“Many people note that 2007/8 is so far away that without an excellent crystal ball, nobody could predict what the update will contain. But one thing I reckon for certain about Longhorn is that it will be able to run Linux software.” Read the article at VNUNet.
Windows takes on multiple roles
2004-07-22 Windows 25 Comments
Linux can run lots of windows apps through winex. But Windows will still be Windows. Still be from Microsoft
With some modifcations, most .NET apps will be able to run in linux too.
“But one thing I reckon for certain about Longhorn is that it will be able to run Linux software.”
This may be a silly question. But how many linux apps does it not support currently. I don’t think there are many Linux only apps. Most apps for linux also are on other platforms. If it’s a closed source app, the linux version is probably a port from MacOS or Windows. If it’s just a straight linux app it’s probably open sourced and thus not to stuck to the platform. Plus I belive you can get a Xwindows system up though cygwin. So my question is really, how many linux app currently work can’t be made to work on windows without a bit of work?
MS could make this even easier if they did like apple and put in a native X server in windows. Furthermore how many apps does linux have that people on windows would want and can’t have some ass good or better allready existing for windows?
So, what everybody should do is program for POSIX systems, and have the ease of running software on OSX, Linux, and Windows. Why code for windows native when that would keep your software tied to one platform, when Windows will run Unix apps without problem?
What am I saying, they’ll support linux, but everything will run horribly.
Take any company nowadays that’s looking into migrating to Linux. Of all the reasons they give for making the switch, is any one of those reasons “so I can run that awesome Linux app”? Absolutely not. People aren’t jumping ship to Linux for the software available on it. They’re switching for many other reasons. Stability, TCO, OSS to name a few. But not for software. So by supporting Linux apps on their platform, Microsoft wouldn’t be stopping any companies defecting for any of those other reasons. What good is a “Linux app” anyway, if it still runs on the same shitty OS platform that is Windows?
Cygwin already does this quite nicely. I can’t really say anything about server apps, but I’ve got a nice little XFCE4 desktop I can switch to when I’m in Windows and have to get some real work done 🙂 Works great.
You can pretty much do this with Cygwin and MinGW already. Doesn’t Windows NT have a POSIX ‘subsystem’? (might not be that good?)
I guess they could add support for ELF binaries in thier loader (if they don’t already have it) and re-write ld-linux.so as a wrapper around the Win32 or Native NT versions of those function and everything else would pretty much work with little or no changes (I reckon). ‘Twould need ’emulation’ of /dev devices but most of that is already available in Device. You could even make .LNK files look like symlinks (doesn’t NTFS support symlinks to some extent? might be better for them to stay with the old ‘shortcut’ hack for compatibility).
I doubt it would take *all this time* to do that.
Eating my backslashes.
It sounds to me that MS is basically developing their own closed-source alternative to Cygwin. The article states that SFU currently includes GCC and other OSS software; but that MS is slowly replacing those components.
It’s a great thing for OSS, really: it means a larger user base for products like Apache and Sendmail, and an easier migration path to Linux from Windows. It’ll also make heterogeneous environments more practical.
Sorry when I said ld-linux.so I probably meant libc.so.
Most “good” “linux apps” already have native windows versions, most more useable than the linux versions.
Ok, here’s one. Take a Linux (ELF) binary, copy it over to windows, and run it as you would any .exe file. Now…. that’s what this discussion should all be about, not porting Linux apps to Windows
maybe i will stipulate that my code can’t be run on non free platforms, get round that Bill.
… comes astonishing prediction! Lo and behold, forget all Longhorn is about, the most important, utmost critical, not-to-be missed, live free or die feature is that Longhorm, most likely, apparently, probably, crystal ball sure will run Linux code.
Wow! Can’t wait. No, really- can’t. So, because I can’t, I went to http://www.microsoft.com, downloaded free 6 months eval version of Windows 2003 Server, downloaded free eval version of Microsoft Virtual Server 2005, put one one top of another and here it is: run whatever X86 OSes you want, from DOS to Linux (Windows included) under Virtual Machines.
