Novell and the Mono project developer community announced the release of Mono version 1.0, an open source implementation of the .NET framework for use on Linux, Unix, Mac OS X and Windows system. See their Release Notes, or go directly to the download page. MonoDevelop 0.5 was also released. Elsewhere, Edd Dumbill is talking about the metadata on the desktop using the Mono-based Beagle system (similar to Seth Nickell’s Storage, Apple’s Spotlight and originally, Be’s BFS & Tracker).
Mono Project Releases Version 1.0
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Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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hmmmn, Sun will lose the war if it does not opensource Java soon enough
What’s their new official site now?
go-mono or mono-project?
http://mono-project.com is the new official site. update your bookmarks.
so mono is arrived
and now the next big thing is to move the monkey on gnome
project.
What is the greatest benefit of bytecode based development environments? Some Java proponents would say ‘Right once yadda yadda’, but that isn’t as much a function of bytecode as it is Sun’s jealous stewardship of Java^TM API’s (see Sun V Microsoft) … for better or worse. Which leads to the real clear advantage bytecode based systems have over their native first cousins: secure sandboxing.
Mono doesn’t have it nor are they particularly interested in supporing it:
“A missing component of Mono is the Code Access Security (CAS). This functionality is not needed in today’s Mono as currently Mono is being used to run fully trusted applications, and we are not using it on embedded scenarios where assemblies would have different trust levels.
This is an important component, but requires three major pieces of work … we currently have no plans to implement any of those.”
That’s from Mono’s roadmap. Sure, Mono might have other advantages, but you can forget about using for web based rich clients.
for web based clients there is xul php python
asp.net is the last choice.
Miguel de Icaza promised the Linux community that the “patent problem” with Mono and .Net would be solved before a 1.0 release. Well . . . has it? I haven’t heard any more information on this front for some time.
I think I speak with many other developers when I say, I refuse to touch this with a ten foot pole until I have a guarantee that MS won’t be after us with an unrivaled sh*tstorm of lawsuits for not meeting their licensing requirements.
Until then, Java is looking pretty tempting. Especially with Sun GPLing some goodies.
However a separate (NOT BUILT INTO GNOME!!!) Wine-esque Mono runtime with compatibility to natively run pure .Net apps would be pretty slick.
Mono rocks! I tried it out last week and was blown away, espically with Monodevelop. Great Job!
Didn’t seem like Mono supported the Windows Forms package. Am I missing something? (probably
) If it doesn’t support WinForms then you ain’t gonna convince many companies and Windows developers to jump to Mono, especially now Microsoft have made express editions of Visual Studio available.
Great work Mono people. Don’t let up and we’ll get there. Hopefully the great strides being made in GNU Classpath will mirror your great progress.
For now though, I think I’ll stick to my nice OpenGL hardware accelerated Java 5.0 (aka 1.5).
Does anyone else feel like it’s Christmas in the last few days? Mono 1.0 out, Java 5.0 due for release, Microsoft making the Express versions of Visual Studio available.
It’s all good news for
“Developers! developers! developers! developers!”
(to quote the Ballmer gimp)
Does this mean it was abandoned? I thought that piece of work was one of the best things COMING. I hope this isn’t the case.
Dashboard hasn’t been abandoned. It’s just that in the past 18 months or so since Nat introduced the idea, it’s undergone sporadic development and hasn’t really become a finished, usable product yet. The new exciting development now is beagle: http://www.gnome.org/projects/beagle/ which is closely related to dashboard. Nat did an amazing demo at GUADEC. I wasn’t there, but I watched the video. The whole idea of beagle, dashboard, Storage, etc. is to facilitate finding information, files, contacts, etc. and not throw away data as it comes in that could be useful later. The major players (Longhorn, OS X) are all moving in that direction and GNOME is too. The real trick will be putting all the pieces together in a finished product.
Mono’s winforms implementation relies on Wine. Try dotGnu. They have a winforms implementation that uses X and GDI as its backends. Of course there’s always gtk#(crossplatform) and wx.NET(crossplatform).
You obviously do not understand the demographic of Java developers. I wouldn’t touch MONO with a 10-foot pole.
