As a Macbook Pro owner myself, I’m somewhat reluctant to admit that the first generation of Macbooks suffer from an annoying and constant whine and an unaccpetable amount of heat output. Therefore, I will be one of the many calling Apple Support on May 20. May 20th, it’s been reported, is “the day the whining ends.” OSX86Project has more.
Users to Apple: Fix My Macbook Pro!
About The Author
Adam Scheinberg
Technology Executive • Web Developer • Father • Foodie • Music Snob • OS enthusiast
Follow me on Mastodon @[email protected]
I saw a post – see http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/9889 – saying that on some examples the cpu had not had thermal compound properly applied in the factory. Taking the machine apart and redoing it by hand helped the cooling issues.
But who knows. I guess it is always very hard dealing with a – cough – monopoly supplier.
Edited 2006-05-02 01:13
#But who knows. I guess it is always very hard dealing with a – cough – monopoly supplier. #
A monopoly supplier? I guess Honda is a “monopoly supplier” becase they are the only people you can buy Hondas from, I guess Nike is a monopoly because they are the only ones you can buy Nike from, I guess Toshiba is a monopoly supplier because they are the only ones you can buy a Toshiba laptop from.
If you want to run MacOS–legally–you still have to go through Apple. In that sense, they’re a monopoly supplier.
That their track record is somewhat less dubious than that of some other well-known monopoly supplier in the industry is another thing.
And how is that any different from what the parent said?
And how is that any different from what the parent said?
Perhaps “moleskin” meant Intel? While not a monopoly, they can be considered a member of an oligopoly?
“I guess Honda is a “monopoly supplier” becase they are the only people you can buy Hondas from…”
And Dell is a monopoly supplier because they are the only ones you can buy a Dell from. And so is HP, they are the only ones you can buy an HP from.
However the difference is, there is competition in the supply of hardware that will run Windows, and there is only one supplier of hardware that will run OSX, and that is why that supplier gets away with quality defects and design problems that would sink any hardware supplier who has competition. Apple is obviously a monopoly supplier of hardware to run OSX in a way that no supplier of hardware to run Windows is.
How sick and tired one gets of the endless repetition of these silly party line slogans. They don’t convince anyone, since they are so obviously false. Do the Apple people think we are all idiots? Or are they actively trying to irritate us?
However the difference is, there is competition in the supply of hardware that will run Windows, and there is only one supplier of hardware that will run OSX, and that is why that supplier gets away with quality defects and design problems that would sink any hardware supplier who has competition. Apple is obviously a monopoly supplier of hardware to run OSX in a way that no supplier of hardware to run Windows is.
What the hell kind of argument is that ? “OsX is too good and so must be shared”. No matter how good it is it doesn’t give Apple an unfair advantage over the competition, certainly not to the point it gives them a license to release crappy hardware like you’re claiming.
Also your reasoning is flawedin seeing OsX as a seperate product, it isn’t. Apple is one of the few companies left that sell “the whole computer”, meaning hardware and software, like Atari, Amiga, etc used to do too.
Edit: BTW the “whole computer”-model still exists in other places too, like IBM pSeries and mainframes.
Edited 2006-05-02 09:35
What the hell kind of argument is that ? “OsX is too good and so must be shared”. No matter how good it is it doesn’t give Apple an unfair advantage over the competition, certainly not to the point it gives them a license to release crappy hardware like you’re claiming.
Also your reasoning is flawedin seeing OsX as a seperate product, it isn’t. Apple is one of the few companies left that sell “the whole computer”, meaning hardware and software, like Atari, Amiga, etc used to do too
He’s not trying to say that Apple should sell OS X for other companies’ xomputers, but you have managed to prove his point for him.
Apple is the only company you can buy an Apple from.
Like you said, Apple is the only company that still sells “the whole computer”, so that statement is a very different one than saying “Dell is the onlt company you can buy a Dell from”.
What the hell kind of argument is that ? “OsX is too good and so must be shared”.
Ahem, where were you when Jobs came along and “killed off” the clones? This is not like HP buying out Compaq, because you can still get different products that run Windows.
