OSNews:

OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/18775/Mac_OS_X_Leopard_To_Ship_October_26th Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:55:03 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Horray! http://osnews.com/thread?278634 http://osnews.com/thread?278634 I'm really happy with this news and cannot wait to test new OSX. However I am still going to use Thunderbird instead of Mail.app since the latter (still) cannot do propper mail threading.

Kind regards, Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ikeX) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?278649 http://osnews.com/thread?278649 I've read some truly messed up comments up and down the web today. Here's some salvo's to ward off the stupidity landing here.

a) A number is not more important than actual functions. Calling Leopard a "point release" is dumb. Windows is after all just as much a "point release". Windows 2000 -> NT 5.0, Windows XP -> 5.1, Windows 2003 -> NT 5.2. Point is moot.

ii.) The 300 number is a little stretched, but not totally devoid like some try to make it out. Here's a list of genuinely serious features:

* UI recording for Automator. Make OS macros just by point and click. No such thing in Vista.

* Spring-loaded dock. The dock finally gets the Windows feature of being able to drag objects onto a minimized window! Hurrah, finally.

* Wikipedia in the Dictionary app. A system wide dictionary is joy. No such thing in Vista.

* Japanese «» English dictionary. This is a big thing for someone like me, and even if you never use it, it's still a big accomplishment for Apple to create, and include in the OS. No such thing in Vista

* Chapter thumbnails in DVD player, Automatic pillerbox removal, scratched disc recovery. No such thing in Vista.

* Screen sharing. Only present as a client app in certain versions of Windows.

* System Font Protection. Delete fonts willy nilly and don't worry about accidentally deleting your defaults. Vista kind of does this by annoying you so much with the UAC that you wouldn't /want/ to delete fonts.

* CalDev Group Scheduling in iCal. No such thing in Vista, go buy Outlook.

* Photobooth and backround effects in iChat, no such thing in MSN.

* Simple mail setup. POP details auto filled for 30 popular mail services. Go fish in Windows Mail.

* More photobooth features, like animations and backdrops. Nothing like this in Vista

* Better preview, better PDF features (Vista doesn't even support this out-of-the-box), "instant-alpha".

* Printer updates via Software Update! Hurrah. Windows users have to live with ten items from HP in their startup list.

* Download tagging - a somewhat annoying feature from XP, now present on Leopard. Sandboxing, present in Vista, Apple have now catched up on this one; that said Apple are not the ones dealing with hundreds of thousands of virii and malware.

* Spaces. No such thing in Vista.

* Calculations in the search field. No such thing in vista

* Dictionary definitions in the search field. No such thing in Vista.

* OOXML support in TextEdit. That would be like WordPad having .docx support. Do you think that is *ever* going to happen? Not when Microsoft can sell you Office.

* Time Machine. Backup that just f*cking works. For regular people. VSC != Time Machine, go do some research before even bringing VSC up.

* Accessibility that goes beyond everything in Windows

* XCode3. The full IDE provided with the OS. No Express editions, no silly EULAs restricting you to toy making. XCode3 is a serious piece of kit, now with DTrace. Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments education pricing http://osnews.com/thread?278657 http://osnews.com/thread?278657 In the past the educational pricing for OS X has been around $69 dollars in the US. I've just noticed that for Leopard it's $116 - a whole $13 discount from the normal price. Oh well. Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (oma2la) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?278658 http://osnews.com/thread?278658

VSC != Time Machine, go do some research before even bringing VSC up.

Exactly. VSC is much more advanced than Time Machine. It just doesn't sport the flying star UI. Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Thom_Holwerda) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?278663 http://osnews.com/thread?278663 Guh, this is what I meant. Time Machine is a piece of backup software, VSC is versioning software. These are not the same things. Please go back to backup 101.

Mac OS X already supports versioning, but just not as well as VSC; which only has a UI on the most expensive versions of Vista, and even then - it is not a regular user backup solution.

These two things are so disparate it only dumbfounds me that people can think VSC is "better" than time machine. Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments RE: education pricing http://osnews.com/thread?278667 http://osnews.com/thread?278667 Well, the dollar has changed in value since initial Mac OS X pricing in 2001, a lot. Mac OS X has been getting cheaper year on year. I suppose they have decided to make up for this by raising education prices instead of retail prices. Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278674 http://osnews.com/thread?278674 £85 for leopard, makes Vista look like a right ripoff. Oh sorry correction, it was anyway.

