Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 28th Jun 2007 18:37 UTC, submitted by anonymous
Intel Theo de Raadt wrote about the Intel Core 2 Duo chip: "Various developers are busy implementing workarounds for serious bugs in Intel's Core 2 cpu. These processors are buggy as hell, and some of these bugs don't just cause development/debugging problems, but will assuredly be exploitable from userland code." Intel has given a response to the concerns as well.
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Is dual-core worth it?
by ozonehole on Thu 28th Jun 2007 19:30 UTC
ozonehole
Member since:
2006-01-07

Although this story is about Intels Core 2 Duo, it's also mentioned that AMD is having similar problems with dual core. In fact, I vaguely recall reports of such problems with dual core designs from at least two years ago.

My question to all - is dual core really worth it? Do you get such a fantastic speed increase that it's worthwhile creating a gigantic security hole that can/will be exploited?

And I wonder - is quad-core as bad, or worse?

Since Intel and AMD seem committed to making everything dual-core, maybe it's time to take a look at VIA again. See mini-itx.com - whole machines can be bought from damnsmalllinux.org - that's where I'm going for my next machine.

And to think that I almost bought a Dell dual-core...

RE: Is dual-core worth it?
by rayiner on Thu 28th Jun 2007 19:38 in reply to "Is dual-core worth it?"
rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

I've been using dual-core machines since the second shipment of the Athlon X2s. Each of the ones I've used (X2, PPC 970MP, Core Duo, Core 2) has been extremely stable. So IMHO, the claims about errata in these chips are overstated.

In any case, dual core doesn't really make a chip more prone to bugginess. Since the cores are clones of each other, the only additional source of bugs really results from the design of the interconnect/shared cache, which doesn't add that huge amount of complexity.

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RE: Is dual-core worth it?
by Luminair on Thu 28th Jun 2007 19:49 in reply to "Is dual-core worth it?"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

RE: Is dual-core worth it?

Yes

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 5

RE: Is dual-core worth it?
by systyrant on Thu 28th Jun 2007 20:14 in reply to "Is dual-core worth it?"
systyrant Member since:
2007-01-18

I believe the reason for dual cores was because they were hitting a ceiling on clock speeds and heat dissipation. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

However dual cores don't double your speed. The only way a dual core will offer you any performance boost is in running multiple application and/or running applications that can take advantage of multiple cores/processors.

Only you can really answer your question. If you have application than can take advantage of multiple cores or you run with a lot of programs running then yes dual cores will make a difference.

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RE[2]: Is dual-core worth it?
by jbuchman on Thu 28th Jun 2007 20:48 in reply to "RE: Is dual-core worth it?"
jbuchman Member since:
2005-07-06

I actually can't remember the last time i only ran one program at a time... So your argument is rather VOID.

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RE[2]: Is dual-core worth it?
by babernat on Fri 29th Jun 2007 02:30 in reply to "RE: Is dual-core worth it?"
babernat Member since:
2007-02-21

My understanding is that threads are supposed to be spread across multiple cores (assuming the OS handles it). In that case, wouldn't any application that is multi-threaded take advantage of multiple cores?

An example is I was writing a swing app and made a stupid mistake where I had an infinite loop in my ui code. But since it was operating in a single thread it pegged only a single core and I was none the wiser until I happened to look at my processor usage. I had never set out to write my app for dual core.

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Dual-core has nothing to do with it
by Wes Felter on Thu 28th Jun 2007 20:56 in reply to "Is dual-core worth it?"
Wes Felter Member since:
2005-11-15

The old single-core processors had just as many bugs. There is no way to avoid errata.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 3

philicorda Member since:
2005-12-31

What about the propeller chip?
It has eight 32bit cores, and I think no errata at all.
The designers placed all transistors and wiring manually, without use of standard IP blocks or high level design languages. So it is a 'full custom' chip.

From the site:
"We designed our own logic, RAMs, ROMs, PLLs, band-gap references, oscillators, and even ESD-hardened I/O pads"

Of course this does not guarantee it is error free, but as it's a small processor designed totally in house by fanatics, it just might be possible.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 1

1c3d0g Member since:
2005-07-06

Exactly. Designing a CPU without any errata cannot be done, and if anyone says otherwise...well then, make your own damn chips and see how far you'll go before giving up. Designing CPU's/GPU's etc. is not a trivial task, and anyone expecting perfection out of them has his head up his ass.

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RE: Is dual-core worth it?
by leech on Fri 29th Jun 2007 00:35 in reply to "Is dual-core worth it?"
leech Member since:
2006-01-10

I built a Core 2 Duo system for a guy I know. I had to show him how to use DeVeDe to create a Video DVD. While it ran it took 50% of the CPU. So we ran two at a time and it took the full 100%. On my single core, it just took the 100%. So yeah, dual core processors are useful. Though of course it helps to have an Operating System that makes proper use of it, even if the programs themselves are only single-thread capable.

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RE: Is dual-core worth it?
by BluenoseJake on Fri 29th Jun 2007 02:31 in reply to "Is dual-core worth it?"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

The problem isn't dual core, single core or 11-core, it's just you build a beast with a few hundred million microscopic solid state components, linked together by strands a few molecules thick, mistakes can happen. When they are made in hardware, they are harder to fix. The original pentium had problems with floating point calculations. sometimes, mistakes are inevitable.

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RE: Is dual-core worth it?
by Laurence on Fri 29th Jun 2007 09:31 in reply to "Is dual-core worth it?"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

"

My question to all - is dual core really worth it? Do you get such a fantastic speed increase that it's worthwhile creating a gigantic security hole that can/will be exploited?
"

It's not about a speed increase in the traditional sense (ie GHz), it's about being able to parallel process multi-threaded applications thus reducing overall processing time.

Also I find dual-core systems more stable on Windows machines simply because the system locks up less due to Windows being unable to poll enough tasks to a single core.

In my opinion multi-core systems are the way forward.
So in short, Yes - they are worth it.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2