Granted MacOS is fully owned by Apple, they can do whatever they want with it. However, I believe it’s been said before that many people felt the clones were actually better than the Apple branded machines.
“”OsX is too good and so must be shared”. No matter how good it is it doesn’t give Apple an unfair advantage over the competition,”
Never said anything about unfair competition or OSX being good or bad. I just said, Apple has a monopoly on hardware that runs it. They do.
Next we have “your reasoning is flawedin seeing OsX as a seperate product, it isn’t.”
Well, operating systems just are separate products from the hardware they run on. This is what words mean. If this is not a separate product, what is? I can buy the OS separately. I can buy the hardware without an OS on it (yes, used machines often come without OS or even hard drive) and install it myself from the bought OS. This tells you fairly clearly that there are two things and not one. It is as true of a Dell as it is of an Apple.
What Apple is doing is bundling two separate products together. Just like Dell. I don’t say this is right or wrong, in or not in the customer’s or Apple’s interests. I am not particularly arguing anyone should do anything differently, at least not in this post.
But to tell us that the combination of OSX and a MacIntel is one product, in a sense in which a combination of XP and a Dell PC is two products, is moving into the land of Humpty Dumpty, where ‘words mean what I want them to mean, and that’s all there is to say about it’.
I bought two machines recently. One was an old Mac, the other an old Dell. Yes folks, they both came without OS. Yes, I put my boughten system disks in, started up and installed. One took a bit longer than the other. Otherwise, the experience was identical, and it was an experience of two products not one. Oh, one rebooted more often…
In short, one still has the same worry. Do they think we are idiots, or are they deliberately setting out to irritate us?
Well, operating systems just are separate products from the hardware they run on. This is what words mean. If this is not a separate product, what is? I can buy the OS separately. I can buy the hardware without an OS on it (yes, used machines often come without OS or even hard drive) and install it myself from the bought OS. This tells you fairly clearly that there are two things and not one. It is as true of a Dell as it is of an Apple.
You can’t buy the hardware without OS on it, you can buy a computer where someone has erased the OS that was supposed to be on it, and lost the restore disc. This computer is defective.
You cannot buy the OS seperately, you can buy an upgrade to install on your Apple computer. This is just like you used to be able to buy Workbench updates from Amiga (OS + ROMs) however noone is claiming the AmigaOS was a seperate product. Would you claim the OS running the iPod is a seperate product and Apple should release it seperately from the hardware ?
But to tell us that the combination of OSX and a MacIntel is one product, in a sense in which a combination of XP and a Dell PC is two products, is moving into the land of Humpty Dumpty, where ‘words mean what I want them to mean, and that’s all there is to say about it’.
No it’s not. I buy a Mac which has OsX on it – on the other hand I buy a Dell which comes with a license for Windows.
Sure OsX *could be* a seperate product, but it isn’t marketed as such so it isn’t.
“Sure OsX *could be* a seperate product, but it isn’t marketed as such so it isn’t.”
(1) It definitely is marketed as such. Ask anyone who bought OSX to put on his Classic Mac. I did. I went into the store, in London actually, and I said, give me a copy of OSX please. The guy said, yes sir, that will be £100. He put in in a bag and I left the store.
If that is not a separate product, I do not know what a separate product is.
(2) If it suffices for a product not to be marketed separately for it not to be a separate product, all of EC anti trust law which is based on the prevention of anti competitive practices by bundling, would be impossible. Think about it for goodness’ sake. What do you think the EC has been going after MS for for the last few years?
They’ve been objecting to the fact that they ALWAYS SELL DIFFERENT PRODUCTS TOGETHER. No, no, that does not mean there is just one product. It is the practice of bundling. Whether you SELL separately or not has nothing to do with it. Whether there are separate products has nothing to do with how the supplier behaves. It has to do with the products themselves and the product markets. This is the only reason the EC can proceed against MS.
OSX and hardware to run it on are TWO PRODUCTS bundled together. Just like XP and hardware to run it on. In both cases, by the way, as a matter of fact you have separate license agreements for the software. Not that this makes any difference.
The only other person I have heard making this insane argument, and the equally bizarre comparison of OSX plus its hardware to a Honda, is Kelly McNeill. You wouldn’t be related would you?
