Home > Zeta > yellowTAB and beunited.org co-operate on Java Port yellowTAB and beunited.org co-operate on Java Port Eugenia Loli 2003-11-28 Zeta 35 Comments Today yellowTAB and BeUnited announce a milestone in the post Be world: they will be co-operating on porting Sun’s Java J2SE version 1.4 to Zeta and OSBOS. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 35 Comments 2003-11-28 8:07 pm Good news, first one in several weeks in the Zeta world … — http://homepage.mac.com/softkid 2003-11-28 8:39 pm I though the momentum on OSBEOS had pretty much stopped. I think their last newspost which was a little over a month ago really asked for more dedication from the “users” than they have shown themselves. A con named after an moronic joke which actually shadows a seriously idiotic situation where they can’t even name the OS after having a public vote months and months ago. Most preteens can throw up a better website. It seems SkyOS and the other hobby os’s are showing 10x the progress with smaller teams and a less focused goal. I would love to go to one of their conventions. JAVA is great and all but I hope more effort is put into the Zeta port than working with the WalterOS crew. 2003-11-28 8:55 pm Thats great news, but how long will it take? 1.5 is just around the corner… 2003-11-28 8:59 pm In BeUnited’s terminology OSBOS means any Open Standards BeOS-compatible Operating System, more or less. Since BeUnited has yet to create any meaningful de jure standards, and doesn’t insist on any particular level of “compatibility” this is basically a self-selection process. COSMOE wants in (despite not being remotely a BeOS clone) whereas Sequel does not, so they were removed from BeUnited’s page. The term OSBOS should not be confused with the so-called OpenBeOS project, which has been planning for some years to rename itself in order to be more distinctive. There seems to be no future for the Zeta product (all indications are that it’s a technologcal dead end) and it’s doubtful whether even OpenBeOS has enough developers to keep up in the Red Queen’s Race that is desktop operating systems. OSBOS projects remain interesting hobbys for a few dedicated souls, but it seems unlikely now that anything to rival BeOS R5 in modern terms will be produced. 2003-11-28 9:29 pm When I read something like this I get confused. People complain that Java isn’t open source, so how do you port something that you don’t have the code for? 2003-11-28 9:38 pm The Java 2 Platform Source is available under the Sun Community Source License. So long as you have a Sun Download Center login, you can download the source here: http://wwws.sun.com/software/communitysource/j2se/java2/download.ht… 2003-11-28 11:48 pm Linux is not a *fun* environment to code in, I’ve found. Of course, if Be, Inc. had done this years ago, as I believe Steve Sakoman had promised, perhaps they could have limped along for a few more months, at the very least. I just hope it is unaffected by the yT/BeOSJournal feud I keep reading about everywhere: BeOS Journal to yellowTab: “No, YOUR mom!” – http://www.bedoper.com/bedoper 2003-11-29 12:01 am i can’t help but assume that cooperation between obos and yellowtab will become more common. Its the smart thing to do for both of them. 2003-11-29 2:38 am I think it is the wrong thing for the community, but a good thing for yT. Zeta is a dead-end project. It is pretty obvious now they do not have source code, and if they do they sure aren’t making much use of it. Now, if yT cleans up their act, and focuses more than they appear to have been, and organize themselves, they may be worthwhile to the community. The problem we have now is that we have this company with what can only be described as a poor excuse of a BeOS distrobution putting its fingers everywhere it can. Sounds like M$’s policy. I’m not ragging on yT, I really would like for them to succeed commerccialy, it would be a good thing for the community. But if they release junk upon junk, they will end up tainting everything they touch. I have a few things I would enjoy saying, but cannot due to various new agreements I have made with various persons and entities. So life goes on, I work harder, and my pockets grow lighter…. –The loon 2003-11-29 2:51 am “Linux is not a *fun* environment to code in, I’ve found.” To each their own I suppose. My own prefrences run to the exact opposite. Linux is the only OS where I felt like I wasn’t fighting the system to code the way I like to. It’s the platform all my favorite tools target, whereas on BeOS or Windows there’s usually either a delay in release or performance issues (cygwin). Plus coding for other coders seems to be a high priority for a very large percentage of applications and window managers in linux. On other platforms the average email and internet users seem to be the main focus, often to the determent of user friendliness to coders. Or at least that’s my take on it. 2003-11-29 3:05 am “People complain that Java isn’t open source, so how do you port something that you don’t have the code for?” Open Source != Source Code Avialablity An open source licences gives users the right to read, redistribute, and modify the source code. However there are software licenses (such as Sun’s Community Source Licensing program). This license serves as a ‘middle ground’ between proprietary software and the open source model providing the source for your software but putting greater limits on the ability to redistribute modified software. For more information about Sun’s Community Source Licensing program I would suggest reading JavaWorlds article on the license: http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-03-1999/jw-03-java2.html For a list of certified open source licenses and more information about what open source is check out OSI’s website: http://www.opensource.org/ 2003-11-29 3:25 am Actually I’ve been following OpenBeOS and they have been making considerable progress in many of their kits (app_server especially.) The name change will come once they get through the redtape to becoming a Non-profit organization, they already have a new website design and name conjured up. I wouldn’t count OBOS out yet. 2003-11-29 4:06 am Thank guys for clearing that up for me. 2003-11-29 4:40 am Do you mean, htey chose WalterOS as the name for OpenBeOS? When was this announced? 2003-11-29 4:42 am Porting Java 1.4 to BeOS would be fantastic, but I’m afraid, also fantastically hard to do. As in amount of work. 2003-11-29 4:52 am @Anonymous (IP: —.nokia.com) The name as not been released to the public yet. And it’s not “Walter”. 2003-11-29 5:04 am Actually, porting java to beos is just taking the best and making it better, take your pick one is which I guess. It’s not super difficult, and it’s already mostly done. The cooperation of YellowTab with BeUnited’s Java project, is in addition to Obos’ cooperation. Just to clear things up, OSBOS is the name for spec compliant BeOS compatible Operating Systems. OBOS, in it’s current construction goal, is a complete tear down and rebuild of R5, replacing, fixing etc. But it is no patchfix. It’s a total rebuild. The next version will be exploring a next generation Operating Platform. It will be as innovative as Be’s R5 was when it was first released. And, finally, the reason you don’t see much posting activity, is because a lot of people are VERY busy working their tails off. It’s good to see a post however. 2003-11-29 6:26 am Anonymous (IP: —.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) wrote: but it seems unlikely now that anything to rival BeOS R5 in modern terms will be produced. I disagree. One of the strengths of BeOS R5 was its simplicity. Be Inc. could’ve put all sorts of bells and whistles in but they didn’t indulge themselves — they refrained. Apple and MS cannot or will not do that. That’s why they can never match BeOS R5, IMO. Now, whether or not the OBOS’ers will have this level of self-control remains to be seen. I think I remember reading Linus saying that the hardest part of the job is so often saying “No”. Another anon wrote: Do you mean, htey chose WalterOS as the name for OpenBeOS? When was this announced? That was, like, 2 days ago. Actually, it’s just “Walter” rather than WalterOS. Where’ve you been? 2003-11-29 7:02 am >> Another anon wrote: >> Do you mean, htey chose WalterOS as the name for OpenBeOS? >> When was this announced? > That was, like, 2 days ago. Actually, it’s just “Walter” > rather than WalterOS. Where’ve you been? Where was this announced? Care to provide an URL? Koki 2003-11-29 7:46 am Porting Java is certainly a hard task for ANY operating system developer. However, as has been pointed out in a recent interview http://news.beosjournal.org/?id=622 Java is nearly complete, and is about to achieve another milestone soon. (relative terms, obviously) Java for BeOS will bring a lot of great applications for its technology to a fledgling OS, deserving of something that will propel its development momentum. This is just the kind of thing needed to encourage everything there is a future for BeOS, OSBOS, etc. Cudos to Andrew Bachmann, once again. No thanks needed to anyone at YellowTab. They didn’t help with one single line of code, to be sure. -Chris Simmons, Avid BeOS User. The BeOSJournal. 2003-11-29 8:01 am Our port of 1.4.2 is going quite smoothly, thanks to the work of the entire team at beunited. As was to be expected, there were some stumbling blocks, but we have overcome them all so far. For more details please refer to the above link at beos journal. Andrew 2003-11-29 12:41 pm That was me, and I wasn’t trying to hide. Sorry. But, so, OpenBeOS is called Walter? Apparently? Where and when was this announced??? 2003-11-29 1:12 pm I believe it’s nice to see Java progressing well that’s for sure. To be honest though, I think nobody like yT anymore no matter how much they try to improve their brand with various activities (such as this one). yT is very much disliked by pretty much everyone and when OBOS reaches R1 and distros start to build, I’m confident no one will want to buy yT’s distro… just my 0.02€ 2003-11-29 1:16 pm OSBOS is a label invented by BeUnited.org for OS-projects that aim at being standards-compliant with the original BeOS. OBOS, short for OpenBeOS(.org), is the project of cloning BeOS R5. “Walter” is a joke, or an OBOS R1 codename if you like. OpenBeOS (Michael Phipps et al) have filed as a non-profit organisation, and the new name of the OS/project will be announced when all that is settled. OpenBeOS release 1 will be a binary-compatible clone of R5. There’s stuff committed to CVS every day. OpenBeOS