Linux creator Linus Torvalds spoke to Australian IT during his visit to Adelaide this week for Linux.conf.au, his second after attending last year’s conference in Perth. Linus now says that while Linux is well deep into the server space and market, the home desktop will take 5 to 10 years to be equally competitive with other solutions.
Linus Torvalds: Linux Desktop in 5 to 10 Years
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Before the trolls and flamebaiters get started, let’s make it clear that Torvalds is talking about the home desktop and run by average users. Linux has made enormous inroads into the corporate desktop in the last few years — just in the last month or two we’ve seen Sun’s contract to deploy 500,000 Linux desktops in China, and IBM’s plan to convert most of its internal desktops to Linux.
We have two fully-fledged (albeit heavy) desktop environments, a hugely powerful office suite, and stacks of other apps and tools. Linux will have a sizeable chunk of the corporate desktop within 3 years, but as Torvalds says it’ll take at least 5 before home users really latch on.
Please also note, Linus Torvalds is not the prevailing authority on the subject. What he says of course has value, but just because he says it, doesn’t make it true.
Im just trying to prevent the “even linus says it” trolls.
In my opinion, it does make it pretty true. Linus never talks out of his a$$. He has many meetings with a lot of Linux-related companies all the time (yes, I know this for sure) and these companies have made their research already (e.g. novell, red hat, montavista etc etc). He is very well informed of whatever is involved in any Linux market, be assured of this.
I give props to Linus, this is why I really like him. He is objective.
The home desktop always follows the work desktop. The only reasone the PC became popular in the home space was that it gained a lot of ground (with cheaply available DOS, and the fact the hardware was _open_) in the coporate space, and Linux is gaining ground there for the same reasons. When compared to the likes of AMIGA for things like ease of use, abundance of software, abundance of games (always discussed when talking about the linux desktop) it was basically crap. But it had wordperfect, and people used it at work, and the only way to use it at home was to buy a PC.
I am interested in who is the prevailing authority – a guy who said linux has been ready since last year ?
To all those lame geeks that insisted that Linux was already ready for the desktop in 2000, in 2001, in 2002 and (once more) in 2003.
Clue: it wasn’t and it isn’t in 2004, still.
Yeah, Linus is “not the prevailing authority on the subject”.
IBM is also not the prevailing authority on the subject. Red Hat’s CEO is also not the prevailing authority on the subject.
I guess only spotty admin-type geeks on /. and Osnews are the “prevailing authority”. More power to them!
and have been using it as my desktop OS for the last year or so but seriously, cut it out with all these “linux on the desktop” articles.Their just flamebait.
Just because its not yet a major player in the desktop market, doesn’t mean it isn’t ready to be.
It has been ready for a little while now, and nothing you say can change that reality. The only question is when it actually WILL be on desktops in a significant way. Thats what is open for interpretation. I think Linus is a bit pessemistic in this case, but not far off.
well thats awfully adult of you
I’ve been using linux as my main desktop for years. Do i still use Windows? Of course,, but only for work stuff.
Was windows 3.1/95/98/2000/XP ready for all home users? I wouldn’t say so,, you may find marketing research from our favorite PR comp. that may say different. I think its the support infastructure that is in place.. But that isnt to great either (ask anyone who had to call a support line).
Its all a matter of aptitude. I know corporate systems people that dont know windows 2000/XP very well either (amazing in my opinion).
Most users refuse to read any Windows help files so having them use linux is insane.. As they wont RTFM for that either..
Basically i think they are referring to the people who still have their DVD/VCR still flashing 12:00. Anyone willing to read a windows manual, for any product, could read the same type of manual for Linux and do fine. Its the people who dont want to use the machine as a computer/tool that they are referring to. So called surfers/email-addicts..
Windows, OSX, Linux – its all the same if you dont want to have to learn. And that is something common to all OS’s like it or not.
Why wasn’t this guy moded down? He is offtopic and his tone & language are wrong…
I’m a big linux fan and user, but let’s try being objective here. Linus hasn’t said that linux is not ready for the desktop (as in not mature enough) – we just don’t have enough apps to take on windows. So the 5 years he is speaking about is the period in which we’ll *hopefully* get more apps and fine-tune the existing ones to the max. I mean DETAILS, boys and girls! Little things that usually MAKE such a big difference.