The only other person I have heard making this insane argument, and the equally bizarre comparison of OSX plus its hardware to a Honda, is Kelly McNeill. You wouldn’t be related would you?
Hey that one is below the belt !
I’m going to let this go because neither one of us is being convinced by the other.
Hey that one is below the belt !
Yes it was, and I apologize. I did try to go back and edit afterwards, but it wouldn’t let me.
However the difference is, there is competition in the supply of hardware that will run Windows, and there is only one supplier of hardware that will run OSX, and that is why that supplier gets away with quality defects and design problems that would sink any hardware supplier who has competition. Apple is obviously a monopoly supplier of hardware to run OSX in a way that no supplier of hardware to run Windows is.
I work for an australian university and we are having a 15% failure rate of Powermac G5s… 15%. To have apple’s service contractors come out onsite requires about 3-4x as long as DELL to do the required diagnostics to convince them that there is a hardware fault. This is probibly because it takes a trained techie 15 minutes to remove a mainboard from a PowerMac G5… takes a techie 3 mins on a DELL.
We have quite a decent number of macs in our institution, and if it was DELL or any other vendor that was doing this they would have lost prefered vendor status a while ago. Unfortunatly apple is the only vendor of OSX which our users wish to run.
Now I love Mac OS X… but apple seem to barely be holding on to one of its most loyal markets by pure incompentance… It can’t get the hardware right, then it can’t or won’t fix it fast enough.
I’ve had a similar experience with Apple build quality. At Christmas I bought 2 iPods, one from a John Lewis (a mjaor UK department store) and one from the Apple website. The one from the store wouldn’t hold it’s charge and I had to take it back after 2 weeks. The guy in the store told me that they had a 20% return rate on iPods dues to battery and screen issues.
As for the one I bought from the Apple store, after a month it stopped holding a charge. After being passed around various people on the Apple phone line I arranged to take it to an Apple Authorized service center. One week later they gave me a brand new one. It turned out to have the same problem! I rang up and asked for a refund and was told it’s Apple policy to repair something three times before giving a refund!!! After making a fuss I finally got my money back.
I’ve also got an Apple iBook. About a month after it ran out of guarantee the trackpad stopped working. I rang Apple and asked how much it would cost to get it repaired and told me it would cost £235 plus VAT.
I’ve owned 4 Dells over the last 10 years and they’re heavily used. I’ve never had a single problem with any of them…
Based on all this you can probably guess that I think Apple’s build quality sucks. Steve Jobs should spend less time reading about industrial design and focus on how the expensive hardware his shop makes can be made more reliable…
** end-of-rant! **
Akula,
I suggest calling another support company.
Diagnostics on a G5 motherboard does not require it’s removal.
we don’t remove the mobo for diagnostics…
We spend ages diagnosing the problem so apple don’t have to pay a tech to remove the mobo.
Takes us normally a day and a half to run every test required to get apple to send a tech with a part under warrenty.
Dell will fix it soon as we have ruled out other things simply. run Diags. Check plugs. maybe reseat ram (if it is a ram related issue). reimage. if at this point system still has a problem we tell dell. Techie will be out tomorrow with the part.
This is nonsense. The total heat output of the computer will not change one iota, whether the CPU has thermal compound applied or not. The heat released is function of the power consumed. If the CPU sonsumes lots of power – tough, you can do nothing about it, short of underclocking it.
Better heat dissipation will, of course, help reduce the die temperature, but as I said, total heat dissipation will stay exactly the same.
The total heat output of the computer will not change one iota, whether the CPU has thermal compound applied or not.
Wrong. Semiconductor resistance decreases exponentially with temperature, which means power consumption goes up.
Umm… excellent point, actually.
“This is nonsense. The total heat output of the computer will not change one iota, whether the CPU has thermal compound applied or not.”
Not exactly.
Yes, the thermal output doesn’t change, but the unproper application of thermal paste doesn’t allow to the cooling system to take away from the CPU the heat in the most efficient way.
So, the cooling system will have to work more and harder hurling more air (with a lower efficiency) to remove the same amount of heat from the CPU, so the fan will be on for longer times and at higher speed, with more noise.
