Linux guru and convicted murdered Hans Reiser was handed a prison sentence of 15-to-life Friday, putting a final capstone on a case that began as a murder mystery, and ended with Reiser leading police to a makeshift grave a short distance from where he strangled his wife.
..but he should have gotten a few years more.
Get with the program, WereCatf. From the user comments on that article:
“””
well i think i speak for the whole linux community when i say i will be very saddened to see him behind bars and am going to try to get him an OLPC laptop so he can continue work on reiser4
Posted by: freereiser | Aug 29, 2008 3:17:40 PM
“””
You really have to wonder about some people. He “thinks he speaks for the whole linux community”. Now, while I’m not one to put on reverent and respectful airs and criticize others for daring to comment frankly upon, for example, what this whole drama means for Reiser4… and while I am, perhaps, too much of a Linux fan for my own good… how, how, how can people like “freereiser”, above, maintain such a distorted perspective?
Edited 2008-08-30 14:32 UTC
You really have to wonder about some people. He “thinks he speaks for the whole linux community”. Now, while I’m not one to put on reverent and respectful airs and criticize others for daring to comment frankly upon, for example, what this whole drama means for Reiser4… and while I am, perhaps, too much of a Linux fan for my own good… how, how, how can people like “freereiser”, above, maintain such a distorted perspective?
I did notice the same comment there and I can’t help but shake my head at disbelief. Hans Reiser is just one programmer and he didn’t create even Reiser3 by himself. There was loads of programmers doing the code and sharing their thoughts. He is just as replaceable as anyone else, and I hear he had a terrible attitude towards others making group work very difficult. And being a Linux guru and coder makes his crime not a bit less horrible. I’ve come to actually expect better from all the brilliant minds behind the software I use, most of them are intelligent, well-behaved and would never ever commit such things.
yeah, if anything. the reiser filesystem might progress better without him.
I agree his crime is terrible, and I agree he should be punished severely.
But I disagree that he’s replaceable. Some people are just more talented than others at certain things. Reiser happens to be particularly talented at designing and implementing filesystems. It’s named after him for a reason…
But that certainly doesn’t mean he should get off lightly.
Because software is more important than human lives [to a zealot]. Indeed, very broken perspective.
OH, Jesus, nevermind. This thread is sickening and I don’t want to have any part of it.
Suffice it to say that sbergman is correct again, as usual.
Edited 2008-08-31 15:14 UTC
Hey come on now, he’s clearly as innocent as OJ Simpson.
I remember reading if they found any bullet-in-the-back-of-the-head type stuff there would be no deal, so I guess they bought into the crime of passion thing? OtherwisE I’m not sure why’d they’d cut his sentence like that just for a body.
I’m sure Mr. Reiser is going to come off as particularly sympathetic when up for parole. Not.
Edited 2008-08-30 13:59 UTC
They cut his sentence because he dropped his right to appeal meaning the state saves money. There’s also almost no chance that he’ll be paroled after only 15 years. Maybe if he had plead guilty initially and shown remorse, but he did neither.
Yes, it would’ve helped to RTFA. 🙂
It wasn’t really a crime of passion: that usually means something like a husband coming home to find his wife with another man, and shooting one of them.
Reiser apparently killed Nina over an argument about their sons doctor. He has a short temper, and I don’t honestly believe 15 years is anything like long enough for what he did.
What is the point in punishing a man just for the sake of punishment?
Prison is supposed to be for rehabilitation, not to throw a bunch of people together so they can rape and kill each other because of their previous crimes.
Rehabilitation is for drug addicts and people who commit petty crimes, not for murderers. In my opinion there is only one punishment suited for an act as selfish as intentionally taking someone’s life and I’ll let you take a guess at what that is…
No amount of a rehabilitation is going to change the fact that he robbed a person of the greatest gift you, me or anybody else has ever been given and there is no amount of remorse or “sorry’s” that will ever give back what that man has taken away.
Then why not just kill them all?
Why should I pay tax dollars to keep non-‘petty’ criminals alive if they are not being rehabilitated?
Don’t try to twist my words. We are talking about a man who intentionally took another persons life. How about we let him come stay with you when he gets done with his 15 year rehab in a state penitentiary.
That is exactly my point.
Its really sad that when people think the sole reason for prison is rehabilitation. Prison is first and foremost about Justice.
