Microsoft launched on Tuesday a program to create versions of Windows and its other programs in little spoken languages such as Amharic, Catalan, Gujarati and Welsh to spread its software to all corners of the globe. The Local Language Program aims to double the 40 languages now available on Microsoft’s personal computer software with help from local governments.
Microsoft Aims to Double Windows Language Versions
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It’s written in this article:
“… said local governments and academic institutions would be involved …”
So governments translate the software and pay for it again later? Very interesting…
That is a good idea! Why not! Perhaps other people around the world would like to learn how to use Windows.
If the local gov and academics help Microsoft, what will they get in return? Free licenses?
While I think it’s good that Microsoft care enough to tranlate windows to those languages I question if it wouldn’t be bette for them (the gov etc.) to help out translating linux. But my guess is that no one has ever asked.
Maybe the difference is in the money customers can offer. For example, for Catalan, which is spoken in the north-estern part of Spain ( Catalunya, around Barcelona ), there is a -relatively- big potential market for real customers. Maybe it’s not the case in other areas. Local governments of poor countries will have to subsidize Microsoft, whereas Microsoft will pay the cost of porting its system to rich regions.
Really unfair !
( … but I may be wrong in my explanations )
Here’s the MS/Welsh press release from a few months back. It explains how the programme works.
http://www.microsoft.com/uk/press/content/presscentre/releases/2004…
Scroll down half way, and you’ll see why Welsh is such a hard language to learn
It’d be nice if Microsoft produced their interfaces (and not just their spelling checkers) in British English as well, but I doubt that’ll happen for a long time
They get AVAILABILITY!!!!
Since Linux today is not an option on desktop for the big majority of users and many people in these minorities have severe problems with english/alternative languages they will now have the option to use a computer anyway.
Translating Linux (the kernel?) would hardly help much… translating gnome, KDE or all the other 1 billion apps cover a lot more lines (as in apps which is not Linux). I can’t see how undertaking a bigger effort for something less usable (for the ordinary Desktop user at) at this stage would mean anything good for them.
Great initative by Microsoft despite all the evil initatives they normally do…
Since Linux today is not an option on desktop for the big majority of users and many people in these minorities have severe problems with english/alternative languages they will now have the option to use a computer anyway.
Linux is actually an option especially if it’s your first system and especially if you don’t have a lot of cash. Just take a look at what’s happening in asia. Switching from Windows to Linux might be a tricky thing for some people. But starting with linux isn’t that hard. You underestimate people’s intelligence.
Translating Linux (the kernel?) would hardly help much… translating gnome, KDE or all the other 1 billion apps cover a lot more lines (as in apps which is not Linux).
Stop it with that old tired line. You know that I was talking about linux distributions, don’t be silly.
Anyway, there’s no need to translate every single app for linux. Do you think Microsoft plan to translate every Windows-app available?
Take a look at KDE internationalization and you’ll see that KDE supports/plan to support a lot of languages.
http://i18n.kde.org/stats/gui/KDE_3_2_BRANCH/index.php
Sheesh, it’s just an article on Windows localization and someone still has to mention free software?
It’s about people who Microsoft hasn’t cared about. Such people usually end up with linux because OpenSource doesn’t have to see profit to invest(time) in a market. Perhaps they are trying to prevent the thing that is happening in asia from happening in other countries as well.
I think they should try to clean up their act on those languages they do support now. Localizing Microsoft products is a big pain in the ass. Their localization software (locstudio, helium) is just horrible to work with and their localization process is way too bureaucratic and stiff to be any kind of effective. Which, I suspect, is what you can expect from large corporation bent on world domination.
govs pay microsoft for localized versions,
thats the mainline here.
some will say, “but microsoft is only making agreements with them, no money involved”
well and who pays those personal for their time? Govs offcourse, people that support those govs with their taxes.
secondly microsoft gets back some contracts by shipping those govs the localized versions.
So we have here microsfot trying to compete (and remove any competition), where opensource had one off his main strengths, the localization effort.
I cant imagine how many govs will now not have the excuse to change back to windows since their language is already supported.
It’s about people who Microsoft hasn’t cared about. Such people usually end up with linux because OpenSource doesn’t have to see profit to invest(time) in a market. Perhaps they are trying to prevent the thing that is happening in asia from happening in other countries as well.
Knockin’ them for being careless is one thing, but the original complaint was that the governments and institutions involved won’t be compensated for their work. And not only is it irrelevant and not stated in the article, it’s simply a ridiculous assumption. Why [i]wouldn’t[/] they pay them back?
What I simply don’t *get* is why, with Windows and apparently Linux too, you have to *port* software to a different language! I mean, come *on*… when a security flaw is detected, you don’t even know if it affects your specific language version, and if it does, you have to wait a couple of weeks longer till the fix is available…
Scroll back on the time line. Windows 95 has not yet made its appearance, and there’s an OS that already has not only preemptive multitasking, long filenames and apps opening on double-clicking a document, but also another stunning feature: locales! Same executable for all users, locale-specific stuff handled by a library and texts stored away in a standard-format text file. You could even change the language of your desktop and all applications with a single switch in the system preferences.
