The operating system family that powers the lion’s share of servers is losing ground to Windows and Linux. Unix is losing so much ground that IT research firm IDC is predicting Windows will take over as the dominant server operating system by the year 2008.
Unix Still (Kind of) Holding Its Own
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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I don’t think Unix will be in such big trouble as IDC claims… it’s still superior, and many recon superiority is a good thing.
Duh!
… if that happens, I will stop to work with computers and I will sell potatoes…
Note, when IDC talk about market share what they really mean is share of revenue.
They explicitly state that often the largest cost of running Linux is keeping your staff up to date, then go on to detail *factory revenue*.
Is this a sound basis for trumpeting Windows commanding lead of the server market?
US Air Force decided to use Windows everywhere (+Dell computers)…
Well, that’s not very odd. Linux more or less is Unix.
The rise of UNIX in the early 80s has almost entirely to do with economics and hardware — and the two are inextricably linked. It has almost nothing to do with “open systems” or any of the ex-post-facto justifications or explanations that have circulated.
But why did all those aggressive little start-up vendors go after UNIX? Well, in fact, they didn’t: Apollo is a notable exception. But most start-ups relied on UNIX ports. Why? This doesn’t have anything to do with any intrinsic virtue in UNIX — rather, it’s purely economic. For a relatively small piece of change ($20K or so) you could buy a complete working operating system, with source. That’s nothing compared to the expense and time of developing an operating system from scratch.
Where does that lead us, then? My big point is that hardware and applications drive the market; users are going to buy the best hardware at the lowest price on which they can run their important applications. I don’t think there’s any inherent loyalty to UNIX, much less to “openness,” or to anything aside from getting more done for less cost.
Licensing fees may have killed the goose that layed the golden egg, but the goose was probably dying anyway. Or at least sick. And yes: there are still some very low-cost UNIX (or UNIX-like) systems that a new startup could use (BSDI, 386BSD, AT&T-free BSD 4.4, Linux). Whether or not these will mean anything commercially remains to be seen.
UNIX grew because it ran on great hardware, it had a central role in universities, and it had an evolutionary path. With the demise of small computer vendors, the hardware factor has disappeared; if Microsoft plays its educational cards right, the University factor will disappear. So the big issue for the future is evolution: will a new evolutionary path emerge that allows UNIX to integrate new developments in a more-or-less uniform way? That’s what I’m waiting to see.
IDC is notoriously bad with their forecasts and surprisingly the majority of their forcasts look generally way too optimistic in relation M$ and Intel — just look at IDC’s forcasts in relation to Itanic shipments, they predicted shipments 10 times the number Intel ended up shipping — even my dog could probably produce a better prediction. If anything, from now on it is a downward spiral for Windows, I seriously doubt Windows server market share will be increasing — Windows has got the worst security reputation it ever had and Linux can readily replace Windows in pretty much any placement. It looks like the market is finally coming to realization that M$ can never deliver on its promisses and that Windows is nothing more than a virus infested bug ridden hairball — it is a downward spiral for Windows now.
IDC licks the *ss of who ever pays more.. Just like gartner.
“Research firm IDC in 2000 predicted that Itanium server sales would hit $28 billion by 2004. In 2001, IDC predicted sales of $15 billion by 2005, and lowered its forecast later that year to about $12.5 billion. Now, the forecast is for $7.5 billion in 2007, according to CNet.”
Why is it that Unix and Linux are seen as different? Why is it that a journalist can get away with quoting a suit saying ‘the 2.6 linux operating system’?
Sigh.
That said, people will continue to use what ever piece of junk gets the job done. If we’ve learnt anything over the past 30 years of IT ‘innovation’ it’s that any techology will suck for any amount of reasons. Unix has been around for so long simply because it sucks consistently and predictably.
Besides, i think Monkey Doodle is right on the money. In the vast amority of cases short-term economics sells IT, not technological ‘excellence’.
Do you know ANY forecasts that predict computer future in 4(!) years that proved to be accurate? I don’t.
Good Point Man
Linux Distro’s are Unix simulators. RedHat is not Unix. Debian is not Unix. SuSe is not Unix. On the otherhand, things that came from Unix are Unix. Solaris is Unix. FreeBSD is Unix. And the difference really isn’t a semantics one, when you start using Linux and Unix extensivelly, you will see that there is a big difference in mindset.
But some people will never understand this. Just the fact that people want the “GNU tools” to be ported as the default for Solaris and FreeBSD shows that they just don’t get Unix.
