My husband hooked me up on Slackware almost three months ago (he used to run Slackware in the ’90s). While I use a large range of OSes on a daily basis, when I am under Linux I now prefer to use Slackware. This is my mini-article with thoughts on Slackware 9.1 after using it for three months on and off. Ten screenshots are included.In my experience…
I love how simple Slackware feels (it feels like the BeOS of the Linuxes, in a way :). You of course need to learn 5-6 Slackware-specific tricks and things, but your adventure should stop right there. Everything should just work, manipulating services, changing configurations, etc.
Installing applications is very easy, you just download .tgz files from either the Slackware FTP site or the third party apps found at LinuxPackages.net and then you type “installpkg file-name.tgz” or “upgradepkg file-name.tgz” or “remove app-name” and the rest is history. The funny thing is that while Slackware’s tools don’t support dependency checking (third party package tool Swaret does) I did not usually have any problems installing anything. The packagers make sure that all dependencies needed are to be found on their web site or on LinuxPackages’ site usually grouped together and they are easy to find these groups, and so it makes software installation pretty trivial.
To demonstrate how much the Slackware guys and its developer community value backwards compatibility for the convienience of the user, downloading and installing packages and its dependancies manually from the Dropline Gnome distribution it works perfectly with stock X11 or stock Gnome (for example, I got the xine, totem, Evolution packages from Dropline and they worked fine on my stock X/Gnome even if Dropline offers its own version of X and Gnome.) The only problem I hit sometimes when I install gnome packages is that scrollkeeper takes forever to do its part. This is a known behavior that happens in a number of distros and in my opinion scrollkeeper should be fixed or re-architected.
Creating packages and sharing them with other Slackware users is easy. Instead of the usual “make install” after compiling something, just do a “checkinstall -S” and it will create and install the .tgz package for you! The .tgz file is now ready for sharing with others (tip: on Slackware is best to always configure stuff as ./configure –prefix=/usr because some specific libs don’t like the default /usr/local location, even if it’s on the $PATH).
The other great thing about Slackware is that its -CURRENT tree, the unstable one, is actually… very stable. I admit that I am constantly running -Current on my desktop (not /testing though, which is really beta) and I haven’t noticed any problems. Things continue to work as they did before.
Speed-wise I consider the 486-compiled Slackware the fastest distro on the machine that it shares with i686-compiled Fedora, Java Desktop System, Lindows, SuSE and Mandrake (along with other OSes too). Slackware is the snapiest of all under normal Gnome desktop usage at least. And it boots much faster than any of the other distros too. About 20 seconds boot time on this Samsung 40 GB drive (with DMA on).
In my review in September I mentioned a problem with the software mixer found on the VIA AC97 on-board card, but installing my Yamaha XG-754 worked like a charm with ALSA and I am quite happy with the quality (there are some noise artifacts sometimes in some alert sounds though).
Slackware has been rock solid for me. I know of two reproducible ways of crashing its Nautilus and one of crashing the included KOffice, but that’s it. I mean, if you know my reviews, you know I can always find bugs and problems all over the place. Slackware has proven ‘more than good enough’ stability and bug-wise.
Slackware takes the “safe approach” and it doesn’t patch the kernel with custom hacks like some distros do. They only use the default kernel code pretty much. But having said that, it still works with my FireWire PCI card and my new USB camera out of the box. Only the mouse movement is pretty bad on X, but all distros have that (except Fedora as it has special kernel patches for it).
Conclusion
By now you probably have noticed that my two Slackware articles I have ever written (this one and my Sept. review) are pretty “short” for my standards. This is because there is nothing either glorious or problematic to report. It just works. It is a distro which doesn’t have to “pretend” about anything. It is what it is and does nothing more or less than it markets: a Linux distro based on the BSD layout which makes a good small/medium business server and if you are a more-than-average user should also make a good desktop too. It promises nothing more and it succeeds to this goal as it doesn’t have many of the annoyances found elsewhere.
I think I have used more than 25 Linux distribution versions in the last 4-5 years (more than 12 unique ones). Slackware is the first one that “stuck” on me. Not because it fixes long term problems with the Unix/X usability or doing anything so different from the rest, but because it is simple, it is easy to understand its “way”, it’s stable, and it’s easy to install applications. In general, Slackware wins on the edges, it is not that different from the rest, but different enough on the places that count to offer a consistent experience.
The only thing I want to see from Slackware in the future is more research and effort besides the “package, test, ship” direction. Slackware hasn’t changed much the last few years and it already shows its age compared to more modern OSes. Some effort to include integrated server/system tools for various tasks and some differentiation on the desktop side would be most welcome. Oh and Patrick, please add FAM, I can’t live without it.
I’m a FreeBSD user by day (work) and a Slackware user by night and I have to agree with a number of points raised in this article. Slackware isn’t particularly glamorous (unless you get Dropline GNOME of course!) but it doesn’t suffer from any real problems either. I don’t understand why the whole world doesn’t use BSD init scripts. They are SOO easy to use. I have customised the bajeesus out of mine.
On one final note: It’s nice to see another proud GNOME user
OK, I understand what is meant by stable and “simple” as in it’s default is uncontaminated. Some people really like that. Particularly people who like to customize the heck out of their machines. To a newbie though Slackware will seem like anything but simple.
What does a linux newbie do when they boot their slackware machine for the first time and they get a CLI prompt. I’ll tell you what they do, they do a format and install Fedora or Mandrake.
One thing I really like about slackware is hotplug. I installed it for that reason. It didn’t stay very long though.
I’m not a big fan of editing conf files and if you don’t like doing it, don’t bother with this distro. I have very standard hardware and this distro that autodectects or sets up my hardware the worst of all (well all that I’ve tried, which is not a few). If you don’t mind that, Slackware can be a great system for you. I have a friend that swears by it and I’ve seen it run quite smoothly for him.
The article clearly suggests that only “above average users” should be using Slackware. It is written in the conclusion part. Slackware is not for newbies. Lycoris or even Fedora would be a better choice for these users until they become more accustomed to Unix.
