Close on the heels of the popular Fedora
Core 4 release is the budding
preliminary plans for next release of Fedora Core 5. Faster bootup, Package manager and updater,
Yum repository aware installer, New
init system, Better integration with Xen and Fedora
directory server, more security using SELinux and improvements in Exec Shield that builds upon the strong
foundation, Seamless wireless network and vpn support using Network
Manager, Core Dbus integration, IIMF changes for Internationalization, Better integration with Fedora Legacy project which extends Fedora Core lifecycle to more than 1.5 years every release are just some of the plans already worked out – with many more to come.
There is a huge list of worklist
items for the installer which is used by many
distributions.
Planning for Fedora Core 5
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
It seems that as Linux become more mature, it starts facing the same problems Microsoft faces, less incentive to upgrade. Why bother to upgrade for the smallest feature when you are used to your system, it works, and you are happy with it. Does it make that much of a difference if you have Bind 9.2.4 or 9.3.1? Cups 1.1.22 or 1.1.23? httpd 2.0.52 or 2.0.54? gnome 2.8 or 2.10?
I migrated myself off of Fedora and on to CentOS 4 a few months ago and am very happy with the choice. When CentOS 5 comes along, I might upgrade to it, or I might not. Maybe it will be worth just waiting until CentOS 6 comes out. I have the choice because it is supported for 5 years. Also, I don’t have to worry about compatibility issues with programs I want to install on top of the base distribution because lots of vendors target RHEL.
Uh… here is a news flash.
Fedora IS redhats development/prototype OS.
The whole purpose of fedora in the firstplace is to be cutting edge, with frequent new releases.
Get off the soapbox and learn what fedora is really about.
Why even make such a silly statement in the first place?? Everyone knows that if you want a distro with stability and more regular/dependable release schedules it is more appropriate to use RedHat commerical(or its clones like Centos/Whitebox etc), or SuSE, or for that matter Debian Stable.
Trying to “knock” Fedora for some complaint about the “upgrade treadmill” is just silly.
“From the whishlist: Better sound server replacement – no arts, or esd, something else. Alan Cox had some ideas about synchronization that he considered essential for a new sound server. Have to dig in the archives to find what he thought of these choices specifically.
mether> I think polypaudio for network stuff and dmix locally is the idea here”
I’m glad to see a sane approach to sound in Linux. Dmix is vastly underused as a simple trouble free way of making sound cards without hardware mixing multiclient.
polypaudio I know less well.. It looks like a refined version of esd with more focus on networked audio.
If it’s compatible with Jack then it could be useful, otherwise I’d rather see a real effort to get everything working with dmix, and avoid the complexity of a sound sever daemon alltogether.
That’s exactly what freedom in this case means. You’re not tied to the treadmill. You can get on or off of it whenever you want and neither Fedora nor any of the distribution developers would lose sleep over it.
There are incentives to upgrade, of course. Aside from the minute improvements and updates, there’s also the fact that eventually whatever distribution you use will become unsupported. This doesn’t mean that the product will be less useful. It just means that security problems might no longer be addressed so one has to weigh the risk of sticking to an unsupported system.
Personally, I like the company I work at always on its toes. As a technical engineer myself, I can see how many lazy administrators try to set up systems which hardly need any maintenance, but in truth are really far from it. Following a semi-short upgrade schedule ensures that the people who’re administering these systems don’t lapse into laziness.
I’m not sure why anyone would want FC for other than beta testing then.
yeah,this is necessary.this version is buggy.grub won’t work,yum won’t work.to tell the truth grub has always some bug in Fedora (check in buglist 100 bugs).i am sure there are lots of other bugs,but i did not have chance to test,why?because after installation,i couldnt even boot and tried to install the grub again again!just won’t work!tried to reinstall with yum default pkg manager and yum couldn’t remove the grub!tried to install apt-get,what should happen,but couldn’t install the apt package!
ps:i tried to install the the grub about 20 times by chrooting!
no luck!this version FC_4 is buggy!!!