Leave the guy alone, it’s not like he’s swearing. He just didn’t use the “F” word;) Maybe he didn’t intend to use it in the first place. Well – use your imagination to fill the unclear caracters.
:::PROUD TO LIVE IN THE BIRTHLAND OF LINUX:::
“IBM is also not the prevailing authority on the subject.”
So a company that’s going through one of the biggest desktop Linux adoptions in history has no say in the matter?
Linux is the fastest growing OS in the world. It’s being deployed everywhere, and increasingly on corporate desktops. Learn to live with it. I’d rather listen to IBM, Red Hat and Torvalds than some troll on a website…
I have been using GNU/Linux as my main and only desktop since late 1998. It has always done what I have needed. So for me.. it was ready in 1998.
Listen to what ? Linux is not yet ready for home desktop ?
Linus isn’t saying that Linux will be desktop-ready in 5 to 10 years, just that it will take 5 to 10 years before it becomes common on the average home user’s desktop. Those are two very different things.
Personally, I think that Mac OS X is quite desktop-ready – and yet it’s not commonly found on home desktops. Market share has little to do with techical and ergonomical merit, but rather is the direct results of economics, marketing, and consumer habits.
yet you are not the prevailing authority on the subject.
The great thing about Linus is that he just does his things, one line of code at a time; It doesn’t matter if it was ready in 1998, 2003, or will be ready in 2004 or 5 years down the road.
Those are two very different things.
True, but this way it triggers far more comments and site hist.
Eugenia is clever, she knows how to phrase things for better effect
if it was simple to just download a new software and double click install it like in ms windows(even in win95 that was avaible) or mac osx, i guess linux would have at least 3-4times the user she has now.
But no, people kept sayin how easy its to compile from source, how great its to install from scrach(gentoo etc..),people kept telling how fun its to wait for hours to compile simply a OS(most people in this planet still uses dial up, including me). Well yeah, see??? most of the world is not on those people side
is it a suprise?
I do have computer engineer friends of my own, they are like those people on most of the subjects…well i can convince my friends sometimes but those who works on GNU linux can’t be convinced
Some will say, Lindows(and some other distros) has that, and some will tell about apt-rpm,apt-get etc.;) yeah yeah, i’m not talkin about that, i’m simply talking about common libs, backword compatibility etc where linux will some day will agree(not reach coz, she can if she wants it!)
if it was simple to just download a new software and double click install it
That’s the old and not very comfortable way.
The new and better way is to add the download source and install it with one click and have it automatically available for updates because you have not downloaded an old fashioned installer but told the system an application source.
I will go with IDC and agree that Linux will be ready in 2005.
Developers tend to overestimate when their products are ready because they know all the details inside out and are overwhelmed by the number of things that can be improved.
I think a 2005 to 2006 estimate is much more realistic.
yet you are not the prevailing authority on the subject.
—-
I know.. which is exactly WHY is used the word “me” in my statement, because for ME it was ready. That doesn’t make me an authority for anyone but myself. I don’t were you got the idea I was saying I am an authority for anyone else but myself.
The only authority on if GNU/Linux is ready for the desktop is the indiviual users, no one person can say its ready. If it works for you then its ready for your desktop.
The only authority on if GNU/Linux is ready for the desktop is the indiviual users, no one person can say its ready. If it works for you then its ready for your desktop.
The conscientious is that it is not ready, since by that “ready time”, people will be as interested in this sort of topics as in “Windows is not ready for home desktop”.
“if it was simple to just download a new software and double click install it like in ms windows(even in win95 that was avaible) or mac osx, i guess linux would have at least 3-4times the user she has now.”
Not really. Linux’s current lack of marketshare is more down to lack of bundling and exposure, along with various other factors.
On the topic of software installation, though, I find the situation much better than in Windows. With an RPM-based Linux system, installing and removing software is a single command away.
In Windows, you have to wander through arbitrary InstallShield wizards, all of which are slightly different, and you end up with some files in ‘Program Files’, some in the Windows dir, bits in the registry, and all sorts of other hassles.
