News.com spoke to Bill Gates on the first day of his company’s software developers conference. In the meantime, eWEEK has a mini-review of Longhorn while here is a screenshot of a version of Longhorn that includes Avalon (not included in the PDC beta).
Gates Gambles on Longhorn
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I some how doubt that ms will rewrite thier RPC code in .net.
Microsoft has never had a problem with writing code that burns MIPS. It’s one reason their parternship with Intel has worked so well.
Thus Longhorn implementation (not just API’s) will consist of a lot of managed code that is not present in XP. And Longhorn will take beefy machines to run it.
From the screenshot, it looks very clean compared to anything out there. I wonder if they are going to enable user-controllable FSAA on the final render for the AERO UI.
All in all I have to say it seems Microsoft has stolen enough good ideas to make a go of Longhorn.
MS has talked about innovation for years. Finally it sounds like they may produce something innovative. I’ll have to wait and see but Bill says this is his dream and I have a lot of respect for him. My problem with MS is that I think the operating system the world communicates with must be open so all can trust it. Its about freedom.
Where is the big innovation in Longhorn? The UI is “ispirated” from the Mac (again), the filesystem from BeOS, the Sidebar from OS/2 (!!) etc.
Weird… it seems the sidebar is interacting with IE (amazon orders), and the amazon.com site doesn’t look anything like what it looks here.
the key term factor that drives microsoft is ”
integrated innovation” i.e. pulling different technologies (regardless from where they come) together and offer a consistent and usable experience for both users and developers.
Not i am not a microsoft zealot but to me I really like “integration”, sth unfortunately though I miss from other OS in the pc platform
I hope things improve…
I guess what you see in that screenshots is Web Services in action, not just a web page. It is an application using the .NET framework and with XML and db help, Amazon “feeds” the right information to the client, and then the client is rendering that information as an application. Web pages do the same thing today, but they are restricted by a number of things, while “real” applications offer a more “pro” feel and features.
I think the only reason this looks clean is because its basically just a mock-up of a web page. You can’t see any of the controls or anything like that. The interface also looks very bloated and uneven, with a huge blank area at the top of the window, and tiny little buttons in the corner. The dark background and the way some elements (the text box, the weird button indent on the top-left) appear carved into the background make it seem like they’re taking cues from Brushed Metal. The clock is pretty, but for god’s sake, who can read an analog clock anymore?
WinFS does appear nifty (though not innovative — its been done before) and I sincerely hope it is done properly. I’m waiting for Hans Reiser to get something similar into Linux before Longhorn comes out
The whole IE -> Sidebar integration is nifty, but isn’t something we haven’t seen before. Its really just an extension of the sidebar applets we’ve had since NeXT and probably even before.
I’m a little dissapointed at the look so far. I think that Longhorn’s DirectX accelerated GUI is one of the most promising features of the OS. Again, its not innovative, but the idea hasn’t really seen a full-scale implementation until now. I was hoping that the power of modern GPUs would really allow them to increase the richness of the UI, but it seems to be being used just to make the same old WIMP UI a bit cleaner around the edges.
Yeah, they are as innovative as they’ve always been. looks like Microsoft is doing to their os as Nokia is doing to their mobiles, trying to make the most b**t-ugly design as possible.
I kind of disagree to that Linux isn’t ready for the consumer. It is ready for those who use their computers for simple task as, browsing the web, chatting, e-mail, working with office documents, regular stuff like that. What holds most people back is that they don’t dare to try out a new os. They just don’t want to go throught the some whole deal like when Windows95 came. And that’s mostly why Microsoft still has a monopoly.
And from a personal experience, when I told my girl I was fed up with booting between linux and Windows and wanted here to start using Linux, she was a but scared. But now, she thinks it’s real nice to use. It’s just mather spending some small extra time to see what other alternatives that are out there.
Basicly all os’s that has a GUI you find similarities. You can surf, send e-mail, write documents and other regular stuff. So it’s not that hard to get used to other programs that do the same but have a slightly different look and icons(I think people actually get confused by that).
we’ll just have to see what happens further in the future. Any one can build a car, you just need the manuals, tools and materials. Same as for Linux. but with Windows, just Microsoft is allowed to build that.
That’s all for now.