A lot of these ideas come straight from Ubuntu and/or Debian, like slimming down to 1 or 2 CD’s and making it able to upgrade distribution through Yum.
Conversely, it would be nice to have Fedora/RH-like admin tools in Ubuntu.
“A lot of these ideas come straight from Ubuntu and/or Debian, like slimming down to 1 or 2 CD’s and making it able to upgrade distribution through Yum.
”
When did Debian slim down the CD’s?. Upgrading the distribution through yum has always been possible. The new additional in yum repository support.
Where do you get GCC4, GFS, Xen development tree integration, LVM by default, SELinux by default support 91 deamons?, gdm early login, Clearlooks by default?
dmix sucks, it is a cludge and not very compatible! a NEW dmix is needed. create a fake sound device, set that as default sound device, mix all sounds into that device with ZERO device configuration! linux’ main drawback for me right now is horrible sound support! dmix is junk, alsa is perfect minus seamless software mixing.
fedora core 4 is very nice. it has come a long way in a short time and though it is not complete, it is a very functional OS. I have my parents running FC4 right now and they are pleased with how easy it is to use and how stable and functional it is.(comming from xp)
Yep – definately would like to see it slimmed down to 2 cd’s – and then let users yum install any extras.
What happens to all those in the third world that don’t have broadband connections. I know a lot people (speaking of Africa here) who use Fedora/Redhat without broadband connections, they would never be able to “yum install” big packages.
They should implement something like FreeBSD did. Almost no configuration required. Just say how many channels you want to be available simultaniously, and you can play multiple sounds at once, without the hassle of dmix or sound servers like artsd or esd.
>> for once
Jesus Christ, how many times the same comment. Everybody knows why it doesnt support mp3s out of the box. Go use Windows and let this people work.
Regarding a Live CD, I am working on a project in which we have developed a Live CD of Core 3. I would like to seea the one they are working on.
for once
I’m probably one of the last people to comment on what they should do, but I do like their plan. The idea of slimming down to 2 cd’s is great, I have about 8 that are nonusable from bad burns of FC4. Knocking this down to 2 will help me save cd’s and download the torrent faster.
The other thing, which I have no knowledge about, was the sound server. I think it needs to be improved and I’d like to see artsd and esound go away. What about JACK or one NAS? Is there a way to just completely drop OSS support from the distros?
From what I have read, from FC5 onwards it should be possible to have extras cd’s, so this should solve the problem of narrowband connections (have broadband? just do install and yum install. Don’t have broadband, just do install than yum install from extras cd’s).
MP3: will never happen. if you want it you know how to get it.
My wishlist for FC5:
1. a way to configure hardware from hte hardware browser (currently it only shows whats there, but you can’t touch anything!)
2. A lighter background by default.
3. yum install of local rpms (instead of using rpm directly atm).
Better integration with Xen and Fedora directory server
If all software standardized on Fedora Directory Server and finally started to get LDAP working *correctly* it’d be simply awesome!
Damien
I’d just like to see a way without having to download and install the iso files every time. I maintain my system by using the RHN and get all the latest and greatest as it is released whether it’s beta or whatever.
Why can’t you just go from say a Fedora Core 4 to 5 just by doing the downloads instead of doing an Upgrade via the CD or DVD images. Can’t it just do a compare somehow this way I think more people would do it this way than having to download and burn the iso images every single release.
Just a thought…
Yeah, yeah, “licensing issues.”
Whatever.
If Linux wishes to become big on the desktop, things like this cannot be overlooked.
Dude. Type the following:
$ man yum
Then read about the ‘upgrade’ option. Also, there’s plenty of great howtos out there about upgrading from one core to the next. Hope you’ve got a broadband connection, though.
1. Cyrillic glyphs in the Vera font family (copying Verdana/Georgia fonts from WinXP after install is much worse for me than mp3 “issue”)
2. Fastest in universe default CLI terminal.
>>Yeah, yeah, “licensing issues.”
