Peter Golde, one of the original designers of the C# language, has been working recently on Power Collections for .NET, which is now released. According to the web site Power Collections is a “Community Project to Develop the Best Public License Collection Classes for .NET”
Not that many developers are still using .NET anymore. There are a number of new frameworks that have significant advantages over .NET and are much easier to develop for. .NET is soon being remembered as a reminescent of the Y2K era.
Care to elaborate on which those new frameworks are you are talking about and their strenghts?
It is not unusuall for corporations to pay people to spread FUD in forums…
“Generics are like C++ templates, only better.”…? Uh… no!
Not that many developers are using Java anymore. There are a number of new frameworks that significant advantages of Java and are much easier to developer for. Java is too remembered as the COBOL of the Y2K era.
http://www.wintellect.com/powercollections/License.txt
Shared Source ? You will not have my help, for sure.
There is definitely some truth to that. Java is still suffering severe performance problems and comparable C++ code runs usually several times faster even without optimization.
In terms of .NET – yes, totally Y2K. I’ve had my share of experience with it. .NET development can be a real pain and nowadays I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole.
They should make more clear in the website what the heck is “Power Collections for .NET”. And shared source to me sounds like phishing for free labor…
About the “.NET is on the way out”..that’s poor trolling…”not many developers are using .Net anymore”..ROFL. Kid, you may jump from platform to platform whenever you read something cool in a blog, but real business with huge projects won’t drop .Net to start using Ruby on Rails or whatever is the “new stuff” you’re mentioning just like that.
Yes .Net is not perfect, Java is not perfect either, but at the end of the day there’s no silver bullet for really big systems, it’s always a bit of a compromise.
We’d love to see you naming some of those “new stuff” you’re talking about so we can discuss instead of troll.
They should make more clear in the website what the heck is “Power Collections for .NET”
Indeed. I would guess by the name it is some sort of data structures library for .NET.
And shared source to me sounds like phishing for free labor…
Nah, it’s more like “you can look but don’t touch”.
So this “generics” thing… I assume it is just parametric polymorphism, right?
The one characteristic of those who claim that .NET is finished, ‘a real pain’ etc etc, is that they NEVER give any reasons why?
I wonder why that is?
To those who think .NET is dead, they should try for example looking at codeproject, this is largely a .NET community which has 2,152,987 members (as of today) and has to my mind some of the most useful and practical articles for the .NET crowd. If you’re one of the ideologically driven individuals, don’t bother looking it will just upset you unnecessarily.
Those who think that .Net is dead should get a real job and learn that the world is bigger than the stuff they read on blogs and IRC channels.
You’ll never get proper arguments from these anonymous because they haven’t got any…not a surprise they post anonymously, it’s just trolling mixed with wishful thinking.
The smug anti-* warriors band together with their equally specious arguments. Oh how it is that they know not of real jobs. Let us combine forces against them, lest their flawed opinion go unchallenged by vague ad hominem.
Now serioulsy. If a company hire you and say “OK, let’s ditch Java and .Net, they’re on the way out”, what would you suggest to replace them? Django?
Did you just rationalize your baseless discounting of others’ positions with a completely irrelevant question? And to make it more interesting you even included Java, which had nothing to do with the topic.
Yeah I suspected so
You’ve convinced me.
japail, do you have /any/ argument yourself to put, or will just keep saying whose posts you approve or not philosophically and retorically?
You complained about an “ad hominem” argument doing another ad hominem argument, and then complained about an empty question doing another empty question, it’s funny but looks like you don’t have much else to add yourself.
If you will be so kind as to quote where in my post that I attack the person rather than his sophistry, I would be much obliged. There is no argument to be had, simply cheerleading. If you would care to make an argument, then perhaps we could have a discussion. Or you can rah rah about that really clever assault on those straw men.
how about Bonobo? it seems to cover a number of features .NET was trying to address and its fairly easy to code for.
Is this the new running gag?
After many years of analysis, it has been proven that Bo-No-Bo is indeed the framework “null entity”.
The framework of “Bo” combined with its anti-framework, “No-Bo”, sums to the null framework.
As with many other “null entities”, Bo-No-Bo is fascinating to many framework programmers, especially those with a background in abstract mathematics.
Bonobo = Gnome’s idea of COM
From license:
==
B. That you are not allowed to combine or distribute the Software
with other software that is licensed under terms that seek to require
that the Software (or any intellectual property in it) be provided in
source code form, licensed to others to allow the creation or
distribution of derivative works, or distributed without charge.