“Do you know ANY forecasts that predict computer future in 4(!) years that proved to be accurate? I don’t.”
Ray Kurzweil in his book The age of intelligent machines had a number of predictions (came out 1990) about where computing is headed for the 90s and he was more or less on target.
His second book The age of spiritual machines is about this century and to early to call if he is right or not. But everything seems to be heading in that direction.
For those of you that insist on spelling ‘MS’ with a ‘$’, you need to read this and take a look at yourselves:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-11-03
Can we PLEASE not have all these kneejerk comments? 🙂
” if that happens, I will stop to work with computers and I will sell potatoes…”
And I will stop working with computers, and grow those potatoes…
[evil]
Yeah right! In 2k8 all servers will run Windows with hughe virus-definitions and Hijack_this as most important application. Funny joke that is.. 🙂
[/evil]
Oh, also very funny is the Linux-hype-thing. Windows against Linux, Linux against Windows and no one talks about FreeBSD NetBSD or OpenBSD.
I even don’t hear talking people about Darwin, the underlying system of MacOSX. And no Darwin is not completely derived from FreeBSD, like many people think. The BSD’s have a monolithic kernel while Darwin uses the MACH kernel, which is a hybrid kernel.
People who say that UNIX is dying are talking crap. People who use Windows servers are mostly afraid of the CLI (Command Line Interface) and never have used a UNIX-like OS themselves.
[evil]
Yeah nice!! After every tiny update a reboot. A GUI that eats all your CPU and memory. Yeah, great fun to logon via VPN and telnet to remove a bootsector virus.
[/evil]
But in the end I am very glad my favorite OS-es (FreeBSD/NetBSD) are not a hype. Virus-writers go for fame and fortune so they will attack the biggest group.
[evil]
Also, I work @ an ISP and people that say Windows is userfriendly I invite to do my job for one day. At the end of the day I will ask the same question again and I’m quitte sure nobody will ever say Windows is for the average user and is userfriendly. In fact: the average user does not exist. Not _everyone_ is able to handle computers, trust me.
[/evil]
So, for you UNIX cretins out there, I say your OS is already dying from the inside out. I’ll live to see it vanish into obscurity…all I have to do is wait and do nothing.
Do nothing.. Yeah that _exactly_ shows how people flame without doing anything. Most people that are such a Microsoft-fan does not support this company by _buying_ the OS.
So in other words.. Most people these days are lazy and hypocrite. And another thing mister FreeBSD-hater.. Have you ever talked with developers? Did you ever _do_ a thing to make a change somewhere/somehow? And by the way why do you think Microsoft still runs some services on FreeBSD?
“For those of you that insist on spelling ‘MS’ with a ‘$’, you need to read this and take a look at yourselves:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-11-03
Can we PLEASE not have all these kneejerk comments? :-)”
That was the best penny arcade I have ever read, I am still laughing.
Actually for the company I work for, usually when we install a Windows server it is because the guys writing the code that run on it are Windows developers.
So the reason is has more to do with Visual Studio.NET. Admit it or not, VS is pretty thurough.
I work in a mixed environment of Solaris, Linux, and Windows servers. I can’t honestly say that the Windows boxes don’t pull their weight.
Most of our admins prefer Solaris to Linux (even as a workstation), but many of the new servers we install are Dell/Red Hat boxes because it is difficult to beat in price performance.
How is it that using Windows on a server does not make sense but using Linux on the desktop does? Do I smell a double standard fueled by fan boy thought process? I believe so.
One of the more ignorant posts I have read in this thread. Can the people without a clue just rather not type anything? An opinion isn’t valid because you spout it with zero knowledge in said field.
Having said that, your reasoning is completely off. I tack it up to inexperience on your part. Large datacenters and organizations dealing with millions and tens of millions of customers still use ‘unix’ systems. Many are slowly switching to cheaper alternatives like Linux because maintenance and hardware is cheaper, and they can migrate while keeping the same level of *reliability* both in software and hardware.
Signed, Unix cretin.
The problem with this write-up, like many others, is that it fails to define market share. The reporter talks about revenue and server shipments, so that would seem to include hardware revenue.
What makes a hardware purchase count as a Linux server? Is he counting only preinstalled OS’s? Particularly with servers, does anyone actually run what was preinstalled (if any), or do most sysadmins install from scratch for complete control?
I haven’t looked for any, but I don’t recall any vendors who preinstall FreeBSD. But it’s clearly popular for servers.