>>Whatever. If Linux wishes to become big on the desktop, >>things like this cannot be overlooked.
Go use Windows. And who said that we want the best operating system to be used by everybody, especially people like you. They can leave Linux the way it is, I bet many will agree.
3. yum install of local rpms (instead of using rpm directly atm).
yum localinstall <path/packagename}
“dmix sucks, it is a cludge and not very compatible! a NEW dmix is needed. create a fake sound device, set that as default sound device, mix all sounds into that device with ZERO device configuration!”
That’s essentially what dmix does. It creates a virtual device that acts like a sound card that accepts multiple streams and sample rates. I agree that configuring it can be a pain. If a distro like Fedora could provide some sane default settings it would work.
The NetworkManager is an interesting applet, configuring network interfaces in a pair of clicks is great, it will even remember you wlan settings (essid and key for different networks), thats a great help.
However is very fedora only stuff, altough it is programmed to compile and work on many distros (even slackware properly) it depends on dhcdbd which in turn depends on a recent dbus version, which broked API compat with an older version which is needed by hal, if i upgrade everything hal + udev won’t work properly and Gnome won’t *automagically* recognize and mount my usb memory key, my external cd burner, external usb hd, etc. Upgrading udev is not an option it screws a lot of stuff. Dependency Hell for All!
And yes I tried.
Back on topic new fedora is great, i really hope FC5 comes on less CDs, downloading 4 cds is just too much, and if they do the one CD fedora, i hope they support multiple languages (like ubuntu) and have an extra cd with all development stuff you need (gcc, cd 1 devel packages, an IDE maybe).
3. yum install of local rpms (instead of using rpm directly atm).
Not sure if you’re referring to adding this capability or making it configurable via a GUI. That capability is already built into yum. Just put your RPMs (or links to RPMs) in a subdirectory, execute createrepo (make sure you’ve the createrepo package installed) in the subdirectory, then add a repo config.
I do this for the base packages (stored on the harddisk as an ISO image that’s mounted on a subdirectory) and fedora-updates package (that I regularly check and download via crontab and lftp).
Here’s my yum repo config for the base packages:
/etc/yum.repos.d/fedora.repo:
[base]
name=Fedora Core $releasever – $basearch – Base
baseurl=file:///home/fedora/linux/core/$releasever/$basearch/
#mirrorlist=http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors/fedora-core-$releasever
enabled=1
gpgcheck=1
gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora
Installed fine on my thinkpad, an old amd, and a dual opteron. Some upgrade, some clean install. Never had a problem with grub. If you don’t like it use something else.
I think he means using rpm package locally not from repository which is why I give the command : yum localinstall /path/packagename. At least different method is available.
Good to see you use OSX. However, complaining about lack of mp3 support on disto that will never include it ever is silly. You love OSX, stick with it and don’t try to impose your ideology on anyone else. Beside, Fedora can be installed along side with OSX. You have plenty information how to install mp3 (not hard at all) from repository if you want. Should you try to deliberately troll on this topic, it is your loss.
Here is a guide you should read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
>>I use OS X, thank you very much.
LOL. I knew it. Windows or Apple user to complain about not mp3 support. Funny thing, SJ complained when MS copied his software, but Apple is very good at using BSD. Stay with OS X, ,it is a great operating system, but stop trolling about Fedora. I really liked FC3, I found it is faster on my Presario Laptop than Ubuntu (I use Ubuntu). Fedora like Ubuntu depend alot on the progress of Gnome, so I guess my list should be addressed to the Gnome developers.
For those who actually read the list, thats pretty aggressive.
Fedora is moving too fast for anyone else right now, the competition is going to be left behind unless the other players don’t mind accepting 2nd best they’d better step up thier game.
