Home > Oracle and SUN > Sun Java Desktop System Release 2 Nears Sun Java Desktop System Release 2 Nears Eugenia Loli 2004-05-04 Oracle and SUN 19 Comments From Slashdot: Sun is putting out Java Desktop System Release 2. Some overview information is in this article while more technical information about the new management solutions are in this one. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 19 Comments 2004-05-04 7:48 pm What if we already own JDS1, do we get a free upgrade? If not, how much does it cost? etc., etc., etc.,…. Thanks… 2004-05-04 8:21 pm To begin with I was pretty excited about it, with that fancy 3d desktop Sun was working on, but knowing how Sun one day loves Linux the next day saying that Linux has no place on PC’s, I have no faith in them ever making a solid finished product… 2004-05-04 8:37 pm Well you won’t have to get Project Lookinglass from Sun once it’s finished since they said at the X conference that they were going to open source it once it was done. So another distro might pick it up, or you could install it yourself. 2004-05-04 9:13 pm I received a live-cd copy from JDS1 and tried it on a HP d325 Desktop System. All I could say is that, from the corporate point of view, is a very good product. Solid, nice, with StarOffice 7 bundled, network neighborhood for both NFS and SMB, GNOME with all the style, IM, Evolution, Mozilla, JDK and stuff.. I’ve read @ Sun’s portal that the new version includes a new centralized management system. So IMHO, JDS is not for your mother, may be neither for you, it’s for a corporate looking for an easy way out to Linux systems. Regards 2004-05-04 9:24 pm really Linux doesn’t matter at all. If Sun (as I wouldn’t be surpised did) replaced Linux with Solaris for JDS it doesn’t matter. They are still using OSS software GNOME and anything they do will be able to be used across and *nix. If SCO kills Linux we still have the *BSDs. So if Sun flip-flops on the kernel thats them finding out what works best for them. Personally the fact that they choose GNOME instead of KDE for the desktop is more of a factor than whether it is on Linux, or Solaris, or HURD< or OpenBSD. People usually mean the whole OSS package when they mean Linux but when Sun says it they are referring to the kernel specifically. How many of you are qualified to comment on the kernel itself? As long as the programs that matter most (a hypothetical Sun-GTK-Super-Calc) are still compatible then it’s all good. Remember the beauty of OSS software is not being stuck in monolithic stack (kernel/wm/browser) but the freedom to choose… so why is it a big deal if they choose a different kernel? 2004-05-04 9:35 pm err. what are you are talking about btw? 2004-05-04 10:50 pm Insightful. 2004-05-05 12:57 am It might be an easy way out to Linux, but it’s not a cheap one apparently. $100 per copy per year! I’d probably stick with Win98 😉 2004-05-05 1:39 am err. what are you are talking about btw? That for all the talk of “Sun flip-flopping on Linux” and “Sun is the enemy of OSS” is irrelevant since Linux is just a kernel (which is not intrisically important since other free kernels exist) and as the JDS is built on an open and open source architecture Sun’s position on Linux is irrelevant to it being a friend to the OSS community. It was meant partially as a follow-up to “Tomorrow they dont want linux on the desktop” and that train of thought. @bact’ : Thank you. 2004-05-05 3:18 am sun is using JDS on linux because schwartz personally likes linux (no joke, he hates red hat though) it’s also because there are more desktop drivers for linux than solaris. Solaris is not yet fined-tuned for x86 hardware. It will be and drivers will be updated rapidly. So, don’t worry this open desktop is here to stay and its great. You people listen to too much of the FUD. If you actually worked at sun or you were an investor that has contacts with them you’d understand. but you don’t. It’s like believing saddam had WMD when there was no actual picture of a missel at the time, no updated information, no actual photo just suspicion. Sadly, people believed it. 2004-05-05 4:09 am What if we already own JDS1, do we get a free upgrade? If not, how much does it cost? etc., etc., etc.,…. Yes, you will get a free upgrade, and continue to receive freeupgrades until your subscription finishes. Thats the benefit of subscription software, you will always receive a stream of continuous updates and upgrades rather than having to worry about when the next release will be released. The net result of subscriptions is it allows the vendor to gradually impliment new features rather than having to ram a whole heap every three years into one release, resulting in a higher likelihood of bugs. 2004-05-05 5:20 am To begin with I was pretty excited about it, with that fancy 3d desktop Sun was working on, but knowing how Sun one day loves Linux the next day saying that Linux has no place on PC’s, I have no faith in them ever making a solid finished product… Based on what? I have a couple of friends who work in SUN lets put it this way: 1) They love Linux, its a low cost vehicle to get themselves onto the desktop with much less investment that what it would take if they chose to use Solaris as that vehicle. 2) SUN hates those who try and mix openstandards and opensource. That is why SUN was trying to get at when he said, “Red Hat is proprietary”. The fact that it is opensource is immaterial, what they want is not only opensource but openstandards which will allow anyone to impliment a chosen technology and allow many vendors to compete on a level playing field. 