If he only serves 15 years I hardly think their is much justice in that after all he ended his wife’s life.
That is very much a matter of opinion. I’m not a big fan of the punishment aspect; It serves little constructive purpose except as, perhaps, a part of rehabilitation.
I see three goals for the penal system:
1. It should keep dangerous people from harming others again.
2. It should provide opportunities for rehabilitation and continued contribution to society, within the limits of #1.
3. It should not make the person even more willing (and able) to do harm if ever given the chance.
Where does punishment really fit in there? ‘Justice’ is just another high sounding word that means nothing until you nail down an agreed upon definition.
Edited 2008-08-30 19:44 UTC
Good points. In an ideal civilized society constructive rehabilition of criminals and turning them from negative behavior models to positive ones should be favored instead of revengeful punishment.
But the penal system works also as a deterrent, preventing crimes in advance. Even if you felt tempted to hurt someone, the resulting punishment should make you feel too afraid to do so. In that sense the penal system shouldn’t look to soft or it might lose its effect. Even bad psychopaths won’t usually continue doing stupid things if they learn through the hard way that they are going to get severely punished for it.
Does the provision, or not, for the death penalty in a state affect the murder rate?
Can anyone from Texas answer this one?
I suppose the murder rate is related more to the culture and the society and its in problems in general (like social injustice, or a culture where guns and violence is favored and even admired as a solution to social problems).
As to death penalty as a punishment, personally I’ve always been against it and cannot see how it helps preventing crimes in any way. I have no stats to back this up right now, but I’m also pretty sure that often those countries that use death penalty are also having bigger crime rates than countries where death penalty is forbidden.
Also, many criminals might be so frustrated with their life that a death penalty could even come as a relief to them only, instead of being a serious punishment? Better to make them sit and think about their actions in a prison for a few years, preferably in such conditions where they also go through some kind of a rehabilitation program too.
Edited 2008-08-31 11:30 UTC
Death penalty is the most extreme case of penalty system, and not a good example of the effectiveness of the normal penalty system as a deterrent of crimes in general. Also, in almost all European countries death penalty is already forbidden and so rather considered a crime in itself than a proper way to treat criminals.
But just consider the much milder penalties for traffic offenses, for example. Isn’t it pretty clear that more people think twice before they drive car too fast or go driving a car when they are drunk because they may have to pay for that kind of foolishness? As a result probably much fewer people die or get hurt in traffic accidents than would be the case otherwise, without the penalty system for traffic offenses.
Justice is an extremely subjective term.
What is justice to a victim’s assailant is not necessarily justice to some random on-looker.
Prison was first and foremost a holding place until a person’s actual punishment was done and was not part of the punishment.
What is the point of imprisoning someone only to release them a more violent person than when they got there? Prisons are to protect the law abiding populace from the non-law abiding populace, and as such part of that protection should be making sure that when released that person is not going to break the law again.
Up until the 1950’s or 60’s prison was a place to put society’s worst without thought of rehabilitating them. The idea was to make prison a place you don’t want to go back to. I honestly have no problem with warehousing people who refuse to live civilly among an innocent populace. This is one of those stories where you keep giving the benefit of the doubt until there is no doubt. He should have gotten more.
How do you rehabilitate a murderer? You can’t bring the person they murdered back to life. In this case, prison is nothing more than a punishment and the only real question is what price a human life?
by that reasoning you cannot rehabilitate anything.
rehabilitation is like learning in school. you can at least try, but there’s always a change you just don’t get it.
if that ‘thing’ is to not murder somebody, that’s the point where i start suggesting a mental hospital.
put the point is (for both society and the murderer in this case) that you should at least TRY.
Sure, but prison is also punishment. The ratio of rehabilitation to punishment should depend on the crime: drug-related crimes are a prime candidate for being mostly about rehabilitation, while crimes such as murder should be more about punishment.
My point still stands: what is the price of a human life? Apparently in this case it is 15 years. Is that too much, or not enough? Where do you draw the line? Would 1 year be “enough”? 30?
No, he was found guilty to first degree murder, which means that it was premeditated. So it would seem that got himself a pretty good deal with 15 to life. Or maybe there were some circumstances that convinced the prosecution to offer him this deal. Probably the body was important to the prosecution and Nina’s friend and relatives, who hopefully can get some closure now and start healing.
Edited 2008-08-30 15:53 UTC
After an agreement he was sentenced to second degree murder, or at least that is what i understand from the article.
is a sad story, expecilly for his son.