Look at all the new stuff fedora has nobody else does. No other distros have so much to offer, suse has yast, debian has apt, etc but thats just one tool. RedHat/Fedora team are hacking thier asses off.
how is dmix a “cludge”? it does what you want except the zero configuration. no need to rewrite it, we just need something to auto-configure it. from what i understand, this hasn’t been done yet because the dmix settings are specific to each sound card which makes this similar to the X11 auto-configuration problem. there are so many different kinds of hardware out there, it is going to take a focused effort to create a database of what cards need what settings. so far no distro has decided to take on this task because software mixing with esd/arts “works”. perhaps fedora is ready to go after this.
that said, i have taken the time to configure dmix correctly on all my machines and it works with every application i’ve tried. this includes rather complicated situations like TeamSpeak with quake3 and rhythmbox all using the soundcard at the same time on a 64 bit install.
i’ve also been very happy with polypaudio, and i hope fedora adopts it. the only complaint i’ve heard about it is that the code base is large.
I agree with you that the list of changes is very good, but I dont think they are leading the pack. I like Yum and Apt-get, but I do not think they are superior to Portage. I will probably give a try to FC5 when is out. Maybe somebody can tell me the updated road map for gnome 2.12 or even 3.
What is Gstreamer about if not a drop in replacement on Gnome for ESD? Sound has a long way to go on Linux but at least it is a work in progress and ALSA is fairly good minus the multiple audio streams and the fact there are compatability issues with GST-Plugins at the moment.
Piers: GStreamer is a replacement for ESD in the same way that a car engine is a replacement for the muffler.
If Linux wishes to become big on the desktop, things like this cannot be overlooked.
yawn… How many of us using Fedora actually care about it’s quick movement into the desktop? Really people let’s get with the act. I use it because it is free, it works, and it is stable and has the latest cutting edge applications. Pulling down a terminal and typing ‘yum install xmms-mp3’ is not so tought. Oy, this desktop issue and the mp3 thing should have a ban filter on Fedora discussions. How long can you keep beating a dead horse and still find interest in it?
Yes, I am in South Africa and we have a monopoly providing bandwidth. Bandwidth is insanely expensive and the high speed links with other contintents are very expensive. There are quite a few companies/people who provide Linux distributions on CD/DVD for a small cost.
This is one of the reasons I think Canonical started offering Ubuntu on DVD with additional packages included.
1. enable 16k stack in kernel by default so ndiswrapper works (or write drivers for all wifi cards!) maybe even ntfs support by default too.
2. get rid of that graphical boot, and just get to gdm faster.
3. sort out sata support and dma.
4. have a way of making a portable yum repo – basically download your yum updates and then make a cd from it for your other machines.
5. acronis true image 8 class backup/ghost system (not ghost4linux).
6. more sensible services at first boot – i heard they at least turned off pcmcia and isdn in fc4 (unless you have isdn/laptop) can we turn off sendmail too?
7. a dvd decrypter class ripper – and don’t mention dvd::rip or vobcopy, they’re a joke – dvd decrypter under wine even works better!
8. mp3 support by default – come on, you’re not owned by redhat anymore, either that or incorporate in a country that isn’t run by the riaa.
“1. enable 16k stack in kernel by default so ndiswrapper works (or write drivers for all wifi cards!) maybe even ntfs support by default too.
”
4k stacks is upstream default.
“2. get rid of that graphical boot, and just get to gdm faster. ”
Yes. this is planned. see the list
”
4. have a way of making a portable yum repo – basically download your yum updates and then make a cd from it for your other machines. ”
This can already work with createrepo if I understand you correctly
”
6. more sensible services at first boot – i heard they at least turned off pcmcia and isdn in fc4 (unless you have isdn/laptop) can we turn off sendmail too?
”
An MTA is needed for sending out log information and other details to the administrator. It only listens to the local interface so no security issues there. For other services they should be dealt on a case by case basis. List out them and file bug report or initiate a discussion in fedora-devel list
For mp3, ntfs and other software with potential legal issues they cannot be shipped as part of Fedora regardless of whether its a commercial organisation or foundation
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems
”
7. a dvd decrypter class ripper – and don’t mention dvd::rip or vobcopy, they’re a joke – dvd decrypter under wine even works better!
