Some say the Browser Wars are over. They couldn’t be more wrong. Microsoft won Round One, and Round Two is just beginning, with the impending release of Firefox 1.0. Who’ll be the ultimate victor? Only time will tell. But ExtremeTech thinks that Firefox has a decent shot at taking the crown… especially since Microsoft seems to have taken its eye off the browser ball.
Firefox Preview Hits a Home Run
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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67 Comments
2004-09-21 5:18 pm
Anonymous
*firefox is weak for favorites/bookmarks.*
qualifier = “as compared to IE”
I wasn’t talking about Netcaptor. Out of the box, Firefox has a much easier to use and less cumbersome Bookmarks/Favorites functionality.
Darius.. I’m not aware of website that checks for plugins, but if I run across one I’ll let you know. 
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I recently downloaded and began using Firefox. In most ways, I prefer it to IE, but I’m having one difficulty I can’t overcome. Whenever I right-click on mp3 files to save them from Yahoo groups, I get an error message saying that the file has been moved or is no longer available. I don’t seem to have that problem with any other type of file.
Mozilla and Firefox has been my default browsers for years now. Heck, I’ve been using Mozilla as my primary browser from the before they had pop-up blocking. Of course, most of my friends haven’t and won’t switch. No real reason. Some don’t like the idea of installing software on their computer (that is, unless it is an ActiveX dialogue from IE), some are just lazy, others just don’t want to try something new. By bundling IE into Windows, IE becomes the default and most people won’t switch.
The 1.0PR of Firefox takes away some of the things that people might not like about Firefox – for instance, it can now install flash through the browser. But does it go far enough to make people switch? IE now has pop-up blocking built-in. Most people don’t care about tabbed browsing. Even less care about standards compliance (although anyone trying to make a site with an advanced CSS layout will quickly start cursing IE). Of course, all sites look right in IE simply because web developers make them that way.
Firefox has the potential to make some inroads as it progresses, but you could say the same for Linux. It’s a slow battle. While I appreciate the fact that the little things are taken care of in Firefox, other people don’t care and they aren’t going to switch unless you give them something they can’t dispute. Something more concrete like a killer feature that everyone wants.
Maybe I’m just pessimistic about people. I like Firefox for myself and I wish more people would use it – even more, I wish I could design for it rather than Internet Explorer. The results so far look promising. It’s been downloaded over a million times in a week. While that may not equate to usage, it does show interest and that’s important. Hopefully people are finding Firefox to be a useful tool. Maybe in the future some OEMs will ship Firefox as the default browser on their computers. Wouldn’t that be a great way to supplant Microsoft’s bundling advantage. Then the burden would be on Internet Explorer to offer a compelling reason to switch to it.
I have been using Firefox for the past year and I am so used to it that when I use IE I realize how many “lack” of change Microsoft has done with their browser.
The only problem is that most people use the browser that came with their PC so I think IE will still be the dominant browser.
I hear ya. I’ve convinced some friends to switch, while others really just don’t care. For those who have haven’t, I will refuse to fix their computer if they develop problems. Lazy? possibly. Apathetic? Absolutely. If somebody told me my car had a fatal flaw do you think I’d listen to what they had to say and follow their suggestions? You betcha! But when it comes to computers, people just want to put their fingers in their ears and go “lalala”. This is why we have so many worm-infected Windows zombie bot computers on the Internet.
I doubt we’ll see somebody like Dell start shipping with Firefox on the desktop, since they’re all in bed one way or another with Microsoft.
Hell, does IBM even ship with it on the desktop? I wonder…
But all of us geeks knew that, right?
At least on Windows & Linux it does (though now that they’ve ported the Mozilla rendering engine over to Konqueror, the situation on Linux may change somewhat). On OSX though, it’s another story.
Try as I might, I cannot get into using Firefox on the Mac. I would love to sync my Firefox profiles between work and home (so bookmarks, plugins, etc. would be equal on both ends), and in Windows I can. But OSX is quickly becoming my preferred OS (controlling my P4 via Remote Desktop in a ful screen display on one of my monitors! Remote Desktop for OSX rocks!!), and I spend less and less time surfing on the Windows machine here at home.