I wonder if Longhorn will finally be as fast as Samba. Windows 2003 isn’t, by a factor of two or more:
http://www.itweek.co.uk/ITWeek/itw_graph_1144289.jsp
as Eugenia said, its a Web services application, not just a web page. It’s along the lines of the iTunes Music Store, which (I presume) uses XML data from the iTMS to create the interface. The MS one, however, uses it as a plug-in to their browser interface, and uses .NET managed code. It’s like Apple integrated iTunes, Safari, etc into Finder, and it was all written in Cocoa Java. An interesting proposition, but I still prefer the seperate apps, as one wont take down the other. Also, I prefer Path Finder 3 to Finder
Looks like Mr. Hans Hugli in Microsoft’s Lab 06 is gonna get in trouble for leaked screenshots
the WIMP UI is not going anywhere, it will only be modified and continually perfected for a long time to come…I have yet to see anything from academia or any companies R&D that is actually *as* easy or intuitive as the WIMP method.
That looks like an Amazon branded application, pulling data through the use of *Web Services*. I could see Amazon loving this, but do you think they’ll allow it in a fashion that would let you use the same application to browse competing online stores? I’m not sure. 2nd item, is there any standard here re w3c? I.e., can competing applications be built to display the same data on either Windows or another OS (mac/linux/???). If not, then I fail to see how this is good for the consumer.
Yeah, they are as innovative as they’ve always been. looks like Microsoft is doing to their os as Nokia is doing to their mobiles, trying to make the most b**t-ugly design as possible.
What are you talking about, nokia mobiles look great. Ok, so some designs maybe a little too much avant-garde but at least they’re not going for those stupid clamshell designs. If there is one thing european companies are good at it’s design.
C’mon, who wants to be Apple. Let’s go…. who wants to be just like Apple. Who? Who? Oh…. Microsoft. We’ll wait until Apple has done it for years and then, just maybe we’ll add these “revolutionary” features to Windows. Errrtttt!!!!!
……or come up with some ideas of your OWN!
You guys are so full of it sometimes. You keep claiming Microsoft doesn’t innovate, yet open source applications are continually copying Microsoft. Look, you can do the exact same thing with any application.
Let’s take oh so innovative Mozilla. What innovations does it have? Tabs? Nope, sorry, tabs have been used in many other places for a long time. They have even been used in browsers before Mozilla (Opera). Pop up blocker? Nope, this is just filtering software, which has been around for ages. Take a look at webwasher on windows for instance.
Did apache innovate? Nope, web servers where around long before apache. So really, give me a break. If Microsoft is not innovating by applying existing technology in new ways, then certianly the open source community is not innovating either.
I guess the only people who innovate are universities, and while they often release stuff open source, I would not include them as part of the open source community.
I’m really tired of hearing, as the open source community likes to call it, FUD about corporate innovation. You only hurt the open source community by making silly and wrong blanket statements.
Oops, Re: Innovative? post by me.
I wonder if they’ve got round to re-arranging the Windows directory. It hasn’t changed much since 3.x. And it’s a mess! Wallpapers, that clock video (?) and random .INIs dumped at root! Every DLL on earth in system32!
With the use of XAML, it will be interesting to see what desktop mod companies like Stardock does with their software(Windowblinds, DesktopX, etc) for longhorn.
C’mon, who wants to be Windows. Let’s go… who wants to be just like Windows. Who? Who? Who? oh…
Lycoris
Xandros
XPde
Evolution
Lindows
etc…
We’ll wait util Windows has done it for years then, just maybe we’ll add these “revolutionary” ideas/features/looks into Linux!!!!!
…or come up with some ideas of our OWN!
(not defending MS here, but let’s not be so hypocritical)
Frankly, the main thing that I tire of in Windows is all the corperate “placements”. I buy a PC for ME! Not to be sold stuff by MS “partners” constantly. I’ve noticed it in XP and looks like more so in “longhorn” that MS is trying to wrangle your bucks after you shell out for the system. [of course you can’t have 20% growth selling replacements when your ALREADY a monoploy can you! must…have…more…]
MS seems to want to “sell” your PC and your “eyeballs” to the highest bidder. That runs directly contrary to security! They can’t continue to sell out “gaurantees” to companies for placements in crucial parts of the OS thru “backdoors” so power users can’t disable the “features” It’s only ever a matter of time before the “web services” are exploited for all sorts of new viruses, worms etc. It’s time to stop the maddness.