==
I read that clain 5 times and still have not got it, but is not it a no-no for using in (L)GPL projects?
In that case we sure should say authors bye bye.
We? Speak for yourself… Developers who like real open source are all changing to BSD, MIT… GPL is dead for serious development.
IMHO the biggest problem of linux the GPL. If Qt is not GPL-ed there is not 30 different desktop environment with different look&feel under linux.
The problem with Qt is the people at Trolltech. When this short-sighted company goes bankrupt, someone will step in, buy the ashes, and cast them adrift in the wind.
Qt will be set free as GPL. It is only a matter of time.
Qt is gpl now. It is one of the biggest problems with Qt and KDE (because it is gpl and not Lgpl). But if anybody buy the TrollTech and make Qt LGPL, it doesn’t mean the rejoining the Gnome, KDE, etc. projects to one common (and useable) desktop environment.
For server side Java is still king and is backed by Sun and IBM. So the proprietary Microseft .NET might stand a chance in the desktop, but who cares? Nobody will ever take it seriously as long as it’s a niche product made by the proprietary Microseft corporation.
The future of SUN is very dim, and it is the only one company behind to java. IBM, Oracle, etc also supports java, but this companies also support .NET. And IMHO the microsoft ritcher then SUN and the .NET for microsoft more impartant the the java for SUN – the future of .NET far more certain. And it is very important for bigger companies.
dot net is a replacement for the MFC library and nothing more. It is not JAVA! It may have features similar to java, but it isn’t. I am surprised how many people submit Resumes stating they know DOT NET. That is the equivilent of saying You know PC. DOT NET is a platform without a specific language and an interpreted runtime that no one but the MS execs know where its going.
Compared to DOT NET, MONO seems to be a better platform but its trying to live up to DOT NET.
Yes the Dot Net community is big but at the expense of the MFC community and not neccesarily the JAVA community.
C# is stupid ! It is a M$-proprietary java clone who added all hated stuff from C++: pointers and templates.
Why not use C++ instead ? It is fast, multiplatform, stable and it does not depend from only one company.
.Net == .Not
Now that open source is getting serious in business, everybody is moving away from that viral gpl crap. If calling system calls were considered derivative then linux would be about as important as Hurd.
If you want freedom then you use MIT/X11/BSD.
Yes, look at the freedom of seeing your work “stolen” because with BSD style licenses your work can be included in closed source projects without giving you even credits!
What are the benefits of such a licence?
At least with GPL you own the copyright, and something that YOU made free, will always be free
As the open source community moves further away from the free software community, the GPL is becoming less important because of its viral implications in libraries.
The GPL will evolve to keep pace with how it best can be used to create free software.
Anything less than the GPL does not guarantee free software.
For example, with a lesser license someone can copy the original code, make some changes, and then sue the original author if the author incorporates “similar” changes.
As the “less than GPL” licenses are used more, you will see huge legal problems more and more frequently.
You will also see products from D-Link, Linksys, Apple, etc., where the source code — originally open source — never gets released. You will see source code communities start to die when greed-centric corporations stop giving back to the community.
Today the GPL is not evolving as quickly as it needs to and it is also lacking a “solutions” focus. Hence we see people looking at other licenses because they do not want the hassle of the GPL.
The investment in the hassle of the GPL is the only insurance against warfare-style business. I do hope more people stop being lazy about doing the work to support the GPL.
With a nick like pravda you shouldn’t expect much more than an incoherent ramble.
Anything less than the GPL does not guarantee free software. For example, with a lesser license someone can copy the original code, make some changes, and then sue the original author if the author incorporates “similar” changes.
It should be obvious that his statement is meaningless babble. He might as well have said I can steal your puppy if the original author make similiar changes.
As the “less than GPL” licenses are used more, you will see huge legal problems more and more frequently
Once again, he makes no sense, but he’s “Pravda” so that does make sense.
You will also see products from D-Link, Linksys, Apple, etc., where the source code — originally open source — never gets released. You will see source code communities start to die when greed-centric corporations stop giving back to the community.
Oh, so I thought “the community” didn’t need “evil, proprietary” companies because the open source model was superior. In any case, companies can’t close up code that is under say a MIT/X11 license. The original code always stays free as long its on a hardrive somewhere. Same with GPL. But GPL “advocates” will continue to lie and continue to not be believed.
Today the GPL is not evolving as quickly as it needs to and it is also lacking a “solutions” focus. Hence we see people looking at other licenses because they do not want the hassle of the GPL.
Nobody knows what his “solutions focus” means, so we can chalk that up as more meaningless babble.