Even, the efficiency may be so impaired that the temperature of the machine tend to be hotter than it would be under normal condition of operation, if with the fan at max speed and always on is not enough to dissipate all the heat.
It’s not a mean of producing more heat, only a mean of removing it inefficiently, so the cooling system will produce more noise and probably will let the whole thing to get hotter than expected since the heat not removed by the air hurled by the fan has no other way out than radiate trough the body of the machine.
Apple user whining will continue long after the CPU whining has been corrected.
I’ve got a first-generation 12″ aluminium powerbook. I would be EXTREMELY happy to have the heat output of this thing as low as your “unacceptable heat output”. With the cord plugged in, I’ve seen this laptop pass 60•C CPU temperature, with the bottom of the laptop getting too hot to touch. “Unacceptable”… bah!
The reason for the powerbooks getting so hot is quite simple. Basically, the g4 powerbooks use the same processor that is in the desktops. In order to make the laptops thin and light, the heat since is actually the body of the laptop. Please note, this is the reason that Apple never calls them laptops… they are notebooks!;)
Bullshit. The G4 is a very low power chip. The reason they get so hot is because aluminum is a shitty material with which to make computers. It looks nice, but its terrible acoustically and thermally.
Hey, I’m not saying that the product is good or bad, I’m just stating what Apple says about that particular heat issue. Anyways, have you ever looked at the heat sink for a PowerMac G4 tower? It is a monster! Except for the differences in speed, the two processor are not that much different. I think that the ibook isn’t as bad on heating because of the plastic shell… maybe they should put that around the aluminum;) Anyways, here is a link to pic of the heatsink:
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/lovemacs_1893_285473456
Apple designs thier powerbooks out of Aluminum and uses the bottom as a heat sink. They say so in thier users manual.
So either you have a stylish AL 1″ think, quiet notebook or you have a chunky, noisy, plastic notebook with a fan on the bottom blowing hot air.
It’s a compromise either way. My friend just got a new Vaio and its bottom gets quiet hot and had hot air blowing out of it. This is with a Pentium M 1.73 Ghz.
Edited 2006-05-02 19:09
Dropping +2.5 grand on a first generation PowerMac and all is complaints? This is not acceptable.
Just smash the thing (make sure to film it) and buy a Lenovo with Windows XP for god’s sakes!
but then you have to use Windows?
Thats the idea my friend..
The GPU on the MacBook Pro’s are hobbled to keep the heat down and the battery life up.
If Apple has to do this then we know there isn’t a whole lot of life of performance upgrade ability in professional laptops.
We might have to have a something lite and not so powerful for a laptop and do all the heavy lifting at the desktop machines.
Also the Core Duo’s are hobbled as well in the MacBook Pro’s.
A Core Duo 2.16 Gz gets a CPU score of 76, when a three year old Dual 2 Ghz G5 gets a CPU score of 100.
What gives with that?
A CPU score in what? The Core Duos have far better integer performance than the G5s, which makes them superior for a lot of common applications (including compilations). The G5s do better on SIMD instructions, and have a slight (but by no means clear) advantage in floating-point performance.
However, when did you last buy a laptop with a G5 in it?
Right.
The Core Duo is actually one of the best laptop chips out there, and the roadmap (as Steve himself mentioned) looks great. The next batch (Merom/Conroe) should surpass the G5 in pretty much all areas.
Of course, this doesn’t matter for the iMac, but then again, this thread isn’t about desktops (and anyway, the Merom/Conroe release will help them). What’s more, the heat problems would have been even worse if they’d shoe-horned a G5 in there.
Edited 2006-05-02 11:03
I thought that mac hardware was more expensive because it was made with better components than your average dell machine.
I had a compaq laptop bought in 1998 that was with me until 2005 before i sold it. Sometimes the hard drive started to make some noises and eventually froze the machine but it could always work fine later.
I am typing this from a september 2003 powerbook bought in december 2003. I am using ubuntu live cd because the hard drive started to make some ugly sounds starting 3 weeks ago and now i can only use it from a live cd.
Also, this powerbook doesn’t close properly, the paint of the latch is chipped, and also gets too hot.
