Microsoft is launching new initiatives intended to make the Windows operating system a more attractive target for software developers.
Microsoft launches new developer support program
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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it already is an attractive platform. perhaps they mean in the super high end clustering and GRID market that they hope to break into.
all I know is that Longhorn sounds like it will be a dream to develop for, and C# apps are awesome to create, you get a better language than VB and the RAD tools of VB…NICE 🙂
> C# apps are awesome to create
I’ve seen a C# project that is a factor of 2 over time budget. The developer’s level of experience is even more important than a language’s features or tools. There is no doubt that Visual Studio is the best GUI painter out there, but the productivity in the back end for C# seems pretty much the same as Java from my experience leading developers.
Please repeat after me, “There is no silver bullet”.
“but the productivity in the back end for C# seems pretty much the same as Java from my experience leading developers.”
I agree with this statement. I wouldn’t say that C# or the .NET framework facilitates a huge increase in productivity over old-school VB, even. However it is probably a good bit more productive than old win32 C++ development. I think that the main advantage in the .NET framework is that it allows you to perform the same tasks in almost exactly the same way using any .NET language. C# is also very similar to Java, making it quite easy for a Java developer to migrate over.
What does your comments about budgets, silver-bullets have to do with his remark that C# is a better language than VB with the nice RAD in VS?
As far as being just as productive in java as c#, well maybe. But C# has some nice language enhancments that either Java is just now getting (courtesy of C# competition) or not getting. They might as well open source Java if they plan on keeping up with .NET and c#.
Watch Bruce Eckel’s video (on the front page) regarding Sun and Java to see some of the total goofs that Sun has made regarding Java.
are you sure it was the languages fault? like you said, experienced developers are a problem. also, I think that to many times, companies try to fit software development into a publishing model rather than an engineering model. if the feds ever require architect-like standards on software ( which I firmly believe that they will) and have the laws to back them up, you will see deadlines disappear because jobs will be 8 to 10 times over due.
sure, VB is still great for stuff that should be knocked out quickly like DB front ends and stuff, but if you want a language that gives you some power and some GUI RAD, C# is there for you. I think that there are A LOT of VB apps out there that would be so much better done in C# just because of the level of complexity of the application.
when longhorn comes out you will have a CLR that can run multiple threads so there is no need for a VM boot so the slowness will disappear since MS will have the CLR well integrated into Longhorn.
also, if you are referring to the win32 APIs, all MS is doing is making a managed wrapper to go over the APIs to aid in safe coding for ISVs, if you are referring to other apis specific to .NET, well, tough poo. Windows has become a steaming pile of virus garbage because of the legacy support. I hope that all OS vendors begin breaking Backwards compatibility after 5 years if there is a need to get rid of something that is just not working out like they want it to.
Perhaps I misunderstood Debman’s original post, which I mistook for breathless cheerleading of .NET. As Jeff Perrin correctly points out, C# and .NET are a huge improvement over the Win32 API, and I agree with Lumbergh that Sun has made some gaffes with Java. However, I just wanted to keep people’s feet on the ground with regard to the Microsoft Developer tools. I have direct experience with a developer pushing for a .NET solution based on the cheerleading/marketing of others and the promises of new RAD productivity, but the development time has taken twice as long as projected (and I’m still counting).
So again, I wished to share my experience so others don’t make the same mistake, “There is no silver bullet”. Don’t let anyone’s marketing tell you different (not Sun’s, nor Microsoft’s, nor [heaven forbid they should use marketing] GNU’s).
well, it a developer does C++ and is given a C# task with no knowledge of the language, of course you will have to factor in learning time and proficiency time into how long it will take for that solution.
what exactly was the project?
I have written many apps using Win32 and a few using .NET. And it is a slow busted subset of the Win32 API. There are many bugs in .NET — bugs on top of the bugs already in the Win32 API. And beyond bugs, there is still much functionality of the Win32 API that is not available via .NET.
Of course for the great behemoth of “make work for brother” computing, Microsoft, having a giant beached whale of an API is a “good thing”. Make people upgrade! As without upgrades, Microsoft withers on the vine.