”
Why are they a joke? I rip all of my DVDs to a spare harddrive I have because my family has this habit of borrowing them and never returning them. I used to use DVD::Rip, but even though it worked every time for me, I found it had a crappy gui and created extra, unneccesary steps. It still worked good for me though. So I switched to vobcopy, and with the -l switch it rips your whole DVD main title to a single vob file. It actually goes quicker on my computer (whole process from on an encrypted DVD to on a 4.7 GB DVD) than DVD X Copy Xpress on my Mom’s Computer.
Only once did a DVD not work with vobcopy or DVD::Rip, but I tried with DVD X Copy and it also locked up.
And about not being able to rip menus, thats a good thing, because then you don’t have annoying previews either. I never use the special features.
What happens to all those in the third world that don’t have broadband connections. I know a lot people (speaking of Africa here) who use Fedora/Redhat without broadband connections, they would never be able to “yum install” big packages.
I am one of those people. The full cd distribution should be left as it is. Maybe make some hard choices here and there, btu in general, I like that the functionality is included in the cds.
–> Piers: GStreamer is a replacement for ESD in the same way that a car engine is a replacement for the muffler.
Guys, I have been a growing user and supporter of Linux over the last 8 years. For the most part, the community involvement is great, well it wouldn’t exist if not. There is one problem I do see continually and it is responses like this. If you are fully familiar with all the programs involved, not only would you have already known the answer to this question, but would also be able to make sense out of this answer. Responses like these to questions are the BIGGEST problem with linux. When CIO’s look into linux, and read comments like this, why are they going to want to put the risk of their company on this platform. Understand that this is a not the most common situation, but it is a very valid one. It also turns off users who are trying to get into a new OS. Yes, when someone trolls over and over about why the mp3 libraries not included by default, eventually, they deserve abuse, but not until it clear beyond a reasonable doubt that they understand there are licensing issues that prevent such a distribution. When they buy XP or OSX they have paid for that library.
Please take a second before posting, think about what you are going to say, and try your best to be mature. Knee jerk jackassedness is a detriment to a great community.
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems
What about crypto? I don’t know much about it, but isn’t there some xxx-bit (and up) encryption not allowed to be exported from the US?
Personally, since I’m a KDE fan, I’d rather see Fedora ship desktop environment in the state that the KDE developers wished it to be and not the way the Fedora developers did.
I realise that Fedora favours GNOME but why on Earth do they have to tinker with KDE so badly?! Oh… and yes, I did remove their one and use the kde-redhat project’s KDE instead
Maybe they could save some time, effort, and money if they just dropped KDE support. Put KDE into Extras. I mean, don’t they already favor Gnome over KDE anyway?
OTOH, judging from what Pat (of Slackware) said, it sounds like it’s not all that difficult for a distro to include KDE/Qt. If that’s the case, I wonder why (according to you Stephen) Fedora even tinkers with KDE at all? Just drop in the stock KDE and be done with it, no?
Except for the KDE theme change and some minor bug fixes there isnt any major things that are different from the upstream version
See for yourself
http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/rpms/kdebase/FC-4/kdebase.spec…
The theme will be reverted to the default soon
>Responses like these to questions are the
>BIGGEST problem with linux. When CIO’s look
>into linux, and read comments like this, why
>are they going to want to put the risk of
>their company on this platform.
You don’t seriously think CIOs actually make decisions
based on reading posts from unknown people of ambigious
qualification on bulletin boards?
Mark
How about improving the wireless support? I have an old MA 111 Netgear USB wireless card. None of Linux distributions recognizes it during the installation. Only Mandrake 9.2 is able to see it after all the messy kernel compiling…
I just got a Netgear WG111v2 USB2 wireless adapter working under FC3 using ndiswrapper – does 54Mbps too (just like my Linksys WPC54G with ndiswrapper).
You just need that 16k stack kernel….
I think its high time for the FC community to work on things that will make FC to work properly notebooks or laptops.