I don’t think i am buying another mac laptop. I live in venezuela and don’t have support. So i am screwed with using live cd until i can visit the states and buy a hard drive (and i don’t know if the hard drive is bad or rather some other component that is causing the hard drive to go bad)
G3 users had a core logic board recall, now macbook users get whine sounds and overheating.
Apple hardware is overrated, IMHO.
I remember the same problem with one of the early revisions of the G5 iMac. Idling along it was pretty quiet, but as soon as you ran something, you’d hear that whine.
Yep, when I compiled KDE, my house-mate couldn’t sleep one night!
Is Apple’s service and support line even open on Saturdays? I thought it was a Monday-Friday, 7am eastern to 5pm pacific operation.
Strange, yeah? 😉
Now I’m a new Apple customer, but here’s what I’ve heard from the veterans: first generation products have problems. The rate of machines with problems drop after the model has been in production for a while which is normal and as you would expect. As Apple tend to use more customised pieces, like custom molded cases and so on, the initial problem rate is going to be slightly higher than on the competition (causing some people to refuse buying revA Apple products.)
Now Apple generally deals with these problems in in one of two ways :
– ignore users totally, which means you are farked.
– replace/repair whan you take your product in for service.
They have a good record on choosing option 2, but have been known to take option 1 on more than one occasion too.
Unfortunately for Apple they have a user base that are tech savvy, vocal, organised and rather picky to boot.
Personally I have been lucky in that every Apple product I have bought I have found to be of great build quality, and great quality in general. But I sincerely hope you get yours fixed.
Hmmm, I don’t know how do you use your powerbook but I use mine 20 hours a day with photoshop, textmate, adium,ichat,colloquy, safari .. and heat output is very acceptable and noise is very low. Temperature is very acceptable, I can take the powerbook at the end on the day on my knee whithout any problem.
And alumnium is a good material to reduce thermal pb, moreover it doesn’t allow a lot of vibration, that why noise is so low…
So how do u use your powerbook ? On which material do you put it to work ???
// I use mine 20 hours a day //
Three words: Get a life.
You know a computer can work without any use on… But that wasn’t the point. The point was heat consumption … So maybe you will have a smarter answer ?
well, apple probably made some design mistakes in this first series – and they are to blame for that.
but on the other hand: i really don’t get people who blindfoldedly buy the first generation of this stuff for _heaps_ of cash. not that i need a new notebook right now, but if i did, i’d read some reviews and decide carefully. or just wait some more months until the dust settles. i mean… people don’t go out and buy a car just because some company releases a new model, do they? what is it with this apple craze? just because these things are.. err.. white? or because steve jobs is kinda cool? whatever…
christian
…
The solution here is simple:
STOP BUYING APPLE PRODUCTS
at the very least, stop buying first gen *anything* from apple – even apple-zealots agree on this issue. Apple’s first generation products nearly always fall apart, or burt into flames (figuratively speaking), and apple doesn’t do a damn thing except say – yeah, we’ll fix that next generation. Occasionally they often issue recalls *long* after the issue was brought to their attention (g3/early g4 ibook mobo beath anyone? Paint falling of the TiBooks anyone? Keyboard indentations on the lcd on a number of models of AlBooks anyone? 17″ AlBooks warping anyone?). Apple is definitely guilty as hell of form over function related flaws in their products. They lost me as a loyal customer (very loyal) over crap like this. Now I use a thinkpad, and linux, and couldn’t be happier – not stupidass slot-loading cdrom drive for one, an actual warrantee instead of that joke they call “applecare” for another.
Now I use a thinkpad, and linux, and couldn’t be happier – not stupidass slot-loading cdrom drive for one, an actual warrantee instead of that joke they call “applecare” for another.
From Lenovo’s own Thinkpad warranty:
ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/thinkcentre_pdf/lenovo_solw.p…
“What this Warranty Does not Cover
This warranty does not cover the following:
x any software programs, whether pre-loaded or shipped with the Machine, or installed subsequently;
x failure resulting from misuse, accident, modification, unsuitable physical or operating environment, or improper maintenance by you;
x failure caused by a product for which Lenovo is not responsible;”
Whoops, you just modified your computer by replacing the OS they installed on it with unsupported software, using an unsupported filesystem and reverse-engineered hardware drivers for which Lenovo is not responsible. Come your first service call, Lenovo’s got a good case to tell you “Linux probably did it” and tell you they’re out of their obligation to honor your warranty.