I don’t think that this report splits out total OS license revenue, which may be of some interest. Even if it did, market share is pretty meaningless in a market where only Microsoft sells software and everyone else gives it away and charges for support. What’s Microsoft’s market share for support revenue?
Consider which web sites that you view most often, and what share of your subscription fees each gets. Are the sites that you don’t pay for worthless? Is subscription revenue market share a useful guide to importance or popularity?
Well, that would be because Linux can be a very good desktop OS and Windows isn’t a very good server OS. Questions?
just kidding, right????
The desktop we refer speaking about GNU/linux is not the generic home desktop, rather a corporate one, where only a well defined set of applications is used, allowing the possibility of a easy deployment with one of the major distributions.
Home desktop, especially for someone who buys XYZ magazine with a generic PC program and complains that “Linux does not work with it” is still away.
Having said so, if you explain clearly what is the term “compatibility”, even granny can annoy the newspaper shop
demanding “Linux compatible” little shining disks…
I’d rather extract my own spleen with a plastic spoon than have to admin Windows servers… with Microsoft, all they care about is lock-in. At least with UNIX, you have an open standard that gives you FAR more choice and flexibility. Thankfully, the department where I work is all Linux and Solaris in the server room.
The fact that the security in Windows is abysmal, coupled with the fact that Windows is far from being reliable, in addition to the fact that many Windows admins are clueless compared to their UNIX counterparts, it seriously causes me to question why anyone would want Windows in the server room. Cut through the corporate propaganda, and I just honestly don’t see how Windows can measure up as an enterprise class server operating system. It isn’t even close.
The other big weakness of Windows, is that you can’t even get a non-commercial license to play with their stuff at home on a home network. You can even get Solaris binaries for free this way, let alone Linux and BSD which is free in pretty much every sense. At work, we do have people who run Windows servers at home, but they are all of them pirates, and none of them paid for it.
Said it before; while there are differences in the *nix, they are all very similar. If the source is available, nearly every program can be ported easily.
That propriatory (capital U) Unix is losing ground and one or more of the other (lowercase u) unix are doing well doesn’t surprise me one bit. In most cases, unix is quite a nice replacement for Unix…though not in every case.
What I’m interested in is the entirely or mostly Posix compatable systems (the total Unix + unix number) compared to other systems.
Come to think of it, the other systems mostly include Windows, some embedded systems like PalmOS, and some legacy operating systems like MacOS (pre-OSX). Nearly everything else is either unix or Unix — both closed and open source in parts or in whole.
Well if you are going to define unix by “Posix compatible” that you can count Windows also. Linux is not UNIX, not unless you work for SCO.
Windows, Unix, & Linux will always be around. Windows is becoming a bloated security nightmare (mainly due to unpatched security holes in Internet Exploder (aka IE)):
http://isc.sans.org//diary.php?date=2004-11-20&isc=92f18f13058ae9e3…
FreeBSD continues to live and evolve very nicely. BSD has a very loyal following in the web hosting arena, I don’t foresee that changing anytime soon, in fact all trends have its presense gaining some good numbers:
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/06/07/nearly_25_million_acti…
Well managed & implimented, BSD can turn out some staggering uptimes:
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html
Interesting that I don’t see a Linux system on the above list anywhere??? In all fairness, don’t see a Solaris or Windows box either 😉
Linux is falling apart due to it’s religious nature amongst most of it’s most vocal. Full time job just to track all the distributions popping up and fading away. User interface hell, dependencey hell, and now there’s talk of forking the kernel (can you say fragmentation in the works).
http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/11/17/HNlinuxfork_1.html
What you don’t read about is all the folks that have tried Linux in the enterprise and are switching back off of Linux (unless they got themselves all nice and locked in with their vendor) when it doesn’t add up to half the hype.
A lot of things that Linux takes credit for are taken from the backs of Solaris and BSD statistics. Many folks seem to think Apache stat’s equal Linux installations, far from true, but a common myth out there. Many folks think Linux = open source, wrong again. A good arguement could be made that BSD has one of the most “open” licensing available, definitely more “open” and less restrictive than the GPL.
Till Linux can get some focus and get Linus & IBM to take a chill pill on the control factor, things are not going to get much better. The Linux scene is just too unpredictable for a lot of CIO’s out there that look behind hype.
