Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 3rd Apr 2007 23:18 UTC
Sun Solaris, OpenSolaris "Sun's CEO Jonathan Schwartz loves to splatter the media with the line that Windows, Red Hat Linux and Solaris stand as the only operating systems of significance in the server kingdom. We've spent the last few years struggling to appreciate the seriousness of that claim. Sun's declining system sales failed to inspire much optimism about the company conquering the data centers of tomorrow with a deflating 'venerable' OS. A couple of recent items, however, have tweaked our view of Schwartz's favored claim. It could well be that Solaris - of all things - provides the 'iPod moment' Sun seeks." In the meantime, Sun upped the speed of some of its SPARC chips.
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RE[3]: The turning point
by binarycrusader on Wed 4th Apr 2007 19:03 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: The turning point"
binarycrusader
Member since:
2005-07-06

Just a couple of points:

I've pushed an idea through the marketing mailing list for a "Solaris Workstation Edition" where by there are periodic re-spins every 4 months,


That's what Solaris Express Developer Edition is now.

...and packages for the distribution are available on a respository so that upgrades and updates can be done without needing to download an entirely new iso.


Unlikely to ever happen. The whole point of Solaris Express is that it isn't upgradeable easily between versions so Sun can invest more resources into building it and less resources on trying to support it. What you're asking for is for free support. They might be willing to do this under a paid scheme, but I don't think it is worth their time. Upgrades aren't always possible between these versions because packages are split, etc.

I also have pushed through the idea that ON builds, not only include sources but pre-build packages so that novice users, and developers who have little time to compile, can download the latest and greatest, and test it in every day user - thus expanding the pool of testers.


They have already started to do this with JDS, so it isn't a new idea. As far as sources, I think most people would want those on a separate set of media. The download is pretty big already. I don't see how source code will expand the pool of testers.

You can already download the latest and greatest as often as it is available -- from the individual community's pages or when it becomes part of the next ISO release.

There seems to be a disconnect that you're a developer and a user, and they occupy seperate spaces; what about the developer sitting there writing code who wants to listen to his mp3's whilst working? what about the developer who does some part time programming at home, but also likes watching DVD's and movies on his computer?


You can play mp3s and some video formats out of the box on Solaris Express editions with RealPlayer (I think S10U2 and newer as well).

This is where Sun falls down, assuming you can neatly catagories people into pigeon holes, and they never leave them - all the developer does is write code; I'd love to meet a programmer who only doesn't programming on his computer.


Remember their original target audience. The corporate world. At my employer, we're not allowed to have mp3s, etc. at all on the workstations. So yes, the only thing I can do on my "workstation" is work.

Most of these ideas have been around for a while. They aren't new really, no offense ;)

Edited 2007-04-04 19:04 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: The turning point
by ormandj on Wed 4th Apr 2007 20:34 in reply to "RE[3]: The turning point"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

I understand/agree with a lot of what you're saying. However, in reference to the dev/desktop version:

That's what Solaris Express Developer Edition is now.


... snip snip ...

Unlikely to ever happen. The whole point of Solaris Express is that it isn't upgradeable easily between versions so Sun can invest more resources into building it and less resources on trying to support it. What you're asking for is for free support. They might be willing to do this under a paid scheme, but I don't think it is worth their time. Upgrades aren't always possible between these versions because packages are split, etc.


Those two are contradictory. What developer/workstation user wants to have to do a complete install every time there is a new version/updates available? That's counter-productive, and a great way to waste time.

I love Solaris, and I'm a big supporter of the "new" Sun (and I like the direction they are headed, as well) - but their workstation/desktop/developer push quite frankly sucks right now. They're headed in the right direction, but until there is an OS release that is modern enough to use on a day to day basis as a desktop/workstation (which is easily upgraded) available, nobody is really going to want to run it.

I'd love to have a Solaris workstation right now, but I can't - on a clean install (Sol10 11/06), on a fully supported system, using the included browser/etc, even going to sun.com and moving over the image rollovers "lags" the display. Installing nVidia's drivers doesn't fix the problem, either. Various other "niggles" of this sort exist. This isn't just on one machine, it's on all workstations I've given Solaris a shot on. I've seen things like this commented on repeatedly, and repeatedly been told it's a known issue and will be fixed sometime in the future. Not a good answer to hear!

Not to mention the outdated software, not slightly, but severely. I forget the version number offhand, but Mozilla? Come on...