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore/ Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (SlackerJack) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?278676 http://osnews.com/thread?278676 And the full list can be found here :

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Tyr.) Comments RE: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278677 http://osnews.com/thread?278677 Bargain price. Here's a retail copy of Vista Ultimate http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MS-VUR £351.32 ($713.88)

And you'll need to contact Microsoft to get a 64-bit disc, because Leopard comes with 64-bit and 32-bit versions together.

Such value for money. Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments RE[2]: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278679 http://osnews.com/thread?278679 And with Leopard, everyone gets the ultimate version .. lol priceless :-) Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Cass) Comments Nice iCal improvements http://osnews.com/thread?278681 http://osnews.com/thread?278681 Finally it seems as if they've made iCal usable as a serious Calendar application. Apparently you can actually set a default alarm now, and it also has numerous Outlook features (Auto Pick, Availability, Delegation, etc). Nice. Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Super King) Comments Top Secret... http://osnews.com/thread?278685 http://osnews.com/thread?278685 My biggest decision is going to be, do I upgrade Tiger or blow it away and install Leopard fresh. For whatever reason, a fresh install always "feels" better... Hmmm...

Just one other thing, last year Jobs said there were going to be Top Secret new features he wasn't able to show back then. What were these? Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (thavith_osn) Comments RE: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278689 http://osnews.com/thread?278689 Not only that but for that price you'll actually get an OS that won't run out of memory when copying files unlike its "competition" ( http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=829 ) Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Tyr.) Comments RE[2]: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278690 http://osnews.com/thread?278690 Said bug was caused by third party software. It's one thing to beat Vista down, but let's not make up lies about its mother.

Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments Anyone heard about Java 6 support yet? http://osnews.com/thread?278691 http://osnews.com/thread?278691 I have already pre-ordered mine, but I am curious to know if anyone has heard about Java 6 support in in this release yet.Edited 2007-10-16 23:13 Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (acidblue) Comments RE[3]: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278697 http://osnews.com/thread?278697 Said bug was caused by third party software. It's one thing to beat Vista down, but let's not make up lies about its mother.

I understand it's a bug in the way file streams are handled which are rarely used in Windows except by said third party app. Still, have you tried copying a large amount of files under Vista ? Slow as molasses. People using Vista are using special software to handle copying a large number of files (robocopy apparently.)

You won't have that in OsX not only do the basics work in the gui as advertised but if I want some more power I can just drop into the cli and pipe two tar's together to copy files with optional compression. Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Tyr.) Comments RE[4]: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278701 http://osnews.com/thread?278701 I was trying to unzip 400MB in Vista. It was quoting over one hour to complete. I installed WinRAR, and unzipped the file in three minutes. Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments RE: Top Secret... http://osnews.com/thread?278705 http://osnews.com/thread?278705 Didn't you hear? The Top Secret feature is that Leopard will be based on the NT kernel

Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (rayiner) Comments RE: Top Secret... http://osnews.com/thread?278709 http://osnews.com/thread?278709 Nay, it's the new Apple Genuine Advantage tool! To prevent malware before it happens, Apple have DRMd every part of the OS. Every CPU instruction is wrapped in a 128-Bit AES cypher to gaurantee that only Genuine code can run on the system.

All third party software has to be submitted to a verification programme (fees apply), which is only valid for one version (all software updates require further verification and digital signing), and will run only on the original computer the software was installed on - for a limited period, depending upon Internet connection for regular audits.

Apple Genuine Advantage provides Mac OS X users with the real enhanced and enabling experience that isn't present on dangerously open, unsafe and unverified systems such as Linux.

Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?278721 http://osnews.com/thread?278721 ODF and OOXML in TextEdit.

Personally, ODF in TextEdit will be a big hit for OS X and Linux clients that will grow in collaboration. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tyrione) Comments RE: education pricing http://osnews.com/thread?278724 http://osnews.com/thread?278724 Update: From MacRumors

Education institution pricing is still $69, including for Leopard. Institutional pricing is what departmental components of universities pay for the product.

Universities can still choose to resell Leopard in their own stores for $69, since that is the institutional price. For example, Leopard will still be sold to indivuduals, including faculty, staff, and students, at the University of Wisconsin-Madison for $69.