The runtime is great and now they can concentrate on optimizing it even more. I like java, but I find c# is a better language. CIL is also more language agnostic than java bytecode.
>You obviously do not understand the demographic of Java >developers. I wouldn’t touch MONO with a 10-foot pole.
Fine don’t use it. What I don’t understand is if you don’t like it, don’t understand it or you’re overwhelmed with bigitory why even bother reading .NET news?
You’re just one guy. Most of the java developers I know think that C# and CLR are better than Java and the JVM. But fine, don’t use it. You’re not going to convince anybody else to not use it though.
The biggest problem is that until Microsoft signs some papers saying they won’t enforce their patents on C#/.Net, Mono developers are vulnerable. Period. It could be next week, or it could be years from now, but if Microsoft doesn’t legally guarantee not to enforce their patents, you are liable for patent infringement. Patent owners are allowed to put off infringement case for years if they want. It’s not like a trademark – there’s no “protect it or lose it” with patents. The danger is easy to see – look at the JPEG patent holders. They waited years to allow JPEG to become a standard, then filed suit against companies who refused to pay them license fees. I can easily see MS two or three years from now demanding a license fee from every developer using Mono. It would be entirely in character for them.
Java is just as, or even more encumbered than Sun. So what’s your point?
should’ve been “Java is just as, or even more encumbered with Sun”
> Java is just as, or even more encumbered with Sun
Not quite. At least I’m pretty sure…
As I’ve noted in these forums before, the Java copyright notice http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/second_edition/html/jcopyright.d… has ridiculous and unenforceable (and, of course, currently unenforced) clauses that basically say, “We’ve got this great toy (Java). You can make your own toy just like ours, but if you do, you have to make it just like *we* say. Nyaa”.
J.F., do you agree that — because of the non-realistic terms in their copyright — that free Java implementations are safe? I mean, surely they couldn’t take that “copyright” notice to court and have a judge enforce it… (?)
If not, I think a solution might be to take C++, slim it down by removing the overly complex features that make it so complex, add GC by default, and start a new GNU standard. I’d recommend the D programming language, but I’m not sure how open the author is to giving up his “intellectual property” rights for the good of the worldwide software development community.
Unlinke Sun, Microsoft has a history of abusing the system to acquire more of the market. While many people find it unthinkable that Sun would come after JAVA developers, people easily believe MS will come after Mono developers.
Sun has said that you can make your own JAVA implementation, but if you wish to call it JAVA, they have to approve it. That’s what all the gobbledy-gook in their license says. That is why all third-party JAVAs use some other name. What people are looking for from MS is something similar.
But the copyright notice I provided a link to doesn’t say anything about what you *call* it — it simply refers to “a clean-room implementation”.
Can you please refer me to where Sun explains this detail more clearly?
”
Can you please refer me to where Sun explains this detail more clearly? ”
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/second_edition/html/jcopyright.d…
http://today.java.net/jag/page7.html#59
http://ometer.com/desktop-language.html
Sun is in a much more precarious economic situation than Microsoft. Don’t fall into the mistaken belief that Sun “cares” about open source. They’re just like every other company. They’re out to make money.
Microsoft is not going to shut down Mono, for the following reasons:
1) Mono is good for Microsoft’s business. (more people using .NET standards etc.)
2) All the central parts of what we call .NET are filed as ECMA and ISO standards. Microsoft, during the filing of the ECMA standard, granted everyone the right to use it and implement it royalty-free.
Then why file a patent as well? Simple, to prevent somebody else from patenting something they believe they invented first. Also, it assures the community that the .NET standards are legitimate and public.
Could it be that Microsoft actually has a *gasp* genuine desire for a better world for developers?
– Simon
Backing up my claims:
http://samgentile.com/blog/archive/2003/02/19/2647.aspx
– Simon
“Could it be that Microsoft actually has a *gasp* genuine desire for a better world for developers?”
Micorsoft has a desire for a better world for Microsoft. If, for some reason, Java died or became irrelevant (which I doubt, I think there’s room for Java and .Net) and the world came to depend on .Net (<- hyperbole here). Then you can be assured that Microsoft will use those patents to crush (or does MS call it knifing the baby? I can’t remember) the competition.
