In a decision that could affect consumers, competitors and PC makers, the European Commission requires Microsoft to unbundle Media Player from Windows and pay a $613 million fine.
EU Slaps Record Fine on Microsoft
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
<Quote>We were finally ready
to break up Microsoft then Bush had to come in.<Endquote>
IIRC, was it not the appelate court that said no to that, because of Judge Jackson’s li’l judicial no-no.
“1) Real/Apple have not been pushed out of business, so it isn’t like Netscape. “
Well, Apple is not likely to be pushed out of business. How soon we forget that Microsoft invests in Apple. The last time Apple was in a bind, 1997, Microsoft bailed them out by investing $150 Million. In exchange Microsoft and Apple have licensing agreements, and license each others API’s and whatnot. Knowing that I would conclude that Apple is not in danger of going out of business, as they have a cash flow stream from Microsoft for licensing.
“That’s unfair. End of story.
Any OS maker should be FREE to include whatever the hell software they want with their product. It is THEIR product and having EU interfering as to what software an OS should bundle is just RIDICULOUS.
If MS is to unbudle WMP, EU should also order Apple and all Linux distos to do the same for their media players.”
I agree, SuSE should be ordered to remove the SuSe Branded media player at once. You know, the SuSe Media player that reads SuSe Media formats. Mandrake should immediately be forced to remove the Mandrake Branded Media Player. You know the one that reads Mandrake Media formats. Shall I continue?
Sorry Eugenia, when you control such a significant part of the market, you have to play by special rules. MS has made their own bed. They have forced what ever they want upon us. They change the rules as they see fit whenever they need to force something new upon us or new competition arrives. My wife runs 2k. She agreed to a EULA. Then, low and behold a security hole opens up. Can she get the patch without agreeing to yet another EULA with ever broadening terms? Not a freaking chance.
It’s about choices Eugenia. MS is not about choices. MS is about control. You will use the software they ALLOW you to use in the manner that they ALLOW you to use it. If they need a new EULA, they just release a CRITICAL security fix and FORCE you to agree to the new EULA to fix thier faulty software that you purchased under a different license. Your options are what? Skip the service pack?
This is not really about unbundling a stupid media player. This is about FORCING users to bend to their will. It’s about time a court/commision had enough balls to tell MS to play like a member of society. You want to be the king of all computer software? Then earn that title!
The EU is sending a message. You can be the king, if the people choose you. However, you cannot be king if the only votes you get are from those that have their nuts in your grip!
The real power of the EU’s ruling is opening interoperability data. For once, let MS play on a level field. Give them just 5 years with open formats/protocols. Surely the superior MS developement cycle and their astounding innovation with reign supreme. Or, are you worried that MS will crumble under the real weight of competition?
I applaud not the Media Player decision, but the opening of the data formats. If MS can stand the heat with it’s fully documented formats known then the deserve the market share they have.
U.S. politicos fire at EU’s Microsoft ruling
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5178914.html?tag=zdfd.newsfeed
Some of you seem to have completely missed the point of this whole case. Linux distros bundling media players has nothing to do with this.
1. Microsoft have been defined as a near monopoly for the *DESKTOP OS MARKET*, and thus are subject to different rules. Like it or hate it, that’s the way it is. Most western countries have similar rules for dealing with monopolies, the EU is not alone.
2. As a monopoly, you cannot use your position in one market to leverage unfair advantage in another market (i.e. the streaming media market).
3. Microsoft force users to have Windows Media Player. It comes bundled. They do not bundle other players.
4. When a new site is deciding what format to use, what are they going to choose? The one that people have to go and download a separate player for? Or the one consumers already have, built in? They’re going to make it easy for the consumer. No mucking around with downloading and installing.
5. Real, Quicktime and others CANNOT compete on this level. Sure, they may be able to pay Dell or HP money and create a deal to get theirs also bundled (note: they MAY be able to do this), but nothing is guaranteed. Microsoft can just put theirs in there, and EVERY new Windows box has it, period. The OEM cannot remove it and replace it, even if they want to.