He has two kids, not one.
My pary are with the father, who lost his chrilden.
For those that don’t know:
http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf
Not sadder than for any other son on the planet who’s father has gone to jail. Probably a lot less really.
bye bye Reiser File System
Edited 2008-08-30 15:24 UTC
bye bye Reiser File System
Reiser3 is not only made by Hans Reiser. As said, it has been developed by a large group of developers. And it’s a good, solid filesystem. It has not committed any crimes. Reiser4 doesn’t seem to have gotten much wind under its wings anyway, this doesn’t probably change that. So, I will probably continue using reiser3 until something better comes along. But just for the sake of a principle I’ll steer clear from anything new that Hans Reiser comes up in the future.
Well, a real man faces the consequences of his actions.
I’d advice him not to drop his soap.
Rape isn’t funny.
“Thats the way it had to be.
They locked him up and threw away the key.
Well, I cant take pity on men of his kind,
Even though he now takes it in the behind.”
– Sublime ( http://sublimespot.com/sublime/lyrics/?ID=11 )
But yeah, not a lot about prison is funny. Too bad he did something that landed him there. He could have avoided it pretty easily (by not killing someone).
No, normal on the street rape is not funny. But on occasion it is hilarious to know that a man who murdered his wife will have a boyfriend (or many) in prison.
…unless you get raped by a clown.
Tried finding the shirt from tshirthell.com so I could link to it…must have stopped selling that one.
Too bad there is not a “-1 in poor taste.” My sympathies go to their children and Nina’s family but anal rape is neither a fit punishment or a joking matter.
Edited 2008-08-30 16:29 UTC
While rape in itself is not funny, that is a funny comment, Thom, and in fact many comedians will use something similar in their routines. Don’t let the anti-Thom brigade bring you down.
On the other hand, that speaks to the prison system here in the USA if someone from Europe knows the “prison culture” (real or imagined) that exists here.
Another poster mentioned “what’s the point of prison?” Is it for punishment? Or is it for rehabilitation? I think it should be a little of both, personally. Punishment, but by having prisoners work on something that contributes back to society. Road work, farming, SOMETHING. Some form of hands-on work that is tiring but productive. Teaches them skills, food or roads or what-have-you goes back to people who need it, and how has good, hard work ever hurt anyone? It provides a sense of accomplishment to complete a task… good workout… good all around. (Of course there would be exceptions to the rule with crazed, psychopathic killers and such.)
There is a difference in discussing it online, in song, or in a comedy routine in a general sense and suggesting it occurring to a specific person. Further, many comedy routines are based upon the shock factor of the subject and say things in jest that most people would not bring up in polite conversation.
The goal of OS News is polite conversation, not shock comedy, so I still feel it is in poor taste and not appropriate for an OSNews thread.
EDIT: And I am hardly part of the Anti-Thom brigade, look through my history. This is the first time I can think of where I have been critical of him. I do not let who made a comment influence my comments to the positive or negative, I simply react to what I read.
Edited 2008-08-30 20:32 UTC
LOL! OR should I say ROTFLMAO re: polite discussion on this forum. And how long have you been reading OSNews? Holy cow, there is a Linux vs. Windows vs. Mac OS X bash fest every other day. And the entire content of the thread is personal attacks.
And I disagree regarding it being too distasteful a comment that rarely comes up in casual conversations.
Or I am a redneck. Which is quite possible.
I have likely been reading OS News a whole lot longer than you (9 or 10 years, pretty much since the beginning). I said the goal is polite conversation, not that it was always achieved. Compared to /. or digg though we are tame bunch.
While flames do occur personal attacks are discouraged. Fervent debate on OS I would consider par for the course, not even really inflammatory.
While I suppose suggesting that someone who breaks the law deserves to be violated by another man might fall under polite conversation for some it does not to me.
What Mr. Reiser did was extremely wrong and he deserves to be punished, either by living the rest of his life in prison or by being executed humanely. However no one should be tortured and humiliated in the name of retribution or rehabilitation. Going down that road is to gaze into the abyss.
You are right. I apologize.
Well behaved prisoners, guys working off fines, etc etc, do lots of work for the city here. Road cleanup, construction etc. I’m all for “chain gangs”
Lets them get out of the prison and have something constructive to do.
