With Microsoft Corp.’s recent announcements that it will separate WinFS from the next major release of Windows and the release of Visual Studio 2005, not due for another six months, developers are looking to third-party vendors for certain functionality support now.
Third Parties Fill ‘Longhorn’ Void
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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hmm is this the same 3rd party companies that Microsoft always end up pissing off ?
you know the ones I mean ?
the ones who have a pretty decent piece of software and are making some nice cash from it….
before microsoft bundles a free version into the OS and puts the 3rd party out of the picture.
Go on 3rd parties, make some more quick cash before Microsoft once again gives you the hot meat enema
Looks like there are companies that will never learn. On the other hand, the customers get something cheaper once MS acts as a competitor, again on the other hand MS should not be allowed to make their price so low that their competitors are put out of business.
on the other hand MS should not be allowed to make their price so low that their competitors are put out of business.
You’re not going to put your competitors out of business by building an inferior product. Take WMP vs Winamp for example. And I don’t see the 3rd party firewall vendors hurting either? Netscape vs Internet Explorer? I’m sorry, but after 5.x, IE was the better of the two browsers.
An inferior/superior product is not everything. If it comes with the OS most people (casual users) will not bother to checkout something else. Currently IE is inferior to any other browser, but people still use it though.
“IE was”
The key word here is… WAS
“IE was”
The key word here is… WAS
Ok, IE was the better browser for how long? 2 or 3 years? And it gained 90 to 95% marketshare, so in 1 or 2 yeras Firefiox should have 90% marketshare and IE should have driopped till 5% more or less because it’s the inferior product. I very doubt that that will happen.
Why? Because it IE comes freaking bundled with the most popular OS in the world! No matter how ancient the engine is or how many security holes it may contain and now matter how big Firefox marketing campaign is or will be, IE will be and always will be the most popular browser as long as MS Windows is the most popular OS.
indeed
MS wont drop the price. They will offer an inferior product and no one will purchase the real deal. Cant wait for MS to get into the virus biz (sigh).
Use NHibernate instead – http://nhibernate.sourceforge.net
An inferior/superior product is not everything. If it comes with the OS most people (casual users) will not bother to checkout something else.
Alright, so if people are choosing to use IE instead of something else, how is this Microsoft’s fault? If people want to go looking for a superior alternative, they will surely find it.
Ok, IE was the better browser for how long? 2 or 3 years? And it gained 90 to 95% marketshare, so in 1 or 2 yeras Firefiox should have 90% marketshare and IE should have driopped till 5% more or less because it’s the inferior product. I very doubt that that will happen.
First of all, Firefox isn’t even out of beta yet, and some people have stopped using it because they keep breaking stuff (extensions) in between releases. So they install a new version and everything is crashing, and they don’t know why. Until they get the APIs stablized, Firefox is not ready for prime time.
Also, I hear this argument all the time that since MS is bundling IE into the OS that other web browsers don’t have a chance. So why aren’t people using this same argument with Apple and Safari? Sure, they’re not bundling it, but that isn’t really the point – the point is if a browser is included with the OS, then many users will be more inclined to stick with that one. Just because you can’t install IE doesn’t change the argument.
Also, people will say that Netscape was killed because MS started including IE with the OS, even though technically IE has been included with the OS since Win95 OSR1.
An inferior/superior product is not everything. If it comes with the OS most people (casual users) will not bother to checkout something else.
Alright, so if people are choosing to use IE instead of something else, how is this Microsoft’s fault? If people want to go looking for a superior alternative, they will surely find it.
Ok, IE was the better browser for how long? 2 or 3 years? And it gained 90 to 95% marketshare, so in 1 or 2 yeras Firefiox should have 90% marketshare and IE should have driopped till 5% more or less because it’s the inferior product. I very doubt that that will happen.
First of all, Firefox isn’t even out of beta yet, and some people have stopped using it because they keep breaking stuff (extensions) in between releases. So they install a new version and everything is crashing, and they don’t know why. Until they get the APIs stablized, Firefox is not ready for prime time.