Now we have Solaris 10 about to hit and appears to be the continuation of arguably the most advanced UNIX operating system out there. While Sun has always had trouble executing even when it had a technically superior product, I tend to think they are betting the house on Solaris 10. I personally know of a major client that is in the midst of switching several key Linux based database servers over to Solaris 10 for stability, performance, scaleability, and to bring the “linux box sprawl” under control in the machine room. Sun, while still floundering a bit, seems to be gettings it’s running legs back on and already scoring some big wins with Solaris 10 even before it’s fully available.
Agree or not, mark these words:
“It’s not going to be just a Windows vs Linux world, it’s going to be a Windows vs Linux vs Solaris” world within a couple years.”
Yeah, I know Linux is the kernel. Linux is a UNIX work alike, but not UNIX.
Yeah, I know the only ‘real’ UNIX in the purest definition would be AT&T’s UNIX (long gone). BSD’s and Solaris picked up reigns and are probably the closest thing to a pure UNIX os anymore. Can argue the semantics all you want, facts are just that, darn facts.
Yeah, I know about SCO Unix (oops), HP-UX, and AIX, but all three of those are as good as dead, the writing is on the wall and etched in pretty deep as these folks behind those os’es jump on the “anything but Windows” bandwagon in the NIX world.
No, I do not work for Sun. I use whatever OS is best for the situation, I regularly deal with Windows, Linux, AIX, BSD, and Solaris environments. I’ll admit, for most of my customers when all the hype is boiled out, it’s typically a Windows versus BSD/Solaris question with the occassional RHEL installation coming along (usually do to internal pressures to “go linux” at the expense of facts and real world benchmarks for what they are doing). From my view of things (doesn’t mean my view is right 100%) the Linux surge peaked around the end of 2002. Solaris 9 was very compelling choice for a lot of my customers, Solaris 10 is almost a no brainer when an honest comparision of technical, support, service, security, and real performance merits are evaluated with an open mind. I see it time and time again.
Sorry Linux guys, forget Redmond, better start keeping an eye on those guys out in Mountain View CA that were legends in the UNIX world back when Linus was still in diapers.
Sun’s upcoming Niagra CPU = 32 hardware threads at about 50 watts. Chew on that innovation for a bit, especially from a server room perspective.
Think Solaris 10 is bull#@@@, better think again:
http://cio.co.nz/cio.nsf/0/1E80897A935485D1CC256F4D00755581?OpenDoc…
http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/story/0,10801,97516,…
Whether or not Sun’s open source plans work out or not, Solaris 10 just raised the bar several notches in the ‘NIX world….and if you’re truly for an “open” world full of more than one or two OS choices, that can only be good news!
Flame all you want, we’ll see where things in the ‘NIX world stand in a couple years….going to be one interesting ride I bet 😉
JT
No. You’re wrong. Linux may be Desktop. Because I can put some X manager and make it work. I can get KDE/Gnome for users that dislike *NIX feeling. I can put Fluxbox/ION for developers. At the end I can leave all GUI env. and bring services only. I can make it headless, or even install it headless. That’s why Linux can be desktop OS while Windows can not leave desktop OS mode, even when they act like server. GNU/Linux was developed as a server/developer OS. Few years it got rapid development in Desktop area. Windows can’t go back to be CLI driven server OS.
I see Solaris gaining ground because people are afraid of being sued. I also see microsoft’s scare tactics scaring people into the solaris camp because of indemnification. (We are not talking just about SCO now, there are other patents and IP that microsoft “swears” is illegal…that is why i find the whole .net on linux funny…but thats another subject). I see Open Solaris gaining massive ground Because Sun will be giving away what Microsoft charges 500+ bucks for; an full featured OS, a Desktop (Java Desktop is free with Solaris now), and an Office Suite (StarOffice aka OpenOffice is a Sun project, never forget that). and Because most GPL/LGPL/FSF software can be recompiled onto solaris (if it hasnt been already), most people will feel right at home.
Just my 0010 cents
The British appear to be using Windows on their new battleships
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/05/mod_oks_win2k_warships/
It seems a little ironic that in the Terminator movies the machines almost killed humanity because they were too smart. Now it seems that it will be because they are too stupid. I guess Skynet will be running Windows as well.
totaly false in the two paralell stable kernels (most commersial distros use a patched kernel to some degree or other anyways). the talk was about getting ready for the 2.7 series of development so that the 2.6 series could finaly go into features freeze (outside of what the distros add) and stabelize more. remeber that there have been 2.5, 2.3 and 2.1 before (and more of those to) where all of them have been used a development platforms for the 2.6, 2.4 and 2.2. the rumor is just bad writing by some osnews editor.
