Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 21st Jul 2007 21:11 UTC, submitted by kwag
PC-BSD The first beta of PC-BSD 1.4 has been released. "After months of hard work, the PC-BSD team is pleased to make available the 1.4 BETA release. This version includes many exciting new features and software, such as 3D desktop support via Beryl, KDE 3.5.7, FreeBSD 6.2, Xorg 7.2, new GUI tools & utilities, and much more." Get it from the download page.
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RE[4]: Wow!
by Doc Pain on Sat 21st Jul 2007 23:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wow!"
Doc Pain
Member since:
2006-10-08

"Those actually do it the right way (the same can't be said about PBIs), cause none of those packages duplicates dependencies left and right which is kind of a nasty security issue."

Don't confuse PC-BSD's PBI packages with the precompiled packages you can use in FreeBSD (and the same way in PC-BSD, too).

PC-BSD offers three kinds of installing applications:

1. PBI (recommended way)

Download, doubleclick, click, click... done.

2. Packages (very comfortable)

# pkg_add -r xmms

3. Ports (when compiling from source is intended or needed in order to compile with certain options)

# cd /usr/ports/multimedia/mplayer
# ee Makefile.local
...
# make install

Numbers 2 and 3 are not consistent with number 1, so be careful and know what you're doing.

" In an ordinary Gnome desktop, every installed application is listed in the applications menu."

PC-BSD is very KDE centric, but the installed PBI applications are listed in a special submenu. Applications installed by ports or packages need to be installed into the menu manually, if I remember correctly.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Wow!
by n0xx on Sun 22nd Jul 2007 01:00 in reply to "RE[4]: Wow!"
n0xx Member since:
2005-07-12

I wasn't confusing precompiled packages with PBIs. On Ubuntu, installing DEBs is as easy as intalling PBIs (double click, pass, ckick, done) except PBIs are bad. Saying that PBIs are nice because it makes the whole installation process easier is like saying that running as root all the time makes the installation process easier. It does indeed, but at the expense of security... without even mentioning the inefficiency and redundancy.

http://autopackage.org/

Autopackage a Linux distro agnostic package system is far superior to PBI, because it checks for dependencies and installs them using the your distro native package manager. Hence Autopackage is much more secure.

However nobody uses Autopackage because you can install stuff using repositories, which is much more convenient than having to search the internet for stuff. Period. If you think otherwise than either you've never used Ubuntu and its "Add/Remove Programs" tool or Synaptic more than once, or your part of that 0.001% of the population that thinks that installing stuff from repos is a bad idea, special when you can select alternate download mirrors with a click.

Hell, even clueless noobs say that being able to install apps and perform system wide upgrades from within an application is the way to go. Oh well...

2. Packages (very comfortable)

Standard issue on every distro, nothing to see here.

3. Ports (when compiling from source is intended or needed in order to compile with certain options)


Gentoo does that. It's a meta distribution, which means that you can stick it on top of your distro of choice, although i really have no clue if it will handle dependencies correctly (eg if it integrates with you distro native package management tool).

So yeah... I'll give some credit do FreeBSD. I'm definitely gonna try it out this summer. To bad PC-BSD doesn't support Gnome, otherwise I'd stick to that. Linux has many flaws, god knows it has... You can say that the lack of standard directory structure, package management tools, console administrative tools among other things are enough to drive a man insane. But you can't say it's hard do install stuff on Linux.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[6]: Wow!
by Core Duo on Sun 22nd Jul 2007 01:14 in reply to "RE[5]: Wow!"
Core Duo Member since:
2007-06-24

installing DEBs is as easy as intalling PBIs (double click, pass, ckick, done)

This is easier for you but not for everybody. Not for me at least.

except PBIs are bad

If it were bad, the software developers wouldn't have invented it, they would have designed it differently. Also, it would be spread everywhere that it's bad. It's not the case, people are loving it.

It does indeed, but at the expense of security.

Why? Applications are run as user, like on Debian (not as root)

Autopackage a Linux distro agnostic package system is far superior to PBI, because it checks for dependencies and installs them using the your distro native package manager. Hence Autopackage is much more secure.

You didn't explain why it's more secure. Because it uses the package manager? That doesn't make it more secure. And PBIs already have dependencies so the job is already done, no need to look for them. So you don't have to be connected to the Internet to install an application. And it doesn't make a PBI insecure.

you can install stuff using repositories, which is much more convenient than having to search the internet for stuff. Period.