When the individual in question does not have the empathetic capacity to trace back and deconstruct their actions and the reason for why what they did was wrong (through the effect of their actions) then the punishment will be a waste of time. If the cannot make the link between the punishment, their actions and why what they did is wrong – they’ll simply view that the punishment as society ganging up on them and it’ll turn into bitter resentment and hatred towards society. Fast forward after 15 years of ‘punishment’ and see what the net result of that individual is when there is an attempt to re-integrate them back into society.
I’m sure there will be some hard ass alpha male chest betters around here with their violence against criminals will solve the problem. Too bad that as a society our criminal system design is based on an emotional response where by politicians base policies on populist methods rather than ones that work (and appear to be ‘soft’ according to the noisy wheel within society).
Unless the person who goes into the system and comes out in 15 years (or what his or her sentence) is a changed person, the money spent incarcerating the individual is a waste of tax payers money. Reminds me very much of the saying that a society should be judged on how they treat their criminals.
Edited 2008-08-31 08:53 UTC
Given the current state of technology, rehabilitation is an impossible goal. On Babylon 5, they had the right idea: Erase your personality from your brain and replace it with one that contributes good works to society.
In this case I’m 100% behind Thom. In situations like these there’s nothing but joking you can do. There’s nothing but sorrow or upmost sadness in this. Hans Reiser is a sub-human that by giving up the rights of a fellow being deserves nothing but psin. Kudos to Thom for trying to brighten this up. Times like these are when humour is needed the most. Hell, if I’d been the judge/executioner I’ve got tons of “different” things I’d like to do to him. As far as I’m converned he’s nothing but scum to me.
Which is more than one can say for most retarded sheep here. A sad part of this is that there’s still people arguing that Reiser is a “good guy” despite the pain he’s caused his children. He may be a decent coder but as far as I’m concerned he’s but more than the scum of the earth and the “punishment” he got is way too light. I I’d had my way he’d be senteced to 15 years of torture with no chance of parole. A human life is a human life. PERIOD!
Ewww, now I can’t get that nasty picture out of my head.
Damn my vivid imagination!
That made me laugh more than Thom’s comment!
Thom dropped the soap!
I don’t live in the USA but as I heard if someone get sentenced because of murder he still can use computer in prison, so I think reiser would have opportunity to continue his work there, but I doubt he will.
Doesn’t matter who says what now, his name is synonymous with murder in the eye’s of retard people. This is why big companies like suse dropped the file system immediately when this whole thing started.
This is why the humanity is worthless. The masses love celebrities and stupid people and don’t care about the people who really made some kind of breakthrough.
Dude, he killed his wife, he practically admitted to it, and it was in first degree. There *is* justice in the world because he was caught and appropriately sentenced. The fact that he also spent time making filesystems is orthogonal to any issue of justice.
To go down the path of Godwin, let’s compare this with Hitler. He did do a lot of good things for Germany, rebuilding the economy after WWI, etc. We can’t say “there’s no justice that he was taken out since he did so many good things for Germany!” and ignore that pesky little issue of killing all the Jews and millions of others who had to fight in the war that he created.
I’m sure that nearly every murderer or even serial killer has contributed something of value to society (intentionally or not) during their lifetimes. But they cannot get off the hook just because of that.
‘I’m sure that nearly every murderer or even serial killer has contributed something of value to society (intentionally or not) during their lifetimes.’
Jeffry must, according to your thinking, must have added something to his special sauce, lettuce, cheese on sesame seeds buns.
Seriously, one of my degrees is in criminal justice.
I’ve studies the crime scene photos of your ‘contributors’. These range from late 19th century ones to current.
These ‘blips’ contribute nothing to our species.
Maybe his murdered wife’s first name should become project name as part of his punishment and to show our collective contempt for his actions.
Edited 2008-08-30 19:02 UTC
Contribution doesn’t mean anything major. Working at a job or spending money at various businesses still counts.
I actually like this idea whole lot.
He did a lot more than practically admit to it. Here’s a transcript of his full confession:
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/08/its-the-least-p.html
He killed like a pro.
Edited 2008-08-30 19:09 UTC
There’s an easy solution to the negative publicity that Reiser4 filesystem has (rather naturally) got because of the murder case. Just keep improving the FS, solving its technical problems etc. and then change the name of the Reiser4 filesystem to something else and say that it was only originally based on Reiser4 but is actually a whole new FS. People’s thoughts will then gradually turn towards the actual file system and its future again from Hans Reiser’s life and personal tragedies.