Once they build in popup blocking to IE (like every other browser already has), they will have killed an entire advertising market! Should be interesting to see what happens.
Hmm. My problem isn’t so much with a continuation of the WIMP UI, but this damn thing is the exact same as we’ve been seeing since Win 3.x. Menubar at top, toolbar underneath, scrollbar on right, blah blah blah. Some things I’d like to see:
1) More usage of text. Humans are incredibly adept at reading text, and current UIs don’t take advantage of them. MS is especially terrible at this, leaving to cryptic icons what could be much better done through clear labels. The power of Google (not to mention the CLI
really shows how a streamlined human -> text interface can make a huge amount of information managable.
2) More use of color. Again, humans are good at recognizing color, but current UIs just use them for eye candy. MacOS has the right idea with colored labels, it just needs to be extended to encompass more things.
3) More complex interaction paradigms. While they may be a bit unorthodox, apps like Kai and Truespace showed that you can really streamline the interface by using “rich” UIs.
4) More workflow features. If you use some pro apps like XSI, you’ll see lots of features that really make the UI faster and easier to use. For example, you have an undo stack, extensive use of context menus, task-sensitive toolbars, etc. In AutoCAD, you have a tight CLI-GUI integration, multi-step commands, etc. I’d like to see these features generalized and applied to improving productivity.
5) More eye candy! Again, http://www.xeofreestyle.com <— I want my desktop to look like that
Just cause Microsoft doesn’t innovate, doesn’t mean open source does. Who said Microsoft copied open source? Who said open source doesn’t copy Microsoft? YOU are the only person who brought that up.
Microsoft does all its copying from other comercial proprietary apps/OSes. The ones that DO innovate.
Innovation doesn’t exit; merely a human-created illusion. I think it’s good and healthy and natural that people copy each other, so that ideas flow free, instead of being caged. Though they might get locked up again if MS copies and then patents them
-My twopence
s/exit/exist
Not i am not a microsoft zealot but to me I really like “integration”, sth unfortunately though I miss from other OS in the pc platform
I know there are developers who like integration, but I think it sucks (can I say “sucks” without being modded down?)
Take, for instance, C#. It is a fairly decent language, but to do web stuff with it, you eventually get tied into ASP.NET, which I absolutely hate. Wait, make that Hate; with a capital ‘H’.
The problem with Microsoft’s “integrated innovation” is that they lump all their crap technologies along with the good ones to such a degree that you can’t use the good without accepting the crap.
Okay, I’ll shut up now.
You guys are so full of it sometimes. You keep claiming Microsoft doesn’t innovate, yet open source applications are continually copying Microsoft.
>>>>>>>>>
OSS apps are definately derivative, yes. They usually take good ideas and implement them better. Take, for example, COM/OLE. MS used COM/OLE pretty extensively, but KDE takes KParts and uses it everywhere in the system, turning most apps into mere containers of parts. But yes, overall, they are usually derivative.
If Microsoft is not innovating by applying existing technology in new ways, then certianly the open source community is not innovating either.
>>>>>>>>>
Accepted. But unlike MS, OSS people do not use “innovate” in every other sentence. If MS was billing Longhorn as “the best Windows yet!” I’d have no problem. But they’re making it out to be some sort of bet-the-farm revolution, and its *sooo* not that.
I guess the only people who innovate are universities, and while they often release stuff open source, I would not include them as part of the open source community.
>>>>>>>
OSS is just a continuation of the ideals of academic sharing of information. Remember, that Stallman is an academic (MIT AI lab) as are many other OSS notables. Remember also that most of the UNIX heritage of Linux came out of academica. Academia is an integral part the OSS community.
Agreed.
I’ve thought a lot about GUIs and such, I have a summary here of some ideas I’ve been chucking about…
I’d like to see some sort of ‘frame’ system. What I mean, get rid of windows. By default, apps would make full use of the screen and maximise the area for the user’s data or whatever (instead of window titles/frames, menu bars and superfluous toolbars). There’s no minimise or restore, only maximise. Each apps starts in it’s own ‘screen’, but you’ll have a list of apps somewhere like a taskbar where you can drag an app on top of another to make a split-frame, or click to switch apps. You could also assign the F1-F12 keys to the first 12 apps. No managing windows, you can set up a ‘Midnight Commander’ really easily, etc, etc…
I’ve seen similar ideas to these in a few new X window managers (can’t remember names…) I got down this train of thought from using Linux a lot in text mode, logging in multiple times and switching apps with the F keys. Yay for agetty.