Firefox for OSX is nice, but lacks polish. Which is understandable as it’s not been around as long as its x86 counterparts (to my knowledge it was ported fairly recently). A great example of its current shortcomings on OSX is that I cannot use my middle mouse button to close tabs (using a 7 button Intellimouse). Using an addon extension, I can close the tabs with a middle click, but it’s still different, and not quite as natural as I’m used to. Nor does it allow me to have equal looks/feels between work and home if I have to do this.
Other than some CSS rendering issues, Safari’s my favorite browser at the moment. Initially I felt it was rather light on features, but as with most OSX software, the depth of the software becomes apparent after you get used to it. Between addons such as Safaris Keywords (http://safarikeywords.sourceforge.net/), and Safari Bookmark Exporter (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/19266), Safari’s really oneo f the top browsers available. And since it’s based off Konqueror code (as I recall), I have high hopes that the Mozilla rendering engine will make it into Safari since it’s already been done for Konqueror. Perhaps then, the remaining CSS issues will disapear.
Other than for development (where I need CSS working 100%, and a dedicated Javascript debugger), I really don’t use Firefox that much at all under OSX.
My hope is that either Firefox’s OSX support matures fairly soon, in which case it has a chance as my number one browser, or Safari gets its CSS issues worked out, and offers up some JS debugging capabilities. I’m secretly hoping for the latter though over Firefox winning the race. Safari’s just a well built browser that is incredably powerful and fun to use.
I prefer Opera 7.5x. It has all I need in one program, and interface is nicer.
ive been a avid firefox user for about a year and a half hacked it and tweaked it. At school when im using ie i find myself missing all the features of firefox. Most people i know in my school dont care what they use as long as it works. In my opinion though firefox is my default browser. An on the new preview edition i have seen no issues whatsoever
I use Firefox on Windows for all of my browsing stuff. i own and operate a website and recently updated to a Dreamweaver design with a css. On IE as soon as i load the page it gives me errors. but on firefox it works fine. The thing i like most is tabbed browsing and opening a tab by clicking the wheel.
And the easyest way to get people to switch to firefox is to tell them there is a huge virus in IE that means that your infomation is sent all over the world including bank detals and passwords. and that the soloution is to download firefox and remove all shortcuts to IE
And the easyest way to get people to switch to firefox is to tell them there is a huge virus in IE that means that your infomation is sent all over the world including bank detals and passwords. and that the soloution is to download firefox and remove all shortcuts to IE
I would hope Firefox could win on it’s own merits instead of resorting to lying.
I agree. The Mac version of Firefox is a bit sluggish compared to Safari, Chimera, and others. (Note: This is based on 0.9x and not 1.0, I’m waiting for the final release canidate before I try it. ) I really do like firefox, but it won’t be my default browser until the speed issues are resolved a bit. It does feel unpolished, although I still use it now and then
I really hope it over takes IE’s marketshare.
because it’s the only browser that will run windows update
other than that, opera or firefox is way better
If you’re on OS X, run, don’t walk to bitart.com and download CocoaGestures – a freeware InputManager that enables mouse gestures in all Cocoa apps. I can’t browse without it now. Unfortunately, Firefox is not a Cocoa app, and cannot take advantage of CocoaGestures. Perhaps Camino will soon merge with Firefox… until then, it’s Safari and OmniWeb for me.
Supposedly, Firefox 1.0PR fixed like 10 security holes and now I hear that there are even more security holes in this realease? WTF?
Also, I see now they have an ActiveX-type installer. I thought there was supposed to be a feature where only sites on a whitelist could install plugins, but according to what I saw on a different PC (don’t have it here in front of me), it was allowing ALL sites. And just the other day, I was browsing an AOL music site and it wanted to install some kind of media extension. Is this going to be an ActiveX nightmare all over again?
Also, anyone know when the final release is due?
odd about that pc where all sites where allowed to install as here its only a whitelist (and one option to turn off external installing compleatly).
well as long as noone finds a way to do installs without the user being asked about it first then i dont think it will be the activex “mess” all over again.
as for the security holes, i dont have a clue. were did you “hear” about that?
“I doubt we’ll see somebody like Dell start shipping with Firefox on the desktop, since they’re all in bed one way or another with Microsoft.