And this is coming from someone who agrees with most of your post and uses both OS X and Kubuntu daily.
I don’t think you understood what you copied and pasted. They will not cover third party software that isn’t including with the operating system, but if there is a hardware problem, they will support it without a problem. And speaking from personal experience dealing with them, its true that is infact the case. It nowhere says you cannot replace their software, use reverse engineered drivers, and so on, just that if you do and have problems with those, they can’t help you with them, you can put back on what they support and then they will help you. And they will help you do that.
Then I stand corrected and am extremely pleased a computer company will stand by their hardware without blaming you for installing a different OS than whatever they OEMed onto it. I will pass this along if someone asks me.
“We don’t likes crafty hobbitses!
Error 21”
mean? I tried to edit some fairly glaring typeo’s in my first post and got that very useful error several times.
It means the comment was more than 20 minutes old when you submitted the “edit” form. You can only edit a comment for 20 minutes. You may have clicked the link in that timeframe, but the form was submitted after 20 minutes had elapsed. The reason you kept getting it, I’d guess, was that you kept using the back button.
can’t… stop… my… self.
[sarcasm] Buy Apple computers until they’re hot [/sarcasm]
On more serious side, when was Apple any better? I’m a long time Apple user, and I constantly bitch about lack of the quality. Quality went down when they introduced G4. G3 tower was the last decent Apple machine I had. And from that time it went only to worse. With changing their OS first and now changing arch. Apple does the worst job possible to keep a stable platform.
Well, now since I will loose so much on software I won’t be upgrading anymore. All my software doesn’t work on Intel (yeah, I know about Rosetta, but who would like to run app in emulator? I’m better off keeping my G5 until it lasts and just throw it away after that)
Welcome to the world of WinTel … my (self-built) PC is loud and hot. Still saving up for my liquid-cooling setup .. that will quiet things down. (and I’m glad I have the option to do stuff like that).
As a non-Mac owner (I do use a Mini at work, on occasion — talk about quiet!), I’m a bit surprised by the author’s allegations … are the Macbooks really that loud and hot? I’d be used to it, I guess … but I’d expect much less noise/heat, for that price tag.
“Welcome to the world of WinTel … my (self-built) PC is loud and hot.”
Hum, since about 3 years ago the WinTel world allow to buy at reasonable prices quite and silent notebook with P-M, and recently AMD is getting closer to P-M as for tdp.
And with a software like Notebook Hardware Control you can undervolt a Centrino in a matter of seconds and with a bit of luck you may even find it capable of performance close to Low Voltage or Ultra Low Voltage P-Ms, like mine that is running @ 1,4 GHz with 0.908 mV with a TDP under 10W.
If instead you want a performance monster you should note that the CPU is not the only (and for many things not even the most important, or important at all) thing that eat energy and spread heat… a modern GPU (multiplied for SLI and multi GPU configurations) is a power hungry beast, a 10K disk get hot in minutes (and you may need a RAID with some disks…), and if you use a x86 CPU or whatever else CPU architecture doesn’t matter there.
Yes, exactly right. Think for a moment. Apple supply 100 per cent of Apple computers and if you have a problem there is nowhere else to turn to. And if you don’t think Apple’s hardware is up to standard, you’re only choice is to abandon the platform entirely.
I have never understood folks who sing Apple’s praises while merrily tieing themselves into this.
No it is not nonsense at all. If the cpu is incorrectly fitted it may run hot, perhaps far too hot. This is not necessarily good for the machine, unless Apple owners are so rich they don’t care how long their new portables last for. The problem here is not to do with total heat dissipation but the way in which the heat is dissipated. Try it at home by deliberating misapplying the cpu, perhaps leaving off any thermal compound on spraying on an entire tube. Congratulate yourself on your precise measurements of heat dissipation. Then go out and buy a new desktop a day or two later after a lot of smoke and an awful smell. In the case of a laptop, if you have been placing it in your lap, you may need to go out and look for a bollock transplant as well.