Make as many of them as much RAM you have. They all will run as separate OSes.
So, running Linux binaries a must for you on Windows? Wait no longer: you can do it with Windows 2003, having separate VM for Linux to run circles in it, and rest of machine to run Windows applications.
After all, what is the point of runnig Linux software directly on Windows, kind of reverse WINE: that software sure can’t invoke Windows COM object to talk to.
Better have full Linux kernel/distro running, and whatever Linux software you wish comfortably running on top of it.
So, crystal ball or no crystal ball: it is here and now in eval for everyone to try for free, will be offered as a final product by the end of this year- long before Longhorn.
“Of all the reasons they give for making the switch, is any one of those reasons “so I can run that awesome Linux app”? Absolutely not. People aren’t jumping ship to Linux for the software available on it.”
And since an OS is used for running apps that is why Linux will never move beyond file and print servers. There are no killer apps for Linux.
they better give the OS and Office away for free and charge for support.
try out services for UNIX, you can already recompile a fair amount of open source software to run on it … all you need to get apart from that is (probably) an X server for windows … and it is a free download!
It already has, it’s already used in places where no winodows has been seen ever.
You are BAAAADLY mistaken….the point is that “one can run linux apps NATIVELY,” NOT “in the Virtual Machine”
BTW, you can run M$ Windoze apps flawlessly with VMWare for Linux :3 :3 :3 :3
I can see where Windows-centric people would believe this is a new feature that will win back market share from Linux. The truth is most FOSS (Free/Open Source Software) already runs under Windows in one form or another. Apache, MySQL, OpenOffice.org, and many others have native ports. For other applications, there is Cygwin, VMware and other environments and emulators.
If you want to run FOSS software, though, why would you spend all of the money on Windows licenses and put up with all of the security problems, patching and downtime when you could run Linux for much less money and get much better results?
I wonder why my bosses company is going back to windows servers? Oh yes thats right not much in the way of support from Linux companys, and windows costs a lot less in real terms due to downtime with linux servers and onhands help from some linux expert.
Also windows is the best os out there which is natch due to there being only 1% of linux users out there anyways!!!
If linux was around during the macarthy era I reacon youd all be sent to prison for being commies.
the point is that “one can run linux apps NATIVELY
Thanks, but no thanks. I am not looking forward to multiply Windows security vulnerabilities by the Linux software security vulnerabilities.
Instead, treat Virtual Machine as bullet-proof chroot jail, where Linux applications can roam freely, without risk of destroying underlying system.
Heck, why not create second VM, put Windows into it, and run it in VM, too? By doing that, all Windows applciations will be running in their own nice environment, side by side with Linux applications, harmless to each other and to host OS.
Is not chroot jail a recommended secure way of running apps on Linux? Here, with MS Virtual Server, you’ve got the same secure functionality for Windows- and you are complaining?
>you can run M$ Windoze apps flawlessly with VMWare for Linux
Not to start flamewar, but either it is M$ Windoze and you do not use it, or it is MS Windows and you learn how to use and to spell it properly. Grow up. You’ll get more respect from grown ups.
I don’t understand something: since when is it illegal to distribute GPL software with commercial software?
“SFU is not shipped with Windows because SFU currently contains open-source software, such as the GNU C compiler, which cannot be distributed with commercial software.”
That’s from a link to one of their own articles.
hm … seems to be dirty FUD by MS
You can get it from http://www.microsoft.com/windows/sfu/default.asp . Then install the packaging system from http://www.interix.com/ (which is a port of the NetBSD pkg_* tools) and any of the other packages they provide. I forked out a few dollars for X-win32 and can play Xgalaga “natively” on my windows desktop! Seriously though, it integrates a UNIX-like environment into Windows so much better than Cygwin. I have another machine at work running OpenSSHD to tunnel insecure VNC connections.