I know there is the normal mono stack that is ECMA but it seems to me like some RPM’s from that stack depend on the MS stack. Can anyone clarify?
Only some of the Mono stuff is in *possible* violation of MS’s patents. They offer (or at least did during the beta) a version of Mono that has no *questionable* parts (like asp.net and windows.forms). In other words, they have a safe version that is already garanteed to be safe.
They also have a pretty good rationale for why the other parts are legal too. But if you don’t trust that part, then just use the safe version.
BTW, is it possible to use Mono’s safe version, then link in the dotGNU windows.forms implementation? (I don’t know why you would do all that, but it would be neat if that were possible)
Could we get Ximian to please update their Fedora RPM packages so that gtk-sharp works cleanly with gtkhtml3 >= 3.0.9 instead of requiring exactyle gtkhtml3 = 3.0.9? most Fedora Core 2 users have gtkhtml3-3.0.10 but the Yum packages on the go-mono site insist on gtkhtml3-3.0.9. Quite irritating to do a workaround.
Thanks and more power!
“2) All the central parts of what we call .NET are filed as ECMA and ISO standards. Microsoft, during the filing of the ECMA standard, granted everyone the right to use it and implement it royalty-free. ”
ecma standard, correct. royalty free?. let me have a legal document for a patent grant or a license. random comments in mailing lists DONT count in case of a patent violation suit. what exactly is safe in mono is far from clear. its the responsibility of Novell to be clearing this mess
> > But the copyright notice I provided a link to doesn’t say anything
> > about what you *call* it — it simply refers to “a clean-room
> > implementation”.
> >
> > Can you please refer me to where Sun explains this detail more clearly?
>
> http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/second_edition/html/jcopyright.d…..
>
> http://today.java.net/jag/page7.html#59
>
> http://ometer.com/desktop-language.html
Umm… Your reply doesn’t address the issue of Sun’s position on Free Java implementations that don’t use the Java name (which, since you’re replying to my message, was the topic at-hand).
The first link is just the copyright notice that I noted in my original message (and which I mentioned does not say anything about what you *call* your Java implementation).
The 2nd link is Just Gosling spouting off about how there’s nothing to worry about since the copyright notice (the link in the previous paragraph) makes everything crystal clear and sweetness & light.
The 3rd link is just Havoc’s blog article where he considers the alternatives (Java, C#, or C++) but doesn’t directly address whether he thinks Sun will go after the Free Java implementations in the future (not that his opinion would be legal advice, but it would be interesting to hear what he has to say on the topic anyway, since he seems like a sharp fellow).
I’m beginning to wonder if Sun could one day shut down GCJ/Classpath after all…
“I’m beginning to wonder if Sun could one day shut down GCJ/Classpath after all…”
they cant. gcj just wont use the java name.
The speed with which Mono went from being an joke that outraged linux people with its very idea to being a success with unstoppable momentum has to be one of the great open software stories. Congrats and Good luck.
good work
what about for gnome integration ?
the redhats folks who partecipate at gnome project seems to not like its.
I have been working on Java for 7 years and still meets all the requiremt for top enterprise platform. Mono and .Not is still very immature and has lotta hype like VB.
“I’m beginning to wonder if Sun could one day shut down GCJ/Classpath after all…”
they cant. gcj just wont use the java name.
Perhaps I’m not being clear enough. Sun has got to have oodles of patents on various aspects of Java (the language, the API’s, etc.). GCJ and Classpath are official GNU projects. Regardless of what GNU calls these projects, they are still implementing possibly patented stuff when creating a Free Java platform (jeez I hate software patents). Say Sun pulls a SCO — they could then conceivably take GNU to court to make GNU stop distributing software which contains … blech … patented algorithms (just *saying* that gives me a bad taste in my mouth).
I don’t know how to do a patent search, and I have no idea what sort of (or how many) Java patents Sun holds. I *do* however know that, since there *are* such things as software patents, companies are foolish to do anything *but* patent everything they can (for fear that another company will patent a similar thingy and force the first company to pay or stop using said patented software thingy).