Hell, does IBM even ship with it on the desktop? I wonder…”
in bed? you mean like they get paid to do use ie by default as provided to them by a partner that has helped them build their business? or in bed because they get support from ms? or in bed since they have one browser installed on something like 20 million pcs that ship each year and it makes it easier and hence less expensive to support those pcs when they have a similar configuration?
what computer vendor is going to ship pcs with beta software on it? mozilla is beta software so lets not jump the gun.
without any real support?
and since pc makers are in the biz of making money, does mozilla have any money to give pc makers to bother installing it? when pc makers put software on a machine the client or the software publisher is paying for it.
if you are dell, you want to keep costs down, so installing an add on piece of software has to at least cover the costs of installing it and then supporting it over the life of the pc. dell would install something if it at least wasn’t a drain on resources and consumers were so bent on having it….but note dell doesnt even ship adobe acrobat reader free on its pcs….i assume because adobe is unwilling to pay up.
sorry, mozilla cant pay and doesnt look like they will be able to any time soon.
and as long as over 150 million pcs ship each year with windows installed minus any significant numbers of alternate browsers (some do ship with netscape), then mozilla and others will mostly be relegated to being a toy for geeks to play with.
Have there been any developments regarding this?
http://primates.ximian.com/~miguel/archive/2004/Apr-24.html
“…Most people don’t care about tabbed browsing…”
That’s only because most people have never heard of the concept of tabbed web browsing. However, anyone that uses spreadsheets on a regular basis understands the concept and usefulness of tabs. I’ve introduced Firefox to some of my coworkers (our main tool is the Excel spreadsheet) and they absolutely *love* tabbed browsing and wonder why it wasn’t done from day one since spreadsheets have been doing it.
btw, I don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet, but Walter Mossberg (the Wall Street Journal tech columnist) last week recommended dumping IE in favor of Firefox. He also recommended switching over to a certain PPC-based OS, but that’s another story
Too bad you need a paid subscription to get to the article :
“btw, I don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet, but Walter Mossberg (the Wall Street Journal tech columnist) last week recommended dumping IE in favor of Firefox. He also recommended switching over to a certain PPC-based OS, but that’s another story
Too bad you need a paid subscription to get to the article”
he is on steve jobs payroll. when you ever see him say something positive about ms or negative about apple you will get a free beer.
his objectivity is nil.
Firefox is a great and free substitute for IE. I prefer and use Opera myself, but not everyone is willing to spend money on a browser. It has been worth it to me though. So, I usually recommend firefox to everyone i know who wouldnt pay for a browser, which is mostly eveyone.
Almost anything is better than IE when IE isnt a necessity but Firefox and Opera are at the top of the list for me.
I also prefer and use Opera. But I think Firefox has evolved considerably. My major problems are:
– The default action is “open in new window” instead of “open in new tab”. I need to use an extension for such a trivial thing. I used TBP Lite but v0.5 is not compatible anymore with Firefox 1.0PR.
– The gestures are not as smooth as in Opera (I use All-in-One gestures). Some of them don’t work (yes I tried configuring). Especially the lack of two button gestures is crucial.
That’s only because most people have never heard of the concept of tabbed web browsing. However, anyone that uses spreadsheets on a regular basis understands the concept and usefulness of tabs. I’ve introduced Firefox to some of my coworkers (our main tool is the Excel spreadsheet) and they absolutely *love* tabbed browsing and wonder why it wasn’t done from day one since spreadsheets have been doing it.
Agreed. My brother and sister now demand that I install Firefox on their new computer. They can’t live without tabbed browsing. The idea of having hundreds of Windows open at the same time pisses them off something silly.
As for the tab concept, anyone who has used Lotus Smart Suite will be used to it; tabs are used throughout the whole suite, from Lotus 1-2-3 to Word Pro.
The thing I like best about firefox is that I can run it on all of my boxes. At work I have moved almost strictly to firefox (except for windowsupdate) and thunderbird for my email. The combination of these two is excellent. At home I have firefox and thunderbird installed on every box I check email or surf the web on. MacOS X.3, Linux, FreeBSD and Windows. The majority of the interface is the same across them all. Most of the extensions that I use commonly are available on all platforms. If they had a stable relase. Almost every computer I have repaired lately I have installed firefox for the user. So far I have had no complaints. 5 for 5 in the last month. After showing them tabbed browsing they have all fallen in love with it.
oops. If they had a stable release I might be able to convince my university to go to firefox/thunderbird for our web and email solutions. (We currently use netscape 7.02)
You should try Camino. It is similar to Firefox as it is developed by Mozilla foundation and it is exclusive for Mac OS or OSX.