Give me “rpm -i” and “rpm -u” over that any day. Saves time, is easier and simpler, and works much better when there are problems. Plus, it’s easy to put a graphical front-end to it if you’d rather click than press enter…
I am sure Linus is well informed, but in the end, it’s still opinion, and you can’t say his opinion is the “right” one.
He’s also said he thinks KDE is better than GNOME (code/development wise), should we all switch to KDE?
We listen to his opinion because he’s a very smart man, but we all don’t have to agree with it.
o we really need to help Eugenia, until OSNews becomes another slashdot.org
That seems to be the goal
You can’t always tell the truth, a speculation with doubt is more appropiate.
Whatever the goals, OSNews provides a forum where selected topics could be discussed or debated. For me, slashdot.org is far too wide reaching and only good for occasional reading, but not posting.
I think that linux is not yet ready for “joe” desktops is not a problem of linux. It is a problem of the commercial software industry, who don’t port your applications for linux or anything non-windows (except in some cases MacOS & MAC OS X) and a problem of hardware industry, who don’t make drivers for all your products.
For me, linux is already a better desktop than windows. Using linux on desktop makes your PC a powerfull workstation, like Sun and HP workstations, not only a toy OS designed for dumbs like windows. I could do all the things (and MUCH MORE) that windows does if there would a linux port of all windows software.
Games ?! I remember many people saying that NT was not adequate to games (in fact DOS was more efficient to run games) and nowadays nobody says that. Why linux cannot be used to play games ?
I think that linux is not yet ready for “joe” desktops is not a problem of linux. It is a problem of the commercial software industry, who don’t port your applications for linux or anything non-windows (except in some cases MacOS & MAC OS X) and a problem of hardware industry, who don’t make drivers for all your products.
Because there is no market share and no hardware advantage. Linux’s abysmal backword compatibility doesn’t help either.
KDE, Qt, Gnome and GTK+ are still moving target.
There is a major distinction between being ready for the desktop, and being on the desktop. Linux is already ready for many desktop roles. Workstations, educational institutions, corporate offices, kiosks, internet terminals, etc. Its probably even ready for the lowest-end home users, who have somebody knowledgable to do their tech support anyway. The only thing its really not ready for are intermediate and advanced Windows users — those that have no problems playing with the registry, but blanch at editing a text file.
Now, whether Linux is being adopted by these people is a seperate issue entirely. Of course, adoption lags behind readyness. So just because Linux is ready, doesn’t mean that its going to necessarily be adopted. MacOS has been ready for decades, but it hasn’t exactly been tearing up the mainstream.
And why is everyone so concerned with popularity? Is something better because it is more popular? If Linux gets just 10% of the desktop market. I’ll be satisfied. That’s just enough users to support many companies making some good profits of the Linux market, and just enough to get hardware and software vendors to pay a bit of attention to us. Beyond that, its all gravy. As Linus himself said, if Linux goes much about 40-50%, it will be equally sick as Microsoft having 90%. The days of a platform monoculture are dead.
<Linux’s abysmal backword compatibility doesn’t help either.
KDE, Qt, Gnome and GTK+ are still moving target. >
And the .Net technology ? It will change all the develop environment also. When M$ changed windows from DOS to NT base many applications and drivers broke.
OK, M$ was smart administering these issues but there was also legacy problems.
Computer science is a moving target. It is not linux exclusivity.
I still can run old Motif commercial applications in a moder n linux because linux permits that I put the old dynamic libraries (required by the legacy program) even in the same directory of the new versions. All linux libraries are versioned. In windows it is not possible.
but M$ has market and mind shares – that’s making all the differences.
because linux permits that I put the old dynamic libraries (required by the legacy program) even in the same directory of the new versions. All linux libraries are versioned. In windows it is not possible.
In XP, every program could use libraries it likes – even same version with different built options.