This is why everyone is so upset about Mono — because MS has got to have so many patents with regard to .NET, that they could just wait for the GNU/Linux community to come to rely on Mono, and then — when it suits them — spring their legal trap and legally force Ximian/Novell to cease and desist distributing Mono.
I had thought that Java sidestepped this whole issue, because I’ve heard on the net (like from Gosling’s blog) that Sun gives some sort of permission to use their patents in clean-room Java implementations, but it’s starting to look like that’s just hot air / marketingspeak.
I really don’t know how this will pan out. Maybe Sun *will* go SCO and make enemies of the Free software community. They seem to support an “open source” Java — as long it’s theirs…
Regarding the future of Mono however, since MS is involved, it’s a bit easier to predict what will happen.
The final solution will have to be to eliminate software patents altogether. Maybe Mono is a good idea for fixing the patent problem: to force the issue into the light of day. If Mono becomes hugely popular and many corporations are relying on it using GNU/Linux, and then MS decides to spring their trap, it could be just the thing to wake everyone up to the fact that software patents are unjust and that the law needs to be changed.
That is only the RPMS. The actual software of the mono/Linux stack is independent of the Windows/non-ECMA stack.
“If Mono becomes hugely popular and many corporations are relying on it using GNU/Linux, and then MS decides to spring their trap, it could be just the thing to wake everyone up to the fact that software patents are unjust and that the law needs to be changed. ”
i think MS will just say open source people dont respect intellectual property as usual
> Say Sun pulls a SCO — they could then conceivably take GNU > to court to make GNU stop distributing software which
> contains … blech … patented algorithms (just *saying*
> that gives me a bad taste in my mouth).
Greetings again, John MG (and others)
You have a valid point for discussion here. However I think it is moot. Sun would have to be more suicidal than SCO to sue GNU over gcj/Classpath. Why? because their Java Desktop System (JDS) is making inroads into corporate desktops and is tied to GNU/Linux. If Sun were to think about sueing GNU they would have to forgoe their nice little earner JDS when GNU turn around and say Sun can’t use their tools for Linux. I think that the revenue from the 200 million Chinese JDS seats alone (although this reported value seems an excessive number, it was certainly a sizeable win for Sun) is enough to stop any silliness on Sun’s part (unless Darl McBride was anointed Scott McNealy’s successor, lol). The further JDS progresses the less likely Sun is to harm themselves by attacking GNU (considering they don’t make revenue from Java, GNU creating gcj helps not hinders their sales).
However, Microsoft doesn’t depend on GNU or Novell. Their patents are probably defensive, but they suffer no risk if they decide to embroil Mono in legal proceedings if they feel the pain from loss of both ‘platform commitment’ by developers and sales opf Visual Studio.NET.
Both Microsoft and Sun want developers to use their platform, but Sun is by far the lower risk (comparing both corporations both on their declarations and historical action).
I’ve always thought that the solution to managed code software under Linux and for cross platform use was to speed up Python
and make it a more complete language with a true switch statement instead of relying on elif for all switching needs
and a true do while, loop while or repeat until loop for loops that run once before testing their true-false condition.
(The developers of most modern full programming languages consider elif, elseif and else if to be a very messy way of making switches. They also prefer do while type loops to streight while loops for menuing and other switching functions in console software that loop.)
This is because Python is already open sourced as a project and we don’t have to rely on the good graces of a Microsoft or a Sun to allow us to continue using it. (Also for those interested in developing GNU GPL software Python has the advantage of running direct from the source code without
byte code compilation that neither .NET/Mono or Java have.
This means that even if you want to just speed up python and use the language as is without my ideas about language completeness being considered you can GPL programmers can distribute their apps as source only and newbies will be able to run them directly from a start up script written like this:
#! bin/sh
python yourapp.py
without having to go through intimidating (to newbies) compilation processes. I really do believe that we need to develop something that can really run fast from source only distributions using simple language such as python to bring Win people and FOSS newbies over to the Free and Open Source Software model. (Even when a complete language it will be keeping its simple dynamic typing and its OOP flavor with simple no curley brace block functions and methods)
“hy? because their Java Desktop System (JDS) is making inroads into corporate desktops and is tied to GNU/Linux. If Sun were to think about sueing GNU they would have to forgoe their nice little earner JDS when GNU turn around and say Sun can’t use their tools for Linux.”
hey that wont work. gnu tools are under gpl or similar license which doesnt allow discriminating against Sun. SCO continues to use samba while attacking linux so its a possibility
I have been working on Java for 7 years and still meets all the requiremt for top enterprise platform. Mono and .Not is still very immature and has lotta hype like VB.