This is clear abuse of market power.
Now regarding Linux, it is a completely different scenario.
1. Most distros bundle a number of players.
2. You can uninstall these easily.
3. The distros don’t own these players themselves, or make money from them.
4. None of the distros are in the streaming media market, so bundling these players does not give them a competitive advantage in another market.
Even if Redhat WERE a Monopoly, bundling a media player is not abusing their market position, since Redhat have no business in the streaming media market, and they’re not using their monopoly to gain advantage in another, separate market. The only advantage this would have for redhat is making it easier for their consumers to play media without having to bother downloading and installing another. If you really think this was MS’s only reason for bundling WMP, you need to step outside the square and take a look around.
Please realise, this is about a monopoly using its position in one market to gain in another. It is not just about bundling media players.
“Sun applauds the European Commission’s decision in the Microsoft case – this important, precedent-setting decision comes after more than four years of an exhaustive investigation with detailed and comprehensive submissions from both industry vendors and consumer groups, and a hearing held late last year in Brussels. This decision is important for consumers not only in Europe, but also for increased innovation and competition worldwide.
“The Commission found that Microsoft has abused its dominant position in desktop operating systems to create an unlawful advantage for itself in the work group server market. In particular the Commission found that Microsoft has not been competing on the merits, but instead used interoperability between its desktops and servers to override other factors of server performance offered by its competitors.
“By requiring Microsoft to make disclosures that will allow other servers to comparably interoperate with Microsoft desktops and servers, the Commission’s decision seeks to create a level playing field in the work group server market place, enabling competitors to deliver work group servers that can fully interoperate and therefore compete on the merits. This is enormously significant for consumers and for the industry. For the first time in many years, IT managers will be able to choose from a variety of work group servers, confident that they will interoperate with Microsoft desktops. Because the decision is forward looking and covers future product releases, consumers can be confident that other work group server suppliers will be able to meet their needs even as Microsoft introduces new products.
“This decision is an important precedent for defining the principles of open competition not just for today, but for the future of a vibrant and vital worldwide IT industry. We look forward to participating in an exciting period of innovation that will deliver the tangible consumer benefits that derive from competition on the merits.” — Lee Patch, vice president, legal affairs, Sun Microsystems.
Source: http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/media/features/eu_statement.html
Good link. I guess the appeal will drag out for years, but it might be time for retaliation.
I think it is fine for an operating system to include apps for basic computing functions (e-mail, browser, multi-media player, etc.). But these should be installation options, as they are with Linux. Bundling itself isn’t the problem; the problem is the lack of choice and illegal (IMO) agreements with computer manufacturers.
Isn’t RealPlayer spyware? If so, who in the heck would want that on their computer anyway?
At least two of the examples, RealPlayer and Netscape Navigator, were free downloads. I’m a big fan of freeware, but offering your products at no charge makes it difficult to blame Microsoft for lack of sales and revenue, no?
First of all, the European Commission want Microsoft to pay 497,2 Million Euros, which in my opinion is is just a small fraction of what it could have been legally.
Secondly, Microsoft has to openly document the server interfaces within 120 days. That is *not* the API or the source code or whatever, it’s just the interfaces between client and server! Got it?
Thirdly, Microsoft is *not* forced to eliminate the Windows Media Player from Windows, but the European Commission want to give customers a choice, so they want Microsoft to have two versions of Windows, one with and one without the WMP.
This is all about giving the customers a choice back that Microsoft have taken from them, but it’s *not* a ban of all versions of Windows with included WMP!
Please read those decisions before you discuss them!
Oh, and to all those “Hey, but Apple have QickTime, and Linux has whatever”:
Neither Apple nor Linux have a market share of over 90%.
Both the QuickTime Player and every player for Linux can be simply deleted, but Microsoft chose to entangle the WMP into Windows so deeply like the Internet Explorer that they cannot be deleted. Why? Because they want to use Windows to replace a lot of well-designed media formats with WMV and WMA!
