Linked by Eugenia Loli on Thu 8th Sep 2005 16:53 UTC
Gnome The Gnome Project released version 2.12 yesterday. We had a quick look at it by using the latest Gnome Live CD (1.12-pre) and Foresight 0.9.0 (2.12 final) and here are our thoughts over 2.12 and Gnome's status in general.
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RE[3]: Menu editor...
by Eugenia on Thu 8th Sep 2005 18:28 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Menu editor..."
Eugenia
Member since:
2005-06-28

>Adding items is not required

And WHO made the STUDY to really tell if it's required or not??? Can you please direct me to the outcome of the user study made by the Gnome Project? Obviously me, Thom and others need the feature. I agree that for Gnome and KDE applications it should be considered "a bug" if an app comes without a working menu item, but there are other GTK, plain Qt, older X11 apps that don't care about the freedesktop.org standard, and as a user, I MIGHT NEED this application to my everyday work. Therefore, I would want to add it to my gnome menu. Therefore, the current gnome menu editor is too little, and if I may say so, too late.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Menu editor...
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 8th Sep 2005 18:43 in reply to "RE[3]: Menu editor..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Exactly, Eugenia, I was about to post pretty much the same comment.

I've just been browsing through mailing-list archives and gnome-bugzilla, and I can tell from all the posts that the amount of people wanting *normal* menu-editing, like any other DE or OS has, outnumber the people against it. Actually, I couldn't find *anyone* completely against users adding new menu items; most were indifferent to it (probably because only people like us join in ml/bugzila discussions, people that can do stuff like this manually).

Now, you are right that applications should conform to Freedesktop standards, and properly install a decent menu entry; however, not all apps will do that. Compare it to Windows; in essence, every app there should confirm to the admin/user divide in Windows; yet barely any app does that. So, there must be solution to this problem *inside* the DE that people use.

Other than that; how do you know 'normal' users do not need menu editing in GNOME, when it wasn't available for quite some time now? If I got a eurocent for everytime I heard someone complain about the lack of menu-editing in GNOME...

I called this an ego problem because as far as I can tell, the descision to make menu-editing *not* a priority is a developer-inspired descision; not a descision based on user feedback.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Menu editor...
by Daniel Borgmann on Thu 8th Sep 2005 19:30 in reply to "RE[4]: Menu editor..."
Daniel Borgmann Member since:
2005-07-08

Whether or not people *want* this feature is a different topic. It's still mostly a cosmetical issue, because adding launchers does exactly the same thing, only visually different. This doesn't mean that adding menu items is useless (although for me it is), but you should at least understand this point of view.

I called this an ego problem because as far as I can tell, the descision to make menu-editing *not* a priority is a developer-inspired descision; not a descision based on user feedback.

But that's exactly wrong. There was never a decision to make menu-editing "not a priority". It didn't make it for GNOME 2.10, shit happens. Even before 2.10, the design for the current menu editor existed[1], so the reason the menu editor is in its current state is that it was planned like this all the way, not because developers didn't bother to work on it. For power users plenty of alternatives exist already, so I fail to see the big problem. Whether or not a more advanced tool would be useful for everyone is obviously something people disagree about. It's not an ego problem but simply a matter of different opinion[2].

[1] http://www.gnome.org/~calum/usability/specs/menu-edit/
[2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2005-April/msg000...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Menu editor...
by on Thu 8th Sep 2005 19:59 in reply to "RE[3]: Menu editor..."
Member since:

Eugenia... calm down ;) lol
Love & Peace...

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[4]: Menu editor...
by on Fri 9th Sep 2005 00:20 in reply to "RE[3]: Menu editor..."
Member since:

>>Adding items is not required

>And WHO made the STUDY to really tell if it's required or not???

Is a study really necessary? You seem to ignore certain points when you feel your position is being countered.
One point you completely blew by was, as stated in the post to which you wrote this reply, if the app isn't broken, the user wouldn't need to add menu items. In other words, if the app being installed includes a properly formated "app.desktop" file, as per FreeDesktop standards, the app would appear in the correct place in the menu. The user could then use GNOME's included menu editor to remove it if he/she so desired.
If, on the other hand, the app is broken(read:no "app.desktop" file), there are other ways to handle it aside from menu editing at the user level. Such as adding a launcher on the panel or desktop or actually writing the app.desktop file and dropping it in to the correct directory(generally /usr/share/applications).
IMO, handling menu editing at the user level is wrong. It should be handled at the system level with an option for the user remove items from their menus if they see fit. As it stands now, that's what we have. Provided, of course, that the app developers follow the standards laid out by FreeDesktop.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Menu editor...
by on Fri 9th Sep 2005 01:08 in reply to "RE[4]: Menu editor..."
Member since:

IMO, handling menu editing at the user level is wrong. It should be handled at the system level with an option for the user remove items from their menus if they see fit.

Why in the world do you care if I can or can not add items to the menu? How does it hurt you for me to have that ability? It doesn't. So why are you arguing against it? If you don't think you should be allowed to easily (without editing text files) add apps to the menu, fine, don't do it. But why would you argue against others being able to?

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[5]: Menu editor...
by lpetrazickis on Sat 10th Sep 2005 00:41 in reply to "RE[4]: Menu editor..."
lpetrazickis Member since:
2005-07-06

IANAGU, but what if the user removes a menu item by mistake? Is there any way to undo that?

Reply Parent Score: 1