Haha, after reading the second sentence I question if you’ve even programmed in your entire life. VB has been one of the most successful languages to ever exist and one of the reasons for Microsoft’s success. Wow, you sure look like the fool.
No more fear mongering!!! Everytime theres been an article about Mono, you people jump all over it.
WE dont have enough information to draw any concrete conclusions. So unless you specialize in IP law STFU!
yes…in one demo, they created a program on windows, then deployed it on linux. the linux box ran Mono.
also, MS is trying to pitch the .NET CLR as cross-platform, citing not only the Rotor but also two other open source “clean-room” implementations. guess what those two open source implementations are.
so if they choose to sue mono in the future…they’re hypocrites!
i am a java developer, and i love the spirit of java because it is over the OS (Operating System). Even tough i am still very sceptical about whole mono move, i wish the best of luck to the developers.
let me shut up, and let the code talks now.
hey that wont work. gnu tools are under gpl or similar license which doesnt allow discriminating against Sun. SCO continues to use samba while attacking linux so its a possibility
Yup.
I expect to see a big surge in popularity of GCJ/Classpath now that their Swing implementation is coming along so nicely. If natively compiled (with GCJ) Java GUI apps are significantly faster than the same app run under a JVM, GCJ should see a lot more popularity — especially for desktop apps. Now, a good question to ask is, will Sun perceive this as a threat? If they are smart, Sun management will get behind GCJ and say, “See how well Java works for desktop apps when natively compiled?
“. (I’m guessing that JVM’d Java has its benefits when running server-side.) Trouble is, I have no faith in Sun management.
Mike wrote:
Both Microsoft and Sun want developers to use their platform, but Sun is by far the lower risk (comparing both corporations both on their declarations and historical action).
Ok, so the question becomes: if GCJ becomes wildly popular and Gnome incorporates Java for rapidly developing Gnome applications, how much value will Sun place on those Free software developers? If Sun values the Free software community, they will leave the FSF alone so that Free software developers will continue to use Java and recommend it to their friends. If they don’t value the community, then we are back to wondering if they will/can go after the FSF with the patent police.
Also, CoralSnake, regarding Python — I don’t know of any native ahead-of-time (“AOT”) compiler for Python. I’ve heard of Psyco, but I’m talking about what GCJ does for Java. I think for large desktop apps, you need AOT compiling so the thing runs at an acceptable speed on average machines. I think both GCJ and Mono give you natively compiled and optimized binaries.
I guess in the end, if it comes to patent litigation, I’d rather
A. the community choose Java and see Sun go after the FSF, than
B. the community choose C# and see MS go after Ximian/Novell.
After all, Novell could be bullied, bought, or otherwise coerced, but RMS and the FSF could not be bought for any price — and maybe we’d end up getting some patent law reform out of the whole thing. Heh, I’d love to see Eben Moglen up against Sun’s lawyers on the evening news, if it came down to it.
yes…in one demo, they created a program on windows, then deployed it on linux. the linux box ran Mono.
They do *now*, but wait ’til Mono starts eating into their bottom line — then you’ll see the fangs come out.
If Mono becomes popular, that’s one less reason anyone would need to use Windows, right?
Get the Gov departments hooked on Mono based apps then if MS goes bananas the Gov will have to take action. Seems that’s the only way Gov works nowdays cause they don’t act to represent the public good or their constituencies.
If natively compiled (with GCJ) Java GUI apps are significantly faster than the same app run under a JVM, GCJ should see a lot more popularity — especially for desktop apps.
GCJ/Classpath is interesting in that you don’t need a VM and maybe it consumes less memory, but raw speed is not one of its virtues. Invariably, JRE 1.4.2 will spank GCJ in raw speed and Tiger(1.5) is supposedly much faster. That’s not to say there can’t be huge performance gains, but that’s the way it is now.