You seem to be the kind of Linux nazi who doesn't agree/accept that some people have different tastes and feelings. If you think having to use Synaptic, YaST, Adept or whatever tool to install applications, fine. But there are people who just don't want to use that.

If you think otherwise than either you've never used Ubuntu and its "Add/Remove Programs" tool or Synaptic more than once

I'm pretty confident that 90%+ of PC-BSD users have used it, they mention these tools all the time on the forum. They all ask the differences between Linux and BSD, and *many* of them are also Ubuntu users. I am one of them, since Hoary.

But you can't say it's hard do install stuff on Linux.

Yes I can. I have a hard time to do it, especially when you have to deal with applications of the non-free and multiverse repos. Please bear with me, I'm not a software developer.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[7]: Wow!
by n0xx on Sun 22nd Jul 2007 03:32 in reply to "RE[5]: Wow!"
n0xx Member since:
2005-07-12

This is easier for you but not for everybody. Not for me at least.

Lol, ok then... the hard part must be clicking on a button labeled forward. How can you say its harder if the damn interface is nearly identical? I dunno how it was back on horay, but ever since dapper came along that installing stuff on Ubuntu without the repos has basically been a forward forward forward issue.

Why? Applications are run as user, like on Debian (not as root)
...
You didn't explain why it's more secure

I'm sorry, iill try to explain the best I can. It goes like this:

You install a program via PBI. That program needs a library to run... a library is a piece of software that provides functionality to other pieces of software. The problem with PBIs is that in order to achieve the kind of forward forward forward forward installation simplicity, the guys at PC-BSD have chosen to install every dependency (every library, every application) on the same package. The problem with this approach is not as much one of PBEKAC, as it is a legitimate security threat: If someone finds a vulnerability on any of those ghost dependencies that where installed along with the PBI, the whole system can be compromised. Worst than that, the system updater doesn't apply security fixes to these ghost dependencies. So even if your system-updater fixes your systems lib-gtk2.8, your still pretty much in jeopardy cause every single application you installed with PBIs that uses that lib will still put yout system in jeopardy. This, is why I don't like PBIs.


And PBIs already have dependencies so the job is already done, no need to look for them.

That's the problem. And btw, Ubuntu users don't search for deps. At least I don't.

You seem to be the kind of Linux nazi who doesn't agree/accept that some people have different tastes and feelings. If you think having to use Synaptic, YaST, Adept or whatever tool to install applications, fine. But there are people who just don't want to use that.

Dude, i've used Windows 3.1->vista, DOS, Linux, BeOS and QNX. I've also played with various classic mac Systems (7,8,9), with the classic Amiga, Windows 2003, Hackintosh and Free/Net/OpenBSD. I'm not a Linux nazi, I'm an Operating System Nazi. And damn me if i wont get an OS running on your computer! ;) Seriously now, it's my firm belief that the Ubuntu way is the right way. IMHO, having a texbox 2 clicks away that finds what you want is mathematically simpler than having to browse web pages to find the exact same thing, plus installing. Less clicks, less distance traveled by the mouse. Less environmental variables to consider (eg Is this a trustworthy site?) Basically, more convenient. Period. (I'm gonna get so moded down for my arrogance but boy it tastes so damn sweet right now).

Yes I can. I have a hard time to do it, especially when you have to deal with applications of the non-free and multiverse repos. Please bear with me, I'm not a software developer.

Yeah, the pain of clicking two check boxes. Oh the humanity! ;) Seriously now, I haven't touched Horray for ages... I think you should consider an upgrade to dapper. If not edgy. Like i said, FreeBSD is cool. PBI, at least to my knowledge, its not. I like gnome, otherwise I'd install PC-BSD... Btw (since this discussion is getting kind of cool) How does it compare to Linux in terms of response to stress?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[6]: Wow!
by bsdimp on Sun 22nd Jul 2007 05:33 in reply to "RE[5]: Wow!"
bsdimp Member since:
2007-02-23

One big difference between FreeBSD and any Linux distribution is that the base is completely standardized. This eliminates many of the dependency issues that you see with different linux distributions. The ports system takes care of it, and the packaging of the ports do handle all the dependencies correctly.

While there's a crying need for autopackage in the Linux work, the uniformity of the FreeBSD deployed base makes it unnecessary there.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Wow!
by Oliver on Sun 22nd Jul 2007 09:18 in reply to "RE[5]: Wow!"
Oliver Member since:
2006-07-15

Try Slackware and so on. To the rest, never heard such a nonsense before.

Reply Parent Score: 3