A couple of weeks ago I found that a friend of mine who has never been interested in anything alternative, he was using Firefox now.
I also borrow one of my other friend’s computer on a regular basis and one night I just couldn’t stand IE anymore so I installed Firefox. I thought he was going to be mad at me for installing some geeky software, and I certainly never thought that he’d start using it. Yet, the next time I was visiting he was using Firefox instead of IE.
He’s also just one of those who goes with the flow and doesn’t care about alternatives.
So there seems to be something magical about Firefox. I mean, I think it’s good, but not magically good. Perhaps it’s just that it’s similar enough to IE to be comfortable, but different enough to stand out.
I’m happy anyway
OS X Camino is pretty damn good and is also from the Mozilla stable.
I am using Camino. On Linux I used Firefox. On Windows I used Opera.
3 mighty fine browsers, with no need to install IE – period.
If you want email also Thunderbird on OS X is great. So that’s three great Mozila apps….Thunderbird, Camino and Firefox – running on the 3 platforms, Linux, OSX and Win.
IE has no tabbed browsing, no spam blocking, no extensions, no built in RSS feed reader or no conversion tools. On the bright side IE does have a heap load of security vulns.
I don’t see why people continue to cling to IE. I guess M$ is giving out kickbacks or something.
the article mentions web page performance .. the fact that the author uses an internet connection with too many vairables not eliminated (other traffic, server business, routing between client-server) … means his results are not valid. especially considering he didn’t repeat the tests manty times like all good school children do to maximise confidence in the results…
i’ve used firefox very much since 0.8 .. but this one 1.0pr was the first one where pop-up blocking didnt always work.
i’ve used firefox very much since 0.8 .. but this one 1.0pr was the first one where pop-up blocking didnt always work.
Was that on specific pages or just random ones? There’s a trick to bypass the pop-up blocker in firefox you know. They might be doing that.
The differences in CSS rendering between Moz and IE makes designing complex webpages with CSS very difficult. I often find it easier to resort to the good old nested tables instead. At least it looks pretty much the same in every browser.
i’ve used firefox very much since 0.8 .. but this one 1.0pr was the first one where pop-up blocking didnt always work.
I get popups occassionally on 0.9.3 as well.
hmm i wish Opera won the browserwars. i don’t like the firefox screamin little kid people (CHANGE TO FIREFOX ITS 100 TIMES BETTER AND SECURE!!!). Opera’s(which is a way better browser in my opinion) users don’t scream as much and unlike firefox evangelists seem to know about the fact that there are more browsers than two. Theres dozens. And as good as all; beats IE.
Now the goddamn press and webzines doesn’t look longer than their finger when it comes to this matter. I don’t know how many users use firefox compared to opera(the opera MOBILE browser has hit 1mill i see now on opera.com, that should give us a clue about the main browser downloads..), but the fact is the former enjoys much more publicity due to the fact that it has around itself a gigantic open-source community, and all just wanna believe in that open-source makes better apps than internal-source pragma.
I like Opera. And I find it faster than Firefox. I use it’s email(the learning spam filter is amazing), it’s newsfeed and it’s irc. And I can use all these features without getting a heavy-trudged browser like mozilla. Maybe you do not need or like these extra features and so my point is moot for you. So be it. You won’t notice them if you don’t use them anyway.
I guess I like Opera because of the same reason I prefer macs(well fast ones, using OSX sometimes feel like walking trough mud, and this you especially feel with lots of browserwindows open). If I used Firefox I know I would constantly feel the need to try and “perfect my browser”. Meaning I would have to download plugins, customize customize customize, much in the same way I have to “perfect windows” all the time; i mean the goddam os doesn’t give me enough control of it’s own os! I switch the image-viewer with irfanview, the video player with mplayer and videolan, the audio player with winamp, the windows-clock with tclock, not to mention all the preference settings i have to change to make the os usable in my eyes.etc ect etc..
Opera and mac spares me of all that, it looks like it should, have the features i want and all in all; just feel right
So thats why i’m hoping Opera will win the browser wars or at the very least, be respected enough to be INCLUDED by the press in their headlines as a contestant for the race.
I prefer Opera to Mozilla, but anything not MS is a good thing.