3) Linux is what is going to save SUN. Even though they’re rather secret in terms of what they do, kind of like Apple, they do actually have customers right now waiting for the right time to move. Many will start moving when Release 2 is made available, some are waiting for Release 3 as they’re informed on what is happening internally at SUN in regards to the features being added. 2004-05-05 11:52 am >>1) They love Linux. I guess that explains sunw teaming up with scox, and mcneally parroting mcbride on so many occasions, and sunw saying that they had no linux strategy, and sunw saying (in deference to all logic and evidence) that linux was not useful as a server. >>3) Linux is what is going to save SUN.<< By threatening their core business? Unlike solaris, anybody can sell linux. Sunw has no special competitive advantage with linux. Sunw tried to gain such an advantage by joining up with scox, and saying that sunw had the only legal linux, but that strategy fell through fairly quickly, and left mcneally looking like a fool, again. Sunw likes linux when it competes with msft on the desktop. Sunw doesn’t like linux when it competes with solaris. Sunw is clearly not fully commited to linux, and I wouldn’t trust sunw when it comes to linux. 2004-05-05 12:41 pm I think this is exactly the point that Schwartz made about RedHat’s proprietary kernel. Now that RedHat is going to have a new kerel for their desktop(you don’t think they will give away their server kernel, do you) it is quickly becoming moot what kernel you have. You will be able to use stable secure software for the server and desktop and still have interoperability. The fact that you may be running a Solaris kernel means nothing to anyone. Best of both worlds. Support, security and adherance to open standards(APIs) is what is important. All I want is my apps to work, I don’t care about telling my friends I use open source. All the rest is just so much wind. 2004-05-05 7:32 pm “2) SUN hates those who try and mix openstandards and opensource. That is why SUN was trying to get at when he said, “Red Hat is proprietary”. The fact that it is opensource is immaterial, what they want is not only opensource but openstandards which will allow anyone to impliment a chosen technology and allow many vendors to compete on a level playing field.” Ummm….implementing openstandards as well as opensource DOES allow anyone to implement a chosen technology. Especially RedHat, who won’t use it if it is not open, standards or source. Sun hates open standards as they would prefer everything to be closed down themselves, and I will change my thinking on that if and when they GPL Solaris as has been mentioned. Right now SUN has developed the JDS on closed source and closed standards on top of open source and standards. SUN would prefer no other vendors in the market, period. 2004-05-05 8:14 pm “Sun hates open standards” ??? what??!! I can’t believe that there will be anyone can say this. Look at these: – OpenOffice.org XML file format (no lock-in to any office suite. i.e. no need to use OO.o to read OO.o files. — this is versus MS Office file format) – Liberty Alliance, for digital identity management. (no lock-in to any website, service, or identity software. — this is versus MS Passport) – Java platform, for platform-neutral software development (no lock-in again. use whatever IDE you want, Eclipse, NetBeans, JBuilder whatever. choose any JVM, from Symantec, IBM, any, no need to be Sun. choose any J2EE server, from Apache, BEA, IBM, ..numbers). – JXTA platform for open, language-neutral, as well as platform-neutral p2p protocols. – they use unmodified version of LDAP, TCP/IP, .., standard protocols (vs some companies that use their own propietary protocols, or a modified version of standard protocol (e.g. Microsoft TCP/IP)) – Even some of those products mentioned above are not open source, but they all open standards (come from a standard body that consists of many vendors in the relevant industries/fields.) If you says Sun is TOO CRAZY about open standards, that will be a lot more makes sense. (since sometime they wait too long for a standard, and during that time they just lost market share to the competitors who just go with propietary ones). if you look at Sun’s vision, since they started the company, “The Network is the Computer”, you’ll see. propietary protocols just don’t work with the rest of the network. 2004-05-05 8:36 pm “”Sun hates open standards” ??? what??!! I can’t believe that there will be anyone can say this.” Yeah, maybe hates was too strong. My reference was strictly for the JDS. I will rephrase to say that they like open standards when it suits them. I know very well what open standards are, and that is what SUN used to be, with JDS I just don’t buy it anymore as from anything I can find JDS is a proprietary interface. All the JVM’s you mention do not all work correctly together as they are not all based on SUN’s implementation of the Java standard, but rather on the standard that is publicly available. SUN just happens to be the ones that wrote it and did not release everything about it. 2004-05-05 8:52 pm I wish that they identified what major kernel version JDS 2 is running on. I’m almost willing to move to JDS, but it depends on how stable Fedora Core 2 is. I think that SUN has done some catch up in Linux public relations, but it still slightly trails behind RedHat. 2004-05-05 8:54 pm Open source software under the GPL is superior to open standards.