The $116 is for individual home/office use who have a valid university id. You could be taking one class for your university and work full-time and want this for home use. You pay it for $116. Or, you go to your institute and request they get Institutional level pricing and it's up to them if they want to make the resale value $69. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tyrione) Comments RE: Anyone heard about Java 6 support yet? http://osnews.com/thread?278725 http://osnews.com/thread?278725 It's been in beta status for a long time on Tiger. Don't be surprised it gets updated within Xcode 3.0. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tyrione) Comments Not too exciting ... http://osnews.com/thread?278729 http://osnews.com/thread?278729 Wikipedia integration. (A) 10.4 already has this on the Dashboard. (B) Online resources don't count as a feature (for me) since I can just load it up in a web browser anyway.

Grapher is wonderful, but doesn't fit in with the rest of the system with AppleScript or Automator. This prevents me from doing really neat stuff. Grapher is also buggy and needs to be fixed. (Also, why is Grapher in Utilities.) Apple, please fix Grapher!

Yeah, there are nice touches. Not sure if they're worth a hundred bucks though. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MacTO) Comments Install on older machines? http://osnews.com/thread?278734 http://osnews.com/thread?278734 Has anybody gotten any confirmation as to whether or not Leopard will install on a 867 MHz G4 TiBook?

Which platforms are actually prevented from installing, or can Leopard be installed but just not run as well? Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ThunderBug) Comments RE: Top Secret... http://osnews.com/thread?278747 http://osnews.com/thread?278747 Wow, replying to my own comment...

Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of the 300 or so new features are very welcome and some are worth the price of Leopard by themselves. I am looking forward to XCode, IB and DTrace, Time Machine (which is nothing like what Vista has), faster performance of gfx, Spaces and so on.

Not so fussed about Quick Look however, but a friend of mine loves it. It may grow on me.

The new look of the dock is wierd too.

I had a good play with a Leopard build a few months back (back when it was still slow and gfxs were all over the place, esp. in apps like ichat and photoBooth). I loved Mail.app, Spaces, sharing on the network and just lots of little things...

From what I have read and seen, I think Leopard will be well worth the money. Their are OS's out there at 3 times the price for nowhere near the same level of bang per buck.

But the question comes back, what was the Top Secret stuff that Jobs wasn't able to tell us back in August last year. I wonder if he's still to announce it/them, prob. not, but a thought still the same :-) Wed, 17 Oct 2007 04:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (thavith_osn) Comments Just a thought http://osnews.com/thread?278755 http://osnews.com/thread?278755 How come every release of Mac OS X has 300+ features. Since I can remember I think it was Panther (Mac OS X 10.3), each upgrade has 300 odd new features, whats up with the 300 obsession. Don't get me wrong, love the fact Leopard is going to have awesome features upgrades and new features, but was just wondering about the number 300.Edited 2007-10-17 05:29 Wed, 17 Oct 2007 05:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (vikramsharma) Comments RE[3]: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278764 http://osnews.com/thread?278764 Said bug was caused by third party software. It's one thing to beat Vista down, but let's not make up lies about its mother.

The 3rd party app (coughkasperskycough) exacerbated the problem, that is to say it made it worse, but it didn't cause it. The underlying issue is a Windows bug.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/942435/en-us says
"When you try to copy files from a Windows Vista-based computer to another computer by using Windows Explorer, you may receive the following error message:
Out of memory
There is not enough memory to complete this operation.
...
This problem occurs because of a memory leak in the Windows OLE component. This memory leak is triggered by the way that Windows Explorer deals with the extended attributes of the files. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 06:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MamiyaOtaru) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?278767 http://osnews.com/thread?278767 You know, I run both Linux (OpenSUSE 10.3) and Windows (XP), but I must say this Leopard thing looks like it will be very pleasant to use; lots of practical touches like the To-Do feature in the mail client, calculations in the spotlight thing, stacks and auto-downloads to the downloads folder (I always create such a folder myself anyways), ... I must admit it all looks pretty sharp (although I don't like the fact that there are no sideways borders around certain apps, looks ugly IMO)

Also, now that you mention Automator, I see it's not any longer in the list with features on Apple's webpages... and when I search for it on Apple's website I get an error 404.