D:WINDOWSWinSxS>dir /b
InstallTemp
Manifests
Policies
x86_Microsoft.Tools.VisualCPlusPlus.Runtime-Libraries_6595b64144ccf1df _6.0.0.0_x-ww_ff9986d7
x86_Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.0.0_x-ww_13 82d70a
x86_Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.10.0_x-ww_f 7fb5805
x86_Microsoft.Windows.CPlusPlusRuntime_6595b64144ccf1df_7.0.0.0_x-ww_2 726e76a
x86_Microsoft.Windows.CPlusPlusRuntime_6595b64144ccf1df_7.0.10.0_x-ww_ d8862ba3
x86_Microsoft.Windows.GdiPlus_6595b64144ccf1df_1.0.0.0_x-ww_8d353f13
x86_Microsoft.Windows.GdiPlus_6595b64144ccf1df_1.0.0.1_x-ww_8d353f14
x86_Microsoft.Windows.GdiPlus_6595b64144ccf1df_1.0.10.0_x-ww_712befd8
x86_Microsoft.Windows.Networking.Dxmrtp_6595b64144ccf1df_5.2.0.4868_x- ww_212f7d9e
x86_Microsoft.Windows.Networking.RtcDll_6595b64144ccf1df_5.2.0.4868_x- ww_b168a28c
It is a problem of the commercial software industry, who don’t port your applications for linux or anything non-windows
That’s mostly a problem for older applications. A lot of companies that do new development, already leverage the possibility of mulitplatform support with one single source base using the available crossplatform toolkits.
For example the older products of brockhaus.de (encyclopedia) are available on Windows and MacOS9 only.
The new ones on Windows, MacOSX and Linux thanks to the portability of Qt based code.
Porting an application written for one platform to another is expensive, developing multiplatform isn’t in most cases (depends on the applications requirements, games for example are more difficult than something like an editor)
I would like to add that HP has just anounced that they have made 2.5 BILLION dollars in Linux sales this year.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=620&ncid=738&e=9&u=…
Excellent posting!
The readyness is not a boolean thing its more a set of levels.
Each level increases the group of potential customers, but the number of actual customers increase at a slower rate or might not increase at all.
I’ve pointed out the timeframe as around 10-13 year before:
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=5542&limit=no
It was based on projecting where Linux is today, and where it has to be before Joe Six Pack adopts it.
Now Linus has made it official. Can we now please stop with the “Linux is ready for the desktop 2004, 2005, 2006 etc.” game?
It may be ready for YOU or GEEK JR., but we are talking about Joe-Six-Pack here. Ten years folks, not “soon”, or next year.
And there are literally thousands of apps that need to be developed/improved before Linux is even within a spitting distance to Windows and OSX… and those are not standing in place waiting for Linux to get its act together. Competition. Welcome to it. As Linux gets more ready, MSFT we will start playing _real_ hardball. You can’t even conceive in your dreams what MSFT is going to do – legal measures, legislative (corrupt politicians) and on and on and on. Linux will hopefully win in the end, but the war hasn’t even really started.
“I have been using GNU/Linux as my main and only desktop since late 1998. It has always done what I have needed. So for me.. it was ready in 1998.”
That sums it up really. Just saying something is or isn’t ready for the desktop is a bit meaningless. You have to take people as individuals, something that’s perfect for one user is useless junk for another.
For me the primitive support for multiple displays in Linux is too much of a downgrade. Other people don’t use more than one monitor or have a setup that works fine in Linux, so for them it’s a non issue. Obviously there are Windows problems that drive Linux fans nuts which I don’t even notice.
It’s the same with software, for some people the software available for Linux is great. Personally I need to run Macromedia and Microsoft apps, so I’d have to run Crossover Office and dual boot.
I think the zealots should try to accept that Linux and Windows both have their own advantages and disadvantages. Zealots on both sides make themselves look like idiots by calling each other names just because of the OS they use.
Hopefully Linux and Windows will both improve and start to lose their remaining disadvantages. I’d love for Linux to someday meet my needs, it’ll be interesting to watch it’s progress.
You can’t even conceive in your dreams what MSFT is going to do – legal measures, legislative (corrupt politicians) and on and on and on.
So, in your view, MS can only prevail by playing dirty?
The problem is that everyone is now watching MS, waiting for a chance to sue it. If it starts doing some really shady stuff and gets caught, it could be the target of renewed attacks by the DOJ (especialy if Bush gets beaten during the next election) – and this time, it would get real punishment instead of a slap on the wrist: company being split in two or more groups, Windows code being forced open, a forced Office version for *nix, etc.
Rayiner Hashem
Excellent post, as always. You, sir, rock.