Edited 2006-05-02 15:04
I’ve not seen so many straight up liars in one place in some time.
Apple is FAR from perfect. They have had hardware issues. They have failed the consumers (IMNSHO) on stepping up to the plate to resolve issues once or twice in the past. With that said;
15% defective rate on G5’s? 20% on iPods? Straight up lies. No way.
If a University or business had a defective rate anywhere near that they would sue or at least squeeze out some free press coverage. Period.
If iPods failed at that rate they would have such a bad name NO ONE would even consider buying one.
I know sometimes bad computer products stay in the market (PC CHIPS Motherboards come to mind) but they DO NOT remain high sellers and you generally do not find devoted fan bases.
When a product like the MBP has an issue (minor or major) Apples “free publicity” they seem to get every-time an Apple employee farts turns around and backfires. Dell, HP, eMachine, Compaq, IBM and anyone you can think of has released products with minor to severe hardware issues at one time or the other. Apple is NOT immune. PC laptops don’t receive the attention Apple gets. Everyone knows what a MacBook Pro is. Now go ask someone about a Dell M90. So Apple problems ON OCCASION can seem exaggerated.
I take offence to the charge of being a liar, but hey its the net… everyone is free to throw around wild accusations.
We do have a 15% failure rate on PowerMac G5s in a lab environment. The failure rate appears lower on staff machines, however it is still high. We are still negotiating with apple over these problems. This however only affects the single campus (and another one has 1 or 2 Labs) which has Macintosh labs. So while it causes major problems for a single divisional unit, It doesn’t concern management who’s simple solution is to “Replace em with dells”.
Apple is not the only vendor who has problems with models. Dell has had a heap of issues. The Optiplex GX260 model had various quirks, the GX270 had major capacitor issues (DELL have replaced every motherboard in every lab of Optiplex GX270s). GX280s have thermal issues (getting too hot) . And the current model (GX620) are suffering from thermal issues (ram becoming unseated via thermal expansion).
You want to test a computer? put it in a lab for 3-4 years… An earlier DELL model (Optiplex GX240) survived well, as have apple G4 towers (Quicksilver).
As for a lawsuit, you obviously have never dealt with a large non-corp organisation. Legal departments are slow to get back to people. Maybe at some point in the future this may go before a court, but we are still a long way off.
Why would we squeeze out some press coverage? “Come to X” we have broken computers. We are investigating some options that are available to us, but if our support agreement is unworkable with apple, then who else is there? Where do we get the parts from to fix these computers?
Part of the problem is Apple has recently changed the way their business operates in Australia. It used to be that the apple stores were responsible for the repairs, and would send out a techie to fix it. Now it has all been outsourced to NCR a firm which also handles DELL and other computers. This means we can’t even use the weight of our purchases as leverage against apple vendors, because we have to go through apple Australia to get the problems resolved.
We have a much lower failure rate on most other apple products. However we do occasionally have issues where apple refuse to do a hardware replacement until we can prove exactly what part is defective…. and sometimes that gets time consuming.
Edited 2006-05-02 22:11
I said: Macs are beautiful and powerful computers without problems and I think even first generation Mactels are so. Two my friend bought brand new Mactels, one MacBook Pro 15″ 1.83Mhz and one iMac Core Due 17″ (not the G5). They haven’t a problem at all. These new Mactels are, about our experience, beautiful and powerful computer without problems.
I said: iPods are the best digital player at all. I made two iPod Mini for presents to my other friends, two Christmas ago. These are almost perfect, only a small firmware problem for one (but I think it was for a bug in the Windows USB stack), fixed with a firmware restore (problem never came out again). Last november I bought an iPod nano and last month the girlfriend of my friend that bought the iMac Core Duo bought another iPod nano. Her iPod had a minor firmware problem (I think because she didn’t unmouth the iPod before to unplug the USB) and I fixed it with a simple firmware restore. Four iPods, two very little problems, probably simple “bad uses”, TOTALY fixed “by myself”. For me and my friends the iPod are the best digital player even because the owner can easely fix problems “by myself”.
