Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 9th May 2006 21:25 UTC, submitted by luzr
OSNews, Generic OSes Torvalds has indeed chimed in on the micro vs. monolithic kernel debate. Going all 1992, he says: "The whole 'microkernels are simpler' argument is just bull, and it is clearly shown to be bull by the fact that whenever you compare the speed of development of a microkernel and a traditional kernel, the traditional kernel wins. The whole argument that microkernels are somehow 'more secure' or 'more stable' is also total crap. The fact that each individual piece is simple and secure does not make the aggregate either simple or secure. And the argument that you can 'just reload' a failed service and not take the whole system down is equally flawed." My take: While I am not qualified to reply to Linus, there is one thing I want to say: just because it is difficult to program, does not make it the worse design.
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Communism
by tmack on Tue 9th May 2006 21:45 UTC
tmack
Member since:
2006-04-11

Microkernels are like communism.

Great idea on paper, but basically impossible to succesfully implement for a plethora of reasons.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Communism
by dylansmrjones on Tue 9th May 2006 21:50 in reply to "Communism"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

I wouldn't call communism a good idea on paper.

Compare microkernels with anarchy instead. That's closer. Both great ideas, but if they are to be implemented cleanly they won't work. Compromises are necessary for both ideas.

Most kernels today, including linux, are hybrid kernels. And for a good reason.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Communism
by sappyvcv on Wed 10th May 2006 16:19 in reply to "RE: Communism"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

Hey, I agree with you! ;)

I do think all modern operating systems should indeed be using a hybrid kernel. Certain aspects are suited to be monolithic and certain modularized. To think everything can be lumped under one methodology is myopic.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Communism
by ebasconp on Tue 9th May 2006 23:04 in reply to "Communism"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

"Great idea on paper, but basically impossible to succesfully implement for a plethora of reasons."

This comment is not true; see the performance of the L4::Pistachio microkernel... some system calls in that system are performed as faster as in Linux.

See L4, is a good example of a good design and implementation of a microkernel.

http://www.l4ka.org

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Communism
by tmack on Wed 10th May 2006 01:58 in reply to "RE: Communism"
tmack Member since:
2006-04-11

I'll wait until that kernel is used for anything besides saying "Wow, cool it's a microkernel."

Until that point, it might as well be Minix.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Communism
by dr_gonzo on Tue 9th May 2006 23:26 in reply to "Communism"
dr_gonzo Member since:
2005-07-06

People always make the 'looks good on paper' argument with Communism when it holds true for any ideology.

Maybe what's at fault with Linux here isn't a technical matter but rather the failure to manage a proper development process.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Communism
by ma_d on Tue 9th May 2006 23:39 in reply to "RE: Communism"
ma_d Member since:
2005-06-29

Books have been written on how to mimick the linux development process because it has proved so effective at producing reliable and flexible code quickly.

Don't go dissing it without backing it up. Also, the term "proper" here brings up some connotations which won't make people want to listen to your ideas ;) .

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Communism
by sdeber on Wed 10th May 2006 07:06 in reply to "RE: Communism"
sdeber Member since:
2005-07-06

These people either got their brains washed or they have no idea of their own at all.

Reply Parent Score: 1

v RE: Communism
by Duffman on Wed 10th May 2006 04:26 in reply to "Communism"
RE[2]: Communism
by Gunblade on Thu 11th May 2006 00:40 in reply to "Communism"
Gunblade Member since:
2005-07-21

I like whats best for me. If that so happens to be a microkernel then so be it.

This is why we have competition, but I mean if they are truly better I am still confused as to why they are not prevelant among all the OS's!

Anyhoo, Communism does not even look good on paper. Why would you say that? I think especially that part where you don't own anything, oh and that whole part where it goes against human nature.

Wouldn't it be awsome to actually here linus talk though? I could imagine it now... THATS BULL!

Reply Parent Score: 1