So, in your view, MS can only prevail by playing dirty?
No, I didn’t say that. In addition to (obviously) their product and legal ways, they will also play dirty. But please understand what that means… it doen’s automatically mean ILLEGAL. There are plenty of ways to play dirty and legal – take a look at SCO. You can “lobby” LEGALLY politicians and they’ll pass nasty laws in your favor… or haven’t you been paying attention to DMCA and copyright laws passed at Hollywood’s bequest? Which is not to say they can’t play illegally too… they’ve done that often enough.
The problem is that everyone is now watching MS, waiting for a chance to sue it. If it starts doing some really shady stuff and gets caught, it could be the target of renewed attacks by the DOJ (especialy if Bush gets beaten during the next election) – and this time, it would get real punishment instead of a slap on the wrist: company being split in two or more groups, Windows code being forced open, a forced Office version for *nix, etc.
You sound like a nice kid, and I wish what you say were true. But it is also a terribly naive view. MSFT has already “gotten away with murder” – and look what happened. You can be quite assured that the gutless and hopelessly outgunned JD will be totally incapable of taking on MSFT. Past is prologue to the future. I have no such optimism – just look at how Bush got “elected” in the first place (or should I say appointed by a one vote majority of conservatives on the supreme court). The system is broken. The only hope is that the marketplace will prevail despite MSFT’s advantages.
I happen to fall into the camp of whether Linux is ready for *me.* I tried Yellow Dog 3.0 over the summer as my only machine, and decided that it didn’t meet my needs. However, I found it best suited to some tasks. In the meantime, I have found an outlet for retired PIIs, and low-end PIIIs. (It’s the old machines that a local, rather affluent university is getting rid of to make room for new ones.) One is a Win2k machine that I boot occasionally, and I have yet to buy another (two or three.) Now, I don’t believe that all of my computational needs can be met by one machine. My iBook would make a pretty terrible file/web server. My ATX Win2k desktop would make a lousy portable, and so on and so forth. I had been considering investing another $35 in purchasing a second PII for a headless linux fileserver. With the recent article about some wonderful ncurses based programs, I am considering adding some other functions onto that machine. The prospect of using GNU screen, and SSH to get work done from any computer certainly is a tantalizing one.
This may seem like it has no point, but what I’m trying to say is that NO computer system (linux, windows, os x or otherwise) can meet all of my needs at this point, but several machines working in tandem can come very, very close. I see Linux as highly relevant in addressing some of my computing needs, but none as the be-all and end-all.
Capice?
“I happen to fall into the camp of whether Linux is ready for *me.*”
I meant to say that I don’t worry about forcing Linux on others. If it becomes the best tool for their job, they will use it.
“I would like to add that HP has just anounced that they have made 2.5 BILLION dollars in Linux sales this year.”
Don’t tell Richard Stallman!
Richard Stallman doesn’t have anything against people making money. What he wants is software that is free as in freedom, not free as in no charge. Its okay to disagree with his opinions, but lets not misrepresent them.
You sound like a nice kid
Hey, I’m 34! 🙂
But it is also a terribly naive view.
I disagree – because while MS is powerful and has lots of monies devoted to lobbying, they also have competitors – competitors who now see Linux as their “secret weapon” to detrhone the Redmond giant.
I’m not thinking that the DOJ would go after MS because that’s the right thing to do, but because there are other interests at play that would push for such a crackdown (in the case of illegal actions, of course – as you said, there are plenty of legal if immoral means to get your way.
BTW, please don’t think that I don’t know how politics really work. I follow this pretty closely, and actually have some friends working in politics (in Canada). I also happen to be a conspiracy theory buff – I usually don’t take those theories at face value, but I know there’s often a grain of truth in there. I’ve read Chomsky, including Manufacturing Consent and Necessary Illusions. So I’m no starry-eyed believer in the system – but I know that there are forces opposing Microsoft, and combined they are actually stronger than MS (they are, however, competing against each other as well, so it’s not a done deal by any means).
I agree with your politics, but please don’t assume I’m a novice when it comes to realpolitik.
I love Linus, and I want him to have my kids! (Im sick of them!)