The investment in the hassle of the GPL is the only insurance against warfare-style business. I do hope more people stop being lazy about doing the work to support the GPL.
Warfare? You mean competition? – like business is supposed to do. But hey, with a nick like pravda I can see where you’re coming from.
With supporters like pravda, gpl advocates don’t need enemies.
Beyond attacking the GPL and bashing me, did you have a point?
The GPL is needed to preserve code accessibility. Without the GPL, all you have is piracy.
Only a Microsoft employee thinks warfare = competition or piracy = competition. Microsoft has never participated in one iota of genuine competition.
Without a high degree of give and take, the wheels fall off of capitalism very quickly. The GPL is there to make sure there is GIVE as well as TAKE.
>Yes, look at the freedom of seeing your work “stolen” >because with BSD style licenses your work can be >included in closed source projects without giving you >even credits!
But perhaps I want it stolen? All my software is now BSD simply because I want the maximum freedom to be given to the community in all its forms, I don’t care so much for myself.
SharpDevelop is in GPL.
And what real public C# apps are not in GPL, please tell me? What license does Blam, Beagle, etc use?
If I’m right and it’s GPL, stop spreading FUD about GPL’s deadiness.
I can only speak from experience. I’ve been making a living on .NET for 4 years now and demand is only growing…
Where did this silly ass rumor start about .NET “dying out”?
It’s pretty amazing how a post titled “Power Collections for .NET Released” can be belittled into a license flamewar. Get over yourselves people and just write software…that’s what we get paid to do. If the license doesn’t suit you, roll your own solution under your license of choice.
Why all the negativity about .NET?
If you don’t like it, don’t use it. But don’t try to convince me that it’s dead.
I’m in the business for about 2.5 years, and I can tell you: .NET is far from dead. I make a living of it. And don’t give me that crap that .NET can’t be used on a server: it’s great for both client and server. And with the new 2.0 version, they solved a lot of problems that existed with the 1.1 version.
I like .NET, and I like the .NET community. You can say anything about Microsoft, but I think they’ve improved a lot lately. They’ve become very open to developers, they listen to developers and improve their products, based on the feedback of developers.
Just look at ‘Channel 9’ ( http://channel9.msdn.com ). I’ve never seen a community site like Channel 9, sponsored and hosted by Microsoft. The videos and interviews you find there really show you how people work at Microsoft. A lot of Microsoft employees hang out at the Channel 9 forums. You can talk directly to those who have influence at Microsoft, who actually develop the products.
They even give reasons for certain decisions that Microsoft makes, that are controversial.
Is IBM that open? Is Sun that open? Is Apple that open?
I don’t think so.
Because .NET, Channel 9, and pretty much everything else Microsoft offers was stolen from other companies.
I think that if Microsoft actually invented something themselves, it would be received without the negativity.
Until that point, the bad karma of thievery will always give rise to opposition.
Everything is “stolen” from other things. C++ from C, C from other languages, java from C++, OpenOffice from M$ Office, etc. IMHO it is the biggest problem of the software patents, but it is not only M$ and .NET problem.
This gets tiring. I use the word “steal” because of its meaning. Microsoft had to pay Sun nearly $1 billion for Microsoft’s illegal use of Java patents. That is stealing.
“Channel 9” and numerous other technologies were also stolen. We simply have not seen the lawsuits yet.
Patents are a problem and Microsoft is the main source of this problem. They are stockpiling patents and trying to subvert the patent system so they can steal and get away with it by launching lawsuits (from their other patents) against anyone who accuses them of stealing.
Microsoft is by far the very worst technology company that has ever existing. They are evil.
OK, I’ll bite..
>>”Channel 9″ and numerous other technologies were also stolen. We simply have not seen the lawsuits yet.
Stolen from what?
Zealots get up my nose… I find it amusing the amount of comments saying .NET is dead. I’ve worked in the industry for 7 years as both a .NET and java sofware engineer, at the moment jobs for java and .NET are in thier abundance. I’ve failed to spot any positions for Ruby, Python or any of the like. why? because they have no “real” big players backing them.
And to the comment saying java is king on the server, that maybe, but that’s not a reason to say .NET is crap on the server. I find it pretty awesome in fact, although there’s alot of things I don’t like about ASP.NET. I’m currently deploying a solution that cross compliles across our servers, 100’s of desktops and 100’s handheld CE platforms. I’d like to see us be able to achieve that level of integration with Java, in fact I would probably just kill myself if I was asked to lol. Just goes theres plenty of ways of skinning a cat (so to speak).