Everybody could write up a localization, even without having access to the program executable (or the consent of the manufacturer, for that matter, which resulted in some rather funny locale files for local dialects… 😉 ).
Just another concept brought to you by (you guessed it) AmigaOS, just to be forgotten again by the computing world at large.
but the original complaint was that the governments and institutions
involved won’t be compensated for their work
Did you notice the questionmarks? <- that’s what they look like.
They mean that I asked a question out into the open air perhaps with some hope that someone would be able to answer my question because it’s….
not stated in the article
And as for irrelevant. To me it isn’t. Because I have seen far to many companies taking advantage of people like this.
The difference between the gov doing translations using taxmoney for Microsoft versus KDE/Gnome is that the latter will be released for free giving the taxpayers value for the money.
Now, I didn’t say that this is the case. Perhaps MS will give them a million bucks for the job. But I asked the question because I’m worried about such things, it has to do with democracy. To me, there’s something fishy about going to the gov for help with these things. But I wanted to make sure before I started bashing MS about it. I’m not a braindead troll even though I haven’t slept for 27 hours.
I think both Microsoft and KDE are using locale kits, and updates are usually transparent on both systems. They don’t need to make different patches for each language version. I think Microsoft has to test the patch with each version before they release it though, which is a good thing IMO if you have the resources to do so.
Microsoft doesn’t offer a “switch language feature” simply because they want/need more control over their distributions.
I have never switched language in KDE so I don’t know if it does it the Amiga-way. But there’s a preference for KBabel in KControl. It might need a restart though, I don’t know. But you don’t switch languages that often anyway.
“*… when a security flaw is detected, you don’t even know if it affects your specific language version, and if it does, you have to wait a couple of weeks longer till the fix is available…”
…well, I don’t think this is true right now. 3/4 years ago yes, you had to wait for patches to be published for your particular languate, but now patches are out for every languange supported by the OS (I’m talking about Windows) at the very same time.
“Microsoft doesn’t offer a “switch language feature” simply because they want/need more control over their distributions.”
Rain, at least for Corporate Customers, Microsoft provides you with a tool for the “switch language feature” you talk about.
Say you want to install Windows 2000. You install it in English (USA) first and, after that, you apply “language packs” from other CDs. You can change your current language from Control Panel (don’t remember what is the applet for this…) and you only need to logoff/logon. Same feature is available for Office since 2K version.
This is not like “Regional Settings” applet where you change only some parameters like current, keyboard, etc; this completely translates your menus, dialogues and icons.
I saw it for Windows 2000 but I must say translation was poor for languages like French, German or Spanish and menus used to be mixed up.
David
All this whining about Microsoft being a big bad bully and noone bothered to notice that this post insinuates that not many people speak these languages. Au contraire!
There are 20 million speakers of Amharic, 45 million speakers of Gujarati, 10 million speakers of Catalan, and around 500,000 speakers of Welsh.
Remember, there are many many many people in this world that still don’t speak the so-called majority languages.
David: OK, I didn’t know that. That’s good I guess. However, as you said many of the translations are poor. I remember getting some very confusing and contradicting messages in the Swedish translation of Outlook Express.
I can’t speak for other systems as I only use OSs in English. I grew up with computers “speaking” English so it just feels wierd to use the Swedish translations.
And as for irrelevant. To me it isn’t. Because I have seen far to many companies taking advantage of people like this.
The difference between the gov doing translations using taxmoney for Microsoft versus KDE/Gnome is that the latter will be released for free giving the taxpayers value for the money.
Now, I didn’t say that this is the case. Perhaps MS will give them a million bucks for the job. But I asked the question because I’m worried about such things, it has to do with democracy. To me, there’s something fishy about going to the gov for help with these things. But I wanted to make sure before I started bashing MS about it. I’m not a braindead troll even though I haven’t slept for 27 hours.
Heh, haven’t slept much here either. Anyways..I was directing more towards Alain’s statement (first post), which appeared to be more accusatory. I apologize for not noticing the question marks.
Yes, I agree, there’s valid reasons for being suspicious about government involvement, but I’m used to seeing attacks made on the “idea” of “payment” in general. I don’t excuse either one, and it’s only because of the same reason as yours: democracy.
Microsoft sees that Linux comes in a plethora of languages (more than Windows and in more obscure languages). They also see how a local community can take linux and all the desktop software overlay and convert it into their language. You can’t do this kind of thing with Windows because you don’t have access to the source code for free.
This is not a profit driven motive by Microsoft, per se, it’s PR motivated. It’s a way to equalize a competitive feature from Linux. With $60 billion in the bank, Microsoft can spend a lot of money on marketing driven reactions such as this.
I pity those organizations that will help the Microsoft PR machine for free in creating a multi-lingual Windows. More than that I think that we all have an ethical reason to not support a monopoly. Don’t you?