Is there’s an option to update the system (security fixes, patches and etc) via network (a la YOU or RHN)? Or do you have to do it manually?
What does a linux newbie do when they boot their slackware machine for the first time and they get a CLI prompt. I’ll tell you what they do, they do a format and install Fedora or Mandrake.
Slackware was the first distro I ever tried out (it was in ’96) and it has been my #1 choice since then, but I agree that it certainly isn’t too newbie-friendly a distribution. But then again, it doesn’t intend to be one, either.
I for one am glad that Slackware has been kept a KISS compliant, no-complicated-shit-included distro all this time.
Hey Eugenia, how did you get that nested X session which is running xfce4 going? I have been hacking with Xnest to no avail! Is it a remote X session? I’m trying to run a nested remote X session on my linux box from the X server on my NetBSD box but am having no luck! 😐
btw, great article, I’m a big slack fan!
– j
I strongly agree with your review of Slackware 9. I have used over 20 linux distrobutions and I keep coming back to Slackware. I love the speed and stability. I do believe that Slackware is not suitable for the beginning linux user. It takes a little configuration to get some hardware to work (WiFi, Sound, etc..). I do recommend SuSE linux to the beginners. Slackware RULES!
>Is there’s an option to update the system
Install Swaret (mentioned and linked on the article) from the /extra folder on the Slackware CD.
Then type as root:
swaret –update
swaret –upgrade -a (for the automatic mode)
There is a KDE front-end for it too: http://kswaret.sf.net/
Is there’s an option to update the system (security fixes, patches and etc) via network (a la YOU or RHN)? Or do you have to do it manually?
Just set Swaret to fetch the updates from the stable (currently 9.1) tree. That includes the fixes present in http://www.slackware.com/changelog/stable.php?cpu=i386 list.
>swaret –update
>swaret –upgrade -a (for the automatic mode)
Thanks.
> Hey Eugenia, how did you get that nested X session which is running xfce4 going?
More info and pointers here:
http://www.xfce.org/en/documentation.html#start
Make sure you do a “xhost +localhost” before running the script shown there though.
That’s the problem I had with slackware. I just didn’t have the time to haunt for dependencies and I didn’t like the package management system, at all. If you are a power user who wants a fine tuned system that is easy to update and maintain, and that has the latest stable packages, I’d go with gentoo. If you don’t mind search for and downloading deps and you are all about tinkering, then have fun with slackware. Overall good review.
i’m sorry, but if your package management isn’t … oh i don’t know, modern, and doesn’t autoresolve dependencies, i think there’s a flaw in the design of your distro.
that brings me to: gentoo, and debian. if your distro is not based off of one of these two, it is either: duct-taped together (apm-rpm), not user friendly (yast), or just plain rpms (redhat)
But that’s the point I did on the article: There are not big problems with dependancies on Slackware! Exactly because the system doesn’t do dep checking the developers are always careful to provide everything that’s needed! Except the GnuCash installation which was a dep nightmare, I never had any other problem with Slackware and I have installed many stuff the past few months.
Besides, Swaret now DOES dependency checking.
Plastik theme looks awsome, anyone know if there has any port for GTK2?
I agree, Slackware was one of best Linux distro that I have tried. FreeBSD has won me, but I always recommend for any users who want Linux to go for Slackware.
>Plastik theme looks awsome, anyone know if there has any port for GTK2?
No, there is no port currently. Plastik is the default KDE theme for 3.2, but only a Metacity port has being done so far. It would be great if someone will do Plastik theme port for Gnome as it is good for consistency.
BTW, a question to you Slackware users: I downloaded FAM for Slack9.1 from Linuxpackages and I activated on the services, but it doesn’t work. The Nautilus’ window doesn’t get its content refreshed everytime I do changes on the file system via a terminal or something. Does Nautilus and gnome-panel need to be compiled against FAM? If the answer is yes, I guess we need Patrick to add it by default on 9.2
i first tried mdk. easy install.. sluggish performance.. annoying email..constantly. Than Redhat.. a little smoother.. but rpm hell. than debian.. it didnt like my vid setup. than wasted 3 days attempting to install gentoo.. sorry.. i have a life. Than slack 9.0 and 9.1.. Freeking Unbelievable. the ncurses installer was as smooth and fast as any of the glitzy graphic installers. the only things i needed to config manually were my wheelmouse (imps2 ZAxis mapping 4,5) and my initial partitioning.OOPS.. forgot.. i did also need to install the hpijs driver and diddle CUPS.. for about 5 minutes. People dont seem to get the simplicity and beauty of source based distros. They just work better. My slack+dropline desktop is as sweet as anything out there.. quick and responsive as well.. thanks eugenia.. more people should report on this elder statesman of linux distros.
i can agree. slackware is the best linux distribution. it is the only one which really works perfectly with my notebook. fedora und debian had huge problem with my ibm usb2 pcmcia card. with slackware no problem.
and if you are a gnome fan, it’s your distro. updating gnome was never as easy as with dropline.
Slackware’s been an off-and-on distro for me, between it and Debian. Yesterday, though, Slackware won a major battle, as it’s the first distro that’s got ACPI working out of the box on my laptop.
And having used apt, I must say, swaret is up to the task. It doesn’t have as many packages, and isn’t *quite* as slick as apt and all of its helper apps, but with a little more polish, swaret could be quite the trend-setter.
I imagine the installer being upgraded so that it uses swaret as a sort of backend, just for dependancy checking, using the CD’s as the packages’ source, and happening all in the background. I happen to have a messed up gcc which I started trying to fix about 20 seconds before starting this post. The uh-oh seems to have happened due to an unmet dependancy from when I first installed Slack (yesterday). I don’t think I’ve run in to such a problem before, but I know I’ve been asked if I wanna install things like grep or gtk before, and always said yes because I’d previously said yes to packages I KNOW depend on it. I’ve always wondered what would happen if I said no. If swaret was backending the installer, I’d know that nothing “interesting” would happen. And all the while, the installer would behave the same as ever.