Yes, some of us are already doing this
I would first like to congratulate Mono as this is a major technical achivement, one that has matured suprisingly fast.
There is a lot of talk of the software patents, that relate to Java and .NET. While I find software patents in general to be a Bad Thing there is a differnce between the ones on Java by Sun and the ones on .NET by Microsoft in that if you create a full Java implementation that passes their tests Sun not oly lets you use their Java copyrights but gives a full patent grant. Microsoft does not give any patent grants what so ever.
Microsoft have submitted the core of .NET (not ADO.NET, ASP.NET, Winforms which are going to get replaced in Longhorn so don’t matter as much) to the ECMA, a real standards body, which is a good thing, but there are still patents on this stuff and ECMA only requires that they be granted RAND. This is fine for Novel but not a complete free grant that is needed for Free Software.
Both technologies have major problems for Free Software. Microsoft has form for using whatever means that it has to crush it’s competition (legal or illegal), whereas Sun is not in a particually good financial position and may get desperate in future. At the moment neither should be used as the heart of a major peice of Free Software the stack, as Ximian seems to want to do by using it in Gnome, but as an extra compatability interface both are good and useful.
As Miguel has pointed out many times the problem with patents doesn’t simply apply to implementations that are based on .NET. Any approach taken, any project is liable to being attacked based on patents that companies own. The argument that we should just create our own solution for Free Software doesn’t apply. At least we know what was commited to the EMCA standard.
I find the design of C# is fantastic and thats what I would like to exploit. I’d like to see more and more libraries from the open-source community for C# and not just MS imitations.
if you develop a java app you can redistribuite it without
problem,the same thing is for .NET app.
btw mono is open source and can be integrated on various distribuitions without problems.
mono win java loose.
Please do not give Microsoft something to attack linux ….
Microsoft has not shutdown Mono yet because they will shut it down latter … when gnome’s ingtegration will make a lot more damage
please … please dont use Mono … please
well
if microsoft will shutdown gnome project we can even jump
on kde
so where is problem ?
>please … please dont use Mono … please
Haha this is the stupid statement i have ever heard, to me mono and .NET are rocks. They give developers so much benefits. Like it or not .NET gonna rule the world very soon.
>>please … please dont use Mono … please
>Haha this is the stupid statement i have ever heard, to me >mono and .NET are rocks. They give developers so much >benefits. Like it or not .NET gonna rule the world very soon
I did not say that MONO is a bad development tool. I said that using it opens an opportunity so that Microsoft attacks linux.
I thinks .NET is a good developement enviroment. I tooks J2EE and fix its faults. But i still prefered J2EE. More a subject of principles
>well
>if microsoft will shutdown gnome project we can even jump
>on kde
>so where is problem ?
The problem that I do not want that Microsoft limits my posiblidades to choose.
There are a lot of other good technologies … why to choose the one that could be risky in the near future ???
The problem that I do not want that Microsoft limits my posiblidades to choose.
There are a lot of other good technologies … why to choose the one that could be risky in the near future ???
Microsoft can’t limit your possibilities to choose for one thing.
I guess you have to weigh the risks in everything because of idiotic software patents your code is always at risk. As Nat Friedman once said, if you write 100 lines of code there’s a decent chance that you’re violating someone’s patent.
Microsoft hasn’t gone after Wine or Samba, have they? Mono has 2 different stacks. One is the ECMA 334 and 335 plus open source developed stack, and the other stack covers stuff like ASP.NET, winforms, ADO.NET.
You’re just as “encumbered” using Java, but Sun happens to be in a much more preacarious financial situation than Microsoft.
> You’re just as “encumbered” using Java, but Sun happens to
> be in a much more preacarious financial situation than
> Microsoft.
Yeah, but IBM isn’t, and you can get a Java implementation from them. Or you can go classpath and use it with gcj, kaffe, SableVM, … blah blah
With .NET the *definition* comes from one source only. When Microsoft says they are gonna dump WinForms for Avalon, everyone has to follow suit otherwise their support will run out. [I encounter this problem daily supporting a DOS based embedded system]. It is the planned obselensce of .NET packages that makes using it daft from a business perspective. When Microsoft decides that a technology is no longer cool enough to help market the platform they let it whither (although not die) – witness the stalled developement on Internet Explorer, or developer technologies like DNA, DDE, OLE, COM, COM+, DCOM … businesses that developed products and expertise on these now have to start expending cash and effort getting up to speed with .NET where parts of that are already planned to be replaced.