After the browser wars where full featured products became free who’s gonna pick Opera first? Better yet, is Dead End User Joe gonna know enough to pick Opera first? No, he’s gonna use IE until XXX Toolbar takes him down again.. and again. Mozilla Firefox is a good step forward. I install it on every repair service I can. People need to relaise there’s a choice before they step up to the plate and decide.
I have the same problem. They layour requires massive amounts of ie hacks to get things looking the same. Actually IE 5.5 and IE 6.6 have different rendering.
“IE has no tabbed browsing, no spam blocking, no extensions, no built in RSS feed reader or no conversion tools. On the bright side IE does have a heap load of security vulns.
I don’t see why people continue to cling to IE. I guess M$ is giving out kickbacks or something.”
first ie does web browsing not email, so thats why it doesnt have a spam blocker.
secondly, if you want every other one of those features you mentioned you can download avant browser ie shell at http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/1033086666/1 and it is only a 830KB download.
so ie with one download, much smaller download than firefox, does all of the things you mention.
‘Latest Mozilla releases fix 10 security flaws’
http://news.com.com/Latest+Mozilla+releases+fix+10+security+flaws/2…
I’ve also heard from somewhere (can’t remember where) that there are also some security issues with 1.0pr, but haven’t seen anything official yet.
My last post wasn’t flame bait .. I was responding to an earlier poster who said:
as for the security holes, i dont have a clue. were did you “hear” about that?
>>Something more concrete like a killer feature that everyone wants<<
I think added security is a killer feature. I think the biggest problem with win2k and XP is the constant flood of spyware and adware. Using firefox helps me eliminate much of the problem.
Anyone with examples of where pop-ups come up on Firefox? I’d really like to test this out. The only thing I’ve seen close to a pop-up is a little flash-based box that floats across a couple news articles on Yahoo, but even that’s not a pop-up in the normal sense.
Try http://www.aol.com
Some people get popups there and some don’t. I would say that if you have any adblock filters, disable those temporarily.
I just tried http://www.aol.com and with popups off and I got no popups. Is there a particular sub page one has to go to in order to see a popup? I tried almost all of the ones available except the “sign up for AOL” reference pages
Honesty, I don’t know how to make the damn things show up consistantly. Also, bare in mind that I’m still using FF 0.9.3 .. haven’t upgraded to the newest one yet.
OK, I went to http://www.aol.com and (naturally) denied the cookie. I deny all cookies except those of sites I have accounts/relationships with. It tries to reload the page, but instead of trying to reload http://www.aol.com it tries and fails to reload:
wyciwyg://1/http://www.aol.com
I suppose if you’re using AOL’s proprietary software that might mean something, but not in the real world. The page just stays blank and the bottom of my Firefox window also says “Transferring data from http300.edge.ru4.com”
It just seems like AOL has incompetent web designers to me.
why discuss something so easily rectified.
pop ups are easily defeated
firefox blocks them
ie 6 blocks them
many firewalls that people use block them (zone alarm pro)
free google toolbar blocks them
dozens and dozens of free tools block them
pop up blocking is no compelling reason to move to an alternative browser when it is done by default in ie 6.
why discuss something so easily rectified.
pop ups are easily defeated
That was the whole point of the discussion – I am getting random popups, even with Firefox’s popup blocker turned on. Only problem is, I can’t get them to show up consistently enough so that I can say “Go to THIS site and you’ll see.” Apparently, I seem to be the only one that is seeing popups, except for the other guy that posted here.
maybe you have adware that opens popups for you; ie: not the browser fault
try netcaptor
or maxthon
or avant browser
or ie 6 in svc pk 2
or install the google toolbar if you are using older ie or older os.
all of them work fine.
i have had popups appear as new tabs in firefox as well…but not in the 1pr release yet.
🙂
http://www.popuptest.com/
One great feature that Firefox has as compared to IE is the much less clunky Bookmarks and the ability to import Favorites/Bookmarks on install.
firefox is weak for favorites/bookmarks.
using netcaptor i have multi column view so no more long scrolling sessions.
when you create favorites in firefox they are not available to other browsers based on ie.
after firefox is installed, if any new favorites are created in an ie based browser they are not automatically available to firefox….you have to manually import them.
why wouldnt firefox use the default favorites folder for each user?
dumb design.
I also have seen random popups with Firefox 0.9.3. It has only happened once or twice when clicking through a link on Drudgereport.com (not by using open in new tab).