I remember 10 years ago, when I started managing *nix boxen, listening to pundits wax excited about the death of Unix and the world dominance of windows. I’m still waiting for this to happen. There sure are a lot of Windows machines doing important things like rendering Quake cartoons, spreading viruses, worms and other Internet nastiness. But when you need stability and scalability (and an infinite number of tools that allow you to put together those final hour solutions), give me a ksh prompt and leave me alone.
in the company where i worked (big oil co), almost all the reservoir simulation and geophysics work was done in expensive sun, sgi and ibm equipment because there weren’t windows ports of most of those applications. Once windows ports were available, almost all those machines were replaced with windows workstations and servers and this migration extended to the rest of the production systems, except the very high end sun kit and ibm mainframes. They DID try linux for some systems but in the end it was always cheaper and just as good for 90% of the systems to go with windows. And this same trend repeats in most of the oil industry.
The article is correct, if Microsoft can deliver. And GNU/Linux rests on its laurels, and does little innovation, in terms of user friendliness.
To a modern “factory administrator” there may be no reason to run UNIX (AIX, Solaris) or any UNIX like systems (GNU/Linux, BSD’s), especially with the progression of Window’s server system’s.
Microsoft promises to deliver their Longhorn servers, and their HPC platform. You do not need to pay for updates, you can use the free Windows Update. Reliability, stability and performance are not big issues, when you have a user friendly, easy to use operating system enviroment, and is also stable and reliable, and has good performance — to a degree.
If the economy continues for a downturn indefinatly, and outsourcing continues. There will be little need for qualified UNIX like system administrators, on average servers. Instead the market and industry will be flooded with D level high school students, who go to their local Technical College (ITT Tech, DeVry); and get a MSCE/CNNA. Who do not expect to earn more than 50 grand.
These people have little or no recollection of UNIX’s past, and probably have no love for good engineering or technical prowess, and will be ignorant to the ways of UNIX. Naturally there would be no reason for them to use an un-userfriendly UNIX server.
My company has a same situation as yours.
Linux is Unix. And (Free|Open|Net)BSD is also doing fine job replacing the older Unix OS’s. And it’s only making them stronger since there is fair competition and lots of coorperation.
Don’t ask the Ford dealer his opinion about Opels. You won’t get a straight answer.
Anyway, the only thing we learn from post like this is how m$ is attempting to keep in bussiness by spreading twisted views and how to debunk them.
By Jeff (IP: —.fuse.net) –
I totally agree with you, very well explained!
regards,
jay
I’m going to start off my comment by saying I’m not a linux or a windows fanboy, I happen to run linux but I’m a lover of technology at heart and where I find the best technology is what I use.
First of all, Solaris 10 is nice but it’s not open. Sun says yeah yeah yeah soon. I see a lot of sun lovers spouting things about how solaris is going to be open. That’s wonderful but it’s all just lip service at this point. We don’t really know what sun is up to and until they follow through on their promise, I don’t want to hear how open solaris is until I can download the source and make source level changes to a system.
To the windows lovers, I want to say that I think windows an adequate desktop OS. For anyone to predict that Windows is the future in regards to servers is foolish. Windows has the features on the desktop but is playing catchup all the time to unix/linux on the server. IIS6 finally uses a human readable XML config file. MS is finally admitting the command line might actually be useful on a server. MS FINALLY got in on the virtualization bandwagon. I can’t think of ANY server technology that microsoft has been first to market with. Microsoft has good developer tools and that’s about all I can say.
Linux IMNSHO is the future. NT might be running on new ships in the Navy but I know for a fact that missle guidance systems, radar systems, target aquisition systems, and missle defense systems are running either VxWorks or linux with newer systems moving towards linux where possible. NT is fine for moving a boat around in the ocean while nix and vxWorks are warning you of incomming missles on the horizon and guiding that massive warhead that needs to hit withing 10 meters of where I tell it to to avoid massive loss of civilian life. Why don’t missles run NT?
All I can say that it’s all a bunch of crap payied for by microsoft. We’ll see… Who really cares do? Right…
and now there’s talk of forking the kernel (can you say fragmentation in the works).
That’s a fork off the stable version for a development version you absolute twit. It’s not a fork of the project itself.
What you don’t read about is all the folks that have tried Linux in the enterprise and are switching back off of Linux (unless they got themselves all nice and locked in with their vendor) when it doesn’t add up to half the hype.
