Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 31st Dec 2006 17:26 UTC, submitted by Charles A Landemaine
PC-BSD Just in time for the new year, the PC-BSD team is pleased to announce the immediate availability of PC-BSD version 1.3 for public download. You may download this release and view the change log. The team is also launching a web design contest for the new web site of 2007.
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vegai
Member since:
2005-12-25

"With PC-BSD, you have 4 (!) choices about how to install software: PBI, portinstall/portupgrade, (classical) make, pkg_add. But if you concentrate on the PBI system, you'll always be fine. "

If PC-BSD tries to be a sort of "for-dummies" system, having 4 choices as such is a bug, not a feature.

Though perhaps it can be ignored if just using PBI indeed works. But never never tell a non-BSD user that in order to update the system, you need to run three make commands, and then to upgrade the rest, you need a few more commands. Linux people are used to doing all that in a single command.

Edited 2007-01-01 08:42

Reply Parent Score: 1

rapont Member since:
2005-07-06

Though perhaps it can be ignored if just using PBI indeed works. But never never tell a non-BSD user that in order to update the system, you need to run three make commands, and then to upgrade the rest, you need a few more commands. Linux people are used to doing all that in a single command.

LOL - I had a debate with a FreeBSD user friend of mine about this - I kept on asking him why that method was superior to the Linux single command - after a long, long debate he resorted to the sentence "It just is" :-p

The same guy also told me when I was moaning that there should be a simple "security centre" in Ubuntu where you control firewall/antivirus/antispam etc that people who use OSS software don't need security products as the code is so superior and that security software is an MS-only plague. Sad to say - he had been using FreeBSD for years!

Edited 2007-01-01 14:26

Reply Parent Score: 1

Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

But never never tell a non-BSD user that in order to update the system, you need to run three make commands, and then to upgrade the rest, you need a few more commands. Linux people are used to doing all that in a single command.

Where did you read that? People are trolling. It's just not true. To install, say, seamonkey on PC-BSD, you have 3 possibilities:

1. Install the application like on Windows (.pbi file)
2. Install the seamonkey package with: pkg_add -r seamonkey
3. Compile seamonkey from ports: cd /usr/ports/www/seamonkey && make install clean

AFAICT, on Linux you are pretty much limited to apt-get or yum.

one thing that always put me off BSD was the people who use *BSD - they see anyone who uses Linux as an enemy who is just as bad as a Vista user. I think a more accurate statement would be that "BSD fanboi's are 10x worse than Linux ones"

Ok, one more troll. Please show me on a BSD forum a comment that bashes a Linux user. Most BSD users are also Linux users, so your argument doesn't make sense. One of the reason some people leave the Linux community for BSD is precisely because the Linux gurus are pedant and treat n00bs as stupid. You don't see that among the BSD community.

The same guy also told me when I was moaning that there should be a simple "security centre" in Ubuntu where you control firewall/antivirus/antispam etc that people who use OSS software don't need security products as the code is so superior and that security software is an MS-only plague. Sad to say - he had been using FreeBSD for years!

Was he wrong? I doubt he ever dealt with viruses on his FreeBSD box. I think he was only talking about anti-virus which don't make sense on FreeBSD unless if you use it as a mail server. Obviously firewall and antispam are different, any system is affected.

Reply Parent Score: 5

Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

First of all, you're completely right. But I'd like to make a few additions:

"To install, say, seamonkey on PC-BSD, you have 3 possibilities:

1. Install the application like on Windows (.pbi file)
2. Install the seamonkey package with: pkg_add -r seamonkey
3. Compile seamonkey from ports: cd /usr/ports/www/seamonkey && make install clean"


Oh, you have one more, so 4 (!) possibilities, namely portinstall / portupgrade. To be technically exactly, portinstall can do what no. 2 and 3 do, but it also cares about the package database integrity. Looking at no. 2 and 3, you should run

# pkgdb -aF

before and after, just for security.

portinstall can a) compile from source or b) use a precompiled package. It can also create a precompiled package from waht you just compiled from source. (I use this way to compile a bunch of applications once and then having precompiled packages to add on another system.)

This will install seamonkey from source:

# portinstall seamonkey

(You can add -p to have the precompiled package stored in /usr/ports/packages/.)

This will install seamonkey from a precompiled package, which is fetched automatically:

# portinstall -P seamonkey

(You can use -PP instead of -P to use such packages only, especially for dependencies.)

For more information and examples, please refer to "man portinstall".

And to upgrade to a newer version of seamonkey, you would do this:

# portupgrade seamonkey

(Use additional options as desired.)

But as I said before, the use of the PBI system is recommended. Novice users should always use it until they really know what they do.

So what's the problem here? Surely, no problem.