Also, I hear this argument all the time that since MS is bundling IE into the OS that other web browsers don’t have a chance. So why aren’t people using this same argument with Apple and Safari? Sure, they’re not bundling it, but that isn’t really the point – the point is if a browser is included with the OS, then many users will be more inclined to stick with that one. Just because you can’t install IE doesn’t change the argument.
Also, people will say that Netscape was killed because MS started including IE with the OS, even though technically IE has been included with the OS since Win95 OSR1.
Just because you can’t uninstall IE doesn’t change the argument.
No they won’t, we are not the regular user, ppl who read sites like OSNews do know how to find another browser and even know how to install it, but the majority of ppl just know how to click the blue “e” icon on their desktop. They don’t know how to install something else and then effectively use it properly, unless someone else do it for them. And since everybody alse is using it, they’re familiar with it, try switching a complete newbie who doesn’t even know when to double click or single click when he’s used to the IE/OE combo. He’ll have an incredible difficult time switching and will most likely give up (I saw it happen).
No they won’t, we are not the regular user, ppl who read sites like OSNews do know how to find another browser and even know how to install it, but the majority of ppl just know how to click the blue “e” icon on their desktop. They don’t know how to install something else and then effectively use it properly, unless someone else do it for them. And since everybody alse is using it, they’re familiar with it, try switching a complete newbie who doesn’t even know when to double click or single click when he’s used to the IE/OE combo. He’ll have an incredible difficult time switching and will most likely give up (I saw it happen).
Right, and this is Microsoft’s fault, how? Seems to me that it’s kind of dumb to release an OS without a browser these days – Apple does it as well.
Since all most people can do is click on the blue E, maybe we should have them all switch to Linux
I think – forgive me if I’m wrong – but, I think, that, it means that they are comfortable with IE and don’t feel like changing.
I think – forgive me if I’m wrong – but, I think, that, it means that they are comfortable with IE and don’t feel like changing.
You will be surprised and will think again with this statement. A simple network can dramatically change the event.
They are comfortable enough with IE that they don’t want to sit there and spend their time learning about alternatives, how to install them, security issues (that they should not install just anything), etc. – they can’t be blamed for having a real life. If anyone could possibly make the typical user use alternative browsers then it would probably be the computer vendors pre-installing it, or the more experienced user (like you) installing it when asked to install “the internet” by friends.
Combine that with the fact that some things promised in Firefox do not work all the time (example 1: Tabbed browsing messes up the whole interface in “Kingdom of Loathing”; example 2: a shopping site contained a buggy Javascript that caused Firefox to stop execution because of errors; IE just went on and did *something*. result was that the shop worked in IE but not Firefox). Other alternative browsers have similar problems, such as slightly different interpretation of style sheets.
(BTW Firefox is The Best!)
They are comfortable enough with IE that they don’t want to sit there and spend their time learning about alternatives, how to install them, security issues (that they should not install just anything), etc. – they can’t be blamed for having a real life. If anyone could possibly make the typical user use alternative browsers then it would probably be the computer vendors pre-installing it, or the more experienced user (like you) installing it when asked to install “the internet” by friends.
Unfortunately if a user has trained themselves to just hit the “blue e”, installing Firefox won’t change that. You can remove the icon from the desktop, the quick launch bar, etc. and they’ll go out of their way to hunt it down, or just have another “friend” come by and help them “get the internet back.”
I’ve come to the conclusion that the only way to help those who are really stuck in bad habits promoted by Microsoft is the cold turkey route.
When people ask me for help, or want new computers, unless they absolutely need Windows, it’s Linux (or a Mac if they have the budget) for them. It forces them to relearn and shed a lot of bad habits.
Unfortunately if a user has trained themselves to just hit the “blue e”, installing Firefox won’t change that. You can remove the icon from the desktop, the quick launch bar, etc. and they’ll go out of their way to hunt it down, or just have another “friend” come by and help them “get the internet back.”
So why don’t you set it up so that when they click on the blue E, Firefox comes up. Not that hard reall .. I’ve done it before.