Mac has it easy (as always) the define the hardware them self. Dell cound probably have a Linux based system on the market and ready for the desktop in two months if they put there mind to it. (And then just pray that the chipmakers they picked dont change there products or go chptr 11). Why are the hardware compatibility lists so crappy? HP should spend the money they make for a “Works with Linux” drive. A sticker on every hardware box!
Oh, and everyone should have to use TWM!
Hey, I’m 34! 🙂
You’re still a kid, I’m 35
)
Chomsky? OK, I see you are well-read, sorry for any hasty assumptions (but when you talk to kids these days, Chomsky draws a blank). Sadly, many of my friends here, are so gung-ho pro-Bush that I’ve gotten used to arguing with folks who are information-impaired. Oh well.
Back to Linux – honestly, I do feel that MSFT is not just going to sit back and let Linux roll over them. I rather suspect that they have not shown their aces yet, by a long shot. These folks can play rough – very, very rough. As a freedom-loving person, who has seen freedom very much defeated here at home base USA, I am no longer optimistic about the system. Corruption, lies, and “might makes right” seem to win the day time after time.
Linux has about a 1% presence on the desktop right now. Folks say “that’s how DOS started” etc., but they forget that computer penetration was at tiny (relatively) levels back then. Today, at least in the developed world, the market is saturated – and the incumbent, is Windows. That situation of saturation + incumbency did not exist when Apple fought with Windows, OS2 etc. So, it is not a straight comparison. I’m still somewhat hopeful about Linux prevailing, I’m just prepared for a long, hard, bloody war.
I AM! NO! I AM! NO! I AM…
And so the chorus of geeks continues to rise until there is a all out flame postfeast equivilant to that of slashdot or krishin.
The fact of the matter, the people who have the authority to judge whether it is read for the desktop are the people in the market place. If the marketplace deem it is ready for the desktop, it is ready.
Linux isn’t ready for the corporate desktop because it lacks the applications required. Most people here have never been into an office in their life.
We’re not talking about a piddly VB custom written applicaion, we’re talking about accounting software along the lines of MYOB as one example. People aren’t going to give up functionality for a feel good factor.
The fact of the matter, if you run Windows XP on a name brand machine, update when required, run an anti-virus and ensure your software running on top of the OS is updated regularly, the so-called “issues” aren’t seen.
That is what you’re up against. You need to convince not only that your solution is better but that they can continue on as they were and be even more productive given the same resources at their disposal.
No one has yet done a bloody thing to address the shortage of applications for Linux. Where is IBM? come on all your IBM fan boys, what the fudge has IBM done in the many years of hype to actually bring a bloody software vendor to Linux to produce desktop applications? why does IBM still insist on ONLY developing Lotus Notes and Smartsuite for Windows? why haven’t they visibly pushing Linux as a desktop solution for their Thinkcentre line?
Is this a company interested in Linux or just yet another vendor jumping on the latest hype that rolled passed the door. If it isn’t SUN with their “dot in dot com” and Microsoft with the dot net hype we have IBM and HP rolling along claiming Linux to be the turn key solution to every problem.
The sooner people stop listening to these so-called “analysist” and get back to reality, the sooner we’ll actually see people saying, “why on earth were we dragged down the garden path?” and “Linux for the desktop? what are you smoking? I can’t even get a crucial piece of software I need for my business!”.
I agree that MS hasn’t really started their offensive yet, but I do believe that the community is ready to resist, and that they have powerful allies in MS’s competitors (even if they’re only in it for the money). Yes, MS may prevail, but we’ll fight them tooth and nail for every inch!
(And to the wintrolls – yes, I am biased against MS. Deal with it.)
See ya, grampa! 😉
Does it really matter? For all I care, Linux could be ready for just my desktop alone. The masses can shove it. Frankly, I don’t want Photoshop on Linux. I’ll wait a century for Gimp to mature, if in fact it isn’t. Anyone who can’t wait can use Windows or Mac. I don’t want proprietary non-open drivers on Linux. If the open source drivers get there next millennium, I’ll wait. Again those who are impatient have options.
I don’t want to be a slave to commercial vendors or be locked in by them. I’m fortunate I hardly have needs for their products, thanks to beautiful free and open source alternatives available. They are not rough, they do not have bells and whistles, but I’m proud of them.