The first distro i ever tried was Slack7. It didn’t work. I gave up on linux for about a year, and then started using RH8 and Mandrak9 which I like about equally, but when Slack9.1 had the balls to put Gnome2.4 in practically the same week it was released, I had to try it. Not only have I stuck with it, I have given it 90% of my HD to it (winXP gets 10GB for wine). In slack, everything works the way the software developers intended. It’s easy to drop in standard kernels, and there isn’t a barrage of softlinks giving a hundred ways to do the same thing. If you want to really learn linux I highly suggest Slack. It can be challenging, but rarely frustrating, and ALWAYS rewarding. I feel bad for RH guys who won’t install something that doesn’t come on RPM.
The one major change I made to the fresh install was Grub. I just like being able to have a splash image on the bootloader ;-). I’d like to see future slacks use Grub, it’s way more advanced than Lilo.
Does Nautilus and gnome-panel need to be compiled against FAM?
Actually, you need to recompile gnomevfs2 with FAM support, that’s it. In FreeBSD, have to use inetd and have the portmap (for FreeBSD 4.x) or rpcbind (for FreeBSD 5.x) enable to make the FAM works. I can’t really comment on Linux to get FAM running, but I do know that you will need to recompile gnomevfs2 with FAM support.
Anyone know if Swaret has packages for MythTV?
http://www.mythtv.org
I am currently running it on
gentoo, but It takes 12 hours to install, but once installed Mytht is easy, just emerge mythtv.
I would really like to see something for slack that would take care of all the depencies and have init scripts for starting the mythbackend.
I Installed Slack for the first time a couple of months ago and loved how fast you can get a system up and running.
I haven’t tried Swaret, but I find that Slapt-get is almost identical to apt. Maybe you’d like it.
Is grub a option with a nice slack spash image? or is there a way (easy)to make lilo look nicer.
I know it’s stupid to bitch about the bootloader, but when you boot other distros, like redhat or gentoo, it just looks so much nicer.
A nice and simple review about a nice and simple Linux distro.
That’s why I like Slackware, it just works! I don’t really need all the extra junk Red Hat and Mandrake have. Compared to Slackware they’re just bloated and slow.
I’ve been running Slackware 9.0 here along with Dropline Gnome and I love it!
I know I’m sold on Slackware…
And no, it’s not really for new and inexperienced Linux users, but then it never claimed to be that.
Not all Linux distros have to cater to newbies. There’s already plently out there that do…
Yes. It is hard to gush about Slackware. It’s just so spartan. It just
does it. No nonesense, no flare. A zen kind of rigour.
was that if i was going to bother to go from redhat to something like slackware (a huge leap)….why not just go to freebsd?
Slackware is nice but it’s a PITA to upgrade from distro to distro. With Debian, all I have to do is apt-get upgrade it. Slackware and others just encourage reformat and install. Not exactly enterprise ready.
Slackware is good for a power user desktop but not good on the server end.
Slackware is nice but it’s a PITA to upgrade from distro to distro. With Debian, all I have to do is apt-get upgrade it. Slackware and others just encourage reformat and install.
Actually, I have succesfully used Swaret to upgrade Slackware to a new version by editing a single line in Swaret config file and two commands. Not quite my idea of a “PITA”.
If you’re looking for a real PITA with Slackware, try and configure it to properly support Japanese input.
You need to have portmap running.
Simply chmod 0755 /etc/rc.d/rc.portmap to have it running upon boot and FAM should be working if you have it enabled in /etc/inetd.
BTW, any comments on the OpenOffice.Org 1.1.0 Ximian edition build? Is this the one from Dropline forums?
I always come back to Slackware. It was my first Linux distribution, back when I had to download what seemed like an infinite number of 1.44 floppies over a slip account on a VAX one by one. While it hasn’t changed much in a lot of basic ways, the underlying software has always reflected the state of the art in Linux. Hotplug, 2.6 readiness, clear and simple configuration files, and an architecture that doesn’t punish the type of person that likes to go outside the distribution and compile packages.
I love the text-based installer. It has barely changed over the years; it was never broken. Newbies may be initially afraid of it, but as someone who was new to Linux when I tried a much earlier, and less polished version, I can heartily recommend it as your first foray into Linux if you don’t mind a little adventure.
The downside is that there could be more packages, and the packages from LinuxPackages.net are some times a bit funky, but paired with something like GNU Stow, or just making your own .tgz packages, it isn’t such a drawback.
Out of curiosity of all the Slack users who regularly use the installer; what method do you use? I do newbie. I used it the first time, and for some reason have never seen the insentive to use any of the other menu items on that list. What are the other options even like?
It is a good idea to install all files of Slackware when installing for the first time. This way you won’t end up in dependancy hell later.
This review is a nice reminder of the benefit of having “too many” distros: There really is something for just about everybody. You don’t get this option with Windows.
Now, I’m not sure how to take the fact that Slackware 9.1 did not get compared with Windows XP like all the other distros do. I could take it as a “finally Eugenia has been fair to a distro” or I could take it as a “Eugenia is being unfair to Fedora/Redhat by not comparint it to XP!!!” Or I could just go watch Family guy right now.
>>was that if i was going to bother to go from redhat to something like slackware (a huge leap)….why not just go to freebsd?
The same question could be reversed, and I see no compelling reason to try FBSD. I used Slackware before switching over to Gentoo and had tried FBSD, but out of the 3 machines I put BSD on I always had a piece of hardware that just wouldn’t work and saw no real advantages of using it.
I haven’t tried out any of the new package managers for Slackware, but that was the reason I left Slackware and someone really needs to compare these new package managers to Gentoos portage. I assume common software is easy to get with the pacakge managers, but what about uncommon/very beta/non-GPL packages. Portage is great for stuff like winex, or getting the nvidia drivers to install on the 2.6 kernel, or getting wolfenstein enemy territory real quick, but….