He really fscked up. Sorry!
I don’t see much hope of him being rehabilitated – not with all the vehement denials he did. I really think he is messed up in the head. To me, it shows that it is one thing to have great intelligence; it is another to be wise. I think it is probably a good thing to remember for all of us techies – life isn’t just about information and knowledge. It is also about love and honesty – character if you will.
Exit soapbox.
IANAS (=I am not a shrink), but who knows, that might even be true to some extent – in medical sense? I read some of Hans Reiser’s interviews and stories about him after the murder case begun, and some things he has said and done do sound a bit weird.
Although I tend to oppose the too common and reductionist tendency to see all crimes only as symptoms of some mysterious illness or medical weakness in certain people (it is often only an excuse so that we wouldn’t have to see the criminal tendencies in so called normal people too), it is true that many people who commit awful crimes are indeed mentally sick and may not understand at all that what they have been doing could be wrong in some way.
People are strange creatures: a serious tumor in one’s brain and one might turn into a psychopath who doesn’t have any clue about the difference between good and bad, maybe losing all control in sexuality, violence etc. That may be very rare, but still, there are some scientifically studied medical examples of this.
Very well said. Wisdom has to do with understanding values, human life, feelings and higher goals in life too besides of only seeing easy short-cut solutions to life’s problems regardless of longterm consequences to others, society, nature and so on. As an example of short term solutions vs. longterm solutions based on values: If someone irritates you a bit, do you just immediately kill him and hide his body in order to fool the cops; or try to negotiate with irritating people too and try to find more constructive solutions from everyone’s point of view even if it may cause much trouble to yourself? (Hmm… As a side note: too many examples of easy short-cut solutions in world politics too; no wonder many say that politics are full of psychopaths…)
Edited 2008-08-30 16:52 UTC
It does not appear that Reiser4 will ever cease being developed soon. There are regular updates in the Zen-Sources kernel(the best kernel in the world).
http://www.zen-sources.org
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-704479-start-0.html (grab your copy from git today)
http://www.zen-sources.org/content/faq
“Put wiki/faq shit here”
Gotta love professionalism, especially when it’s so informative.
General comment to the whole Reiser situation: between the various assertions that Hans wasn’t really key to the project and the well-earned stigma now attached to his name, I definitely endorse a name change on the filesystem projects. Even just shortening it to RFS would do the trick. We’d all know what it stood for, but it would lose the “OJFS” or “ScottPetersonFS” ring, and they could even retcon the R into something more innocent, so to speak, later.
He’ll basically still do 25 at least, his Parole will undoubtedly get denied the first time.
He got ripped off in that deal.
Getting ripped off is the least of his worries now…
Yeah, his main concern at this point is more like getting ripped in the colon.
Imagine being the ‘nerd’ on a prison yard playground.
I guess he’s bound to get what’s cuming to him.
I know, I know… Bad taste.
It’s hard to see how cynical people are even if you got quite used to that already. People come and say ’15 years isn’t enough’, and that he’s such a bad guy and bring comparisons to Hitler… Who are you to judge other people’s lives? Just think one day it may happen to you and you’ll be surrounded by the clueless morons who get their lives from online and TV news and think they can be the world’s judges…
“May happen to”?
Are you saying that someday it might “happen to me” that I strike a woman with my fist, and then use a practiced Judo hold to cut off the blood supply to her brain, killing her, while her children are playing upstairs. And furthermore, that it might “happen to me” that I leave her in the car a couple of days and then bury her, and then indignantly proclaim my innocence for 2 years? That it might “happen to me” that I then publicly drag her character and memory through the mud, making wild and sordid claims about her personal life in front of her family? That it might “happen to me” that I claim that she abandoned her children to pursue her own selfish interests? And then, after I am convicted, but work out a deal to get the sentence lightened, the full truth coming out in the process, that it might “happen to me” that people who have been looking on might be rather strongly critical of my own character and behavior?
I just want to be clear on this point. Is that what you are saying might “happen to” me?
Edited 2008-08-30 21:40 UTC
From what he said it sounded less like a practiced judo hold and more like a “Why, you little…”-simpson-style strangling.
Everybody can become a murderer under the wrong circumstances. Just not as easy as Mr Reiser.