It's a shame, I really wanted to take another look at it.Edited 2007-10-17 06:43 Wed, 17 Oct 2007 06:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Darkelve) Comments Sligthly OT: New MacBook? http://osnews.com/thread?278773 http://osnews.com/thread?278773 Slightly off topic, but does anyone here knows if Apple is planning to update the (non-pro) MacBooks in the near feature (for instance, before the end of the year)? A friend of mine may be planning to buy a MacBook so I'd like to know if I should advice her to wait or to buy. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Erunno) Comments RE[2]: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278779 http://osnews.com/thread?278779 You are forgetting a few things:

a) Microsoft fixed it so that you only need to buy the upgrade version. Nobody needs to spend that amount for Ultimate. Microsoft has no intention of 'unfixing' this anytime soon.

b) Shop around and you can get this much more cheaply. Apple does not offer OEM versions, for one.

c) Retail versions come with both disks, so no need to contact Microsoft. I know; I am running Ultimate on my MBP.

d) Students will not be paying anything like $116 for Ultimate. Discounts are more generous, here.

e) Microsoft supports many more native languages out of the box. This is a big deal for me, and the only reason I got Vista over XP. With Leopard, you get Russian, Polish and Iberian Portuguese over Tiger. Big whoop. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (weckart) Comments RE: Sligthly OT: New MacBook? http://osnews.com/thread?278789 http://osnews.com/thread?278789 Personally, I think Apple hold off any new Mac hardware anouncements until MacWorld (January 14 through the 19th, 2008). Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Malakim) Comments RE[3]: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278793 http://osnews.com/thread?278793 No, let's compare like for like:

a) Leopard ships as a non-upgrade disc so that it can be installed on a blank hard disk. Upgrade Vista is not a comparable version therefore.

b) You can shop around for Leopard too, Amazon are selling it cheaply. But £300 is par for course and that still doesn't compare to Leopard

c) Okay. I just went by the eBuyer page that warned that you would need to contact Microsoft - also you don't get the extra disc with the home versions, so Leopard still trounces Vista here

d) There's been confusion over the education price. It is still $69. Even if Vista is cheaper on education, Leopard is still a better OS

e) Leopard now supports Russion, Polish and Iberian Portugese. XP didn't have more than one language on the disc, at least Tiger supported 20 odd languages whilst XP users had to buy new discs to change language. Tiger / Leopard have better localisation features regardless. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?278795 http://osnews.com/thread?278795 I personally think it's good because I won't have to run OpenOffice.org on Mac OS X just for ODF files. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments RE[2]: Top Secret... http://osnews.com/thread?278821 http://osnews.com/thread?278821 That was funny... you must have been channeling Balmer for that. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anim8me2) Comments leopard http://osnews.com/thread?278824 http://osnews.com/thread?278824 I am so happy =)

I can't wait to install it on my MacBook - and the really great thing: it IS even faster! =) Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (SK8T) Comments RE[2]: Top Secret... http://osnews.com/thread?278825 http://osnews.com/thread?278825 "Just one other thing, last year Jobs said there were going to be Top Secret new features he wasn't able to show back then. What were these?"

1. Smoke
2. Mirrors

But in all seriousness, I don't think any new features will appear anymore... too late for that, methinks. If they will, I'd be quite (pleasantly) surprised though. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Darkelve) Comments Paralells? http://osnews.com/thread?278872 http://osnews.com/thread?278872 Did anybody test Paralells 3.x on a Leopard Beta? I depend upon Paralles for daily work. I wouldn't want to install it if Paralells doesn't work. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 16:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Gryzor) Comments RE[4]: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278879 http://osnews.com/thread?278879 Thats kroc (pardon the intended pun), the Vista upgrade edition is the same as the standard disk, except that you need to enter a key from an old version of Windows. Vista Upgrade Editions are comparable with Mac OS X, as they do not offer any non-upgrade editions. You must own a previous version of the Mac OS (the one included with your Mac) in order to purchase the next one. And saying Leopard is a better OS then Vista doesn't make it true, neither does the supposed better localization features of Leopard. I'm personally one to hate Windows myself, but that is just a horrible comparison. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 16:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aent) Comments RE: Paralells? http://osnews.com/thread?278893 http://osnews.com/thread?278893 http://parallelsvirtualization.blogspot.com/2007/10/parallels-deskt... Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments RE[5]: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278895 http://osnews.com/thread?278895 The fact that your having to explain this shows how confusing Vista's version are. Both companies want to make money dont get me wrong, but charging £200-£350 for a OS that goes on 90% of machines is scandalous . Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (SlackerJack) Comments RE: Just a thought http://osnews.com/thread?278931 http://osnews.com/thread?278931

How come every release of Mac OS X has 300+ features.