I really really hate 90% of the way Gentoo works…Gentoo’s init system makes me want to vomit, half the time I try to install it it fails somewhere trying to compile kde or doesn’t even make it past the boot strap, the install is too complex to easily memorize….grrrrr If slackware had a portage equivalant I could finally have an alternative to Gentoo
> Now, I’m not sure how to take the fact that Slackware 9.1 did not get compared with Windows XP like all the other distros do.
I will tell you how. The key for this is this sentence on the review: “It is a distro which doesn’t have to “pretend” about anything.”
The distros you are mentioning, like Red Hat Linux or Mandrake or SuSE are going against Microsoft users. They have specific usage pattern targets. Slackware does not have these targets. Slackware is not for newbies and normal users. Slackware is the Unix in Linux. I do not *expect* Slackware’s copy/paste to work better than XP. I do not expect Slackware to offer me better UI usability than XP or OSX. I expect less from Slackware because Slackware itself hasn’t set unrealistic goals like the other distros have. And this is why it’s being reviewed as such. If you read reviews of mine for QNX or Syllable I don’t expect them to replace XP any time soon. I am not saying that slackware is as bad as quality-wise as hobby OS Syllable, but I do say that it has different goals and goes after a very specific userbase.
Eugenia, where did you get a Slack 9.1 package of OpenOffice 1.1 with those “nice fonts” ?
>>>was that if i was going to bother to go from redhat to something like slackware (a huge leap)….why not just go to freebsd?
FreeBSD is great, but it doesn’t have “automatic” support for modern hardware. For example, it requires tweaking to get your USB camera up and running, or to enable USB2, or to enable SMP, or to do this or that. The support IS there, it is just that you need to find it and enable it if you want support for the latest and the greatest. With Linux this part is easier as the kernels shipping with all these distros have most stuff turned on. Slackware uses the stock kernel, but it is also configured to supprot stuff, e.g. Firewire or USB by default.
Ah, where was that link now? It was a guy who ported the Ximian OpenOffice version 1.1 to Slackware and made one big .tgz file. Hmm… let me see if I can find it back.
Hi!
I’ve tried slack after eugenia’s review in sept. I liked the simplicity too, but not the package managament. So i tried arch linux, which is very much like slack (a fork of that afaik) and adds a bsd like package management system to it (not only full dependency handling, but very easy custom package making), and it’s i686. I use it for a month or so, and quite satisfied w/ it. Give it a try if u like the idea of slackware but not the package management. I’m not sure how it was under slack, but eg here the init system is so simle, nothing rcX.d, but i there’s a file /etc/rc.conf with the line:
DAEMONS=(!pcmcia network crond inetd httpd mysqld sshd proftpd)
And that’s it, it’s used at both boot and shutdown to handle daemons. Pretty simple and clear i think, i never liked the SystemV style init.
bye, hirisov
I got it!!
http://www.blazebox.homeip.net:81/diffie/slackware/
This guy has made some very good packages. Download Firebird and OOo from there, but not the Galeon package (upgrade to -Current to get the official Galeon)
Slackware is a quality distro in many respects but the selection of games that comes with a standard installation really isn’t too big. How many of you Slackware users are gamers? Is there a website from where one could download ‘slackpakaged’ games, including dependencies?
There are games on LinuxPackages.net. The rest of the games you might need to compile yourself but instead of doing a “make install” do a “checkinstall -S” instead.
This command, creates the Slackware package AND installs it for you. And then you are left with the .tgz package itself and you can share it with other Slackware users. That’s another thing I like on Slackware, ease of creating your own packages to share!
Just make sure you always do a “./configure –prefix=/usr” instead of a simple “./configure” because some apps like python-gtk bindings don’t like getting installed on teh default /usr/local/. That path is on the $PATH but these bindinds require to be on /usr so always-always do your configures with –prefix=/usr
Thanks (from the guy that made these tgzs)
Oh and please use this ultra fast mirror for the packages:
http://users.lichtsnel.nl/pub/slackware provided by spacey.
Staring to use RH from ver 6.0(never use a dual boot w/ window) until I have an disagreement with RH business change. I ve given slackware a try, and known that it is a very good move.
I ve moved to Slackware 9.1 last month and see all the article’s short review on slackeware 9.1 is a quite good one, it describes fair good points which have occured in a slackBox. Though as a new starter w/ slackware, I think i learn slackware not very hard w/ BSD init style. It is simple to edit and pretty responsive
If a Linux newbie of 5 years ago, he/she would not postpone to try Slackware as a console/CLI philosophy. However, it may be a fear w/ them now and dueto many Linux Distros provide GUI installation way which is a better option for newbies. I myself still think using Slackware will gain your Linux knowledge as fast as you can. You can learn a heap of Linux in nature w/ slackware, from a setup ppp dialing using analog modem to how to take control the system, run httpd to mysql on CLI)…
The folowwing is some notes of mine on Slackware-9.1(for Gnome use only)
+ speed and applications responsiveness: much faster than RH-Gnome. Openoffice1.1 (downloaded from http://www.openoffice.org ) gets more responsive than OOo-1.1*.rpm RH.
+boot time: faster than RH bootime
+stability: no app(s) has been crashed so far in my slackBox-9.1 except for one time w/ totem as I tried to take a snaoshot from a movie
+simplicity: i think this one plus w/ BSD init scriprs style speed slackware up compared with other distros
+uptodate: swaret, dropline is a good up2date and the same idea w/ the article’s author, the –CURRENT gives you a very quite stable version of apps.
+security: although slackware does not make a seperate group like RH (same name w/ username), but in details, it is a good secure system, and you can create a group and use it by yourself(if you are an admin and have priviledge to do that kind of job)
+pkg management: I think it is not bad as I compare with rpm or apt package management. However, i dun know why Slack ware does not use DEP. as installing pkg, there is no conflict in place of sripts. For example: as I install cabextract-0.6.1 from *.tar.gz, it doea not conflict w/ a cabextract-0.6 existed in slack before
And of line I ve just said:
Linux for Desktop/smalls+mid business = Slackwware + Swaret +Gnome +YOU(of course 🙂
Slackware, drives me to SLACK, where?
