Microsoft announced on Tuesday a program that will pay some transition costs for companies that want to move from Novell’s NetWare operating system onto servers running Windows. Microsoft sees the uncertainty surrounding NetWare’s future as an opportunity to win more customers over to Windows Server 2003. Some Novell customers are concerned that the company’s focus on Linux could result in the abandonment of NetWare.
Microsoft offers goodies to lure Novell customers
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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If Microsoft thinks that offering up to $15,000 to get an IT Manager to switch from NetWare to Windows 2003 they are “smoking something”! Sun and HP have better offers so if you are tempted to switch, switch to something better!
I was at a Novell seminar about a month ago and the message from Novell was that they were dying. They’ve seen the writing on the wall, so they’re looking at other software strategies to pursue, this is where Ximian and Suse come in to it. I work for an IT servicing company, and for the last 2 years I’ve worked there, we’ve been systematically replacing Novell Netware with Windows solutions. Personally I don’t really agree with the strategy, but my company is an MS partner, so..
Netware is envitiably going to disappear from commercial propagation in the next 5 years.
The seminar I went to was basically a show for companies who tend to use MS stuff, to say “here, look, this linux stuff works a charm, we’ve branded this software, its got support and it replaces our own stack nicely”.
Best of luck for novell, I think linux is better off with them as a partner.
And port ASAP all the functionality of Netware to it’s Linux favour.
And make the next version of Netware Linux based.
That is a smart move and can put Novell back on the competivity track.
it was a while back now but I was once told to move all our servers from novell to microsoft. so we spent all this money up grading hardware for the new os, and god was it slow compared with novell on older slower servers. It was like switching from broadband to dialup, so in the end we moved back to Novell
I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not.
There will never be another standalone Netware product, instead, Novell Open Enterprise Server will include Netware and SUSE LINUX along with Nterprise etc.
This basically amounts to EXACTLY what you say they need to do.
I simply don’t think they will be competitive here due to their “both source” line.
People that want Linux really want everything to be Open Source. Novell offers many closed source products. They claim that this will lead to no lock-in, but thats what proprietary software does. They appeal to no one, and are scaring away the only customers they had to start with.
I hardly see how this will “put Novell back on the competitive track”…
>>I hardly see how this will “put Novell back on the competitive track”…
They have no choice if they want to survive. MS has been aggressivly pushing their server product so Novell has no choice but to come up with their own brand of os and server ie. Novell Linux. Apple even knows this which is why they have their own server and server hardware now as well.
Those who stick with Novell will do so because of the support they get from them which is what has made them famous.
People that want Linux really want everything to be Open Source. Novell offers many closed source products. They claim that this will lead to no lock-in, but thats what proprietary software does. They appeal to no one, and are scaring away the only customers they had to start with.
The only thing scaring existing customers right now (in most cases) is the (supposed) abandonment of Netware support. It has nothing to do with Closed Source vs. Open Source outside of the zealot circle (incidentally, this is where most decision makers and CxO’s do NOT reside)
Those who stick with Novell will do so because of the support they get from them which is what has made them famous.
I disagree… Novell got famous because they basically invented file and print services the way we understand them today. The same market Microsoft now pretty much owns.
This is why Novell is dieing today. Microsoft took Novell’s customers because they offered an entire software stack, it just took Novell 10 years to figure that out. Novell is simply doing too little too late.
Don’t get me wrong though, I am happy that Novell will be investing its last millions into Linux. At least this way they might have a part to play in Microsoft’s demise.
That just pisses me off. No offense, but that is ust another example of M$ using their bottomless wallet to furthur their company, and drive up-and-comers (I know Novel has been around a while, but they’ve been in the news more lately) out of business.
IMHO, this is another good example of Anti-trust.
</2 cents>
The only thing scaring existing customers right now (in most cases) is the (supposed) abandonment of Netware support. It has nothing to do with Closed Source vs. Open Source outside of the zealot circle (incidentally, this is where most decision makers and CxO’s do NOT reside)
I am certainly not a zealot. I speak from experience, and have a background in Netware, Windows, Solaris, and Linux administration.