Considering that BSD does the same things and runs pretty much the same software as a Linux system that, invalidates your whole argument. If you’re using UNIX or BSD then you can use Linux. Why is Linux making all the running?
I think those two nuggets mean that your comments can be taken with more than just a pinch of salt.
linux can drink unix under the table any day!
I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve decided that hate all operating systems, license models, and organizations (for profit or not) that develop operating systems. I just hate some a little more than others. If only I could find an operating system that could do everything I wanted, right out of the box (besides Windows).
I’m 27 now and probalby like most people, I grew up on Microsoft software starting at about DOS 4.0. I first installed Linux around 1998 and then got into FreeBSD, and more recently have been buying up old Sun Ultra workstations.
As much as I try to fight it (and hide it) I’m definately a Windows expert. I also hate Windows the most for various reaons, but mostly because I have to spend over $100 to buy anti-virus, anti-spyware, and firewalls for it before I feel halfway secure working on all my semi-valuable data on it.
The more I learn about Linux, BSD’s, and Solaris, the more I hate them too. As servers they’re great, but for every day desktop use they all piss me off for various reasons.
I can’t seem to get Java working on FreeBSD without spending two days farting around with it.
I can’t seem to find a Linux distribution that’s easy to find help on, easy to find packages/ports for, and that doesn’t take two weeks to configure after the installation (though Fedore Core 3 has been pretty painless so far).
I can’t get Gnome 2.8 to work on Solaris without spending a lifetime compiling it myself (so far, blastwave.org only has gnome 2.6).
The more I hate computers, the more I am determined to not let them beat me. Sort of makes me wish I would’ve chosen a career in finance instead of friggin’ IT sometimes… but I just can’t give up!
Now I love Windows, hell I wouldn’t want to replace it as my main desktop OS, but I wouldn’t trust it enough to put in a server. Reliability is required for a server os and Unix and linux delivers that in spades.
Jeff I agree with most of what you said but Dave is right about the forking of the kernel not exactly being a fork. lot of folk reading too much into that story. distribution wise linux has already fragmented badly. hopefully the Linux Standards Base will help if not too little to late in the minds of many. rest of your comments are good food for thought. of course it will irk a few folks too.
The rest of what Dave said in his reply makes about zero sense. started off okay till ‘twit’ and then lost his credibility quickly thereafter. about like the guys saying ‘linux is unix’ and loosing their credibility in only those 3 words. looks like your comment about linux users switching back got his hackles raised followed by a bunch of giberish.
“I think those two nuggets mean that your comments can be taken with more than just a pinch of salt.”
sounds like he just gave you credibility. typical kneejerk reaction of a typical linux zealot, always easy to call someone a twit, attack their credibility, but never dispute their statements with any facts. oh well, somethings never change on here.
I just retired from a DOD position last year, Solaris is all over the place in the defense department. I know of many hypercritical defense systems that linux is not allowed to be used for. guess what is being used? Solaris!
full disclosure – I am a BSD guy! Solaris is basically a commercialized version of good ol’ BSD so I can live Solaris, linux is such a discombobulated hodgepodge I can not stand it.
BTW I think I know who you are if you are up near Cincy JT, if so Dave has no clue of your credentials! DNR
I’d have to agree that Unix is losing ground to Windows/Linux. Where I work we have recently phased out the last of our OpenVMS systems and moved out the remains of our VAX (used for recovering old backups and some accounting software). While we still have some Solaris systems and and SCO box, we’ve been pushed by our budget to move to Linux for almost everything we can.
Money is Unix’s biggest enemy, the best webserver we ever had was a Solaris box, but the fact that you can take one of your new lab machine purchases (I work for a school) throw in a raid controller, a couple of disks and a gig of ram, and have a very competitive machine (relatively) for about $1500 really throws a kink in Unix’s works.
http://home.scarlet.be/%7Eloppedem/spyware.jpg
Everyone knows UNIX is a standard, and in order to be called UNIX, you must pay money to the Open Group and conform to the Single Unix Specification, a new version being posted every few years — largely based on the POSIX standards.
Technically IBM’s OS/390, having no UNIX lineage, is UNIX, and FreeBSD is not. Technically saying freebsd is UNIX, is no more true than saying GNU/Linux is UNIX.
Everyone knows unix is dieing, and its legacy is being lived on by primarily GNU/Linux and the bsd’s. This point is apparent in the fact that solaris (UNIX), hp-ux(UNIX), sco (UNIX) and aix (UNIX), and freebsd (not UNIX though it has legacy); have either a binary emulator, or another form of functionality to achieve GNU/Linux compatibility, the reverse is not true.