You still have to buy a seperate version for each language you want to use, which is a real pain for multilingual families. Why can’t they make a single version which includes all language version.
Microsoft may not have supported these small languages apart from the threat of Linux. A lot of the speakers of these small languages (Welsh and Catalan) are very proud of it and would snap up a computing system in their own language more readily than a free one. Very clever.
A speaker of Catalan (take a part of French and a part of Spanish, mix well, and voila: Catalan) would jump on this fast – perhaps even despite any objection they may have to Microsoft overall.
Sure, that is but a small market share, but it is enough to make a difference if you take them all together. Oh, I’m sure the reason it never occured to MS to support British English is the simple fact that they speak english (albeit British, but it uses the same moniker none-the-less).
What do you exactly mean? Why would they choose a Catalan Windows instead of a Catalan KDE when they have objections to Microsoft?
> Linux too, you have to *port* software to a different language
I think it’s like that on windows, but under an Unix-like system you usually use something like gettext, which stores locale data in seperate files that can be translated without even seeing the source for the app.
Hi
”
Linux is actually an option especially if it’s your first system and especially if you don’t have a lot of cash. Just take a look at what’s happening in asia. Switching from Windows to Linux might be a tricky thing for some people. But starting with linux isn’t that hard. You underestimate people’s intelligence. ”
Thats exactly hitting the point. We have a whole lot of Linux systems in India and people who have gotten used to Linux first simply continue using it everywhere. Inertia and migration troubles work both ways
regards
Rahul
This is disgusting. Governmens subsidizing Microsoft development with the money of taxpayers. I am calling tons of people to mobilize opposition to this bullshit and I suggest that you do as well.
Spread the word, speak to local newspapers, let’s get moving!
what the hell? Who wrote that “little spoken languages” on the article heading?? Just because its not english, than its little? Severe ignorance. I suppose japanese, french and german are little spoken languages too? the number of people who speak gujarati is at least a third of these languages. I wish people would think before they open their mouths.
> They don’t need to make different patches for each
> language version. I think Microsoft has to test the
> patch with each version before they release it though,
> which is a good thing IMO if you have the resources to
> do so.
I remember at least *one* security issue that appeared in Office 2000 German *only*.
> Microsoft doesn’t offer a “switch language feature”
> simply because they want/need more control over their
> distributions.
Now, that I don’t get either. What kind of control would *they* want over the language that *I* use?
> I have never switched language in KDE so I don’t know if
> it does it the Amiga-way.
Nope.
The functionality might be there, but just like everything in Linux it’s well hidden. In AmigaOS, you had *all* preferencers in SYS:Prefs, and the one called “Locale” allowed you (gasp!) to switch locales, just like the one called “ScreenMode” allowed you to switch screen resolution and color depth. (Hint to the Linux desktop teams: Get this right, finally!)
> But there’s a preference for KBabel in KControl. It might
> need a restart though, I don’t know. But you don’t switch
> languages that often anyway.
That’s easy to say for you who admits to use English only. I usually prefer to use a German desktop, but sometimes I want to switch to the “original” English (e.g. because the German locale for a software sucks so completely that I can’t make sense of it). Or how about the people actually *working* on localizations? I have written an Amiga locale once (ContactManager), and it was really helpful to switch back and forth between the original and my translation to check out things…
When DirectoryOpus was released for Windows, I volunteered to write the German locale, thinking it would be just as easy as for AmigaOS. Nah, I would have had to buy a > 100$ special software and sign an NDA because they couldn’t give me the texts without disclosing their source code as well.
If I go to the store to buy a software in Germany, I usually pay a *significant* premium for the German locale, sometimes as much as 200% the price a US citicen would be charged for the English version – and don’t tell me it’s all taxes.
> But you don’t switch languages that often anyway.
Rather frequently I have to explain somebody else – by phone or ICQ – how to find a certain obscure option, usually by “talking” them through the menu hierarchy. That can be a severe pain if the person on the other end uses a different locale. I have this at the office (us developers using English Windows / Office, with our customers usually using English Windows with a German Office which can become *very* confusing), and at home (where I am using a German Windows, and a Swedish friend of mine using an English one).
Switching locales on the fly is not an option but a requirement for a modern OS – at least in my book. (Another bullet point on the list why I keep claiming that both Windows *and* Linux suck completely.)
In the case of the Welsh, that doesn’t wash… Walse has a devolved assembly, but central power is still mainly with central UK government. I doubt Blair is paying for it…
>500,000 speakers of Welsh.
How many of those are monoglot? Not too many. Most are bilingual. There are more Breton speakers than Welsh, but for political reasons the Breton are hidden away by the French regime.
I worked in Wales for a while, knew quite a few Welsh speakers – even worked in a Welsh speaking TV station’s IT department. Statistically there is very little chance you’ll find more than a handful of solely Welsh speaking people in Wales, bar the elderly and the young, pre school age children of Welsh speakers.
Mind, this may not be true for Patagonia, so I guess the sheep hearders there may benefit 😉