When Sun can iron these issues out and provide a usable and at least somewhat modern OS, it'll appeal more to desktop/workstation/developer users. Right now, I have to dual boot (actually, I use vmware) Solaris, because it's unusable as a day to day desktop for me, even in a "workstation" capacity. Being upgradeable without ISO downloads and so forth is a major component of usability.

Sure does a heck of a lot right, though! That's why I'm so interested and hopeful things keep moving forward in the right direction. Maybe one of the XX/07 releases will finally answer with FF2 and so forth. ;) An updated Gnome from SX wouldn't hurt, either!

Just checked, here's the info on the web browser in Solaris 10 11/06:

PKGINST: SUNWmozilla
NAME: Mozilla Web browser
CATEGORY: MOZ17,application,JDS3
ARCH: i386
VERSION: 1.7,REV=10.0.3.2004.12.21.11.47

Mozilla 1.7. Yikes.

Edited 2007-04-04 20:53 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: The turning point
by Robert Escue on Wed 4th Apr 2007 22:06 in reply to "RE[4]: The turning point"
Robert Escue Member since:
2005-07-08

At least Sun is shipping Mozilla 1.7 in Solaris 10 as opposed to Netscape 4.79 with Solaris 9 and 4.78 in Solaris 8. Solaris Express DE Build 56 ships with Firefox 2.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: The turning point
by binarycrusader on Thu 5th Apr 2007 00:25 in reply to "RE[4]: The turning point"
binarycrusader Member since:
2005-07-06

Those two are contradictory. What developer/workstation user wants to have to do a complete install every time there is a new version/updates available? That's counter-productive, and a great way to waste time.

Consiering that new versions / updates are only released quarterly, not very often. The point of the Developer version is to allow developers to experiment with new technology. It is *not* a fully supported stable release intended for developers that are looking for a hassle-free maintenance environment.

You misunderstand the purpose of Solaris Express.

I love Solaris, and I'm a big supporter of the "new" Sun (and I like the direction they are headed, as well) - but their workstation/desktop/developer push quite frankly sucks right now. They're headed in the right direction, but until there is an OS release that is modern enough to use on a day to day basis as a desktop/workstation (which is easily upgraded) available, nobody is really going to want to run it.

That is subjective at best. I used Solaris 10 GA (not express) on my workstation every day for a year or more before my work changed that I needed functionality only found in the Express releases. Therefore it fit my definition and need of a "modern" OS. It is far from accurate to imply that Solaris 10 (even the general release) is not a "modern" OS.

By your reckoning, Windows XP, and Windows 98 would also probably not be a "modern" OS since they didn't come with out of the box (originally) DVD or full mp3 support.


I'd love to have a Solaris workstation right now, but I can't - on a clean install (Sol10 11/06), on a fully supported system, using the included browser/etc, even going to sun.com and moving over the image rollovers "lags" the display. Installing nVidia's drivers doesn't fix the problem, either. Various other "niggles" of this sort exist. This isn't just on one machine, it's on all workstations I've given Solaris a shot on. I've seen things like this commented on repeatedly, and repeatedly been told it's a known issue and will be fixed sometime in the future. Not a good answer to hear!


Installing the nVidia drivers fixed that problem for me. I can only assume there is something else going on.


Not to mention the outdated software, not slightly, but severely. I forget the version number offhand, but Mozilla? Come on...


Solaris is an *enterprise* level operating system. Not your break-my-gentoo-fedora-whatever OS. This means just like RedHat Enterprise Linux, Debian Stable (arguably enterprise) and others, yes, things are NOT bleeding edge and by some people's reckoning "severely out of date."

When Sun can iron these issues out and provide a usable and at least somewhat modern OS,

They already have a "usable" and more than "modern OS"...just not by your definition which is rather inaccurate.

Mozilla 1.7. Yikes.


Oh whoopee doo. Seriously. RedHat has the same thing with RedHat Enterprise Linux, so does SuSE with their Enterprise distribution.

You want a newer browser? There are newer versions available that Sun contributes from ftp.mozilla.org, and from www.opera.com!

Finally, it is hardly fair to complain about the versions of software found in Solaris 10 considering it went "gold" a few *years* ago. Their customers demand stability, support, and compatibility. Yes, that's right, their *paying* customers. This means certain restrictions are in place on what can be updated and how often.

Edited 2007-04-05 00:28

Reply Parent Score: 3