Eugenia,
Have you ever tried Arch Linux ?
It’s light, simple, stable and fast.
http://www.archlinux.org/
The last few years I’ve been using several different distribs (slack, redhat, debian, gentoo) and I finally found Arch linux to be the one that suits me the best.
I’d be interested to know what you think about it.
Not as mainstream as I would like it to. I prefer to use some more “popular” distros because theire support, faq googling and packages are more than these small distros.
./configure [–prefix if needed]
make
su
make install
Until Linux has some standard similar to Install Shield, that’s the only way I want to install software, unless people want to package software in self-installing .run or .bin. Enemy Territory (game), Army Ops, and many other commercial programs use this method, and it’s pretty easy.
I like slack. I’m posting this from a derivative, Vector. Swaret is decent management. It occasionally breaks packages, xmms and gaim to name a couple, and it’s not quite as polished as some managers. Usually doing a swaret reinstall will fix the package. It was pretty easy to upgrade KDE, etc, with swaret. I also tried slapt-get but didn’t seem to work well on my system.
Arch, mentioned above, is nice too. The packages are i686 optimized and pacman is powerful manager. Arch will require more tweaking than say Vector or Slack. I had to load several modules, and ended up adding hotplug to fix a couple of things.
As far as autodetection of hardware I was impressed with slack. SuSE sometimes screws up resolution of monitor, Slack always gets it right. I did have to add an append to lilo for the cdrw, and symlink for dvd.
Debian is also fine distro, but I hate the outdated packages. I may try unstable or testing in the future, but stable kind of sucks for daily desktop. For someone looking to venture beyond fedora/suse, slackware or debian is a good choice. And vector is nice intermediate choice, as it adds several config tools and has an easy installer.
The reason I ask this is, personally I only use it for mplayer (because it is cool and works extremely well on my old hardware) and for using gcc for Uni assignments that require *NIX.
So Eugenia what do you use it for, since it is not your everyday OS?
Slackware is good for a power user desktop
*chuckle* Slackware is ‘good’ for pretenders and poseurs. As somebody else recently observed on Usenet, when somebody pipes up with ‘slackware rules!’ in distro-discussions, they are almost invariably posting with the Microsoft Outlook client.
I’m using Slack 9.1 too, but If you really want a responsive Desktop, I recommend to use the ck-Patchset for more Desktop-Responsiveness:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/ckolivas/kernel/
and ROX-Filer as Gnome-Filemanager.
I’ll have to agree with Eugenia that Slackware is a fine distribution and that resolving dependencies is not an issue.
Most Slack packages I’ve installed were self-contained. If they weren’t, the hosting site clearly defined the dependencies and provided the appropriate download links.
Automatic dependency resolution can easily go belly up when faced with situations that a human being could easily resolve with a little common sense. (E.g., dependencies broken by bumped version numbrs that represent no change in executable code.)
I’ve concluded that automatic dependency resolution schemes typically generate the seeds of their own destruction by generating unecessarily complicated and bogus dependency chains. Sooner or later, I’ve always run into a “You Can’t Get There From Here” situation with the automagic stuff leaving me a broken system.
Dependency resolvers can’t read and they can’t think.
Eugina, thanks for this review. Slackware is a true Linux distro, not a wanna-be-wanna-change-linux-to-Mac-or-Windows distro. I often felt than osnews concentrated to much on the commercial distros and neglected the distros that make Linux, Linux, or the community distros. I also see a little bias for binary distros. But that is understandable. This is certainly a welcome change. 🙂
It would be wonderful if you could do a review of Gentoo. If you like Slackware, you’d fall in love with Gentoo. I wouldn’t use anything but Slack until I met Gentoo. Or even a comparison of source based ***community**** distros will be a real treat.
I feel source based distros are ahead of their time. As CPUs become more powerful and moore’ Law continues to be validated, I see a shift from binary distros to source based distros even withing corporations.
But all in all, this is a welcome change. I was really getting sick of the SUSE, Red Hat, JDS, Mandrake, etc, reviews. In my opinion, all of those commercial distros are a **BIG** dissappointment. It’s so bad, I see no reason to use them over the community distros.
To all of you, Slackware is on of the distros that make Linux, Linux. They exist not for your money. They exist because they think you deserve to use your computer the way you wish, and to make free software better.
I’m not sure if you realize just how easy to use gentoo is.
i want apache, php, mysql, phpmyadmin for example
emerge apache php mysql phpmyadmin and all cross dependencies are solved, so that nothing is installed twice. i don’t have to go download anything, it gets downloaded for me. etc etc.
i can’t see the advantage to having to hunt for packages on webpages, and “make sure” i get all the dependencies.
If you ask a question in alt.os.linux.slackware you will get attacked by the ‘regulars’ there – they hang around and wait to attack beginners. If somebody else once asked your same question (anywhere), you will be attacked for being lazy, dumb, and a timewaster. They will also try to get your ISP account cancelled if you say anything back.
Don’t believe me – TRY IT. Don’t say you weren’t warned. They particularly like to try to get people’s account cancelled who have cable modems.
The first Linux distro i tried was some redhat 6 or 7, i don’t really know, it came with a pc-zine i bought. Then, i used some more RHs, some mandrakes, some freebsds, debian… i guess that’s it. Then i found slackware. Slackware is really the distro that’s making me leave windows once and for all. I was still a complete newb when i first tried it (i couldn’t even install gentoo) and still am, but i’m learning more everyday, solving problems and tweaking things on slackware, and i love it, even those problems, i love them! don’t ask me why, but i do, it just makes me learn and move and read, it rules.
btw, i liked fbsd and debian too, i’d even consider using freebsd on a daily basis, but it is still not that newb-friendly for me.
the point is, i was a newb and i stuck with it. now i love it, even though my mouse wheel doesn’t work under gnome 🙂
I’m not sure if you realize just how easy to use gentoo is.