Never undestimate the ultimate power of the marketing department. They are counting each silly little thing to reach the 300. If you're looking for significant features the number will be *a lot* smaller.

Well, i don't care if Crapple manges to build a faster OS faster, please, faster, please faster. Will the new finder handle 10.000 files per folders in a blink of an eye? I doubt this.Edited 2007-10-17 21:04 Wed, 17 Oct 2007 21:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (asr4096) Comments RE[5]: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?278940 http://osnews.com/thread?278940 Actually my Windows Vista Business upgrade requires that I have a Windows XP install already accomplished...which requires me to put my windows 98 disc in during the upgrade.

It's hardly as convenient as me just putting the "upgrade" disc in the drive and installing like Mac OSX has allowed me to do since 10.1. Wed, 17 Oct 2007 21:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aesiamun) Comments RE: leopard http://osnews.com/thread?279020 http://osnews.com/thread?279020 LOL Thu, 18 Oct 2007 04:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Tuishimi) Comments re: http://osnews.com/thread?279041 http://osnews.com/thread?279041

* Screen sharing. Only present as a client app in certain versions of Windows.

And in Windows Live Messenger which doesn't cost anything and works on the most current OS and the previous one.

* Printer updates via Software Update! Hurrah. Windows users have to live with ten items from HP in their startup list.

What are you bragging about? Vista gets driver updates via Windows Update all the time.

Guh, this is what I meant. Time Machine is a piece of backup software, VSC is versioning software. These are not the same things. Please go back to backup 101.

Mac OS X already supports versioning, but just not as well as VSC; which only has a UI on the most expensive versions of Vista, and even then - it is not a regular user backup solution.

These two things are so disparate it only dumbfounds me that people can think VSC is "better" than time machine.

FYI, Vista includes backup software based on VSC. Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Gzzy) Comments RE: automator http://osnews.com/thread?279167 http://osnews.com/thread?279167 Okay... so I finally found it. Here is the link on Apple's site in case anyone else is interested (since most other links to automator on Apple's website do not work... I believe it had a seperate page before but somehow that is gone).

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html#automator Edited 2007-10-18 19:14 Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Darkelve) Comments RE[4]: Leopard uk Price http://osnews.com/thread?279256 http://osnews.com/thread?279256 "a) Leopard ships as a non-upgrade disc so that it can be installed on a blank hard disk. Upgrade Vista is not a comparable version therefore. "

Vista upgrade can be installed on a blank hard disk, it just asked for a product key from an upgradable product. Fri, 19 Oct 2007 02:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (BluenoseJake) Comments RE[2]: Anyone heard about Java 6 support yet? http://osnews.com/thread?279457 http://osnews.com/thread?279457 Apple, at one point, took down the beta from the developer.apple.com site. Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (acidblue) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?279460 http://osnews.com/thread?279460 How is time machine NOT versioning? Vista simply has two tools to fit the same space, one for versioning, the other for backup.

There are two major differences between the two.

1) Time machine plunges you into a temporal vortex with folders cascading back to the big bang, which you can see throbbing in the background. Shadow copy is a tab in the properties dialog.

2) Time machine REQUIRES an external hard drive. Shadow Copy works on your existing one.

If you want to see the regular user backup solution for vista, it is here http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/det...,
the slightly misleadingly named Windows Backup and Restore Center. Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (google_ninja) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?279493 http://osnews.com/thread?279493 A backup on the same disk is not a backup at all.

Time Machine allows you to do full search queries through the entire history, VSC does not because VSC is just a versioning system like Journalling on HFS+ is. Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?279613 http://osnews.com/thread?279613

A backup on the same disk is not a backup at all.

...which is why I pointed out that this is the backup solution for vista (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/det...)

VSC does not because VSC is just a versioning system like Journalling on HFS+ is.

Journaling on HFS+ is a crash recovery mechanism so that the file tables arent fragged due to an unanticipated power loss. That is not versioning. Versioning keeps multiple versions of the same document available to you. This is what both shadow copy and time machine does. Time machine is meant to be a backup solution TOO, which is why an external HD is required. The Vista way is you have versioning and your backup system as two separate processes.

Which is a better idea is up for debate. Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (google_ninja) Comments