Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 19th Aug 2006 16:11 UTC
Microsoft MSDN's Channel 9 has two videos in their 'Going Deep' series which dive, well, deeper into Singularity, the operating system in development at Microsoft's research department. The first of the two is about, among other things, Software Isolated Processes (SIPs). The second of the two actually shows Singularity in action.
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Its not the kernel
by hraq on Sun 20th Aug 2006 06:28 UTC
hraq
Member since:
2005-07-06

Its not the kernel that MS failed with in the past, its the higher processes and application on top of it like the horrible Internet Explorer, Windows Explorer, destruction-unlimited Root/User permissions, plus many many more.

MS kernel now is excellent; and instead of writting a new kernel from the ground up which even its team don't know how to interact with and which will be used in the future when then MS will fire those guys, its better to concentrate on planing a rewrite that takes in account every part of that future design and will be very well documented and functional, unlike current cmd.exe tools which never work fine and which always change from version to version (9x to 2000/xp/2003 to vista). I couldn't find a simple command to shut down an ethernet interface in any of windows versions till now an then start it up, like in linux/Unix "ifdown" and "ifup".

Besides, this project is not to be implemented till year 2030 when judgement day arrives, all judged from MS eternal time it took to develop vista in 6 years which is few simple modifications of windows server 2003, i mean not a from scratch OS.
And probably they will kill this project when they feel its unachievable much like the project of early vista interface that had the room, arrows, navigation man desks and doors.

Good Luck though!

Reply Score: 1

RE: Its not the kernel
by mormon on Sun 20th Aug 2006 09:49 in reply to "Its not the kernel"
mormon Member since:
2005-08-13

I couldn't find a simple command to shut down an ethernet interface in any of windows versions till now an then start it up, like in linux/Unix "ifdown" and "ifup".


Isn't that ipconfig for?
ipconfig /renew id_of_connection
I don't know if it works in 95-Me, but i'm sure it works since Win2000.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Its not the kernel
by hraq on Sun 20th Aug 2006 19:16 in reply to "RE: Its not the kernel"
hraq Member since:
2005-07-06

"ipconfig /renew" is like "ifupdown" or "ifconfig restart" and this command is nothing like ifdown at all.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Its not the kernel
by n4cer on Sun 20th Aug 2006 22:27 in reply to "Its not the kernel"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

MS kernel now is excellent; and instead of writting a new kernel from the ground up which even its team don't know how to interact with and which will be used in the future when then MS will fire those guys, its better to concentrate on planing a rewrite that takes in account every part of that future design and will be very well documented and functional, unlike current cmd.exe tools which never work fine and which always change from version to version (9x to 2000/xp/2003 to vista).

cmd is well-documented. There are several sources for documentation of cmd.exe and it's commands:

1) Type help at the prompt for details, or append [/i]/?[/i] to the command you want to use to see usage details.

2) Go to Windows Help and search for cmd.
If you're running XP (may work on other versions), this link should go directly to the relevant documentation:
%SystemRoot%/Help/ntcmds.chm

3) There's also a reference on Technet:
http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/library/fdc12a63-df4...

Besides, this project is not to be implemented till year 2030 when judgement day arrives, all judged from MS eternal time it took to develop vista in 6 years which is few simple modifications of windows server 2003, i mean not a from scratch OS.
And probably they will kill this project when they feel its unachievable much like the project of early vista interface that had the room, arrows, navigation man desks and doors.