Oh, please. Why is it that everytime someone posts an article about !Gentoo distro, some Gentoo user has to come and shout something along the lines of “…but Gentoo does it better”
Eugenia hasn’t even mentioned Gentoo in the whole damn article.
I don’t have anything against Gentoo, I’ve onced tried to install it (well, the only problem was that I became seriously bored after 2 days of compiling and aborted the install, and GRP kind of beats the purpose of a completely source based distro for me). Gentoo may be a perfect distro for a lot of people, but that doesn’t mean that Gentoo users have to actually advertise it in every chance possible.
Also your example “i want apache, php, mysql, phpmyadmin for example” doesn’t really show anything special compared to many other distros. You have the same functionality in Debian (apt-get), various rpm based distros (yum / urpmi / a strange hack called ‘apt-rpm’
, Slackware (swaret & co.) and some other distros (Arch, etc.).
I think this attitude about the newsgroup is wrong. If you spend time reading that group you will find that they are very helpful when an intelligent question is asked. The do not suffer fools gladly however. If you ask a question that you can easily find the answer to by reading the email that Pat puts in roots mailbox, if you ask a question that is answered in the group’s FAQ, if you ask a question that is on the man page, you will normally be informed of that. The answer may be a bit rude and you may be told that next time you should at least put out a little effort to find the answer yourself. But part of the learning process is developing the ability to read the friendly manuals that are provided.
For beginners that are unable to figure very simple problems out for themselves by googling, or RTFMing there are other places to ask questions. You can go to irc.freenode.net, #slackware. Or you can ask on linuxquestions.org. Both of these are more forgiving of newbies. But when you have a tough problem that you have researched and can not find an answer at these 2 places, then the newsgroup is the place to go. They are very knowledgeable and very helpful when asked a question that has not been asked and answered a dozen times. These regulars are always reading this group. They don’t come and go. How much patience would anyone have when they are asked for the hundredth time, “why does my screen just have text on it and not a pretty desktop.
The only people I have ever seen that they reported to their ISP were complete arses that were spamming the newsgroup or making threatening remarks. Perhaps you fell into one of those categories. Most readers of the newsgroup are very good at killfiling posters and would not need to report someone to their ISP for just asking a stupid question.
hi
i have used slack 9.1 on desktop , but having probs trying to get it to install on a sony vaio z600(z505 us model) which has a pcmcia cdrom.
any suggestions/ideas
Thanks
<em>tip: on Slackware is best to always configure stuff as ./configure –prefix=/usr because some specific libs don’t like the default /usr/local location, even if it’s on the $PATH</em>
That’s crap. As a full-on Slackware user since 1996, I can honestly say that I have never, EVER used –prefix (except in the case of Apache, since I prefer having it install to /var/www/), and I’ve never had the problems you state. As long as ldconfig is happy, installations that look for libraries go perfectly smooth.
how do they try to get your account canceled?
I am sure they are mean, but what power do they have over yout ISP?
god I hope that none of those people are teachers.
get a new laptop 🙂
With all this talk of installing software, I’m surprised to see no mention of this…
It’s kinda like apt-get for Slackware. I find it works very well.
http://software.jaos.org/
The tone of the slackware newsgroup is, in many cases, unfriendly and reminiscent of the OS/2 advocacy groups. It isn’t doing Slackware any good.
Several frequent posters seem to have adopted an ownership attitude and are quick to jump on other posters for not adhering to the so-called rules of the group. Of course, no one can own a Usenet group and no one can impose their own rules. These guys are just posturing.
I have very limited patience with anyone who is, first, annoyed by newbie questions and, second, goes out of his way to post an abusive non-answer. Since they claim to be so annoyed, you’d think the last thing they’d want to do is spend even more time castigating someone. If they honestly believe they’re trying to police “their” group, I’d remind them that isn’t their job. If they want a newsgroup that doesn’t attract newbies, they should start one.
Pat’s mail to root is, I suspect, left unread by many newbies who either don’t see the “you have mail” message, and/or don’t know how to read it. In any case, that’s about the last place you’d look for help with a problem that pops up several weeks after installation.
The newsgroup’s FAQ is neither very useful or very visible, so there’s little wonder people ask questions that are answered in it. Certainly, there is no reason to expect that anyone who doesn’t frequent the newsgroup would have any reason to know that the FAQ exists. Why not post a link to that rather than launch into a tirade about how to ask questions?
One cute trick is post a link to ESR’s rant on asking questions. These guys want people to prove themselves via a rite of passage — demonstrating that they’ve looked everywhere for an answer –before they’ll deign to treat them with respect.
But, in all cases, people will ask question that are answered elsewhere. That’s no excuse for rude replies. Posters who post rude replies are just that: rude.
I’ve been using slack for a month or two now, and have been pretty impressed overall. I like the inherent simplicity of it. However that said, there are some issues there, particularly kernel ones. I’ve installed slack at home with little problems, an Athlon 1.2 with ‘real’ hardware components, not crappy integrated stuff. I’ve also installed it at work on a P4 with highly integrated intel chip components (eeproo100 eth card, i810 audio, i845 video) and there has been some issues. When you look at dmesgs you’ll see a slew of errors with the i810 module show up. Also, the framebuffer seems a bit funky, but that could just be me. A friend here also installed it, and noticed an NFS install using the ISOs would not work. He had to make a directory of the tgz files and install it that way. (note he didn’t have a hard copy of the ISOs at the time). He also had the issue with incorrect modules, and had to fix it by installing a vanilla kernel which worked fine. So, anyhow, slack is nice, but far from perfect.
On another note, I wanted to know if anybody could tell me how 9.1 gets the fonts so freaking crisp, I love it. I’ve been using Bitstream fonts on other distros now, and while they do looks good, they don’t kind have the crispness I saw in gnome 2.4 under slack 9.1. Anyone know why?
