Linked by Eugenia Loli on Thu 31st Aug 2006 01:29 UTC, submitted by sequethin
NetBSD Charles Hannum, co-founder of NetBSD posted to 3 major BSD lists saying that "The NetBSD Project has stagnated to the point of irrelevance. It has gotten to the point that being associated with the project is often more of a liability than an asset. I will attempt to explain how this happened, what the current state of affairs is, and what needs to be done to attempt to fix the situation."
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RE[2]: Linux
by nick on Thu 31st Aug 2006 04:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Linux"
nick
Member since:
2006-04-17

Wow, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. I am not sure you should say such things until you look at the source for *BSD's and then compare it to Linux. Linux source code is disgusting and someday will come back to bite...

Actually I have looked at parts of Linux and FreeBSD
(VM in particular) kernel source code. I happen to
think there is nothing wrong with Linux.

But you don't have to take my word for it:
http://lwn.net/1999/0121/a/vmreview.html

"In general terms, linux's VM system is much cleaner
then FreeBSD's... and I mean a *whole lot* cleaner"

"Well, the main thing is that the Linux VM system is
very, very clean compared to the FreeBSD implementation."

"Linux demarks interrupts from supervisor code much
better then we do."

And while FreeBSD may have been improved since then,
it retains the same overall VM design from that time,
as does Linux (although Linux now has a reverse
mapping infrastructure).

What makes you say it is disgusting?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Linux
by lopisaur on Thu 31st Aug 2006 16:54 in reply to "RE[2]: Linux"
lopisaur Member since:
2006-02-27

That was written by Matt Dillon, who went on to fork FreeBSD and created DragonflyBSD, since he didn't like the project's direction back then. While Matt certainly has/had a point, I PERSONALLY (don't want to start a flamewar or insult Matt in any way) think the cavallier thing for him to do would have been to stick with the punches and keep on working on FreeBSD as he was (and I believe he was doing some pretty good work).

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Linux
by Don T. Bothers on Thu 31st Aug 2006 17:20 in reply to "RE[3]: Linux"
Don T. Bothers Member since:
2006-03-15

"While Matt certainly has/had a point, I PERSONALLY (don't want to start a flamewar or insult Matt in any way) think the cavallier thing for him to do would have been to stick with the punches and keep on working on FreeBSD as he was (and I believe he was doing some pretty good work)."

I disagree. I think it was really good for BSD in general that Matt broke off and did his own thing. He had the motivation to do it and the will to follow through, so why not? Who knows, in a few years, it might be the reason why people still will be using BSDs.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Linux
by sbergman27 on Thu 31st Aug 2006 17:25 in reply to "RE[3]: Linux"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

lopisaur,

I don't really have a stake in this, but I do want to point out that you might desire to clarify your use of the word "cavalier":

"adj: given to haughty disregard of others"

I don't think it is what you meant. But I'm not sure exactly what you did mean. "Civil", perhaps? Constructive?

Regards,
Steve

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Linux
by bubbayank on Thu 31st Aug 2006 16:56 in reply to "RE[2]: Linux"
bubbayank Member since:
2005-07-15

But you don't have to take my word for it:
http://lwn.net/1999/0121/a/vmreview.html


No, I don't. I also don't have to take an article that is SEVEN YEARS OLD as some kind of "proof" either. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd realize that some time after that Matt and others totally revamped the VM and it currently bears no resemblance to the old system.

Nice troll though!

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Linux
by nick on Fri 1st Sep 2006 00:41 in reply to "RE[3]: Linux"
nick Member since:
2006-04-17

No, I don't. I also don't have to take an article that is SEVEN YEARS OLD as some kind of "proof" either. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd realize that some time after that Matt and others totally revamped the VM and it currently bears no resemblance to the old system.

FreeBSD continues to use the Mach VM architecture that
it always has. What do you mean, "bears no resemblance"? You may be thinking of UVM in NetBSD,
however that still bears a signifcant resemblance
to Mach VM.

Nice troll though!

The reason it appears that Matt thought Linux was so
much cleaner is:

"They are able to completely avoid the vm_object
stacking (and related complexity) that we do, and
they are able to completely avoid most of the pmap
complexity in FreeBSD as well."

Because Linux stores per-page mapping information in
pagetables. It still does, and FreeBSD still uses
vm_objects.

Anyway, the point of my post wasn't to somehow "prove"
Linux is better, but to point out how ridiculous it is
to say "Linux code is disgusting" without anything to
back it up with and probably never having looked at
either code base in their life. That was the real troll.

Reply Parent Score: 3