I’m pleased with the freedom and power Linux affords me as well as the free and open source community. Frankly, that’s all that matters. The free and open source knowledge base is incomparable to any commercial alternative. Absolutely nothing can compete with community knowledge.
I hope I’m alive to see what becomes of Linux, GNU and free/open software in ten years. I also hope Photoshop would never be ported to Linux. And even if it is, I hope it is free and open on open source platforms. Or better still, I hope the GIMP becomes the norm. I hope their will be a free and open alternatives for every proprietary software on other platforms. I hope the free/open source knowledge base continues to expand exponentially.
Because frankly, Linux doesn’t need more market share it needs more knowledge base. And that remains the strength of Linux, GNU and the free/open source community.
P.S. Practically speaking, proprietary software will continue to exist and some of their contributions to Linux are valued. I know a lot of users who would be miserable without the Nvidia drivers.
Hopefully, this software vendors will continue to work with Linux, free and open source developers by providing documentations, hardware specification and contributions, both human and otherwise, to enable them develop open source implementations of their hardware. I’m all for healthy competition.
…both human and otherwise, to enable them develop open source implementations of their hardware. I’m all for healthy competition.
That should read;
…both human and otherwise, to enable them develop open source implementations of their hardware drivers. I’m all for healthy competition.
While I do think that Linux has made tremendous strides in the last few years…I tend to think that Linus Torvalds may have the right of it in this case.
I admire the potential of the OS, however I personally do not think that it is ready for most average users. Many issues need to be resolved before Linux becomes common place on the home desktop (hardware support, a common file package/installation system that everybody can agree on, cross platform compatability for software just for starters)
These things will come with time, though. We all just have to be patient, and keep working
if it was simple to just download a new software and double click install it like in ms windows(even in win95 that was avaible) or mac osx, i guess linux would have at least 3-4times the user she has now.
Works in FreeBSD. Heck, just pass pkg_add a link to the software you want to install and it’ll take care of the downloading as well.
I wonder why you feel this is a concern, even though [double]-click based install has been available for packages on many GNU/Linux distros for years.
> The fact of the matter, if you run Windows XP on a name brand machine, update when required, run an anti-virus and ensure your software running on top of the OS is updated regularly, the so-called “issues” aren’t seen.
You forget to mention the M$ upgrade tax. I assume you were talking about the corporate desktop, as in the previous paragraph.
> That is what you’re up against. You need to convince not only that your solution is better but that they can continue on as they were and be even more productive given the same resources at their disposal
Cost effectiveness
Security
Shiny icons
Open standards and interoperability
No vendor lock-in
…
And most of all – not relying on a company with unethical business practices.
Note that this is not a concern for *most* home users (what’s the correct term?) who will just care about the apps.
> No one has yet done a bloody thing to address the shortage of applications for Linux. Where is IBM?
Right now they seem to be more interested in the kernel proper – stuff like NUMA, JFS, read-copy-update, asynch IO and a lot more.
Although they did invest some $$ in Novell very recently.
Sun came out with their ummm ‘Java’ desktop. I’d like to see how they fare, as well as Novell / Ximian / Suse and RH.
Note: I do not claim to be an authority
In 5 to 10 years … if they can make it, everyone will probably be using something else by then
> No one has yet done a bloody thing to address the shortage of applications for Linux. Where is IBM?
Preparing for an all out assault on SCOX?
One point I forgot to mention – the IBM internal memo that surfaced a week ago about moving to Linux desktops in some timeframe. Their official reponse was different though.
I have to say that I’m mildly surprised that Big Blue has left the path of the Dark Side. Funny how things change.
The link points to the following comment by Linus –
“I mean it’s going to take, literally five to 10 years before “normal users” start seeing Linux desktop, but in the technical space it’s doing pretty well, especially in companies that can support it already.”
IMO, this does not imply that Linux on the desktop will be ready in 5-10 years. I believe Linus meant that in 5-10 years Linux on the desktop will be more visible to normal – non-technical – users. I certainly do not see any comment by Linus that Linux will be competetive in 5-10 years. That is a misrepresentation of what he said in the interview.
> No one has yet done a bloody thing to address the
> shortage of applications for Linux. Where is IBM?
Preparing for an all out assault on SCOX?