Lastly, on a totally different note, I’ve been trying SuSE pro 9.0 lately, and must say, for a person who said a couple of weeks ago that SuSE sucks, I’m really, really impressed. They have one fine distro there now, one that I will be recommending to others.
“The newsgroup’s FAQ is neither very useful or very visible, so there’s little wonder people ask questions that are answered in it. Certainly, there is no reason to expect that anyone who doesn’t frequent the newsgroup would have any reason to know that the FAQ exists. Why not post a link to that rather than launch into a tirade about how to ask questions? ”
Not visible? The link to the FAQ is posted on the newsgroup several times a day.
From article > Some effort to include integrated server/system tools for various tasks and some differentiation on the desktop side would be most welcome
Are the GUI apps that redhat/fedora ship with their distro not properitary? I just assumed everyone else had those tools too.
Just make sure you always do a “./configure –prefix=/usr” instead of a simple “./configure” because some apps like python-gtk bindings don’t like getting installed on teh default /usr/local/. That path is on the $PATH but these bindinds require to be on /usr so always-always do your configures with –prefix=/usr
I dont think thats the best idea in the world. You might end up overwriting some important libraries. /usr/local is there for a reason, that’s where all of your additional software is supposed to go.
PATH doesnt have a whole lot do w/ software finding libraries it needs, that is /etc/ld.so.conf’s job. Just make sure /usr/local/lib is in /etc/ld.so.conf and you’re set. It’s much safer to just install anything outside the distro in the default, /usr/local. /usr is for distro stuff.
The easiest way I found to do the nested X session was to install Dropline. They add an icon in the System area of the Applications menu that handles starting up the nested X and you can select any of the available window managers or desktop environments.
Yes I know, 70+ posts, but just read through all coments tp see if it had been mentioned.
What is font handling like in Slackware? I gave up on Mandrake (partly) because the fonts sucked, especially the scaling. What is the situation like in Slack? Yahoo groups was the main problem.
Also, is installation really that difficult? I installed Slackware on a 486 back in 1996 I think, and it worked fine. Has it changed much since then? Or has everyone else’s installers just gone forward?
Some of you considering using Slackware might bennefit from this FAQ I wrote a while back. Although it focuses on Slack 9.0 99% of it applies just as well to 9.1 (or older versions for that matter).
You can find the document at http://www.linuxtux.org/~juhl/slackwarefaq/
If the last time you installed Slack was in 1996, you’ll find it has improved a lot since then, as has Lnux in general.
Slack 9.1 uses XFree86 4.3.0, and includes Bitstream’s Vera truetype fonts. On my system — Matrox G500 and aging ViewSonic PS790 — Slack’s X display quality is excellent. (I do find it better in Dropline Gnome than in KDE, though.)
The install remains non-graphical. By itself, that’s a non-issue. But, although Slack does a good job of detecting hardware, new installs require manual partioning and manual XFree86 setup. That said, once you know what you’re doing, Slack installs very quickly.
I am what I’d call a power-newbie. I’m new to using Linux, but not new to computers and I’ve read TONS about Linux before making the jump.
Some months ago I installed Mandrake 9.1 but it was slow on my hardware and I felt that I wasn’t learning anything about Linux. It felt bloated and I stopped using it figuring that I needed better hardware to run modern Linux + X.
Well, ~5 days ago I installed Slackware 9.1 and it runs like a charm! Just by reading the “Slackware Book” on the website and a few Slack forums I could install and configure the thing perfectly.
I even, for the first time, recompiled a kernel (upgraded from 2.4.22 to 2.4.23, and optimized it for my CPU) and everything worked like a charm.
Slackware feels really snappy in XFce 4.0.1 (which I upgraded from 3.99 with Swaret), my favourite WM, but it *also* feels fast in KDE , to the contrary of Mandrake.
Sure I had to learn a little bit of CLI, but that’s the beauty of it. On Mandrake you don’t *have* to learn it to configure thing, so when things go wrong or you want to change something that isn’t GUI, you have no idea at all what to do.
Long live Slackware!
I try Slack, Debian, and Gentoo, and the other’s distro. So Slack is nice with the swaret & co.
Debian its a very nice distro but i sugest the unstable for desktop, the apt-get it’s just amazing.
Gentoo, is a very good distro the pros is the optimization. In a post I read that: “emerge php, mysql, etc” and I say: it’s true but you do: “emerge php, mysql, etc”. and you wait and wait and wait and wait, this i good for the people who have time to spend, the other people can’t wait so much time to do emerge.
In that moment my distro is Debian/unstable but I search a distro like vector, or arch, i686 optimized, and easy to update and config.
Ever tried compiling a new build of Freetype? I was scratching my head for quite some time before I realised it was going into the wrong place.
But alas, now I have some good quality fonts
“”emerge php, mysql, etc”. and you wait and wait and wait and wait, this i good for the people who have time to spend, the other people can’t wait so much time to do emerge.”
I hate to turn a Slackware review into a Gentoo ad, but sometimes there’s a need to clear some misconceptions. Most, I’d be bold and suggest 95%, of software packages do not take more than 5 mins to compile on a 1GHz and above machine. In fact, a lot more take less.
Only a few packages take a ridiculous amount of time to compile. And when you compile them, you hardly need to compile them for weeks or if not months to come. It’s not as if you compile them every hour. It’s also not as if compiling a package prevents you from using your box.
Just to get some Myths out of the way.
I started with Slack in 98, I found it easier (v 3.5) than RedHat (5.2) and Debian to use. IMHO, for a beginner to start with, it makes any other distro a piece of cake to use after you get the hang of it. BSD init scripts rock! you have about a dozen, compared to the RedHat setup which has a lot more in various directories. As far as updates, there’s a script (find it on freshmeat.net) called update-slackware that automates the updates for you…it’s a simple BASH script, I run it from my file server and all my other machines can update from that one. It’s a breeze!
cheers!
I recently made the switch back to Slackware and haven’t looked back. I’m an “above average user” who prefers to compile much of my own software anyways. It seems to fit a perfect balance for me. The binary distribution with a nearly flawless, core set of libraries that about anything reasonably coded and distributed compiles on. Its nice to know exactly what options, patches are compiled into your applications/kernel.