My friends said: Nokias are the better mobile phones. Last Christmas I changed my mobile carrier without changing my mobile number (“number portability”, for who doesn’t know it) and so my new carrier rented for free to me an UMTS phone of my choise, “branded” by the carrier. I chose the Nokia 6680, a nice dual-mode UMTS/GSM-GPRS triband mobile phone, the only one in the offer that was totaly compatible with iSync (or viceversa, if you prefer). It had a STUPID charging problems, not serious but very boring. First, the assistence changed the battery, than the charging plug, next reset the firmware, finally sended my Nokia to a repair center that updated the firmware. When it returned the charging problem never came out again, but now it has another small issue with my Bluetooth hearset (anytime when I turn off this the phone think it is on again and I need to disconnect it by myself). Anyway, this last problem can’t be fixed because there isn’t another better firmware update. Apart from this little problem, the Nokia 6680 is a great and entertaining mobile phone, so I’m joyful for the choise.
It’s only a metter of experience: Apple and Nokia are ALMOST perfect companies. but perfection is ONLY of God Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.
I don’t have any experiences with Mac Book Pros, but I do have experience with 2 new Intel iMacs. Both were purchased very shortly after release and both are running perfectly with their owners loving them.
I also have now owned two PowerBooks since switching to OSX a number of years ago and both have been excellent with no major hardware problems. (My titanium PB developed an airport reception problem which I tracked down to the antenna having become loose on the inside – a simple fix and one I did myself in a few minutes time.) I have about 7 other friends and family who use Macs on a daily basis (most of them use them as their primary system – as I do). (All of us are fairly recent converts to the platform starting after OSX was released.) The only problems encountered have been a direct result of physical abuse.. such as dropping them off desks and snapping the screen off or getting into a motorcycle accident with the powerbook in the rider’s backpack. I know just about the same number of people with iPods of all sorts of different generations, and with the exception of the iPods that are several years old now (which have issues holding a charge for very long), they are all still in working order and perfectly usable.
The discussion group will rotate it off eventually.
Be careful, YMMV.
hylas
Permanent SOLUTION for the WHINE issue. STEP by STEP Instructions.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=461317&tstart=0
The Inquirer is ‘reporting’ on the issue too.
http://theinquirer.net/?article=31375
“… forgot to put enough thermal grease in the right places.”
Well, they certainly put enough thermal grease in the right places. Too much actually.
Why don’t these morons stick to watching TV or something?
A) No. All installing linux did is remove their liability for supporting my currently instaled software. I’m not concerned, and honestly that’s a huge stretch.
B) I bought their “Even if you drop this in the bathtub we’ll replace it” warrantee. It cost about the same applecare does. Even if it never comes to pass, I like my thinkpad a hell of a lot more than any apple lappy I’ve ever owned.
I like OS X a lot – I grew up around the Macintosh devs, and later unix devs. I do not like apple as a company – I think for the amount of marketshare they have, they are worse than MS in many aspects – at least they haven’t started treating their customer base like thieves by requiring registration, but then, as has been pointed out, they have a captive audience. I suspect with the advent of macintel, they will change this stance.
Well I made it ALLLL the way to an apple product specialist named “Jason”. Jason told me that it is normal for the macbook pro to get so hot that you can not touch it. When I asked for him to clarify that statement, he changed it to, “It is normal for the macbook to run so hot that you can’t touch it, when it is on your lap.” He went on to say that apple does not reccomend using the macbook on your lap, as that could cause it to run “out of spec”. The end result, he offered to do nothing, nothing at all. Looks like I am going to be screwed into paying a 200 dollar restocking fee, just so I can get rid of this problem child. I am extremely dissapointed with apple. I grew up with a father who worked for apple for nearly 10 years, so needless to say I have had mac’s my entire life, and I have never seen such a poorly designed piece of equipment. Nor have I ever heard such crap from their support people, usually they are quite helpful. Its obvious that the call center is on the big defensive with these machines right now. Don’t stop bugging them about this. Do what I did, DEMAND to talk to a product specialist, take it as far as you can.
CK