One currently cannot write either a small program (i.e. small EXE) or a fast program (i.e. fast EXE) or a cool program (i.e. something that makes you say “wow”) using .NET.
As for Longhorn… who cares how many threads .NET has? It is still a busted design written by a bunch of has been coders that simply copied Java’s busted design and threw some MS Krylon on top.
Overall, .NET is going to abandoned just like Microsoft’s many other forays into megalithic MONOculture computing.
Scientific measurement and control application. It certainly looks pretty on the outside, but has taken the developer a long time to get to this stage, despite having a fair amount of experience with both Visual Studio 6 and Delphi/Kylix.
Windows, regardless of the existence of this new support program, is still an attractive (if not necessary) platform to develop for. Developing *exclusively* for Windows, however, is not attractive anymore (unless for games or OS-specific tools). Linux is gaining grounds everyday. Web technology and tools like Qt/WxWidgets/Java/Python/Ruby/Mono makes it easy to do cross-platform development. API in Windows itself is going to change radically. Plus you know that, if your application is popular enough, Microsoft will “embrace and extend” it.
I personally like Windows as a development platform, except one thing i.e. their lack of support for command line tools. Compiling a simple C++ file using cl.exe is not simple “cl test.cpp” job. I wonder why doesn’t Microsoft make these things easy.
Other than this, i like developing on windows because of their great documentation, support to do so many things and biggest of all is, i can find all information at one place i.e. MSDN. This is the best part, u get MSDN and u have everything u want to know about windows (well almost).
From last few months, i have started using DDK to build my normal programs too and YAY i got my command line compilation tools. I find it a breath of fresh air to get away from Visual Studio (except for big projects when i need intellisense and stuff).
Overall, i think Microsoft’s support for development is better than other OSes in market.
Recently i used Virtual Server from Microsoft, and it has a DCOM server built in, can you imagine how cool it is, to control all its functionality from VB Script or JavaScript. I mean this kind of technology is almost non-existant in unix world, where i can control a core C/C++ app from any scripting language.
“Compiling a simple C++ file using cl.exe is not simple “cl test.cpp” job. I wonder why doesn’t Microsoft make these things easy. ”
as far as I know all you have to do is to set your enviromet. several set coommands in batch file is all you have to do, if you like to have command line enviromet.
Visual Studio ‘whidbey’ has some new build options I think that you can use from the command line with ease. Some kind of XML formatted project description and a program called ‘msbuild’
Plus you know that, if your application is popular enough, Microsoft will “embrace and extend” it.
How’s that different from Mac OSX (Konfabulator) or Linux with variations of the same software to suite every possible personality type.
There is no reason to use C# over any other language for that application. that person was defiantly a cheerleader.
please stop with the konfabulator garbage. It has been debunked ad nausium.
Apple did rip-off Konfabulator. If the people who made Konfabulator had gotten patents, Apple would be paying them. It is that simple.
The fact that the patent system is setup to keep the little guy out of the market is what enables big companies like Apple and Microsoft to steal other people’s ideas and code and get away with it.
Everyone copies (aka embrace and extend) stuff from others, Apple copied konfabulator to dashboard. Apple copied FreeBSD, linux copied most of its UI design from Microsoft, Linux copied most of its kernel concept from Unix…Microsoft is not alone in this world..
Now keep this useless talk offtopic please…
Mod me down guys…but please along with steven
it is not that simple and if you bothered to read up on it you would realize that.
@Wolf:
Not accurate to say “Apple copied FreeBSD” because, well, the BSD license 🙂 and the fact that Apple publicly brags about using FreeBSD.
@Debman:
I didn’t realize the whole Konfabulator issue was debunked, and quite frankly I don’t care. It was the first thing that came to mind, so I was just using it as an example to illustrate the fact that Microsoft is not the only “bad guy.” All companies are out there for personal gain and it’s all about the money.
word on the street is that apple paid the guy who allegedly ‘debunked’ apple’s ripoff.
if you believe apple doesn’t steal from their isv’s every day, you are naive.