If you had killed your wife, would you rather confess, go to jail and leave the kids with no parents or try and cover up the evidence and stay with your kids? I know I wouldn’t confess!
I’m not saying Reiser had any altruistic motivation for any of his actions. He’s probably just a psychopath with a short fuse. In fact, he seemed not so much sorry but surprised and impressed by the good job the police did convicting him of his crime.
What I’m saying is, everybody could find himself in a very similar situation for perhaps very different reasons. And I believe deep down a lot of the people who want capital punishment, rape or torture for Mr Reiser know that. That’s why they’re so eager to distance themselves from him, declare im a subhuman and whatnot.
Why can’t anybody assume that the court consists of qualified people and made the right call. Reiser will probably spend the rest of his life in jail and rightly so. Torturing or killing him isn’t gonna do us any good or bring Nina back to life. I’d understand it if her family demanded the death penalty. But we who don’t even know her have no excuse for losing our temper.
I just want to clarify something, because I don’t want there to be any confusion on the matter. I posted my thoughts on this particular issue here:
http://osnews.com/thread?328619
It is only use of the very passive “might happen to” phrase that I object to. Mr. Reiser had a very *active* part in every step of this long and sad story.
No, you’re an angel. Life doesn’t apply to you.
I’m just saying sbergman that I’m irritated by how easy it is for people to think they know what’s black and what’s white. I’m not trying to defend Reiser, it’s just that when it comes to private matters they should be left at that – private. They also make a faulty assumption that if they didn’t kill anyone that makes them somehow ‘better’ than Reiser.
I also don’t think anyone has full control of their lives and that there’s a guranatee even a person with robust mental health won’t commit a murder or a suicide.
Please don’t confuse the issue with “suicide”, which is a completely different matter.
But the vast, vast majority of people do not commit murders. That’s a statistical fact. You are saying that under circumstances which are extreme enough, those with a negative opinion of Reiser might be driven to commit murder. But how extreme were Reiser’s reasons?
According to his own statement, he killed Nina because she “made a cavalier remark” (which was that she had full custody of the children.)
Are you saying that it is understandable to murder someone who has made a “cavalier remark” to you? That it is “irritating”, as you put it, that people would have strong negative opinions about someone who murders a mother of two children because she “made a cavalier remark”?
I do not buy your whole “you might have done the same thing” argument. Because it is, quite frankly, drivel.
We now, finally, have the facts (at least according to Reiser) of this case. And it is reasonable and fair to draw conclusions and form opinions from them.
Edited 2008-08-31 15:22 UTC
Committing a murder isnt a private matter and neither is the sentence.
You know what, not having killed someone in cold blood does make me a better person.
If it happened to me and I happened to take someones life, regardless of how I see myself in my own self involved world, I would deserve everything that happens to me. Most people who commit these crimes always find ways to justify their actions to themselves, they are always the victim, but the fact of the matter is that they committed a crime and must be punished for it regardless of whatever justification they may come up with for their crime.
Reiser isn’t any exception, he killed a person and deserves whatever is coming to him, imo. To top it off he lied about his actions and despite of his statements in the court showed very little remorse throughout the trial.
No, it wont happen to me because I have no plans of killing my wife.
Whats even sadder is that not long ago a tennager was sentenced to 30 years for hacking his high school teachers computer to change a grade. There is no real justice in this country.
If we rely on a “Higher Power” for justice, there will never be any. It’s up to civilized society to mete out justice, however imperfect it might be, because no other being(s) are supplying any to us.
1) ReiserFS is an average file system that ext3 betters imho
2) Hans Reiser was a lying, nutcase
3) He should have gotten natural life (since I’m against capital punishment)
Good riddance to this sad sorry state of a person.
And again, to all of those losers here that kept on insisting that he was innocent, you are truly sad people. You can mod me down, but it will NEVER make you right.
Dave
I almost hate to stir this topic up again. But we do have more of the relevant facts now.
Once it became clear that the police were having difficulty finding the body, I started to imagine what clever and ingenious things he might have done to dispose of it. After all, by the time they decide to charge someone with murder, a lot of resources must have been devoted to finding one. People were saying from the very first that you can’t successfully prosecute a murder case in California without a body.
When the “Reiser” topic would come up, I would spend a while pondering the possibilities. (Some of them quite gruesome, I’ll admit.) How could he manage such a feat? He did such a poor job of eliminating all the rest of the evidence that I figured he must have devoted most of his time to this clever deed.