There’s a worrying trend in Microsoft’s software from a HCI point of view. There’s a terrible lot of peripheral noise in MS’s newer UIs. For example, Windows 98 introduced ‘HTML folders’ when integrating IE with everything, taking up half the screen (back then one would be running at 800×600 mode
Longhorn seems to be continuing this trend further, wasting screen space in a similar manner that it wastes hard disc space. Bring back some minimalism!
WOW Microsoft does it again huh, does what. Rip Off artist is their game and has been for years. Complete rip off of apple’s interface with the clean brushed metal look. Apple still has the advantage of the UNIX foundation, you don’t hear a mac or UNIX user say “Oh No I’v got another virus” or” darn my computer crashed(again)”. In my opinion, tabed browsing is great for a browser and I loved it when Mozilla and Netscape had it. I figured Microsoft would get the idea sooner or later. Guess not huh. Well lets just sit and watch this so called “inovative” idea for longhorn. Its inovative I see, but its only inovative because its a rip off of somethin inovative, like apple. Panther will kill this longhorn crap, and since longhorn isnt coming out for a few years, apple will be ahead of the game, once again.
I like this idea. I have read about web services for years now and seeing a screenshot of that amazon.com service is like a dream come true. I would love to have this kind of functionality from some sort of touch screen interface in the kitchen. I would also like a touch screen interface for all of my music as well. I think these Microsoft people are right on the money. I can see all sorts of useability issues fixed with Longhorn. No more must I be a computer nerd to use my computer. Very excellent, I have to say I am looking forward to those rectuangular displays and mega chips coming out from intel and sony. The easier it is to get at my information the better. Why waste time typing endlessly to get something done that can either take one mouse click, a click of the remote or a voice command? Hats off to Microsoft. I wish them well. And one more thing, release another book Bill. R&D really pays off.
C’mon, who wants to be Apple. Let’s go…. who wants to be just like Apple. Who? Who? Oh…. Microsoft. We’ll wait until Apple has done it for years and then, just maybe we’ll add these “revolutionary” features to Windows. Errrtttt!!!!!
……or come up with some ideas of your OWN!
Yeah, I like this, they arent good at thinking of new ideas, they steal other companies like apple and somehow they have more money……well if you were smart buy a mac, it will be your friend, not just an ugly box with a crappy OS on it (windows, NOT UNIX, BSD ect..), inovative is the last thing microsoft is. You windows nerds who think this is a new idea and its the newest and greatest thing, too bad, your wrong, get a life and use a good computer, meaning not windows crap.
I have read about web services for years now and seeing a screenshot of that amazon.com service is like a dream come true.
What have they done there that you can’t do with CSS and a bit of fancy JavaScript? Granted, they do have the orders with status on the sidebar, but I’m not sure I like that…
Microsoft seems to have a vision of these kiosk systems emerging everywhere, maybe it’ll work, but it ain’t my cup of tea. It’s akin to what interactive TV could’ve been, but it seems a little silly if Windows is supposed to be a general purpose OS. But then there’s Media Center. Whatever.
Goldstein (IP: —.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) – Posted on 2003-10-28 23:34:55
Microsoft has never had a problem with writing code that burns MIPS. It’s one reason their parternship with Intel has worked so well.
Something more accurate would be the fact that they can design things well, however, when it comes to the implementation of it they’re over run by a “backwards compatibility” addiction.
Want to get software companies to follow you? team up with companies who are willing to work and update applications as API’s change.
When the new operating system is released, you simply work with your partners to slam their competition, “unlike xyz, foobah is committed to their customers by ensuring that their software works with the latest verison of Windows” then have down the bottom of the ad, “foobah is a part of the Microsoft Software Partner Network committed to delivering products that work seamlessly with Microsoft solutions”.
I think after a few slams, these companies who whine about API changes will suck in their bottom lip and finally invest some of those exorbitant profits they make off their semi-decent products to work with newer versions of Windows without expecting Microsoft to provide backwards compatibility because they’re (the third part vendor) too lazy to provide a service pack for their customers.