And finally, neither Apple nor Linux are installed on most PCs through the force of OEM licences, Windows is.
Wake *up* people!
And finally let’s talk about unfair:
http://murray.senate.gov/news.cfm?id=219442
“The EU’s proposed actions against Microsoft amount to a hostile act with severe consequences for the global economy.”
Oh, the EU is hostile against Microsoft? Tell that to all the firms that got killed by Microsoft!
“I am deeply troubled by two things in particular. First, both Microsoft’s creative authority and the ability of consumers to reap the benefits of new technological innovation will be curtailed.”
Creativity and innovation in the same sentence with Microsoft? That must be some kind of oxymoron!
“Second, the EU has now directly attacked the authority of the United States government and our economy in general.”
Wait a second! By saying that this is a direct attack on the authority of the US government it is implied that:
a) Microsoft is part of the US government
b) the European Union have no authority to decide for themselves!
Wake up US polititians, Europe is *not* part of the US!
“This ruling is yet another example of the EU assaulting a successful American industry and policies that support our economic growth. While I recognize the Administration’s efforts to support a settlement, our government must now engage the EU immediately and seek a negotiated settlement to the Microsoft case.”
Uh, is it an accident that she uses military jargon? It almost sounds as if she wants the US to invade the EU to settle this in the interest, not of the people, but of the US. Now let’s talk about assaulting…
“American jobs and economic interests are threatened by the actions of the EU.”
Wait a minute! Isn’t it the current us government that is really weakening the US economy and doing nothing against unemployment?
Great, now they have a scapegoate to get Bush reelected!
And as for Microsoft, they don’t give a f*ck about economics other than their own.
Wake *up* people! This is just another proof that high US polititions are on Microsoft’s loan list! If this doesn’t convince you that Microsoft has to be confined one way or the other, I don’t know what will!
As I read the statement of Patty Murray, the american senator, I hope US don’t declare war to Europe on this matter.
THIS IS A JOKE!
BTW… are americans really frustrated by europeans going right?
Daniël Mantione:
1) The EU has found, that use of WMP is rapidly accelerating since the bundling into Windows, and that other mediaplayers are in decline. They have not yet published details, but you can safely assume they will.
The EC has not found that Microsoft in bundling WMP into Windows, WMP market had increased. Instead, they speculated in that regards. Since NetShow have been integrated into Windows, WMP have been growing from strenghts to strengths in terms of features and usefulness. Perhaps, that is what that caused WMP increase in marketshare?
Or perhaps it is their formats, which have been gathering mindshare over the past few years because of its (alleged) superiority over Real’s formats (esp. in video streaming, I heard)? Perhaps it is because Real couldn’t get Helix out of the door fast enough to prevent market share from slipping to Microsoft? Nooooo…. perish the thought.
But perhaps users actually use WMP because it is superior to its competitors? I personally use WinAMP, but I would much rather cut of my fingers one by one than to be forced to use RealONE and/or Quicktime/iTunes as my main player. Yeah, they’re nice and all, but heck, they are many times inferior to WMP, so much so I avoid using them. I have never liked using Quicktime, and while I kinda like RealONE’s new interface, I couldn’t stomach its instability (and the annoying Message Center).
Perhaps people stop downloading RealONE and Quicktime because they are inferior and have no reason to download them?
Whatever it is, you said it, EC didn’t wait to find out what is the cause of WMP’s rise – was it solely because of Windows monopoly or was it because of other reasons. Instead, they rushed a fine and force Microsoft to do something technically unfounded (based on the fact that Microsoft has an Embedded version of Windows XP).
You are answering only to part of the question. You get an incomplete reply back. System resources include hard drive space.
Then I must wonder, why are you using Windows? Windows uses a lot of hard disk space for stuff most people wouldn’t use – mostly for backward compatiblity. If you think that the amount of junk Microsoft puts on your hard disk is too much – don’t use Windows! If you don’t use Windows already – why the heck are you complaining? Delete every part of WMP and you save a couple dozen of megabytes. Of course, you save even more because now you can install a whole lot of media software (i.e. Grokster, Premier, etc.)