The reason people like Slackware is that it doesn’t pretend it’s a desktop Linux. It’s just there, and you do what you need to do. People get disappointed with Red Hat and Mandrake because it tries to be something Linux is just not ready for yet, but with Slackware, you can roll your own
I know this isn’t a distro war, but I’ve used both Gentoo and Slackware(slackware was my first distro from the 3.x series back in 1996-ish) and I like Slackware a whole lot more.
I’ve seen published benchmarks(can’t find the damn link) that actually show an architecture specific compile of Gentoo performing slower than the “generic” installs of other distributions. And almost every distro thats worth its weight has an “apt-get” or “emerge” substitute. So lets all quit the squawking about which distro is better, and just help people that like slackware get into it.
The Norwegian Slackware mirror http://www.slackware.no is a fast reliable mirror, that provides all these packages (OpenOffice w/gnome, Mozilla Thunderbird/Firebird, Mplayer, frozen bubbles, java, gkrellm, ++) in a “misc” ISO. Quite nice!
Good article on linux.
I never had dependency problems with Slackware 9. Now .rpm based distros like Lycoris yes they drove me crazy. But I can’t think of a single dependency issue I had with Slack 9 building from source.
>That’s crap.
No it is not. Try compiling gtk-python and if it gets installed on /usr/local pkgconfig goes berzerk for gtk-python apps.
FYI, Plastik is not the default for KDE 3.2. The developers don’t want to make a change like that when the default was just changed in 3.1. Plastik may be up for consideration in 4.0, however. Its one of the few professional-looking themes out there. Just glitzy enough to be easy on the eyes, but still kinda generic and easy to deal with.
And that’s why it should be the default then. Plastic is a world better than Keramic IMO.
Try compiling gtk-python and if it gets installed on /usr/local pkgconfig goes berzerk for gtk-python apps.
I downloaded the newest PYGTK from http://gimp.tsuren.net/mirror/gtk/python/v2.0/“>here = 1.99.0… Package gtkgl-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path.” Not a surprise, considering gtkgl isn’t installed.
After it was installed, I downloaded and installed a PyGTK application called “<a href=”http://www.nolongervalid.com/heartbeat/“>heartbeat” and attempted to run it. Python couldn’t find the gtk module, however that was also not a surprise considering I didn’t have PYTHONPATH defined (since I never use python). A quick “export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/gtk-2.0/” and heartbeat immediately started working.
So where’s the problem?
Well, gDesklets wouldn’t work for me. /usr/local is on the $PATH, but pkgconfig would not find the python/gtk libs if they wouldn’t get installed on /usr/.
slackware is hands down my favorite distribution to work with, so it doesn’t have a nice gui setup–I
don’t care. It’s stable, secure, and I find that
the installation, upgrade, and maintenance to be
rather intuitive. Actually, I’m rather fond of
the installation process for slackware!
If you don’t know how to modify config files or are too busy to bother, maybe you shouldn’t even be extracting the power of linux. Go get Xandros or some whack distro like Lindows, or why not stay
on Windows and/or Mac. I don’t use linux because
I’m tired of Windows or can’t afford mac, I use
linux for the power. Nothing else rapes your x86 better.
Besides, it’s really not that hard to look up usenet or google groups or to read up linux documentation for all the answers. I’d definitely say that slackware was hard in the beginning, but as I came to better understand linux in general, now it’s a piece of cake. Learning about the
system through slackware has been invaluable. I can’t see how you can use those other distros without understanding or never having to tweak
a config file. That’s just the way it is now. And who knows, maybe someone will create a gui for you someday, but it’s always nice to know the nuts and bolts. And scripting sometimes is a whole lot better than clicking through a gui.
I don’t think slackware is being hurt by not attracting newbies. It’s the businesses and pro users that revel in it. So hate slackware all you want, it’s not going away anytime soon.
Well, gDesklets wouldn’t work for me. /usr/local is on the $PATH, but pkgconfig would not find the python/gtk libs if they wouldn’t get installed on /usr/.
That’s your problem. Why are you editing $PATH? You should be defining $PKG_CONFIG_PATH. Even the error messages generated by ./configure are telling you this.
For what it’s worth, I just compiled gDesklets perfectly. This is a total case of pilot error being blamed on the distribution.
Hey Eugenia, it looks like your wish for FAM have been granted! Todd (THE man behind Dropline) has just released a dropline update including FAM latest version!
With nested login a default in Dropline and gdesklets working perfectly thanks to a contributed package (see Dropline forum), have you considered trying Dropline fully – rather than just nicking some dropline packages occasionally ;-)?
>Why are you editing $PATH?
I did NOT edit any paths! I just did a normal installation of gtk-python and gDesklets wouldn’t compile because its pkgconfig check was not able to find gtk-python! And yes, /usr/local IS on the $PATH! So, drop it.
Add
export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig
or better
export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig:/usr/X11R6/lib/pkgconfig
to /etc/profile
pkgconfig doesn’t care for your PATH variable.
It only looks for *.pc files under the prefix it has been installed, that is /usr/lib/pkgconfig
If I was needed to do that manually, then it is a problem of the distribution. I should not have to edit these files to setup the already installed pkgconfig to work with libs that are installed on /usr/local it should have being transparent to the user.
Shout at Havoc.
There was a discussion about it on freedesktop.org.
Keith Packard suggested to enhance the pkgconfig default search path. But Havoc didn’t like it, I can’t remember why.
Once you run slackware you never look back! I reviewed Vector 4 when it was released and despite the fact it’s based on Slackware and the fact that I *really* liked it – it’s still been removed from my system.
For me Slackware and FreeBSD are the two greatest alternate OSes. I used to be all for BeOS but it’s too unusable these days (looking forward to zeta though).
Slack becomes something of a way of life. It’s addictive. SlackwareBSD would be awesome – but ONLY if Patrick made it.