Thus Longhorn implementation (not just API’s) will consist of a lot of managed code that is not present in XP. And Longhorn will take beefy machines to run it.
I would also say that a good lot of code will be now handled in XML derived formatted files. Regarding “will take beefy machines to run it”, considering that I am running MacOS X and Eclipse plus a few other managed applications on a machine with 512MB RAM, I really can’t see how that statement can be true.
If you are purchasing a computer today and don’t get 512MB with it, you’re being ripped off. IMHO, in this day and age, I expect that most people have 11 applications open and switching between multiple applications. 256MB is not enough. This isn’t because operating systems are more bloated, people are now expecting computers to work for them rather than them working for the computer. They expect the ability to have many things open at the same time without seeing their computer coming to a grinding halt.
From the screenshot, it looks very clean compared to anything out there. I wonder if they are going to enable user-controllable FSAA on the final render for the AERO UI.
Also, considering that the whole GUI will be accelerated, I assume that the toolkit would have had to be re-written to a certain degree so that it is now based on Avalon.
If it means that the CPU can get back to what it is meant to do, namely, number crunch, the better. We’re finally getting back to how computers used to be rather than the situation we have now where all the work is done by one central point within a system.
Sagres (IP: 217.129.80.—) – Posted on 2003-10-29 01:21:04
What are you talking about, nokia mobiles look great. Ok, so some designs maybe a little too much avant-garde but at least they’re not going for those stupid clamshell designs. If there is one thing european companies are good at it’s design.
Agreed. I bought one Motorola phone. It was terrible, from the crap reception to the ultra crap design. I gave up, bought it back and the sales person said, “we get alot of these phones return”, I then decided to buy a Siemens A50 and have been a happy user since.
The fact remains that from my experience, not to flaimbait, but most appliances from the US tend to be glossy, gaudy and over the top. Unfortunately Korea and Japan have gone down the same track thinking if they copy crappy designs from the US, they’ll get market share in the US.
This extends into cinema where there is a fixation by the US movie industry that there is always an enemy in the move and for some reason there is some patriotic duty to nuke this enemy to pieces and oh, at the end the lead actor always, for some reason, it congratulated by the president; what a cliche. Take the movies thare produced in Europe (including Russia) or anywhere else. Russian Arch is a prime example of a quality movie that I would love to see again, Once Were Warriors, a hard hiting story about the reality that some people in our society find themselves in.
Luke McCarthy (IP: —.leed.broadband.ntl.com) – Posted on 2003-10-29 01:31:48
I wonder if they’ve got round to re-arranging the Windows directory. It hasn’t changed much since 3.x. And it’s a mess! Wallpapers, that clock video (?) and random .INIs dumped at root! Every DLL on earth in system32!
Imagine if all these two bit companies put all their DLLs and so forth in their own applications directory rather than sprawling their crap from one end of the hard drive to the other.
Nothing would please me more if Microsoft made Windows a read only directory protected by a digital signiture that only allows Microsoft Windows Signed updates to be copied into the directory, everyone else is denied access.
The sad apart about it is the fact that NT doesn’t need to have drive letters, it already operates like UNIX, however it uses drive letters to maintain “backwards compatibility”.
——–END OF REPLIES———-
As for innovation. I don’t care because there is no in novation. What happens is either people build of other companies ideas, put academic theorum into action or tweak existing ideas.
The changes in the Longhorn GUI directly correlates back to the R& they’re conducting in the area of computer/human interaction. Microsoft may like to call it “innovative”, but it is no more innovative than me asking a consumer what they want to see in a good toaster and simply providing it.
There is nothing wrong with this, Microsoft is being like most companies, find out what the consumer wants and delivering it. If 95% of consumers demand a cup holder on their monitor, then that is what computer producers will provide. It is the old story of supply and demand. Consumers demand something and it is supplied.
Where is the big innovation in Longhorn? The UI is “ispirated” from the Mac (again), the filesystem from BeOS, the Sidebar from OS/2 (!!) etc.
Pretty much every UI is inspired in one way or another by the Mac. But why is it in every thread about Longhorn, someone says this. But in threads about other UIs, e.g. SkyOS’ new one, nobody mentions it. Is Microsoft expected to change the very basics of their UI so they won’t look “inspired” by the Mac?