Amazing considering Linux is just a discombobulated hodgepodge.
GNU/Linux is soon becoming the de facto standard for UNIX like systems, especially with the legitimacy of the LSB.
I wonder how long it will be until Solaris proclaims itself LSB compatible, or Redhat and SUSE GNU/Linux distributions seek UNIX certification.
Well if you are going to define unix by “Posix compatible” that you can count Windows also. Linux is not UNIX, not unless you work for SCO.
Jim, I covered that. Please go back and read what I wrote.
Do you know ANY forecasts that predict computer future in 4(!) years that proved to be accurate? I don’t.
Exactly! If you want a real laugh, go to a used book store or Amazon and see if you can find the 70’s block buster Future Shock (Alvin Toffler).
The book became quickly out of date…yet, people for years were saying he was spot on. He was laughably off base.
For those of you that insist on spelling ‘MS’ with a ‘$’, you need to read this and take a look at yourselves:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-11-03
Can we PLEASE not have all these kneejerk comments? 🙂
No doubt. Anyone who does this should STOP.
I used to read comments with these types of intentional mistakes and found that the speaker seldom had anything interesting to say. They feel abused in some way by Microsoft and just wanted to complain about it. Join the club; you’re not special.
These folks don’t make anyone look good by using $ or spelling Microsoft in an unusual way. They just look stupid.
Unfortunately, since I do like and prefer Solaris/*BSD/OSX/Linux and other unix-style systems, I often get lumped into the same category as these creative spellers. VERY ANNOYING.
I see Solaris gaining ground because people are afraid of being sued. I also see microsoft’s scare tactics scaring people into the solaris camp because of indemnification.
You can get that coverage with Linux. Just buy SuSE or Red Hat Enterprise and they will cover you and usually better than many other OS manufacturers.
That said, the coverage isn’t worth much — from any of them.
I see Open Solaris gaining massive ground Because Sun will be giving away what Microsoft charges 500+ bucks for; an full featured OS, a Desktop (Java Desktop is free with Solaris now), and an Office Suite (StarOffice aka OpenOffice is a Sun project, never forget that). and Because most GPL/LGPL/FSF software can be recompiled onto solaris (if it hasnt been already), most people will feel right at home.
Agreed. Open Solaris on it’s own merits should kick all kinds of keister.
That said, I have no problem using any of the *nix systems out there though some are better at different tasks. (OK — except HPUX. Not a fan of that. While I can use it, I prefer any other *nix to it. Since it is tied to the hardware, and the hardware is often there by the time I show up, that’s usually not an option.)
Your title is misleading. Linux already IS the most dominate *nix. It has been dominate for years. Choice, though, is good.
They are doing the ‘divide and make it look worse’ to play up the numbers in M$’s favour.
Linux is basically 100% POSIX, and it runs the SAME software as all the other Unices do. You can transfer config files from Solaris Apache and Samba to Linux and it all works almost the same. From this point of view, Linux and UNIX really are not birds of a different feather.
Combining the numbers for Linux and Unix make the picture go the other way (48.0% -> 46.8), still way ahead of windows projected at 38.4%
Unix-like systems are dying my foot….
The post is actually quite funny, I don’t think that people loving Unix (I like BSD and FreeBSD in particular) should get offended. Let the lame GNU/Linux/Windows fans make their hateful comments about market share and religious/political wars, that will only help redirecting competent people elsewhere – i.e., in the BSD world.
Since I’m a developer I know a lot of sysadmins, and the truly good ones (as always) are a strict minority. That’s why the choice of the majority doesn’t reflect quality, but simply user-friendliness.
Oh, and just for the record:
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/07/12/nearly_2_million_activ…
“FreeBSD is the only other operating system [besides windows and linux] that is gaining, rather than losing share of the active sites found by the Web Server Survey.”
It means that even if the numbers aren’t as big as windows/linux, quality and reliability are indeed appreciated.
So FreeBSD is getting more user friendly?
I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve decided that hate all operating systems, license models, and organizations (for profit or not) that develop operating systems. I just hate some a little more than others. If only I could find an operating system that could do everything I wanted, right out of the box (besides Windows).
Yeah the mentality of these days is being lazy. Oh no! I have to _do_ something..
I can’t seem to get Java working on FreeBSD without spending two days farting around with it.