I have talked to decision makers in companies about their computer deployments, and the one word that gets repeated is “lockin”. The industry fears it above everything except maybe security risks. Proprietary software leads to lockin though, and thats why I feel Novell is destined for failure.
Even if you disagree with my opinion however, who do you suppose Novell is targetting if its not companies that are interested in Open Source? Think about that. Novell is one of the main people screaming “lockin” today, but they are guilty of it themselves.
That just pisses me off. No offense, but that is ust another example of M$ using their bottomless wallet to furthur their company, and drive up-and-comers (I know Novel has been around a while, but they’ve been in the news more lately) out of business.
Microsoft recently paid out 1.8 billion dollars in legal fee’s. The fact that they can STILL offer such deals just shows how strong they are today.
I don’t think its right to knock them based on having good business savy.
“Microsoft offers goodies to lure Novell customers.”
No suprise here. Seriously. They are a company and need to churn up revenue just like any business.
“I was at a Novell seminar about a month ago and the message from Novell was that they were dying.”
I seriously doubt a Novell company representative would say this. As a CEO, I would have a problem with any employee that did no control his mouth. Again, it deals with churning up business revenue.
Actually, my personal opinion, from working with it, is that even Novell DOS is even better than Redmond in certain business and educational environments. I am extremely happy to see the company competing again.
Goodies can never replace the numbers on the business bottom line.
When you are paying peoples to use your product it’s a bad sign of quality
Only my two cents.
You call this business savy.
This is just another way MS is being bullish.
If there product was that good they should not have to pay a company to use it.
what they do have is alot of big partner relationships … they will waste all their resources and still have “partners” paying licsence’s … has anyone noticed who are some of the biggest customers of M$: Dell, England, Im sure half of the fortune 500 … ofcourse they have funding … all the friends they have made .. the haves and the have mores
I wasn’t condoning their actions…
I was simply making a point that he perhaps overreacted…
I agree that it marks just how desperate Microsoft is becoming. First the price cuts in Europe, now this.
The fact remains though, it takes a pretty strong company just to be able to pull off such things…
Knock them based on their products by all means, but certainly they didn’t get to where they are today by not having a keen business sense…
This is the most blatant large-scale bribe I’ve ever seen
Novell was technically superior but didn’t offer you GUI tools.
Bad marketing = extinction
They can say hello to Beta while they’re at it.
– Fanboy
What novell is doing is moving all their services that run on netware over to Suse enterprise server 9. (And calling it Open Enterprise server)
It will still have an updated netware kernel but will also have the latest 2.6 Linux kernel from SUSE. Ether way you can keep your exsisting Netware machines and they are still covered under your support contracts and then you can add OES servers running as netware or linux and get all the netware features you need.
Again MS is trying to spread fear. LOL! Instead of showing that they have a better product.
“That just pisses me off. No offense, but that is ust another example of M$ using their bottomless wallet to furthur their company, and drive up-and-comers (I know Novel has been around a while, but they’ve been in the news more lately) out of business.
IMHO, this is another good example of Anti-trust.”
Looks like someone is jelous of Microsoft. I suppose since we have the double standards against Microsoft (how dare they attempt to make a profit! What sort of evil business are they?!) it would be ok for a company like Sun or Apple to offer a similar deal.
I never implied that they were not good business people. It’ just pretty damn lame to have to pay people to use you product. Of course they can “still” offer deals after paying out 1.8 billion dollars in legal fees, when you have a monopoly you have all the money, and therefore all the power.
Monopoly, it’s not just a game Steve, I wanna rule the Fu@#ing world! (Bill)
^_^
I’m sorry but, I do not condone M$’s use of power/money to further their control over the computer OS market.