But now we come to find out that he just put it in the car for 2 days. Dug a hole (practically) just down the street. And buried it there the following night. There is nothing clever or ingenious about this at all.
Apparently it is quite easy to hide a body well enough that it will elude discovery for a very, very long time, despite intensive searches.
It seems to me that if it is, indeed, a miscarriage of justice to convict someone without having a body, as some have argued, we have a very major problem here. I used to think that those people were arguing that if the murderer was clever and was able to hide the body well enough to avoid it being discovered, that he should get off scot-free. But apparently, the argument is actually more along the lines of “If he doesn’t just leave it in the living room he should get off scot-free”.
Edited 2008-08-31 00:55 UTC
It is not a miscarriage of justice to convict a man without a body. It would be a miscarriage of justice to convict a man of a crime where there is a reasonable doubt as to his guilt. While the justice system fails in some cases both for the innocent and the guilty, the premise is sound. In criminal cases presume the defendant innocent until such time as sufficient evidence is presented to prove his guilt.
The problem in murder trials without a body or a murder weapon with DNA evidence is that it is difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person has been killed, and if they were killed that the defendant did it. There are a number of possibilities that can be suggested that, though unlikely, can raise reasonable doubt.
(Note that the evidentiary requirements are stricter in criminal cases than in civil where a simple preponderance of evidence is sufficient to rule against a defendant.)
Most of these comments are so terribly uncivilized that i’m left wondering on the state that humanity is in. (or are these just all American’s with there own ‘sense’ or justice)
A human GUILTY of a serious crime (minor offenses do not count in this respect) should be punished for his crimes. In any form of modern civilized society this means that the punishment fits the crime and that the entire point is to try and ensure that this person will become a better one when the ‘punishment’ is completed.
If like some (most?) of you seem to think this includes ass-rapes, death-penalty or any other hideous acts you are a sorry bunch of manics yourself’s. The concept of an-eye-for-an-eye has no place in a modern civilized society IMHO. (luckily some enlightened countries agree with me
these countries also don’t kill or give life sentences for non-crimes but still breaking the law kind of offenses)
Although i like the idea of having prisons contribute back to the community, i’m not all in favor of having them do the dirty jobs of society that in itself it again shifting problems around onto people that then in turn get even more frustrated with the world. In a sense it’s not much different then bringing in slaves from third world countries to do your bidding.
Maybe you should consider (with only few exceptions) any fit punishment one that you could try out without lasting damage.
You can go and get locked up in a prison for a couple of days to see if depriving somebody of his freedom is really that bad. (okey maybe not American or third-world onces where you do get ass raped immediately) You can try out shrinks to see if that would help a person become a better one in life. And so many other thinks i could think off.
However would _You_ like to try out getting gang banged ? If you have such a high opion that it’s a fit punishment maybe you should KNOW what it entails and speak from experience when you post here.
There been too many cases in the past where people confess under duress and are proven to be innocent later, actually the advent of DNA testing already proved enough cases a miscarriage of justice that you can safely state you can never be sure enough that ALL your convicts 100% guilty to allow such a cruel type of punishment.
But i guess this comment is wasted on most, because when you are commenting in this kind of fashion you probably are not sensitive to any kind of reason anyways.
Although the reiser case seems pretty convincing to me (if he can produce the body and details that match forensics it’s highly likely that he did it) maybe in the feature some of these posters do get into a situation where you get convicted maybe even for something small like smoking pot, then you end up in prison with your _boyfriends_ you wish upon others so happily, by that time don’t come screaming out for help okey ?
Remember how you wished this upon others and suffer it with dignity.
Like a wise person once said: “Don’t wish upon others that which you would not want wished upon yourself”
This falls in the EVER and UNRESTRICTED department. It does not matter if it was the kid that bullied you in high school or a murderer.
Now please let us just listen to this news, and get on with life without making comments that makes you look so stupid.
I was merely making a stupid joke, a joke that is quite common in The Netherlands. The [televised version of the] American prison system, the bar of soap, Bubba, it’s all just humour to us. I don’t want it to happen to anyone, but that doesn’t mean I can’t joke about it.
I’m Dutch, and many Dutch people have a very direct, cynical, and harsh sense of humour that offends people in a lot of other cultures and nations – I experience this fact every day. A lot of us Dutch folk like to shock, we like to stir things up, we like to make people stop in their tracks and think “did he REALLY say that??”