Oh, I would like to see a screenshot of whatever Mac software that looks almost the same as the screenshot above (the Amazon digicam store showcasing Avalon). It would be swell.
This is really trivial stuff that they’re showing. You can already build an app like this based on an XMLRPC service. The sidebar integration can easily be accomplished through something like DCOP or DBUS.
I wonder how badly this will affect windowed OpenGL/D3D apps like 3dsmax or XSI. Most current consumer hardware is not very good at handling multiple clients, so it might result in a big performance hit for those apps.
This whole managed application thing seems bit silly. If the kernel was properly designed to begin with (ie. everything wasn’t stuffed into the kernel) the system would be stable *without* the overhead of a VM. And if the application environments used a safe language to begin with, you could have secure apps without a VM.
That thing frikkin rocks, not for functional superiority but for sheer aesthetic pleasure. I think you make a good point here, though, that with the Avalon/Quartz Extreme OS layers becoming available to GUI designers, you really will see more applications and GUI replacements that are built to work something like this. Still, bear in mind that it takes quite a lot of talent to be able to produce something that looks that good, but it is definitely what the Kai Krause types will be creating as front-ends for us in the future.
It is an interesting idea for someone to consider making a GUI shell replacement application using Macromedia Flash. I wonder if it could be done? 😉
It is good to see Microsoft giving a demo of Amazon Web Services. One should not get the impression that this is the first use of the Web Services–the Web Services package has been around for some time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html/102-9845320-9936949?node=34353…
http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2002/07/18/amazon.html
Mozilla Amazon Browser:
http://www.cfmentor.com/~faser/mab/
>> You windows nerds who think this is a new idea and its the newest and greatest thing, too bad, your wrong, get a life and use a good computer, meaning not windows crap.
Riiiight…!!! I suppose all nerds are alike: for instance, the Mac-nerds were real excited at things like Journaling file-system, fast user-switching, etc earlier this year.
I suppose you guys will be *so* excited in 2010 when Apple “invents” a database-based file system in their next major OS “upgrade!” Sheeesh!
there they go innovating again.. ;-D
If anyone wants to see if microsoft innovates or not then go check their site http://research.microsoft.com/ instead of just trolling.
And innovating or not most of the stuff on that website looks at least interesting (i’ve just spent a couple of hours looking at F#)
MS does do some important (not really cutting edge, but not that far away) research, but little of it appears to be making its way into MS products. But F# is hardly innovative. Its basically a rehash of certain functional languages, notably Ocaml. One of the most innovative things MS has actually brought to market was the .NET CLR (specifically, using a VM to allow language interoperability) but even that wasn’t entire original (C has been used as a makeshift common language interface for years) and it wasn’t even developed by Microsoft.
This could be a bit scary, depending on your point of view. I just found this guys weblog, where he talks about XAML a bit, and what it may or may not do regarding the future of msft and the browser. http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/200310.html#t200310024
I’m thinking msft wants to control the infrastructure of a new communications medium, and will hold it to a windows only platform. Or, they will want a cut of each commercial transaction through licensing charges. ie., the amazon example in the screenshot.
>“But F# is hardly innovative.”
Okay….. What about polyphonic c# http://research.microsoft.com/~nick/polyphony/ ??
😀
Polyphonic C# is simply an extension of C# to incorporate aspects of a concurrent calculus. Such work has been ongoing for many years now. If you actually read the join-calculus link, you’ll see that the initial work was done in 1996 on Ocaml by people at INRIA. Polyphonic C# is more like Pizza (an implementationf of advanced language features into Java) than a fundemental advance. Again, close to the cutting edge, but not quite there.
One of the most innovative things MS has actually brought to market was the .NET CLR (specifically, using a VM to allow language interoperability) but even that wasn’t entire original (C has been used as a makeshift common language interface for years) and it wasn’t even developed by Microsoft.
Do you mean the .NET CLR wasn’t developed by Microsoft? Or C (which is obviously not made by MS)?
Personally, I think C# will have a pretty big impact on computing. It may not be revolutionary, but it looks to be a pretty solid language that fixes many of the faults of Java. It seems to me that MS tends to be very good at this sort of thing, improving and fine tuning existing ideas.
There is nothing really wrong with that. And I really hope that the fact that MS made C# and the CLR does not hinder their acceptance. They are ECMA standards after all.