/rant
Get over it already. It’s called competition. According to the fanboys, windows sucks and so it should fail on its own merit. In the end, this is good for those businesses that were using Netware. IT Managers don’t care if deranged fanboys are crying “But Microsoft is a big bully”.
Unlike what some claim Novell is not a sinking ship. Microsoft has proven this by commenting that Novell is there serious competition on the desktop, workstation and server market. Sure Red Hat had a strong hold in the Linux community before but they let that slip with increased cost and axing their support for a Linux desktop solution for consumers. I know some of you are saying “What about Fedora?” but you should understand Fedora which is free lacks official support from Red Hat which is not a viable solution for most consumers. So then we have Novell which is actually trying to provide an easy to use Linux solution as well as other services for consumers. Though unlike Microsoft Novell hasn’t needed to use FUD tactics to win customers.
Here’s a short list of info from Novell. Sorry but I can’t list everything they offer since it’s to long. I did try to cover related links to counter some FUD being spread.
Novell’s counter to MS “Get the facts” campaign:
http://www.novell.com/linux/truth/
Novell Netware:
http://www.novell.com/products/netware/
Novell Open Enterprise Server:
http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/index.html
Novell cluster services for Netware:
http://www.novell.com/products/clusters/ncs/index.html
Novell iFolder:
http://www.novell.com/products/ifolder/index.html
Linux standards certification:
http://www.novell.com/news/press/pressroom/news_brief/archive/2004/…
Thank you bro! I have always loved Novell! They make great products and they don’t need to put down MS to to make customers and keep them. They just keep putting out good ideas. They need to market better though!
We always had great proprietary directory services, including Microsoft, Sun, and Novell’s. Now Novell’s proprietary directory service sits on top of Linux. Big Deal. Wasn’t interested then, still not interested now. Now give us an open source version of it, then I will take a look into it. Otherwise, it is just more of the same. Novell offered their proprietary directory services before, and noone was interested, I don’t see any difference now.
The only thing scaring existing customers right now (in most cases) is the (supposed) abandonment of Netware support. It has nothing to do with Closed Source vs. Open Source outside of the zealot circle (incidentally, this is where most decision makers and CxO’s do NOT reside)
I am certainly not a zealot. I speak from experience, and have a background in Netware, Windows, Solaris, and Linux administration.
I am not accusing you of being a zealot, however I too speak from experience being in the middle of a company which is making and considering a migration on several fronts and reviewing similar migrations both at the government and corporate level as part of the justification for this migration.
I have talked to decision makers in companies about their computer deployments, and the one word that gets repeated is “lockin”. The industry fears it above everything except maybe security risks. Proprietary software leads to lockin though, and thats why I feel Novell is destined for failure.
Novell’s entire strategy is based on avoiding vendor lock-in (at least right now), but I understand the trepidation many companies have now in the wake of Licensing 6 (just to use one example) and the .NET initiative (which is, of course, a different animal than it was originally proposed but the initiatives springing from that seem to mirror the original strategy) Whether Novell keeps to that strategy or not (and it looks like they are on track to doing that, at least when compared to other commercial Linux vendors) I do not believe that interoperability with different platforms and closed source is mutually exclusive (In fact, Novell seems to be moving towards standardizing on SMB/Samba as opposed to NCP which i’m not sure I entirely agree with.) As you pointed out, companies are looking to moving away from that and Novell would be stupid not to capitalize on this.
Even if you disagree with my opinion however, who do you suppose Novell is targetting if its not companies that are interested in Open Source? Think about that. Novell is one of the main people screaming “lockin” today, but they are guilty of it themselves.
The only example I can think of with Novell Netware preventing compatibility with existing standards is IPX vs. TCP/IP … TCP/IP has been supported by Novell for many years now, dating back to the 3.x days (though Pure IP debuted in Netware 5, which is still dating back to a number of years) NDS/eDirectory has been cross-platform for a number of years as well, and it also supports open standards such as LDAP (in fact, LDAP is the primary access protocol for eDirectory, supplanting NDAP) and closed directories such as Active Directory.