release 2 will be a redesign of the OS. GlassElevator is the twin-project working with that. http://wiki.bebits.com/page/GlassElevator http://glasselevator.sourceforge.net/ 2003-11-29 9:29 pm YT will leech anything and everything and give nothing back. Most of the drivers in YT seem to have come of BEBITS and some of them dont even work. For example RADEON drivers behave exactly as they do in DANO. (they are broken) So YT have added nothing to the system apart from a collection of software you could have downloaded yourself. Oh and SVG tracker. YT have an agreement with the developer and have stopped that for every version of BEOS except Zeta. The whole choice of DANO as the base for Zeta is to build a fence that YT can secure themselves behind. They can release software that is NOT BACKWARDS compatible while absorbing everything that exists today. 2003-11-30 2:53 am Yeppers, that is my feelings on yT for sure. And I’m one to know. But if they fail, it is bad for the community regardless, as it will deter commerccial activity. However, if competition beats them out, that would be good. I need financial backers. There is a team assembled and very skilled ready and willing to compete. –The loon 2003-11-30 12:19 pm Java potentially increases the number of apps you can run on your dead end minority operating system. Thats why it appeals to people running things like BEOS, RISCOS, MORPHOS etc. It used to be a huge deal for Apple as well when they where almost going under. The problem is that Java Apps are generally useless, nasty looking, slow, memory hogging, high network latency crapware. The whole Java Client side of things seems to have died a graceless death leaving Java nuts to argue the case for the server side where the dynamic optimizing far too late compilers can eventually create something reasonable by recompiling the same code endlessly… So who is seriously going to pick BEOS to run servers when they could use Linux instead? The saddest thing is to see a nice clean fast OS saddled with a hideous vile ineficient virtual machine. It doesnt attract new users to a platform to include cross platform technology. It just sidetracks supporters of the platform into writing things that run equally well OR BETTER under windows, linux and mac osx. When they figure that out they quit the platform. 2003-11-30 2:34 pm Cool, so you don’t fancy running OpenOffice on BeOS then? Seeing as how it cant be built without Java. 2003-11-30 2:35 pm Jesus. Quit the debate, please. The name has been chosen already. I shouldn’t know about this (heh), but, things happen (and if you dig, it does come out. But you’ve gotta dig for it). I’ve seen their new site, and the design is beautiful. When they picked the name, they’ve had very good taste. It has set a theme for the whole site, and probably for the project itself. I think you’ll appreciate it as I did. And nope, begging and bribing won’t make me leak it out ;D Cheers 2003-11-30 5:28 pm Zeta is here now. It is not perfect, but we can put it on our machines. Obos (or whatever) will be beautiful and perfect but when will I be able to install this on my machine? Surely an actually existing OS has to be superior to a merely putative one? I’m looking forward to the day (far in the future?) when I can install OBOS (?) on to a computer and say, “Yes this is far superior to Zeta!” Regards, BeJay 2003-11-30 7:24 pm shunkawitco — except for: The problem is that Java Apps are generally useless, nasty looking, slow, memory hogging, high network latency crapware. (which is a little nasty ) I think you couldn’t have hit the nail more squarely on the head. 2003-11-30 8:14 pm I was a bit harsh about Java clients, I meant that the client software I have seen written in Java is ‘neither performant, nor conformant with user expectations’ e.g. It runs like a DOG, eats ram like a HOG and looks like an app from SOLARIS. I dont doubt there are people writing good Java software, I just wish more of the guys writing bad Java had to end up running it as well. As for open office one of the requirements is a C++ compiler. Yes it uses Java (Can anyone guess why ?) Someone in the know could explain how much of OO is Java and how much is decent honest C++. Open office is great – every function under the sun, a real M$ replacement at last, but OO is not that fast and it is not that small. It is a 60MB to 85MB download. Anyone remember how big GOBE Productive is? 2003-12-01 1:00 am i’m looking forward to developing java apps on BeOS using NetBeans. BeOS’ superior responsiveness should make using NetBeans a joy to use. And while i’m here, what’s wrong with Solaris apps? I’m run Gnome on Solaris 9 and using Mozilla 1.5 (compiled by me). Everythings fine…..reboots are rare on Solaris 😉 and the performance is great too. Not as great as BeOS but hey i’m happy, and that’s all that matters!! Horses for courses i guess. cheers peter 2003-12-01 3:11 am I must agree. I work with NetBeans on 2k and on NetBSD most of the time. Its a great IDE for developing in JAVA, but on 2k e.g. there’re sometimes locks for a while.. strange… And you can say its “not as responsive as” I would like it to be. I expect this to be different on BeOS… So I am looking forward to Java on BeOS… -A 2003-12-02 11:57 am bad news. I bet Yellowtab f * c k up the code totally.