As a comment: My neighbour uses PC-BSD for half a year now and he's happy with it. He has no problems using the PBI system, it works fine for him. He doesn't even feel the need to install applications with pkg_add, portinstall or make. If I may say it this way, he's a computer illiterate; the PC-BSD workstation is his first own system - and he loves it. I'll give him the 1.3 installation discs soon after doing a data backup via LAN.

"AFAICT, on Linux you are pretty much limited to apt-get or yum."

What about YaST? Or am I mixing up things here? (I have to excuse, I don't use Linux on a daily basis.)

Most BSD users are also Linux users, so your argument doesn't make sense. One of the reason some people leave the Linux community for BSD is precisely because the Linux gurus are pedant and treat n00bs as stupid. You don't see that among the BSD community."

Can confirm.

"I doubt he ever dealt with viruses on his FreeBSD box. "

Same here. :-)

"I think he was only talking about anti-virus which don't make sense on FreeBSD unless if you use it as a mail server."

That's correct. If you're running a mail server, you have to be careful about proper administration. If you're running just a simple workstation, you usually won't encounter any problems with PC-BSD. The firewall settings (ipfw) are good by default. Spam is a problem in your INBOX where you can apply the proper rules in your favourite mail client. And viruses... I don't need to say anything. :-)

Reply Parent Score: 4

vegai Member since:
2005-12-25

"Where did you read that? People are trolling. It's just not true. To install, say, seamonkey on PC-BSD, you > have 3 possibilities:

1. Install the application like on Windows (.pbi file)
2. Install the seamonkey package with: pkg_add -r seamonkey
3. Compile seamonkey from ports: cd /usr/ports/www/seamonkey && make install clean "

You're installing new software. I was talking about updating the whole system.


The other things you said were not against my comments, and I don't disagree with them.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

"If PC-BSD tries to be a sort of "for-dummies" system, having 4 choices as such is a bug, not a feature. "

You should have read my posting eintirely without picking a sentence out of the context. The PBI system is the one for "dummies" and it is strongly recommended to use. So the "dummy" does not even know about the choice he could have.

The better educated ones may use other ways than PBI (as I have explained), but they should not do it because of possible side effects. If you know what you're doing and if you are familiar enough with FreeBSD itself, you surely won't use PC-BSD. You would use a "normal" FreeBSD instead.

It's just because PC-BSD is FreeBSD you have these choices. Okay?

"Though perhaps it can be ignored if just using PBI indeed works.

It works, and it works well. In order to upgrade the system itself, the use of the installation CDs (e. g. from 1.2 to 1.3) is a good way.

"But never never tell a non-BSD user that in order to update the system, you need to run three make commands, and then to upgrade the rest, you need a few more commands. "

"The rest"? Please be sure to see the difference between the base system and the installed applications.

"Linux people are used to doing all that in a single command. "

Which command is it? Is it available in all existing Linux distributions in the same way? Could you please tell me the command?

Reply Parent Score: 2

Lunitik Member since:
2005-08-07

'smart upgrade'

Available for most any distro - although, afaik, not default on any at this time...

Hopefully, one day, will replace RPM in the LSB.

Reply Parent Score: 1

vegai Member since:
2005-12-25

"The rest"? Please be sure to see the difference between the base system and the installed applications.

I know the difference. It's irrelevant.


""Linux people are used to doing all that in a single command. "

Which command is it? Is it available in all existing Linux distributions in the same way? Could you please tell me the command?"

In my distro, it's pacman -Suy. Why would it matter whether all distributions do it the same way? Some BSD systems have different schemes for doing this as well.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"But never never tell a non-BSD user that in order to update the system, you need to run three make commands, and then to upgrade the rest, you need a few more commands. Linux people are used to doing all that in a single command. "

Funny how I only have to use one command, "pkg_add -u", to upgrade all packages on OpenBSD. As fun as it is to make blanket statements it does not reflect the real world.
It's like if I would say "Linux package management lacks dependency tracking" and basing that "fact" entirely upon my usage of Slackware and extrapolating that to all Linux distros.

Reply Parent Score: 5

vegai Member since:
2005-12-25

"Funny how I only have to use one command, "pkg_add -u", to upgrade all packages on OpenBSD. As fun as it is to make blanket statements it does not reflect the real world. "

Funny how people continuously evade the issue.

I was referring to updating the whole system.

Reply Parent Score: 1

arielb Member since:
2006-11-15

I don't think anyone can really say that linux or bsd could ever be easy to use "for dummies". But i think one of the reasons why linux is so popular as a server is because it is the easiest of the desktop unix as well as free. freebsd is of course also free but people want to use the server that they are familiar with from everyday use. Maybe this will change things for bsd server adoption.

Reply Parent Score: 2