Now …
Are the companies you’re referring to interested in Open Source or are they just not interested in dealing with Microsoft anymore because of draconian licensing?
It depends on the company, of course. Ernie Ball, the company which moved the majority of their desktops to Linux/Openoffice/Evolution in the wake of their BSA audit evaluated many other solutions (mostly proprietary) before settling on Linux and Openoffice. I think it’s safe to say ‘Open Source’ didn’t have much to do with their decision to go that route and their CEO indicated that they would have still used Windows had that audit not occurred. Our company is migrating because of licensing concerns. The Open Source argument only played a factor when evaluating a CMS and platform for our emerging intranet (for obvious reasons)
I speak to a number of old-school Novell customers on a daily basis and they seem to be concerned about lack of support for Netware and not so much its Open Source strategy… which is understandable; nobody wants to be pushed into a migration until they are ready.
Jim
I doubt that Netware is going anywhere. What I do think that we will see is Netware running as a service atop Linux, which might actually make things easier for Novell in some regards.
Novell was technically superior but didn’t offer you GUI tools.
nwadmn32.exe
We always had great proprietary directory services, including Microsoft, Sun, and Novell’s. Now Novell’s proprietary directory service sits on top of Linux. Big Deal. Wasn’t interested then, still not interested now. Now give us an open source version of it, then I will take a look into it. Otherwise, it is just more of the same. Novell offered their proprietary directory services before, and noone was interested, I don’t see any difference now.
Nobody was interested except CNN and the french government, apparently.
By the way, directory services are a big deal when you have to manage a large, distributed network. I can guarantee anyone who has had to manage the bindery, individual servers and domains will notice the difference immediately.
On linux your choices for Directory Services (minus OpenLDAP and Ganymede which do not even come close to what eDir can do) are rather slim. eDirectory on Linux is not a recent development, by the way.
“Looks like someone is jelous of Microsoft. I suppose since we have the double standards against Microsoft (how dare they attempt to make a profit! What sort of evil business are they?!) it would be ok for a company like Sun or Apple to offer a similar deal.”
Actually, legally speaking, it would be different. Actions by the incumbent monopolist in a market are judged differently from actions by others.
Yes, it’s great for IT managers…UNTIL Microsoft’s tactics succeed and it wipes out all competition through such methods. At which point, your choices are Microsoft, Microsoft or Microsoft. How long do you think the bribes and good license terms are going to last after that?
This is why we have anti-monopoly legislation in the first place. This is a classic pattern of monopolistic behaviour which succeeds because, classically, businesses prioritise short-term economic interests. This is why the tactics succeed, and it’s known and historically proven that, in the long-term, it works out worst for everybody except the monopolist.
Not allowing Microsoft to be competitive is anti-trust, isn’t it? By sicking the state on MS, is anyone better off? Isn’t using government against one corporation (which is always at the request, and to the beneifit fo their competitors) just a “legal” way of creating new monopolies by way of market interference?
Remember, any government powerful enough to give you everything you want is also powerful enough to take everything you have away.
Nothing in politics is for the benfit of “the greater good”, rather it is to the benefit of those willing to pay the highest bid to cut everyone else’s throats.
I’d like to see Novell move more into the Home Network Server market, and lay the groundwork for people being able to serve up webpages from their own computer, in addition to being able to offer email, ftp, and other services including broadcasting (video and audio). The market is potentially bigger than the current business market. It would of course work best with dedicated lines or static IPs; but it might be something they could take a look at, if they face waning sales on that front.
Such a package would make a nice companion to SUSE, either included with it or sold separately.
–EyeAm
http://s87767106.onlinehome.us
I believe all those services you are asking about are included with SuSE Linux Professional. http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/
Or Microsoft could just pay all the licensing fees for the users.
It’s OK to give away software and charge for support but God help you if you try to charge for software and give away a small, limited amount of support. That couldn’t be at all hypocritical could it?