If anyone could possibly make the typical user use alternative browsers then it would probably be the computer vendors pre-installing it, or the more experienced user (like you) installing it when asked to install “the internet” by friends.
I think this sort of thing needs to come from the experienced user. If everyone who uses Firefox and feels passionate about it would install it for at least 2-3 other people (instead of bitching about IE), the userbase would expand pretty quickly. Same for Linux – if you think Linux is all that, then install it for grandma. And if grandma doesn’t want it, then … well, not much you can do about it.
Unfortunately, in the case of IE, this ‘lack of education’ by the masses shows up all over the place. For example, the reason why movie studios keep releasing the same DVD over and over again is because idiots keep double dipping .. buying each one as it comes out. I’ll bet we’ll have Star Wars re-released on DVD at least 5 times before it’s over again. Same with online services laced with DRM .. if people would quit buying the crap, we’d have no more DRM’d music. I know that a lot of people like to moan and complain about Microsoft and other greedy corporations, but the only reason why they exist if because we allow them to exist, because we feel that the conveninence we get from one sort of thing or another is worth the tradeoff of having to take it up the ass for. (Should any sane individual really be paying more than $40 a month for cable service?)
Not to try and extend the whole flame war – but wasn’t the problem that a) IE couldn’t be effectivily uninstalled, and b) That vendors couldn’t easily replace it with something else, both for liscencing and technical reasons.
Regarding the third party vendors – I suspect it’s in their interests to get bought out. How many Microsoft products over the years were orginally purchased from someone else?
@Chris: You’re probably right about the “blue e”… isn’t this a major disadvantage for Linux or other alternatives? I guess they are not allowed to use the same blue e for legal reasons?
@Darius: Yes, probably from the experienced user… vendors will start making software more popular once it has some userbase, but they can’t make the first step (unless the software is unbelievably superior – but then again it probably has a lot of users already).
If anyone knows about the licensing issues I’d be interested… something like the vendors having to agree to IE because the may not install Windoze at all otherwise?
There are AFAIK no technical reasons – you might not be able to uninstall IE but you can effectively replace it… though I don’t know about anything newer than Win2k.
(side note: mankind finds strange ways to limit its own progress…)
Darius: Yes, probably from the experienced user… vendors will start making software more popular once it has some userbase
I have observed that vendors (of all types) generally tend to cater to the lowest common denominator. This is why I can’t find a cordless phone with features such as a white list and distinctive ring.
“Until they get the APIs stablized, Firefox is not ready for prime time.”
ya whatever – guess the rest of the world is wrong and you are right. And what’s with all this stupid IE talk. DEVELOPERS, just design your stuff accordingly. You can’t force anyone to use a specific browser (unless you’re you-know-who). So get over it.
“Until they get the APIs stablized, Firefox is not ready for prime time.”
ya whatever – guess the rest of the world is wrong and you are right
Who exactly is the ‘rest of the world?’ Everytime I have mentioned shit breaking in forums, I have been told ‘just wait for the 1.0 release’, so looks like I’m right afterall.
You can’t force anyone to use a specific browser (unless you’re you-know-who). So get over it.
Right, so how many documented cases do you have of anybody at Microsoft putting a gun to somebody’s head and forcing them to use a specific browser?
you see, the average joe in the street is not like the regular people who hang around this site, who have no lives, like us….
we look at our pcs as an enjoyable hobby, the average person does not. they look at their pcs as tools. tools to let them do their work.
they are not going to waste time looking around for alternatives if there is an adequately functioning program already on their machines.
Microsoft should be condemned for this
Microsoft should also be commended for this..
You just have to see both sides of the coin
People will start using alternatives when alternatives are more convenient than IE. For the average user, Firefox is not as convenient since you have to download and install it first. This is what makes FF inferior to IE, and it will remain inferior unless it is pre-installed on windows machines instead of IE, or comes with killer features that everyone wants and IE doesn’t have. (For me, tabbed browsing was such a killer feature).
http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/