I think a lot of people are really missing a big point here.
Whether you can remove the player or not isn’t the point, whether linux distros ship multiple players or not isn’t the point.
THE point is that if MS stops bundling wmp, the operating system becomes less capable.
Before you start firing up the flamethrowers, let me explain.
Let’s say that windows is a luxery sedan, if you had your choice between the same model of car but one had power windows you’d probably pick the one with power windows. (for sake of argument we’ll say that the hand cranks still work in the power operated unit, just because it’s there doesn’t mean you have to use it). Linux on the other hand is a kit car, it comes with several different styles of hand cranks and three or four different power openers, you have your choice of which to install. Now let’s say that the EU tells MS that they can’t put power window openers in their cars anymore because it hurts competition of other window openers.. It’d be pretty silly for the EU to do this to FORD/DODGE/GM/TOYOTA/ETC.. So now instead of having MS selling a car that has power windows, you have a car without power windows that you have to go out and get a set for, whereas the linux kit car still comes with several types. This diminishes MS’s capability to be competative as why would I go buy a copy of windows or a machine with it loaded if I have to go do extra work to get some of the same functionallity other systems provide?
That is where the argument about linux distros and apple bundling a player comes in. It makes windows a less attractive choice when it comes down to capabilities, and is every other product so bad that they need to hobble MS to succeed? If they are, then they aren’t worth the effort to begin with.
Surprised you said this Eugenia.
“That’s unfair. End of story.
…
If MS is to unbudle WMP, EU should also order Apple and all Linux distos to do the same for their media players.”
It’s punishment to fit the lack of cooperation of MS to previous actions agin them over the years. Microsoft raised prices or even threatening to withdraw OEM rights of companies that wanted to put other media players on the boxes they shipped; this puts them in the same boat as everyone else when it comes to OEMs. Remember this action isn’t about Joe Consumer directly but about the companies that have to deal with MS that have to deal with us. Companies love being able to give their customers choice and with MS they were never allowed to.
Same way they refuse to let other companies interconnect.
C’mon, it’s not hard. Using a monopoly to squash competition is illegal. Of course the MS patsies will be happy because MS will no doubt keep this held up in court so long that Real will be gone at least and there won’t be any competitors in that space left. (Quicktime will hang around as long as Apple does though).
Plus, a linux distro is in no way, shape or form the same as Windows. A Linux distro has a bunch of programs put together; you can choose not to install them or uninstall after with no ill effect. The software producer, the hardware vendor can choose which packages they want to install on their systems. And that means you the end consumer gets choice.
XP doesn’t let you choose to install or even truly uninstall certain parts of it, their lame response to the equally lame US final action being the “hide” functionality that SP1 added where the links get removed. Big deal.
This isn’t rocket science people.
That is way overboard and would commercially damage MS. Personally I agree that would have been an outcome I would have been more satisfied with, but forcing them unbundle achieves what they set out to do : open the market to choice for OEMs and hence consumers.
It’s not a stupid order, but one that punishes the action, and the historical abuse, without removing their IP and commercial info.
“IMHO, if EU is really so afraid of WMP becoming a “monopoly of its own right” like IE has, then they should have ordered MS to open up the SPECS of the media format not to give STUPID orders like “don’t bundle WMP”. Opening up the specs would have helped more alternative OSes instead of EU showing such a stupid face.”
Well, actually I hate realplayer. It’s so damned commercial that I do not want to install it at all. However, I also know that Real has no option that to fill their player full with commercial crap; it’s the only way to make money for them. This is no problem for Microsoft, the price of WMP is included in the OS, and the player can be free of any commercial shit.
