“Several weeks ago, we cocked a collective eyebrow at Sun. When executive VP Jonathan Schwartz said “we do not believe that Linux plays a role on the server. Period,” we didn’t have much of a choice. Our read on the statement was that it was more than a little hyperbolic, perhaps fueled by bitterness at Linux making lunch meat of Solaris x86.” Read the article at ServerWatch.
Solaris x86 Resurgent, Sun’s Side of the Story
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I guess we should simply ingnore anything Sun says because its probable that they are just saying silly stuff to ‘be quotable’?
Is there any way we can tell if a Sun executive is being serious or just shooting his mouth off?
If it comes from McNealy, oh thats just a joke – hes a clown in a penguin suit. If it comes from Schwartz – oh no, hes just being quotable, nothing serious to communicate. So now this next guy is the official spokesperson for what ‘Sun is really up to’ until he puts his foot in it bigtime.
I mean whats next – “oh yeah we’re dropping support for Solaris x86 again, the idea we were going to get behind it, oh that was just us ‘being quotable'”
Do these guys not realise, or just not care that they are losing their credibility with every braindead statement or half-truth they produce.
Oh, I understand now. Sun isn’t competing with “white box” companies. They sell “systems”. Just like Microsoft, with their integrated product line!
What a mess. I think the entire management staff and board of Sun Microsystems needs to resign.
Oracle is porting every piece of software they’ve got to Solaris x86, starting with Oracle 11g.
Let’s see Linux and Solaris fight it out.
Solaris needs to quickly develop a large user base for x86 and x86-64 if they want to remain competitive with Linux. They are also going to have to make certain that Solaris x86 stays on top of Linux and HP-UX technology wise. SUN should spend like crazy on research and development and focus heavily on Solaris and JAVA.
If SUN is wise, they should begin by promoting Linux both on the desktop and server front rather than deriding it. They should also provide customers with choices they need/want rather than force purchase decisions down their throats.
If a customer wants linux on the server give that to them. If they want solaris on the desktop give that to them. If the want Linux on a sparc machine, give that to them. Heck, if they want both, just give it to them.
That’s being smart, that’s being flexible, that’s listening to the needs of their customers. SUN is bound to fail and fail miserably with the strategy it is currently following. IBM and HP-UX will be in the game much longer.
I also need to add that Linux isn’t attractive to customers/corporations because it is superior than Solaris is, but because it is more flexible that Solaris is technically and otherwise.
The Linux kernel isn’t more flexible than Solaris in the most rigorous sense. In specific when regarding how they operating system handles data structures and the design of its algorithms. Solaris scales very well and supports a huge number of simultaneous threads, files, and other structures. It also supports very large file and memory sizes, various page sizes, etc. It is also fully pre-emptible so that it can be more responsive to application requests even when under heavy load.
If you are referring in specific to Linux as far as platform support (that depends on the distribution), you would be correct. Linux is supported on more platforms. Linux is also supported on more types of hardware, devices, and has many more software applications ported specifically for it.
Linux under the almost production 2.6 kernel is scalable to a large number of processors (I think 32) and can now run under NUMA configurations, it has more fine-grained kernel locks, and its threading model has been dramatically improved. There are also a lot of other improvements. Linux is soon going to get a face-lift on their enterprise level scalability. In fact I’ll bet this is a lot of why SCO did what they did, really spanks Unixware.
“If a customer wants linux on the server give that to them. If they want solaris on the desktop give that to them. If the want Linux on a sparc machine, give that to them. Heck, if they want both, just give it to them.”
Sun does ship linux on the server. Ever heard of the v60x and v65x.
BTW, even HP and IBM the so called proponents of linux don’t offer linux across the board on all thier products. Tried getting a laptop from either with linux preinstalled and supported?
Have you tried buying a RS6000 or any power workstation series with linux. Exactly. Because you can’t. IBM runs linux on pseries and iseries server on logical partitions under VM as on their mainframes.
Why should sun support linux on all thier products? Can you name one other platform other than cheap x86 boxes linux is prevelant on?
Linux has no demand on SPARC.
Linux for sparc has no demand thus redhat and suse dropped support for sparc. How come RedHat and SUSE don’t port their distribution for SPARC/ppc/PARISC/ALPHA/XSCALE/ARM/MIPS. Well as a potential customer I really think they should support every architecture on the planet, does that make sense? Well they claim to be a linux company they really should support linux on all platforms right?
