The Mono debate over on the GNOME desktop developer mailing list is heating up again. Philip Van Hoof makes a compelling argument about the need for GNOME decision makers to take into consideration future developers and the over-reliance of C and GObject in GNOME. At what point does a general-purpose, high level framework and runtime become a necessity for GNOME?
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Member since:2005-06-29
The only Mono app that keeps running on my desktop is beagle, and it does not take lots of memory (when I adopted it, this bug was fixed). I don't have to recompile it every time I update Mono either, as long as it's very minor revisions. The apps are not really slow, but definitely slower than C Gnome apps though.
I can't even get Beagle working well on my system. A process called "beagle-helper" consistently used 97% of my CPU resource over two days. I had to turn Beagle off. The upgrade from Mono version 1.1.4 to 1.1.6 broke "all" my Mono applications. Mono, as well as Java, applications take a toll on my system that I have not seen any Python applications do. Compared to Python, the Mono virtual manager takes a considerable amount of time to initialize. Thus making the startup time of Mono applications relatively long. I don't really care about this, however. In my opinion, Mono needs more time to mature.
Perhaps it is so. But I still remember the switch from Python 2.2 to 2.4. And I'm sure Gentoo devs remember it very well too, as it was a nightmare, as Portage is python based. Not so bad for me, but I fear the next python version that is soon to be released. Or rather I don't, I know I'll have to recompile every python app, not a big deal.
But for Gnome, I have then to kill all the sessions for upgrading, which I didn't have to do before. That's because, Gnome already include important functions written with python (like some notifications or plugins). Granted, all of them are not necessarily part of the Gnome core, but are so important, that I don't think one good Gnome desktop
won't use them.
GCompris and the famous bubble bobble clone of which I forgot the name helped prove years ago that Python could be used for desktop apps. Just don't base your core on Python, or be prepared to never upgrade or suffer.
That's odd. If I remember correctly, you can install multiple versions of Python on the same system. Gentoo in particular supports a system called slots that makes it possible. I remember there was a period I had Python versions 2.3 and 2.4 installed on my system. I don't recall ever recompiling/reinstalling Python applications during a Python upgrade. I believe Python has mantained backward compatibility since 2.0 or 2.2. And 2.5 to be released sometime in the next few weeks will also be backward compatible.
Member since:2005-11-14
I can't even get Beagle working well on my system. A process called "beagle-helper" consistently used 97% of my CPU resource over two days. I had to turn Beagle off
I use the stock versions, and all is well.
The upgrade from Mono version 1.1.4 to 1.1.6 broke "all" my Mono applications
I won't deny this, it happens to me randomly between versions too.
Fortunately, I avoid Mono as much as I can, I only have beagle and I think autopano-sift (IIRC). Beagle daemon is pretty resistant to mono version change, not the GUI apps.
Mono, as well as Java, applications take a toll on my system that I have not seen any Python applications do. Compared to Python, the Mono virtual manager takes a considerable amount of time to initialize. Thus making the startup time of Mono applications relatively long. I don't really care about this, however. In my opinion, Mono needs more time to mature
There used to be a time when Python (or was it pygtk ?) had lots of memory leak too. I had a bittorrent client eating all my memory before.
Well, it's finished now. I had the same problem with azureus, plus it was very slow : I never installed the java bindings again.
Python had a better fate because I needed GCompris for my daughter desktop (and now for all the Gnome desktops).
That's odd. If I remember correctly, you can install multiple versions of Python on the same system. Gentoo in particular supports a system called slots that makes it possible
There were a lot of problems in the transition, and 2.4.0 was not stable at all and a lot of apps where no longer working.
Portage guys had to maintain their old Python revision for a long time.
I don't recall ever recompiling/reinstalling Python applications during a Python upgrade
I'm talking 2.2 to 2.4 (or was it 2.3 to 2.4 ?). 2.4.x did not require any recompilation of all the apps.
Member since:
2005-11-14
All the Mono applications I have on my system cannot run for more than 2 hours without crashing. In addition they consume lots of memory and are slow. Everytime I update Mono, I have to recompile all my mono applications. My conclusion is that Mono is not stable enough to get into GNOME
The only Mono app that keeps running on my desktop is beagle, and it does not take lots of memory (when I adopted it, this bug was fixed). I don't have to recompile it every time I update Mono either, as long as it's very minor revisions. The apps are not really slow, but definitely slower than C Gnome apps though.
Python has seen over 10 years of development. It is high level, it is dynamic, it is exceedingly popular among free software hackers, it is versatile and it fits the needs of GNOME better than Mono will ever be
Perhaps it is so. But I still remember the switch from Python 2.2 to 2.4. And I'm sure Gentoo devs remember it very well too, as it was a nightmare, as Portage is python based. Not so bad for me, but I fear the next python version that is soon to be released. Or rather I don't, I know I'll have to recompile every python app, not a big deal.
But for Gnome, I have then to kill all the sessions for upgrading, which I didn't have to do before. That's because, Gnome already include important functions written with python (like some notifications or plugins). Granted, all of them are not necessarily part of the Gnome core, but are so important, that I don't think one good Gnome desktop won't use them.
Python is no slower than any Mono application I have on my system
GCompris and the famous bubble bobble clone of which I forgot the name helped prove years ago that Python could be used for desktop apps. Just don't base your core on Python, or be prepared to never upgrade or suffer.
When Mono matures and stabilizes with respect the ever evolving .NET, then we can rethink adding it to GNOME
Mono is too intrusive for now anyway.