Anyway, *if* people would use WMP solely because people like it better, it’s technical advantage, etc., the EU would not have done a secure investigation, since the EU has concluded WMP market share rose due to bundling. At this time there is no reason to believe the investigation was not done correctly. We’ll read the report as soon as it becomes available.
Then I must wonder, why are you using Windows?
I use 98lite to get choice back. I like 98lite, but I hate M$ that I need to buy an extra piece of software to be able to make choices myself. Windows is already not my primary OS.
http://www.europa.eu.int/rapid/start/cgi/guesten.ksh?p_action.gettx…
“That’s unfair. End of story.”
Unfair? No, I’ll tell you what’s unfair. The software company with the overwhelming majority of marketshare, charging the hightest price for it’s product, and all the OEMs and software companies groveling before it while we the consumer get overcharged for an insecure and buggy OS. We get squeezed into using IE, squeezed into using WMP, squeezed into using MS Office, and still you say unfair. They repeatedly violate anti-trust laws, outright steal technology from other companies, and you say unfair.
And if the day should ever come when MS is broken into pieces and sold off, and the software market becomes a truly competitive place, then we the consumer will finally be redeemed. This is not even going to put a dent in MS. This amounts to little more than a parking ticket. Not going to decrease their iron grip on the desktop, and not going to to inhibit their ability to compete. So what’s your problem?
Clearly you don’t know what unfair is.
M.i.k.e.
Do you think the people will ever wake up to the real intentions of ms?
Ms being discriminated against? What a bloody joke. My heart bleeds for them.
Now I want to see this judgement fulfilled, completely this time, not farted about for months if not years and bugger all gets done. Then I will believe that someone finally means to end this charade of any company having way over 90% of any bloody market.
I personally use WinAMP, but I would much rather cut of my fingers one by one than to be forced to use RealONE and/or Quicktime/iTunes as my main player. Yeah, they’re nice and all, but heck, they are many times inferior to WMP, so much so I avoid using them. I have never liked using Quicktime, and while I kinda like RealONE’s new interface, I couldn’t stomach its instability (and the annoying Message Center).
Perhaps people stop downloading RealONE and Quicktime because they are inferior and have no reason to download them?
Haha… Same thing here. I use Winamp but I wouldn’t touch Real software with a 10-foot pole. I almost prefer to be drowned in cow manure rather than using this crapware.
Personally, I don’t understand it. Nobody ever forced us to use Microsoft software. We made the choice. Furthermore, they are not offering a simple operating system: they are offering us a bundle. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. In a free market, you vote with your money. People are yelling “WE WANT CHOICE!” yet they don’t make any. Yes, they’ll simply choose the first one they see. Hypocrites…
The only thing I find good in the judgement is the ruling that is forcing Microsoft to produce documentation for interoperability with their product… And again, there’s something I don’t like: their competitors don’t have to do the same thing. It automatically gives an handicap to Microsoft and a serious advantage to the competition. Furthermore, they will have to compete against free solutions. It’s a bit difficult to add value when the competition can automatically copy them.
There was plenty of reasons for fining Microsoft. I don’t believe the EC choose the right one.
:Personally, I don’t understand it. Nobody ever forced us to use Microsoft software. We made the choice. Furthermore, they are not offering a simple operating system: they are offering us a bundle. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. In a free market, you vote with your money. People are yelling “WE WANT CHOICE!” yet they don’t make any. Yes, they’ll simply choose the first one they see. Hypocrites…
The problem MS had standardized the industry. Employers wants resumes in Word format (what about the people that can’t). If MS gets its way most media files will be only for Media Player and MS can not port Media Player to competating OSs. Look either the goverment has to standardize the computer industry and create open goverment owned standards for information like how NTSC is standard for broadcast or you need MS has to stop being a monopoly.
Settled then bust the monopoly. Simple really when you think about it. Split the gorilla up. Don’t let it get so darn big in the first place.
Bullethead
I nominate you for the prize of biggest twat I have ever come across. You are saying that the other OS’s like MAC and Linux are crap, then you got nothing between the ears man.