The reason they don’t is because there is no demand for linux on any platform other than on cheap x86 boxes and IBM is using linux as a brand name to saell thier propriatery Main Frames which was a dying business. I was offered a job in their database division for OS/390. It was so properietary they used a language called plx to write the whole software. The whole interview was trying to sell thier mainframe business. They never asked one technical question and offered me a job. That’s how desperate they were. I remember asking if they were going to support or do any linux work and the answer was “No”.
I guess thier tune has chenged in the last 3 years. But if you think IBM is linux’s friend think again, they are using it as a marketing tactic.
Sun is atleast honest about it’s stance on linux and not hypocritical like HP or IBM. They day I see linux on every IBM product is they day I will believe they are serious about linux.
SUN should focus on delivering workstation and server solutions based on Ultrasparc/x86 Solaris, Java, StarOffice, SUN ONE and superior customer support. Selling software that runs on Linux might also be a good idea but they don’t need their own Linux distro.
They should stop fighting with Microsoft and focus both of their efforts on their common enemy in IBM and its’ attemtps to weaken them both by co-opting Linux and Java. Linux should be viewed as just another platform to sell software for.
SUN should also finally buy APPLE outright, replace Darwin with Solaris as the Unix Core and standardize the CPU on Ultrasparc technology. This will give them an effective end to end solution based on SUN technology.
SuSE does offer a PPC and PPC64 port. Also, why would SUN want to buy Apple. That would be the worst thing they could do. IBM is making Apples chips, are they going to buy Apple and do another chip switch and then port all of the software over and the customers are just going to smile. That should be fun. They would never dream of selling SPARCs for the desktop, there is no way that TI could handle the demand, well I guess they could but I would be genuinely shocked. If they were to buy Apple that would destroy any focus they may have once had.
SUN focusing on commodity x86 for the low-end is a brilliant move. They should support Linux only as much as they have to and concentrate on Solaris and Java. Because of their pricing model with Linux, they do need their own distribution of Linux, it is based almost wholly on SuSE Linux so their development on Linux is not huge.
“perhaps fueled by bitterness at Linux making lunch meat of Solaris x86”
Linux is not to blame for Solaris x86’s failure to make adequate in roads in installed base and new server/desktop marketshare. Sun Microsystems is the only one that can take responsibility. If they had priced it competitively, kept up with hardware support, and marketed it to developers like they should have, Solaris x86 would not be statistical noise in the x86 compatible OS market. Sun needs to quit blaming others for it’s own mistakes.
I also need to add that Linux isn’t attractive to customers/corporations because it is superior than Solaris is, but because it is more flexible that Solaris is technically and otherwise.
You keep telling your self that honey, one day, it might actually come true.
Whilst you’re living in a work of make believes, pixies and unicorns, IT staff aren’t downloading the latest kernel and compiling each release so they can squeeze and extra micron of speed out of the machine. The IT is ensuring that their network of systems is working like a swiss time piece.
When people like you bring emotion and rhetoric into the whole debate, you instantly lose.
Let me be blunt; people don’t care about opensource, either now, later or in the very far future. People want software and hardware that work together to fullfill a job, not to suite some religious pilgramage some linux fanboys think they’re on.
Linux is not to blame for Solaris x86’s failure to make adequate in roads in installed base and new server/desktop marketshare. Sun Microsystems is the only one that can take responsibility. If they had priced it competitively, kept up with hardware support, and marketed it to developers like they should have, Solaris x86 would not be statistical noise in the x86 compatible OS market. Sun needs to quit blaming others for it’s own mistakes.
Who said Solaris x86 target is the desktop? bloody heck, how many times must I repeat it:
SOLARIS X86 AND SPARC ON THE SERVER; LINUX ON THE DESKTOP
Read, repeat and chant 5 times per day. One day people here will finally get it.
btw, Solaris x86 HAS won converts. There was an article a while back naming 2-3 high profile companies who have moved from Windows to Solaris x86. Proof in the pudding. If the Linux fanboys can’t handle it, well, maybe they should have “time out” until they calm down out of their Linux driven delusional dream land.
Solaris X86 and SPARC on the server and Solaris X86 on the workstation.
What you don’t seem to get is that IT and Execs prefer single vendor solutions hence why so many companies converted servers to Microsoft’s server platform. Tight integration and easy configuration between the server and client. Less headaches means that IT gets to go home on time at the end of the day.