This, as well as Task Gallery, Data Mountain, et al. are research projects. They are exploratory, but may not necessarily be feasible in their research form for commercial products. Microsoft takes the algorithms and technologies developed and incorporates them into future products where possible. There have been several technology transfers from MSR to MS over the years, and many research technologies have made it into current and past products. Just because you aren't familliar with this happening doesn't mean it hasn't been done. Task Gallery, for instance, explored redirection of rendering to the GPU. as well as the feasability of the 3D UI you've mentioned. These technologies have had several implementations from GDI2k and Chrome/ChromeEffects, up to Vista. Vista implements the rendering redirection and a 3D desktop (as well as other technologies from this and other MSR projects). It just doesn't use the same UI as Task Gallery, likely because the current paradigm proved more efficient. As I said, however, though it looks 2D, Vista's desktop is 3D and you will see applications and the OS use 3D in ways that make sense for data visualization, increased screen real-estate, and productivity gains. It won't just be used because it's there. You can see examples of its use already if you check around:
http://channel9.msdn.com/tags/WPF
http://channel9.msdn.com/tags/Windows+Vista
http://www.seewindowsvista.com/

The people that did the Task Gallery research were not fired when that project ended. Many of them are in the VIBE group at MSR, working on new research projects. You don't automatically implement everything that comes out of research, and you don't expect every project to result in products. Some of MSR's work isn't even related to markets in which MS participates.

Back to Vista...

all judged from MS eternal time it took to develop vista in 6 years which is few simple modifications of windows server 2003, i mean not a from scratch OS.

1) How many current versions of OSes in existance today were written from scratch? OS X, Linux, Unix? Certainly not.

2) Vista is a lot more than just "a few simple modifications to Windows Server 2003". There's more new stuff than I can name without checking documentation, but the list includes rewrites for almost all of the major subsystems people would consider part of the OS. A partial list includes:

Windows Presentation Foundation/WPF (codenamed "Avalon")- API + New presentation system (UI, Window Manager (DWM), driver architecture [WDDM - mostly user mode, supports shared resources, scheduling and virtual memory for GPU], color system (WCS), media systems (Media Foundation), et al.)

Windows Communications Foundation/WCF (codenamed "Indigo") - API + New networking stack, implements new RFCs and WS-* standards, new performance technologies from MSR, native WiFi support, unifies IP v4/v6 support, hardware acceleration support, new filtering/monitoring platform, network access protection, more).

Local and distributed ACID Transactions support in the kernel (Kernel Transaction Manager/KTM), file-system (Transactional NTFS/TxF), Registry (TxR) and via the Distributed Transactions Coordinator (DTC).

New I/O (Prioritization, Completion/Cancelation), logging (CLFS), power management, memory management, scheduling, and tracing technologies in the kernel.

Inclusion of security technologies like Session 0 isolation, ASLR and (for 64-bit systems, Kernel PatchGuard).

New PnP architecture for locally connected and wireless devices. Support coming for UWB devices like WUSB.

New Workflow (Windows Workflow Foundation/WF) and Automation engines, codec interfaces, filtering, and indexing infrastructure.

New Audio subsystem (user mode, better discoverability and presentation of device endpoints, higher-quality mixing, lower latency, more flexible for ISV additions).

New image-based installation and boot architecture for the OS, restart manager for applications, and installer architecture for device drivers.

Out-of-band additions:
New command shell (PowerShell) and PowerShell-based MMC.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Its not the kernel
by hraq on Mon 21st Aug 2006 01:53 in reply to "RE: Its not the kernel"
hraq Member since:
2005-07-06

All the features you mentioned above could be done by Apple in just 2 years, and it would probably be done better. Microsoft with its huge resources could build up 1 OS in 2 year from scratch if they want to, but they don't. Anyway, the MS design really sucks in comparision with OSs like Apple, linux and Unix; who said that transparency and effects are more important to me than decent shortcut system that is even missing in vista!

Apple, and linux are better handled when working with because everything works with just one set of shortcuts that doesn't change from App to App. And the Graphics Dead Zones in Microsoft shows no respect for small screens, which would be consumed with spaces.

Internet Explorer and Windows Explorer are booth under developed and way much more old technologies, already available in linux. Check konqueror and its view profiles and tell me if windows Explorer does have something like it that will reduced the clutter of 6 opened windows.

MS effort is unfortunately too little too long! and I doubt it would be more interesting like the old days of 1995. And now I am working to replace all my networks to OSX and OSX server for the peace of mind from viruses and instabilities.

Reply Parent Score: 1