It’s a method of dealing with things. When my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer, and the subsequent treatments that followed, my mother, father, and I joked about it. Harshly, shockingly. That’s how you let off steam, that’s how we deal with things that are sometimes too difficult to deal with otherwise.
This whole Reiser thing? You want my honest opinion about it? I felt sorry for the victims, but only for a millisecond. These things happen, and I can’t feel sorry for each and every single person on this planet who ever had something like this happen to them. In all honesty – I just don’t really care. I don’t know those people, and I’m not going to pretend that I do, and make myself feel good about myself by writing a comment on a stupid website and somehow expect that to make the world a better place – and as such sooth myself and go make myself an espresso in my 200EUR espresso machine.
I’m not going to be politically correct just because that’s what everyone else does – what does it add? I have my family’s and friends’ – and my own – problems and issues to deal with, and in all honesty, I find those more important than the well being of Hans Reiser, convicted murderer.
First I would like to say that I don’t think that the ReiserFS is all that important to Linux. Like with most people using the default OS that comes with their computers when they buy them (either some version of MS Windows or MacOS/X) I believe that most Linux users probably use the file system that is the default install system for their distro usually one of the ext versions.
And now in to this idea of what constitutes “Civilization”. With your personal attack on Americans I would imagine you are probably a European addicted to the Socialist/European Union ideas of SOFT punisment for criminals and “gun control” laws as the means of criminal control. Well I would like to ask you two questions on this matter. The first is if modern Europe and especially England is so “civilized” than how come it has higher crime rates now than in the 19th century where not only in Europe but even in the “Wild Wooly” American West where everybody carried guns and they SWUNG people like Mr. Reiser had much lower crime rates
than now. Second if Europe is so “civilized” than why was it the origin of THREE historical genocides/State mass murders. (Turkey/Armenian Genocide, NAZI Germany/Holocaust-Showah, Soviet Union/Kulak Purge. I generally follow the line of Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership on these that it was civilian disarmament generally known as “gun control” that made them possible).
As for Reiser I already stated my opinion about him. The Europeans should have gotten off their “Civilization” high horse with THREE GENOCIDES on its record and swung him.
Death-penalty is not an eye-for-eye kind of punishment. It’s just meant to end the violence.
You kill or hurt somone for anger – very unreasonable and illogical, so we kill you to prevent you from hurting others for anger again, because you have proved that you’re not a rational and worthy human able to live with others peacefully.
It’s simple. Nobody on earth should suffer the pain to live with murderers or violent bastards and worry that he or his families would become the next target.
Those who believe murderers don’t deserve to die should be sent to live with them.
Then how would you feel about having those who sentence an innocent man to die being sentenced to death? Including the judge, the prosecutor, the jury, and the “committee” that actually does the killing, because they’re all murderers if just ONE person gets wrongly convicted and put to death.
There is zero evidence that the death penalty deters crime. Some places with the death penalty have higher crime, some have lower. There are other factors that correlate much more closely with crime rates. The people doing the crimes don’t believe they’re going to get caught anyway. Besides, in 2006, US states with the death penalty had higher murder rates (and increasing) than those without, even when the states are next to each other. Seems it’s not much of a deterrent, and more of an “eye for an eye” revenge thing.
What the death penalty DOES do is create situations where it is impossible to correct errors in the justice system. It therefore denies justice to those who are wrongfully convicted, while not adding anything in terms of justice to anyone else. Even “confessions” are suspect these days given the widespread use of torture to extract confessions. Even some USA cops are using that tactic, and not just in Gitmo.
Until the justice system becomes provably 100% accurate, the death penalty is nothing more than the current version of a lynch mob.
Anyone who isn’t in control of their life is crazy and should be locked up for OUR protection.
Rehabilitate where you can, but what makes you think that’s possible? It’s not like when a dope addict relapses, and you try again. We can’t allow a murderer to relapse. If you know of some program that shows a high reformation rate on violent criminals, and near 100% identification of probable relapse, that’s cost effective, you’re probably worth a nobel prize.
In the current system, 25 years for Reiser, at least keeps him away from us. And as for punishment/reformation, he may not link his crime to the punishment… but he’ll probably think about prison before he does it again. It doesn’t sound like he’s capable of being rehabilitated at this point.