Linux is a nightmare of unstandardized software. No standard desktop, Office suite, installation system, etc..
The other problem is the fragmentation in the Linux versions – SUSE, REDHAT, etc.. all of which could go out of business overnight. Linux is a platform that’s trying to be turned into a business by too many different vendors. Sound familiar?.
Anyway, while Linux has a place in business, I don’t think that place is behind the firewall.
Suse might offer a PPC or PPC64 but only for IBM’s power chips. I doubt you could install it on a mac.
The point still stands that it is unreasonable to expect Sun to support/port linux to all thier hardware when even linux companies such as SUSE and RedHat don’t support all hardware configs just x86 and some IBM systems (due to corporate deals).
Furthermore, even IBM and HP don’t sell linux with all the hardware in thier catalog. I think sun is about par on it’s linux support. Most if it’s software stack runs on linux (JDS, JES, Staroffice, java SDK/JRE), they have x86 servers with linux, solaris on x86 has linux compatible layer called lxrun and most opensource compilers and libraries are shipped on the companion CD for the sparc versions (making it possible to compile any linux software on solaris SPARC). About on par with IBM, Dell, HP. Well for a company most people say is against linux that is pretty good. Companies like IBM and HP are using linux as a marketting tool. Think about it they will sell whatever makes them money linux, windows, HPUX AIX. For them the OS is a means to an end. If you think tomorrow any of the BSDs gains more popularity than linux, they wouldn’t just drop linux and run away with the BSDs you would be kidding yourself.
If you really think that linux wasn’t such a media darling they would support it. What about other opensource OSes like freebsd. How come they don’t have servers or workstations running those. Because they are not linux and the media won’t laud you for carrying them on your pricelist and customers want linux because it is the cool thing right now because every media out let is screaming linux.
Linux and opensource is great. I am yet to see something really cool come out of it. Almost every cool feature about linux is a reimplementation of a closed source tech or contributed by closed source companies like SGI, IBM and intel trying to show the world they have a linux strategy. Companies like SGI which is using linux as a last leg to stand on has a great deal to milk out of the hype. IBM is trying to use linux to become almighty again after the mistake it made with microsoft and DOS. Intel just wants to sell as many chips as possible and use free technology to test thier chips in labs.
If contributions of source code are a marker to linux/OSS support then sun has contributed just as much to OpenSource if not more than the other. A small list: Openoffice (the only viable office suite on linux), NFS (imagine linux without NFS), slab allocator (implemented by sun for SVR4 discribed in many papers and books picked up and reimplemented by linux) many many SVR4 technologies reimplemented in the linux kernel albiet through clean room reimplementation.
Solaris X86 and SPARC on the server and Solaris X86 on the workstation.
What you don’t seem to get is that IT and Execs prefer single vendor solutions hence why so many companies converted servers to Microsoft’s server platform. Tight integration and easy configuration between the server and client. Less headaches means that IT gets to go home on time at the end of the day.
Linux is a nightmare of unstandardized software. No standard desktop, Office suite, installation system, etc..
The other problem is the fragmentation in the Linux versions – SUSE, REDHAT, etc.. all of which could go out of business overnight. Linux is a platform that’s trying to be turned into a business by too many different vendors. Sound familiar?.
Anyway, while Linux has a place in business, I don’t think that place is behind the firewall.
That is why SUN is offering a Linux “powered desktop” but with the whole thing standardised and able to interoperate with Solaris servers.
Unlike the 700 cd distros that come in a book case when delivered, SUN has one CD, one of everything that one would need on a corporate desktop, GNOME, StarOffice 7, Evolution 1.4.3. Evolution via a free plugin can syncronise with their messenging and calandering server, the Instant Messenging tool hooks into the Instant Messening server which uses JXTA for the protocol. Later on we’ll see integration between StarOffice 7 and the SUN One Application Server, IIRC, mid next year, which will given Java “powered” SharePoint like services but at half the price and much less complexity.
As for Solaris being the desktop, it is still another 2-3 years alway from being an acceptable solution. Alot of the problems exist in the X server which way behind the SPARC version, the lack of OpenGL support, shocking hardware support; remember XFree86 porting kit is ONLY used as a work around, the whole point of call it a porting is so that people port the drivers natively over to SUN’s X server.