That’s your affair, but spare this forum the waste of space of your responses please.
Your little piece wins you the prize as far as I can see. No wonder you chose a nickname like that – it figures.
Just remember Dewd that share price is funny money until cashed into real money. One day that share price will not be going up and up
I don’t know if someone already mentioned this, but…
To the extent that any of this interface information might be protected by intellectual
property in the European Economic Area6, Microsoft would be entitled to reasonable
remuneration. The disclosure order concerns the interface documentation only, and
not the Windows source code, as this is not necessary to achieve the development
of interoperable products.
So, if someone tries to interface to patented technology, they have to cough up… I read somewhere that the guys from Samba where worried, because they feel that they can be forced to pay! Comments?
“Isn’t RealPlayer spyware? If so, who in the heck would want that on their computer anyway?”
Well, spyware is determined by the fact if it reports what you are doing with it. Real did do that for a time and then stopped. Windows MP did the same thing as it reported back to Microsoft anything you listened to/watched with it. At the time it was said as well that they would continue to do so. They did stop it with a later patch, after the courts got involved with the dispute. Real also never installed a keylogger on your machine, however by default there is one from Microsoft. One of the first things I disable on a new build.
The problem MS had standardized the industry. Employers wants resumes in Word format (what about the people that can’t).
Not all. In fact, it’s recommended to send PDF files whenever you can as they look more professional.
If MS gets its way most media files will be only for Media Player and MS can not port Media Player to competating OSs.
Since when MS can’t port WMP to competing OSes? I’ve read on this very site that they were planning to develop some ports for MacOSX and Linux. It’s not tied to the OS like Internet Explorer is.
Look either the goverment has to standardize the computer industry and create open goverment owned standards for information like how NTSC is standard for broadcast or you need MS has to stop being a monopoly.
I don’t know for you but I prefer a government that doesn’t meddle in everything. In my opinion, government regulations should be created only when they’re necessary. The IT industry can probably solve the current issue by itself.
<rant type=”endless”>
Yes, governments need to do something against Microsoft but they’re simply not doing the proper actions right now. It’s like accusing a murder of theft. Secondly, some claims aren’t true. Yes, they might not give a chance to the competition, but it’s not like if there’s one either. For example, I don’t know any sane person that would choose RealONE over WMP. There’s probably not enough foul words in the English language to describe how bad it is. QuickTime is better but not as good as WMP. It’s not really stable (at least here) and it keeps bugging me for purchasing a “pro” version I really don’t care of.
The problem, as I see it, is that the competition isn’t organisated enough to fight against Microsoft. They all prefer to fight them individually instead of uniting together. They could tackle them but they don’t want to for some reason or another. They prefer to take the easy way.
Honestly, do you think that stripping Windows XP of all its middlewares will help the cause of the users? I don’t think so. Let’s take the example of the media player. Yes, removing WMP will probably help Real and Apple. However, both are developing their own standards (just like MS). Users will now need to have three different players on their computer. Great. Yes, your mplayer or xine can play all these formats but there are legal issues (as I believe you CANNOT use their codecs without their program installed on your computer). Sure, some kind web developers will probably offer you their streaming content in these three formats but it’ll inevitably cost them something.
Well, that’s my point of view on the situation. Feel free to disagree but let’s remember something: Microsoft didn’t choose to be a monopoly. We made them one by using their products exclusively (or rather by pirating them, as 90% of the people I know didn’t bought their copy of MS Windows).
</rant>
Key logger? I’d like to know how to disable that =O)
As many people have pointed out WMP is a superior product (I believe this and I hate M$ stuff) to both RealPlayer and QuickTime, both of which annoy me immensely.
I’ve pretty much read through all of the comments here (I’m trying to distract myself from work) and something that has really bugged me is the whole “if MS have to remove WMP then Linux distros should have to remove their players”
Many people have correctly stated that the with Linux there is nearly always a choice of products, and always an easy way to choose what you install (if not then there IS an easy way to un-install).