All IBM has to say is “boo” and the company will fall over. IBM tends to have a personality like me, extend the pain for SCO for as long as possible the crush them.
One point I forgot to mention – the IBM internal memo that surfaced a week ago about moving to Linux desktops in some timeframe. Their official reponse was different though.
I have to say that I’m mildly surprised that Big Blue has left the path of the Dark Side. Funny how things change.
And yet their partyline is “IBM recommends Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional”, hmm, nice to see that they’ve “left the path of the Dark Side”.
Everything IBM does is nothing but market rhetoric, there is no “walking” to back up the “talking” they do.
If they were serious, this what they would do:
Setup a website called, “The march towards the penguin” which documents the progress of their move from Windows to Linux and the problems they had to over come. In a development part of the website, they cover the porting of win32 applications accross to Linux, and in the case of IBM, they use Lotus Smart Suite and Lotus Notes. This would be a great reference for any company considering porting their win32 applications to Linux.
Practical steps must be taken not this rhetoric we see today. Another good move would have been to buy Corel and opensource the whole product line up, minus parts that are not developed by Corel. Let then the Linux community to develop wine around the Corel products so that they can run on Linux with minimum problems.
These are two things that could have been done, and they haven’t mearly re-enforcing the notion that IBM is just yet another Windows driven company with the inability to actually step out of line and come up with something unique and different. Atleast with with SUN you know what you get, you get a 100% UNIX company, you know exactly why they use Linux; because it UNIX like thus allowing them utilise their current programmers. With IBM, you never know where they stand. They say one thing and do a completely different thing.
Well said and I fully agree, I have been saying Linux is not anywhere near the desktop since 99 and it looks like a big “I told you so” is in order.
Desktop Linux is slow and is lacking backwards compatibility and this will not change. In 5 or 10 years it may be able to compete with current desktops but where the rest of the market be then?
and thus since 1999. My first linux distro was Slackware which one I used on my old PII machine. I swapped this distro with Mandrake 8.2, 9.0, 9.1, 9.2d/l.edition (last one I hate most because it is one of the buggiest mdk release). I also tried SuSE 8.2 and it crashed too frequently because of its buggy APIC kernel support on my single cpu system… Now I am back to Slackware Linux 9.1 and like it more than ever. I have to admit that I’ve also paid $101 for WXPHome and am tired of easy installs and hard recovery. WXP could be completely crashed by using not the right driver and software for your capture:( then it asks for install cd to repair its damaged files:( No such problems with linux and v4l+bt878 dirver.
I am absolutely happy with my system working and not going to get down in no reason.
Here is my config now:
Machine:
Athlon XP 1700+ @2400+
Spire WhisperRock IV
Via KT400 GA-7VAX
256MB DDR @333Mhz
OS:
Linux
Distro: Slackware 9.1
Kernel: 2.6.0 STABLE (patched with Supermount)
GUI: KDE 3.1.4
Freetype 2.1.5 (with #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER */, sorry Apple)
Fonts: M$ Arial, Comic, Courier New, Tahoma, Times New Roman, Verdana & Mac Chickago
KDE Style: ThinKeramik
GTK Style: ThinGeramik
KDE Colour Scheme: SuSE 8.2
KDE Titlebar Style: SuSE 8.2
KDE Wallpaper: SuSE green
X11 Icons: Crystal SVG 1.0
Greetz!
One thing that makes me curious… why is it, that I have at least 5 XP installs just at home and none has ever crashed? Neither does w2k?
Let me guess…. you’re playing around with something you shouldn’t be playing around with?
I’ve also tried Mandrake 8.1… quite nice really except from the fact that it performed VERY slowly compared to windows… sad but true.
Only BSD comes in mind these days when I wanna compare speed with WXP ….
no. just installed wdm drivers for my pv-bt878 w/fm and borgTV ruined my system… also DScaler (the tv sw that was used to buid TVTime for linux too) installs in ring0 its own driver and if your native wdm driver is not set with some specific third party software in compatibility mode DScaler will crash your system in some cases and in other cases may damage some files that are in use and you need the setup cd again!
once again my $0.02 – for me Slackware is the best;)
I am so unahppy that I never used FreeBSD but I hope to try it soon!
Regards!