Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 19th Jun 2007 10:51 UTC, submitted by Jordi Bruguera
SuSE, openSUSE Novell has shipped the first service pack for SUSE Linux Enterprise 10. "Novell today announced that the first service pack for SUSE Linux Enterprise 10 is now available to customers worldwide. Featuring significant enhancements in virtualization, high-performance computing, security, interoperability and system management, SUSE Linux Enterprise 10 SP1 from Novell lets organizations take advantage of the latest technical advances in the best-engineered, lowest-cost and most-interoperable platform for mission-critical computing."
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RE: OES2
by segedunum on Tue 19th Jun 2007 14:20 UTC in reply to "OES2"
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

For Novell, this release needs to be solid so many of the NetWare shops out there will finally take leap...even if it's still a virtual NetWare.

By all accounts, few are going to make that leap. From the people I speak to running Netware, and some of the regulars posting on Novell's blogs and forums, that's something they're not keen on doing. Current Netware customers just don't know why on Earth they should be massively inconvenienced by having to install a somewhat half-baked version of Linux in OES just so they can virtualise Netware on it and continue working the same way they have been doing for years for ZERO benefit. Virtualisation just increases the risks of things to go wrong with no appreciable benefit for these people - despite the hype Novell has attached to it. Novell is just killing their flagship product that brings in the money, and that sends out a bad signal to people.

Novell have failed to sell this to their existing customers, and make it easy and painless. They STILL haven't ported Netware services to a Linux environment and kernel. They have failed to create a seamless plan for moving Netware -> Linux, failed to create straightforward compatibility tools, failed to create quality documentation on moving, failed to sell any real benefits of virtualising Netware to their existing customers if that is their direction, failed to provide easy tools for migrating existing Netware to virtualised Netware and failed to provide sweeteners that would really have helped such as good quality graphical tools. By quality graphical tools I'm talking about stuff that would have been good enough to make a Windows administrator look over the shoulder of a Netware guy and mutter "Bugger".

You see, despite the talk about Linux, Novell's biggest trouble is that they're hemorrhaging Netware customers and money far, far faster than they're gaining any Linux ones - and they're losing them to Microsoft and Windows Server on the whole. Yes, that company they did a deal with ;-). If people are using Active Directory, why do people need Novell? They're just simply not giving their existing customers cast-iron reasons why they should stay with Novell and then build their Linux and other businesses from there.

All that should have been started in earnest as soon as Novell bought Suse, because this was a long-term process started long before then that Linux was supposed to solve. However, Novell didn't understand Linux or open source software from the top down at board and management level. When they bought Suse they simply thought they'd bought Linux...and that was it.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: OES2
by IanSVT on Tue 19th Jun 2007 14:41 in reply to "RE: OES2"
IanSVT Member since:
2005-07-06

How about the benefit of being able to use Linux device drivers? Or how about being able to use more third party software? I think Novell forum users and bloggers would all agree, albeit grudgingly, that there aren't many people lining up to write drivers or NLMs for NetWare. How many server hardware vendors are support NetWare these days? How about Linux?

They have ported NetWare servers to OES Linux. NSS, NCP, eDirectory. They had this in place years ago when OES Linux was first released. This did start this process when they purchased Suse, despite your claim otherwise. However, getting everything to a production quality level has taken a long time and a lot of work. Do you think their engineers have been sitting around scratching themselves this whole time?

This brings me back to my point. OES2 needs to be of a high quality to give people the avenue to finally move with some confidence. Apparently, part of the release will be some good migration tools.

I read like a major Novell apologist here. To lend some objectivity to my point of view, I believe Novell has flubbed some things with OES Linux. However, like I said, this release needs to be the reason to finally make the move. I know it's going to be the make it or break it release for my organization.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: OES2
by segedunum on Tue 19th Jun 2007 16:50 in reply to "RE[2]: OES2"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

How about the benefit of being able to use Linux device drivers?

People currently using Netware are using NETWARE. Using Linux drivers is neither here nor there to them unless everything just works, and Novell doesn't really seem to understand that. It's not something a Netware person consciously thinks about. There isn't something magical happening by virtue of using Linux.

They have ported NetWare servers to OES Linux.

That wasn't the context. I asked whether all this stuff had been ported to a Linux environment, not OES Linux, and whether someone could run a Linux distribution, easily install some Netware compatibility libraries (and command line tools), with support in the kernel, and have the vast majority of their stuff just work when they moved it from Netware - virtualising Netware being a last resort.

That isn't the case, and it would really have helped in getting people to use and work with Netware again. Novell's problems are two-fold really with Netware:

1. It makes the lion's share of their revenue, but the customer base is falling.
2. Part of the reason why the customer base is falling is that Netware just isn't getting into the hands of enough people to use it.

Catch 22.

This did start this process when they purchased Suse, despite your claim otherwise.

They didn't start any kind of process that I have described after the purchase of Suse. I think they thought that Linux was magically going to make something happen for them, and that by buying Ximian and Suse they were somehow buying open source and Linux. It's become pretty clear that Novell had no real plan at all.

Do you think their engineers have been sitting around scratching themselves this whole time?

To a paying Novell customer, yes, that's exactly what it looks like unfortunately. I mean, nobody wanted this to happen.

I've known a few people who've done a lot with Netware over the years, and they were pretty excited when the whole Novell/Suse thing happened. Many Suse using people were pretty excited as well, because they thought they were getting more than they then had. They sent their MSCEs on alternate training courses and waited, waited, waited, waited and then waited some more.

In the meantime, as Netware servers have got past their sell-buy date they were replaced by W2K3 servers because they had volume licenses for Windows and Microsoft were more than happy to give them anything they wanted - obviously. Did you know that as a result of the Microsoft/Novell deal the agreement for coupons for SLES servers means that Suse has to be a subservient server to Windows domain controllers? The SLES servers could disappear, and no one would notice.

The net effect of the deal is that SLES is being used as a temporary stop-gap measure in moving Linux servers to Windows, so that in five years, when the deal expires, there will be no more Novell servers and no more Novell.

I mean, in almost four years the vast majority of Netware customers have went from being quite excited about everything and willing to give much of the Windows infrastructure the heave-ho, to abandoning any hope of moving to Linux and using Netware to do it.

This brings me back to my point. OES2 needs to be of a high quality to give people the avenue to finally move with some confidence. Apparently, part of the release will be some good migration tools.

Well, quite. Arguably, it's already a bit late to arrest the process that has already started really.

I read like a major Novell apologist here. To lend some objectivity to my point of view, I believe Novell has flubbed some things with OES Linux.

Well, you want to be positive. I want to be positive. Every Netware using person wants to be positive. No one wants to see Windows waltz in and replace a perfectly good network operating system and perfectly good, flexible software.

Sadly, I just can't be positive no matter how I think now. There's an awful lot more to that Novell/Microsoft deal than just open source and patents that everyone is getting so hung up about. I'll quote from the Godfather Part II, and you can insert the right name:

"Roth played this one beautifully."

Edited 2007-06-19 16:53

Reply Parent Score: 5