That’s your problem. Not a FreeBSD problem.
#
# Download j2sdk-x_x_x-src-scsl.zip and j2sdk-x_x_x-bin-scsl.zip to /usr/ports/distfiles/
# Download j2sdk-x_x_x_xx-linux-i586.bin to /usr/ports/distfiles/
# Download bsd-jdk14-patches-x.tar.gz to /usr/ports/distfiles/
#
kldload linprocfs
mount -t linprocfs linprocfs /compat/linux/proc
cd /usr/ports/java/jdk14 && make install clean
ln -s /usr/local/jdkx.x.x/jre/plugin/i386/ns610/libjavaplugin_oji.so
/usr/X11R6/lib/mozilla/plugins/libjavaplugin_oji.so
This is all you need to do to get it work.
I can’t seem to find a Linux distribution that’s easy to find help on, easy to find packages/ports for, and that doesn’t take two weeks to configure after the installation (though Fedore Core 3 has been pretty painless so far).
There’s Xandros for lazy people that don’t want to learn.
I can’t get Gnome 2.8 to work on Solaris without spending a lifetime compiling it myself (so far, blastwave.org only has gnome 2.6).
Again. Computers are not meant for lazy people. The other fact is that on FreeBSD is not very much true:
setenv PACKAGESITE http://www.marcuscom.com/tb/packages/5.3-MarcusCom/Latest/
pkg_add -rv gnome2
And that’s all!!
The more I hate computers, the more I am determined to not let them beat me. Sort of makes me wish I would’ve chosen a career in finance instead of friggin’ IT sometimes… but I just can’t give up!
Yeah find another career. Computers are nothing for you. 😉
GNU/Linux is soon becoming the de facto standard for UNIX like systems, especially with the legitimacy of the LSB.
You really think BSD folks like me want to go back to Linux? That’s how it feels; going back!!
So FreeBSD is getting more user friendly?
Yeah like Microsoft Outlook Express for example..
0x800CCC0E FAILED_TO_CONNECT Cannot connect to server.
_Very_ userfriendly that is..
You really think BSD folks like me want to go back to Linux? That’s how it feels; going back!!
I used FreeBSD because of its ports system. I used dial-up and wanted to be able to update packages easily. Though I went back to GNU/Linux, specifically Gentoo; which also has the same functionality.
FreeBSD was the UNIX like system for me at the time, however a friend told me about Gentoo and I was hooked.
I was a FreeBSD folk, longer than I was a Linux folk — or for an equal amount of time.
I use GNU/Linux and I don’t think of it as a religion or a movement. And when I used FreeBSD it was not a religion either. And I don’t know of anyone who worships the GNU cause or GNU/Linux.
On this comment section, I have seen nothing to indicate someone worships GNU/Linux.
I have seen “linux zealot” sprayed around alot, though we do not see the so called “linux zealots” calling people “solaris zealots” or “freebsd zealots”. Even though they have equal zealotous like comments, and they are even more zealots seeing that none of them are true.
So FreeBSD is getting more user friendly?
The facts that (1) the majority chooses user-friendliness and (2) FreeBSD numbers and shares are growing, don’t imply that FreeBSD is getting more user-friendly, as the (anonymous) post I’m answering to is trying to suggest.
Anyway, to answer the question: I don’t think so. And IMHO it doesn’t need to. FreeBSD is easy enough to any sysadmin that knows what he/she’s doing, so I really hope user-friendliness will never be the top priority for the Free/Net/OpenBSD developers.
I am one of the biggest windows fan but on server market, i would hate to see UNIX go away. I love Solaris, its truly a GEM of an OS. I loved its stability and performance. I can only pray that it sustains the bad weather and prove its worth.
Programming on Solaris was also so much more fun than Windows. We always used Windows desktop and used to do xterm on solaris box to program. I won’t ever replace my desktop from Windows so does i want Solaris to stay on server.
Amen…
“linux can drink unix under the table any day!”
This was the only post in this entire thread worth reading.
Wow, I made that image awhile back, just curious about how you came across it.
http://www.geekxpress.com/thePMG/pictures/IE1.jpg
http://www.geekxpress.com/thePMG/pictures/real_macoy.jpg
http://www.geekxpress.com/thePMG/pictures/ad-aware.jpg
“linux can drink unix under the table any day!”
This was the only post in this entire thread worth reading.
Everybody likes short and lighthearted comments – incidentally, that one is also unsubstantiated and plain wrong.