re already starting to see this. Non-Windows users are locked out of services like PressPlay because of DRM protections. I paid for my first month of Rhapsody until I realized that I couldn’t stream music in Linux. I promptly canceled my subscription.
I’m sure if someone brought a license and implemented a proper program to read the formats on linux, it’d work.
And this is different than word formats, because that’s user data, whereas this is some companies data that you are licensing. And it’s not like you can’t get the same music from another company or another source. MS just isn’t going to lock user files, that’s nothign more than a ridiculous scare tactic. I guess logic can’t solve everything, I’m just of the opinion businesses should be allowed to control things they make. It’s not a government service, you aren’t ENTITLED to music from pressplay and an non-browser having OS from MS, I have to wonder what country YOU’RE in, definitely not the one I live in with the bill of rights of free guarenteeing amendments..?
What country do you live in? There are some things that are illegal in the US (like distributing child pornography) but they are extreme cases, and covered by more general distribution and posession laws. They, by no strech of the imagination, dictate what you can run on your computer.
You contradicted yourself, they do so have the right to dictate what can run on your computer, you listed an example of what cannot be run, child porn for example, others would be unlicensed software and music. That is the government dictating what can be run on your computer. It’s pretty bizaar to talk of losing a freedom you don’t have. Now palladium will make it harder to violate the law, but that’s it. And I do live in the US if that’s not clear from my writing and ip address.
When I write about wpa and drm, I’m discussing how I’m going to have to deal with recovering from a hardware failure.
I never brought up stealing or freedom. I’m saying that recovering from hardware failures (or maybe even software failures) in this 2k3 X10 thing – it might be difficult. I didn’t even bring up that fact in the current winXP there is no _native_ utility that can make a _full_ back up of your installation (of course unless you can afford the solution).
I have a _real_ _problem_ with having to depend on another companies servers to give me access to _my_ _legal_ software and data. What happens when the Net is down and the phones go to voicemail (no that’s never happened). I’m going to tell my boss that were so much more secure, now that we can’t run are computers and we have to hand write our invoices.
I can install my Linux distribution of choice on _any_ hardware at _any_ time. And, oh yeah, using Linux doesn’t mean I don’t purchase software services. I get help when I need my systems back from a failure or shortcoming – not a salesman telling me I need to purchase something else if I want to do that…
That’s exactly my point, paint doesn’t do half what photoshop does because adobe is on top of their game and above putting out a shitty product and whining to the government about the situation, they are an example of how to be a player.
You completely misunderstand Microsofts whole business stratergy. Microsoft is the Dell of the software industry. Microsoft will *ONLY* enter a market where there is a large demand for a product that they can put out at a low cost.
Everyone has to run an operating system and such, they sell Windows. Everyone uses Office at work, and as such, sells it. Microsoft is never going to go after Adobe Photoshop. Microsoft does compete to some degree with Adobe Photoshop Elements (Photoshop Lite) via their photo touch-up programme, however, even with that being said, the vast majority will stick with Photoshop because Microsofts offering lacks the features.
Those features are lacking because it would drive up the cost of their product and put themselves into a different customer base.
And no it does not bother me that MS makes money on just windows and office but makes tonnes of products, I think it’s something called capitalism and freedom. Why do people act like bill gates is not an invidual with rights, I don’t know.. If you have 50 billion dollars you are allowed to actually spend that money. Geez, thank god MS puts out good products and takes a loss on them, good for the consumer, if they earned money, I guarentee you’d be complaining that that was even MORE monopolistic, “Oh, they make money everywhere, do you think anyone else could do that?” or something similar. Anyway, I’m just at the point where I don’t think MS could do anything to help MS that would be acceptable to any of its critics, it’s become too irrational a debate almost.
Most people who complain either because they’re poor and can’t afford the software or they hate Microsoft simply because they can’t look after their computer.
I’ve run Windows 2000 and XP. Never had one crash in the whole time I ran it. What does that tell you? it tells you that I didn’t stuff around with hardware, run software tweakers or do things that Microsoft advises against.
The reason why I don’t like running Windows is the lack of a UNIX like CLI without the need of buying or downloading “addons”, apart from that, I find Windows a very workable environment.
Ya I am a little pro-MS I just think they get the bad rap for very little, I mean this anti-MS people act like they’re saving the bloody world, but cheer that china uses their favorite OS, the murderer of more people than any other nation in history, btw. I mean I am supposed to swallow thta these guys are about JUSTICE?? Riiight. They’d make a claus in the GPL to prevent the murderer of some 80 million people from using their damn OS I’d think..
What has China have to do with GPL or Linux? The bombing of Cambodia, which was authorise by Herry Kisenger, against the legal requirement of seeking authorisation from the congress as well as going against Nixons promise of not spreading the war outside Vietnam.
There have been alot more people killed due to bad economic management in China than “crack downs”. The great leap forward would be a prime example of this.
China see that Microsofts close relationship with the US government makes it an entity that they can’t trust. Can blame them? Of all the technology companies around the world, Microsoft is the most US centric. From the lack of local call centres to the lack of ability of understanding local values in regards to handling customers, it is no wonder that their profits fell in Asia-Pacific and Europe.
“I’m guessing you didn’t mean that, but there is no other way DRM is going to affect you (except to give better data security to users, don’t know if you need that though..)”
All childish MS bashing aside, even you would have to admit they have engaged in, let’s say, questionable business practices. We don’t have to drag all that up again, we all know some of the things they done, and so the point is that Microsoft can assure me that they can’t or won’t use DRM to edge out the competition, to keep out Open Source, to not further extend their monopoly …They can assure me of all these things, but they’ve not earned that kind of trust.
As for the government, of course it can tell me what not to run, but what I meant was, if it wants to mandate this kind of thing in computers that would be a different story than if a corporation is doing it. It would still be invasion of privacy in my mind, sort of like cyber-house arrest. If I do something illegal, they can come and arrest me. But until I do, I shouldn’t be treated like a criminal.
This is not some silly Microsoft is taking over the universe rant, it’s just about drawing lines how far corporations can go.
And I do not buy that “sinking economy” reasoning. Like CDs and DVDs, if the stuff wasn’t so overpriced, there be much less piracy.
And I do not buy that “sinking economy” reasoning. Like CDs and DVDs, if the stuff wasn’t so overpriced, there be much less piracy.
How about just not buying it? there are lots of things I would love to buy but I realise that either I have to save up or it is just way out of my purchasing power.
I can’t afford Photoshop or InDesign so I go for the next best thing, Corel Graphics Suite. Sure, some “artists” will shudder, but for what I need to do, even that is an overkill.
If you can’t afford Windows, don’t run it, look for a cheaper alternative. When you purchase the cheaper alternative, there is always a downside, either the product is inferior in quality, harder to use or incompatible.
You have to weigh those downsides up against what you’re willing to pay. If you don’t want to learn how to use an operating system and computer terms, then maybe spending $599 is good value, however, if you are willing to learn the necessary things then maybe Linux or FreeBSD is best for your needs.