The thing is this: Microsoft HAVE NOT been told they have to remove WMP, they simply have to sell a version of Windows without it as well so that the consumer may make a choice. This may be extreme, personally I think it should ship with WMP but give you a choice as to whether or not you want to install it, while at the same time allowing you to choose whether or not you want to install QuickTime or RMP.
I use winamp for all my music playback and VideoLAN for my videos – I care not for Media Player – I think it sucks – just not as much as RealOne or quicktime.
“Since when MS can’t port WMP to competing OSes? I’ve read on this very site that they were planning to develop some ports for MacOSX and Linux. It’s not tied to the OS like Internet Explorer is.”
My bad I ment MS could choose not to port to any compeditor once WMP becomes standard to fortify windows dominance.
“Secondly, some claims aren’t true. Yes, they might not give a chance to the competition, but it’s not like if there’s one either. For example, I don’t know any sane person that would choose RealONE over WMP. There’s probably not enough foul words in the English language to describe how bad it is. QuickTime is better but not as good as WMP. It’s not really stable (at least here) and it keeps bugging me for purchasing a “pro” version I really don’t care of. ”
I use MPlayer on Linux and perfer it to WMP, xine is also good.
“The problem, as I see it, is that the competition isn’t organisated enough to fight against Microsoft. They all prefer to fight them individually instead of uniting together. They could tackle them but they don’t want to for some reason or another. They prefer to take the easy way.”
How do you fight MS, there only GOOD product was MS Basic back in the mid 70’s. Windows was always behind the times, it took MS till 1990 to do what Geos did in 1986. BeOS tried to launch an attack at fortress Windows with a far superior OS and lost badly.
“Microsoft didn’t choose to be a monopoly. We made them one by using their products exclusively (or rather by pirating them, as 90% of the people I know didn’t bought their copy of MS Windows).”
Really? MS tried its hardest to be a monopoly. They wouldn’t sell you a licence for windows if you wanted to sell PCs with Windows and another OS. So if you wanted to sell many PCs with Windows,BeOS,OS/2,BSD,Linux and GeOS all preinstalled MS would pull your licence to sell Windows or at the very least make you pay extreamly high prices to do so.
“Or perhaps it is their formats, which have been gathering mindshare over the past few years because of its (alleged) superiority over Real’s formats (esp. in video streaming, I heard)?”
You heard? I heard the Sun evolves around the Earth. (I also heard that yesterday, Microsoft evolved around the Real Sun.) Or is it that you mean hearing the sound?
“A funny thing about demo pages; about a year ago when Microsoft put up a demo page trumpeting how the newly released WMA 8 beat Real 8 in 64kbps quality, they included a number of samples purportedly demonstrating that WMA was now clearly superior. I read the page at that time, shook my head and thought to myself, “Poor Real. Microsoft finally
caught them.” I didn’t even listen to the samples, but I left the page with a clear idea in my head that WMA 8 really was better than Real.
Odd thing, though; a few months later I finally listened to those demo samples side by side… and was actually surprised to find that Real was clearly superior in every featured demo comparison. It wasn’t even really close, and these were samples hand picked by Microsoft to show
off WMA.
[…]
The slick page had suckered me– ME– of all people, and I obviously like to think I’m smarter than that.
–Monty, lead developer of the Ogg Project 20020719″
“But perhaps users actually use WMP because it is superior to its competitors?”
Perhaps. Perhaps not.
What is superiour about it? Any competitor has to be at least as good, if not far better. Prop. codecs is another aspect but some sites work around that by allowing multiple proprietary streams. MS simply has a pre because they already deliver a solution with the OS.
“It’s not tied to the OS like Internet Explorer is.”
Strange. If MSIE is tied to Windows, then how come there were Solaris, MacOS, HP-UX, and some more ports?
I use MPlayer on Linux and perfer it to WMP, xine is also good.