Java isn’t as complete as .NET for application level stuff (just last night I found there is no function in the Java SE API for getting the amount of disk free), but at least the 7 year old code paradigms are still supported and run.
amon wrote:
if you create a full Java implementation that passes their tests Sun not oly lets you use their Java copyrights but gives a full patent grant.
I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to be getting it.
Show me where Sun says that. And please don’t point me to the copyright notice I’ve linked to twice already, for reasons explained in my previous posts.
Either way, Java + GCJ seems to be the best path for getting resolution on this ugly patent issue (that is, if Sun were ever to sue the FSF, we might see some patent reform come out of it — that is, if enough companies (and maybe government agencies) are using GCJ/Classpath at that time.
if microsoft will shutdown gnome project
???
What has mono with gnome. Mono uses Gtk#. M$ could shutdown few apps that use it in their best wish. But to inform you a little more. QT# exists too.
Bindings aren’t enough to shutdown parent project.
“There are a lot of other good technologies … why to choose the one that could be risky in the near future ??? “
How many times does it need to be pointed out… every solution is risky. It’s becoming more and more evident that Linux needs a dev platform using “managed code” (to speak like MS). Why not use the core of C# as a basis ? It has been submitted to a standard (unlike Java), should be devoid of patent issues and has a great design that resolves problems that Java has. If MS go off on a tangent we’re just stuck with a good programming language that and we can continue on our own path that will most likely be better.
> Bindings aren’t enough to shutdown parent project.
Right. But suppose many small parts of Gnome start being written for use with Mono. Then MS’s patent lawyers go after the Gnome folks. Gnome will not get shut down, however, they would probably have to drop using Mono. In that case, many man-years of work will have to be either thrown away or else tweaked/rewritten in Java.
That’s what everyone wants to avoid: wasted time (time for MS’s “Longhorn” to make it out of the stable, coincidentally).
> How many times does it need to be pointed out… every solution is risky.
Yup. They all are. But personally, if I’m gonna have to put all my eggs in one basket, I want the FSF to be the keeper of that basket. Novell would fold instantly in the face of MS’s lawyers and/or money (meaning, they could easily accept a large check and agree to simply not distribute Mono anymore). The FSF on the other hand, if faced with angry Sun patent lawyers, would tell them something like, “we’ll stop distributing Free software when a federal court makes us. Thank you, come again.”
And once again Ill highlught the reasons.
1. It works for EVRYBODY.
Want to do a closed source proprietary app?, Python allows for compilation to byte code just like Java and Mono. Want to do GNU GPL or some other type of FOSS?. Just ship your source and Python will run the app WITHOUT COMPILATION AND COMPLICATED CLASSPATH SETTINGS.
2. It is simple.
This will draw the users of systems like Visual Basic to Linix and cross platform programming. Particularly if we can build a Visual Basic type rad for it. (probably to be directly based on WxPython and WxWidgets.
3. I don’t really think Linux should be concentrating on the so called “enterprise”. Businesses involved in “enterprise” level computing are going to build their own in house specialized proprietary software tailored spacifically to their systems. In fact some of the proprietary development tools companies like Borland are moving away from their original business (Development tools for Shareware, proprietary Freeware and FOSS developers) and moving into expensive development tools talored for the building of such software by businesses involved in “Enterprise” level computing. Rather I think that Linux should be concentrating on the home user and developer like Borland once did and here I really think Python shines above all the others right now.
One thing though. Python should really dump TKInter for something like streight PyGTK+ or WxPython/WxWidgets. I think most of the “slowness” atributed to python actually stems from calling two separate managed languages (Python itself and Tcl-Tk) for GUI apps. Come to think of it the TKInter widgets re done in streight Python might also be in order for Python’s GUI as well. then only a library and not two separate managed software cores would have to be called in GUI apps.