I was at MS this summer, and I got to see Avalon first hand. There is currently nothing in the mainstream market that has comparable capabilities (no, not even Quartz), and I don’t know if there will be in the foreseeable future. I love and use linux, and so I’m really hoping Xfree or its branches can manage to come up with something as advanced in rendering capability as Avalon.
It was so cool, in fact, that many were passing up the X-box group to work with the Avalon group (including me).
Most big companies might not really innovate but they put those innovations in the mainstream… Most users don’t care of who is making innovations. They do care of those who are bringing them. Apple might innovate more than Microsoft but it’s Microsoft that have the biggest impact in our society.
Btw, Mac zealots claiming that Mac OS X will overtake the world before Longhorn comes out are funny. Wake up, most users are really conservative! I’m not saying they won’t ever be able to get more market share, I’m just saying that they still have a LOT of work to do.
The Micro$**t way of doing busness: [spelling]
1 Find innovative companies
2 Copy/Clone their idias/technologies
3 Make a crappy app
4 Sell it.
If they can’t copy it == they buy that company == make those apps windohze only. endif
5 If Program is useless , they bundle it. endif
Apple has done this consistently(Xerox anyone, hell how many companies have they bought out).
Linux/BSD has copied everyone(and are still way behind, especially the GUI).
So here is my question; Whats your point troll-boy?
Yes, the entire Longhorn strategy and technical design architecture was stolen from another company. Every last little bit of it — the communications engine, the graphics engine and UI system, the notifications/alerts system, the knowledgebase file system, etc. Even the codenames — Avalon and Indigo — were from outside the company.
Microsoft knows what to do with good ideas — turn them into software. So in a way I’m happy to see all the good ideas get into working code. I just wish it had been another company other than Microsoft.
I’ll be long gone by the time Longhorn is available, into the kinder, gentler world of Linux, and I won’t even say goodbye to MS and that walking “failure of capitalism” that runs it.
i just tried this:
i installed longhorn 4051 in virtualpc 5.2.
the video mode was 640×480 with 4 bit colour. why? because i could not install the VPC additions – it doesn’t support the operating system. the default driver wouldn’t use vesa mode. i tried to locate an XP driver for the emulated video card, but it seams that S3 Trio32/64/64V+ is not supported in XP. scitech software doesn’t have a version of snap for windows – they should take advanage of the fact that microsoft is eliminating hardware support, since they would add it right back in.
the sound card was not supported. it seams that longhorn doesn’t support soundblaster 16 pnp. i couldn’t be bothered trying to chase down drivers.
windows me run nicely in virtualpc, so much so, you can barely tell that it is emulated. longhorn, on the other hand, is soooooo slugish.
i just reclaimed 2.5gb from my harddrive…
You guys are so full of it sometimes. You keep claiming Microsoft doesn’t innovate, yet open source applications are continually copying Microsoft. Look, you can do the exact same thing with any application.
Let’s take oh so innovative Mozilla. What innovations does it have? Tabs? Nope, sorry, tabs have been used in many other places for a long time. They have even been used in browsers before Mozilla (Opera). Pop up blocker? Nope, this is just filtering software, which has been around for ages. Take a look at webwasher on windows for instance.
Did apache innovate? Nope, web servers where around long before apache. So really, give me a break. If Microsoft is not innovating by applying existing technology in new ways, then certianly the open source community is not innovating either.
I guess the only people who innovate are universities, and while they often release stuff open source, I would not include them as part of the open source community.
I’m really tired of hearing, as the open source community likes to call it, FUD about corporate innovation. You only hurt the open source community by making silly and wrong blanket statements.
one word to discribe this guy would be idiot. Microsoft never inovates, they make crap that doesnt work, you dont hear of a UNIX virus. Of course you always could write a virus for it, but why would you if you could target something a vulnerable as Windows. The main advantage open source has is freedom, microsoft gives you no freedom at all to do what you want on something you paid $400 or more on. open source is free and in free of cost, and free as in freedom. open source can do whatever the hell they want, they arent making money off it the way microsoft is. They rip off companies like apple then make multiple amounts of money off it. No OS is 100% their idea, it all evolved from somewhere, but clearly ripping off ideas and making them worse, by not working (Windows has this problem).