I never said that WMP was the ultimate player around. I use Totem (xine) in Linux but I know there are potential licencing problems with the codecs. Furthermore, they ain’t as easy to use as WMP. They don’t have the same amount of features either. Finally, a version of mplayer for MS Windows doesn’t seem to be available for the general public right now. I didn’t saw one with a GUI.
How do you fight MS, there [sic] only GOOD product was MS Basic back in the mid 70’s. Windows was always behind the times, it took MS till 1990 to do what Geos did in 1986. BeOS tried to launch an attack at fortress Windows with a far superior OS and lost badly.
Well, they must have done something right if they are labelled as being a near monopoly, don’t you think?
In my opinion, BeOS just made a big mistake by doing this. They were simply not ready to do this. They did like so many competitors tried. That’s why I said that companies need to unite to fight them.
Really? MS tried its hardest to be a monopoly. They wouldn’t sell you a licence for windows if you wanted to sell PCs with Windows and another OS. So if you wanted to sell many PCs with Windows,BeOS,OS/2,BSD,Linux and GeOS all preinstalled MS would pull your licence to sell Windows or at the very least make you pay extreamly high prices to do so.
Well, I don’t remember to have said that they were playing fairly. However, nobody ever forced these OEMs to accept their conditions. Nobody forced them to sell Microsoft Windows. They made a choice, like we made the choice to buy these PCs with their OS. Why didn’t we bought Macs instead?
Strange. If MSIE is tied to Windows, then how come there were Solaris, MacOS, HP-UX, and some more ports?
To my knowledge, all these ports are: a) so old that dinosaurs probably used them; and b) ain’t maintened anymore (for example, Microsoft discontinued their support of MSIE for MacOS as they claim they can’t compete against Apple ans Safari due to the inner knowledge of their OS (oh the irony)). Anyway, that wasn’t my point. My point is that you just can’t remove MSIE of MS Windows that easily because the OS itself depend on it. You could possibly remove it but it’ll probably break the functionnality of many programs and parts of the OS.
The hilarious thing is that this ruling will have no effect at all. The benefits are all imagined. Just wait and see.
They will unbundle the *already removable* WMP from Windows and no one will ever buy the WMP-free version anyway.
Computer manufacturers who ship systems with Windows won’t notice either. All the Windows systems my friends and I have purchased in the last three years have come with Realplayer and Musicmatch as well as WMP AND we all downloaded WinAmp as well because we love it. But apparently there isn’t any competition represented here. If someone it too stupid to realize there is another media player on their computer besides WMP should we try to punish Microsoft for it? Of course!
I really don’t think that crippling one company is the way to create competition in the media player market. Crippling (or attempting to) Microsoft allows companies like Real to sit back and do absolutely nothing – as opposed to actually trying to make their piece of crap software into something people don’t loathe.
I have a hard time imagining that the people who make these rulings against Microsoft even have a clue about computers anyway. These are the same people who don’t know how to make an attachment to an e-mail.
http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/36520.html
“Well, they must have done something right if they are labelled as being a near monopoly, don’t you think?”
They inherited market “dominance” from IBM with no effort what so ever (it was just handed to them by IBM due SNAFUs on IBMs part) and simply used it to create a near monopoly.
“Nobody forced them to sell Microsoft Windows. They made a choice, like we made the choice to buy these PCs with their OS. Why didn’t we bought Macs instead? ”
Macs were always expensive and by the mid 90’s Commodore was gone, Atari and Acorn was irrelevant and BeOS wouldn’t last long.
What choice do we have now? MS,Apple and open source projects not really the heavly compeditive atmosphere that existed only 10 years ago.
Apple, a monopoly on desktop PowerPC systems, is fined and ordered to remove iTunes from its Operating System.
“I think governments should *not* interfere with free market. It is best to leave it alone.”
The governments give protection to the corporations, by issuing patents and copyrights. It’s not too much to ask for something in return?
Microsoft broke the European law. When they expanded with offices across Europe and sold software, they had to follow Europen laws.
If an European did something “illegal” in the US it would be natural that they were judged by the US courts.